charmingbrides; siberianbrides mordinson.com are good or scam????

[Ben Armen]

Thank you Shadow, that is correct.

[Jack]

Now wait just a second here, now Ben Armen is saying he met ONE woman through me!

What about the women (women, as in more than one) that he "says" he found with my agency that are pro-daters?

I found that the women that are with Jack are pro-daters,

He met one woman that he "says" I introduced him to, but he found several women that are with my agency that he says have local boyfriends!

I found several that actually have native bf's.

He says he used my agencies services, met ladies (or lady depending on which version you want to believe) from my agency on his first trip, but he writes that his first agency experience was on his third trip with 5 Star in Dnipropetrovsk. How can that be?

My first agency experience was with 5 Star in Dnipro, Ben Armen 

By what Ben Armen wrote above to Shadow, Ben Armen is saying he met, or talked to me, on his first trip to Ukraine. He also says he either met or talked to me on his second trip to Ukraine when he writes,

If you research the agencies he recommends they are questionable... some good some bad, but not two thumbs up.  I brought it to his attention and it was heard on deaf ears.

How could a man making his first trip to Ukraine, meeting one woman on his own, ONE woman that he "says" I introduced him to (who he still cannot or will not identify as a pro-dater, wonder why) and having no other contact with agencies or women, know of these bad agencies I recommend AND be able to tell me of these bad agencies on his second trip to Ukraine?    How could he be able to tell me, upon deaf ears as he as said, of these other bad agencies on his second trip when he had never used  ANY  Ukraine agency until his third trip?   


Many things this Ben Armen has written about me just are not adding up. I have several other incidences that Ben Armen has written I find very questionable and would like to discuss/expose but as this thread is now becoming more about the Ben Armen Trifecta, and nothing to do with the original topic, I will create a new post in the next day or two in the Anything Goes link.

[Turboguy]

Hi Turboguy,

I was referring to the socials conducted by agencies such as AFA in my original post.  Yes, Jack has a different format.  When I asked for his help last September, we discussed an option of me joining his group going to Kharkov.  I picked out around 12 or 13 ladies from agencies to meet in Kharkov.  Unfortunately ( ), I decided to stay in Kiev.  Jack did everything I asked of him pertaining to my stay in Kiev.  If I decide to make another trip I am thinking about going on a one or two city romp with Jack to see if I have better luck.

Peace,
JUGGERNAUT

I hope you get a chance to do it Juggernaut.  I think you will have a great time and meet some very good women.   I would suggest trying to do 3 or 4 cities.  Sometimes one city might be a bust for you and great for someone else and the next city might be the reverse.  I can agree the tours like AFA has are a waste.  There you really will find pro daters.  I am sure a few slip into parties like Jack has but they are few and far between. 

Ben,  meeting the right woman is a crap shoot.  You can make a dozen or more trips and come up dry or make one to meet one woman and hit the jackpot.   You can go to Russia on business with no idea of meeting a woman and find the woman of your dreams sitting next to you on the plane or in a market. 

I went on one of Jack's trips.   I still am friends with a number of guys that were with me on the trip.  I did not encounter anyone who was not happy with the service.  I have heard a lot of comments from other guys here who went on other trips and were generally happy.   No mater how good your service or how hard you try to help people there will occasionally be an unhappy customer.

You made me laugh a bit with the comment about the 300 pound used car salesman.  Yes, Jack is a big guy and yes he is definitely an Alpha male.   I have never seen anyone work harder to make sure things went right for his guys and I have seen him go way out of his way to help someone with little to gain except the knowledge he helped someone.   He is a good guy to have in your corner. 

You seem to be making your judgement on ONE woman.  I have no doubts a bad apple can slip into the barrel easy enough.   I did not meet any women on my trip that had any motives other than to find a good man.  To be honest, my son was along with me on the trip and he did meet one woman who perhaps had other motives.  However it was one he contacted on his own through a site Jack suggested and not one of the ones from the agencies Jack works with.   

You talk about scam agencies and mention the Cindy agency.  I worked with them a lot in two of the cities we went to and was quite pleased with them.  A lot of other guys on RWD speak highly of them. 

You talk about it being a waste to spend $ 400 for a party to sit and talk to one gal you might not be interested in.   That is not what the parties are for.   You should be meeting lots and lots of women and have a chance of finding one that is right for you.   If you go there and talk to one you are not doing it right and I am sure Jack would be very upset with you for doing that.  I met at least one outstanding candidate at the parties and a lot of other nice women.  I do think more time with fewer women could be an improvement but still the parties can be a good tool but they are only part of the way Jack's trips work. 

Do I think Jack's parties are right for everyone.  No.  I do think for someone new to the process the education is worth the price of admission. 

I met several really good candidates on my trip with Jack.  In my case I made a trip to Russia two weeks after returning and met the woman who became my wife and who turned out to be the perfect woman for me.  If that trip had not worked out I would have been back following up some of the women I met with Jack and there were some very nice ones. 

Jack provides a good service that really helps a lot of people.  He works harder at helping his guys than anyone I have ever seen and I think judging him on one bad woman is being a little overly critical.  I have to agree that I would give your statements more credibility if you were more specific about the problems you saw.

[Ben Armen]

Jack Jack Jack,

I think everybody was ready to move on... but if you must continue, I will answer your questions.

Now wait just a second here, now Ben Armen is saying he met ONE woman through me!

What about the women (women, as in more than one) that he "says" he found with my agency that are pro-daters?






He met one woman that he "says" I introduced him to, but he found several women that are with my agency that he says have local boyfriends!

I feel like I am at a deposition.  Let me describe my trips your honor,  I met a nice lady after over a year of email, and she decided there would be no second meeting... devastating.  I took Jack's offer for a back up plan, referred me to some agencies.  I met two ladies I was interested "Olga" and "Ludmilla"  at first I chose Olga, we went out for a nice dinner and went to a club.  After a little dancing, we decided to call it a night, she said she was tired and needed to go bed.  She walked me to my flat and told me not to go out, because the police would harass me and it would be best to stay home.  Something just didn't seem right, I followed her...back to the club instead of going home.  Crushed would not be a strong enough word.  It was horrible, I cried myself to sleep that night.

I then went back to Ludmilla I told her the day before That I wanted to see Olga and she was sad.  Luda was very happy to see me and we enjoyed the rest of my stay with her.  Very shortly thereafter I went back to see Luda again.  I went for one reason and one reason only, to see her, my backup plan was to change my flight.  I knew something was wrong as soon as she met me at the airport, it was business, how much stuff can she get out of me, that was this trip was about.  During this visit, Luda told me her friend Olga was going on holiday with her b/f to Egypt, registered girl with a b/f.  That evening I ran into Olga, all dolled up ready to walk into the agency, certainly ready for a meeting.  I brought this up to Luda, she said she was just checking her email at the office...BS!!!  Not when she lives across town, at the time there were about 4 guys in the office, she had a meeting, definitely. 

Instance #2 I will leave to the judgement of the readers.  "Irina" was a girl that I met outside of Jack but know that Jack referred to her as a "good girl".  I took her out and was a former model and absolutely stunning.  The chemistry was there, but the red flags was out.  I felt I was being time slotted, when I wanted all in.  Long story short, the money stories were coming out and I decided to end the relationship.  Next trip while going for a walk with my date, about 5 feet ahead was Irina, a UM and her son.  I tried tying my shoes, window shopping anything possible to increase the distance, my date wanted to walk.  The weird part was as we were in the square, I wondered off to increase distance, but her young son was wondering away from mom and was all around me!  It was eerie.

He says he used my agencies services, met ladies (or lady depending on which version you want to believe) from my agency on his first trip, but he writes that his first agency experience was on his third trip with 5 Star in Dnipropetrovsk. How can that be?

5 Stars was not my first agency.

By what Ben Armen wrote above to Shadow, Ben Armen is saying he met, or talked to me, on his first trip to Ukraine. He also says he either met or talked to me on his second trip to Ukraine when he writes,



How could a man making his first trip to Ukraine, meeting one woman on his own, ONE woman that he "says" I introduced him to (who he still cannot or will not identify as a pro-dater, wonder why) and having no other contact with agencies or women, know of these bad agencies I recommend AND be able to tell me of these bad agencies on his second trip to Ukraine?    How could he be able to tell me, upon deaf ears as he as said, of these other bad agencies on his second trip when he had never used  ANY  Ukraine agency until his third trip?

   

See above,  I hope I clarified my story.

Many things this Ben Armen has written about me just are not adding up. I have several other incidences that Ben Armen has written I find very questionable and would like to discuss/expose but as this thread is now becoming more about the Ben Armen Trifecta, and nothing to do with the original topic, I will create a new post in the next day or two in the Anything Goes link.

Jack, you are a business man.  If you feel you need to create whole thread for little ole me, do so.  You certainly have a lot of friends and satisfied customers on this site.  I read Turbo's trip report and it was a great trip.  You treated him very well.  Again, I wish I could have been a satisfied customer.  I have learned a lot about agencies in my now six trips.  It is a dirty business.  I am amazed about how few Agencies are wanting to take a pledge of decency.  They just won't.  They will leave profiles of married and committed women up on sites and have managers write the letters to collect income.   They will do whatever it takes to generate meetings letters etc.  You have way more experience than me and have seen probably more dirt than I ever had.  What you do with that information is the question.  To throw you an Olive Branch Jack, it is a numbers game for you too, If you invite 50 girls to a party, you know there will be PD's there.  I will not blame you for that.  I will blame you when a specific situation comes up and it falls on deaf ears, over and over again.  That is why you are great for a beer and and word of wisdom, but cannot recommend you professionally.

Sorry Jack,

Ben 

[Jack]

  Jack Jack Jack,  I think everybody was ready to move on...

Ben Armen, Ben Armen, Ben Armen, nobody else was accused of having an agency of pro-daters.

Plus, from some private emails I have received, several guys are enjoying reading of our dialogue. Theirs a shared opinion that one of us is not being honest.

I found that the women that are with Jack are pro-daters, I found several that actually have native bf's.

As I stated yesterday I would like to begin a new thread, and will, just have little time right now.  It is my intention to find out who all these pro-daters are who you "say" you found in my agency, as well the several women who you "say" you found who have serious relationships with local boyfriends.



Ben Armen, as a good trial lawyer would say, "Are you lying to us now",

  5 Stars was not my first agency. 

or were you lying to us then?

My first agency experience was with 5 Star in Dnipro, bottom line, they live up to their name, no better agency in Ukraine.  Ben Armen 

Before it was one woman you met on your first trip. And then when you were confronted by Scott as to when did you have time to make a tour, when did you have time to date the women who are pro-daters, when did you have time to find the women with local boyfriends, you had to come up with some time frame.  You pretty well cooked your goose for a timeline with what you had posted to us with regards to trips 3, 4 and 5, so now during trip 1 and 2, during your WOVO, this was the best time frame as to when you had experience with one of our tours, met all these pro-daters that you found, but oppps, now you indicate you had no previous experience with one of our tours, even with all the advice you have offered about tours, and instead I helped you to meet ONE woman on your first trip after the lady you had been writing for over a year saw you for what you are and dumped you.


But now, a new twist as emerged. It's no longer one woman as you had previously wrote, now it's THREE women.  Your replies get more entertaining.  Again (are you watching this William3rd), were you lying to us then,

  I did go into Ukraine for the first time with one woman in mind, unfortunately it did not work out and to make a long story short, through the help of Jack I met another lady.  It was a little of an up and down relationship but in the end I decided to make a second trip to see her again.

Trips 1 and 2 were WOVO and came away empty.  Ben Armen

or are you lying to us now?

  I met a nice lady after over a year of email, and she decided there would be no second meeting... devastating.  I took Jack's offer for a back up plan, referred me to some agencies.  I met two ladies I was interested "Olga" and "Ludmilla" 

What! What happened to the WOVO, now it's visited three!   How many will it be tomorrow?


Ben Armen, as indicated I would like to make a new thread, and yes, you are deserving of your very own new thread. I just have little time today and now, since I lost a little time responding to your newest revelations, am probably behind with what I need to do tomorrow. Hopefully I can address several of your inconsistencies in the next few days.

[Jooky]

A la carte...

I love it. What is a romance tour social? The all-you-can-eat buffet?  :evil:

Ben went on what we call a WOVO and met three ladies. So what? This usually means Write Many, Select One, Crash And Burn With One, Scramble For Backup Plan. WMSOCABWOSFBP isn't as catchy as WOVO. After the first trip he thought he had met an alright girl, but in the end he really did come up empty on two trips.

Still, I don't see the big deal. Ben, you went on one date with a stranger Olga, she gave you the 'I'm sleepy, let you down easy' routine. Nothing to cry about. Later she was still on the agency but some local boyfriend is (maybe) taking her on a trip to Egypt. I wouldn't be surprised if the local boyfriend was married or had other girlfriends as well. That's often life in Russia. A girl has a non committed boyfriend so she's on an agency looking for a better deal.

You saw another agency girl and her kid walking down the street with a Ukrainian guy. Again, so what? These girls are joining an agency, not a nunnery. It makes sense for them to date back home. If Prince Keyboard Romeo actually shows up he could be lining up dates every day. So why shouldn't these girls be dating back home? It doesn't make them 'pro-daters'.

I think guys expect too much from an agency, and agencies (like a carnival show) promise what can't be delivered because it's what the customers want to hear. Look at is as an introduction only. If you are introduced to a real girl that has a potential interest, the deal is legit. Maybe the girl won't be a good wife to you but she will be to someone else. Maybe she won't be a good wife to anyone. Maybe she likes to party all night, but not with you. Maybe she is interested in other guys, picking and choosing as we do. These things are beyond an agency's control.

[groovlstk]

I met two ladies I was interested "Olga" and "Ludmilla"  at first I chose Olga, we went out for a nice dinner and went to a club.  After a little dancing, we decided to call it a night, she said she was tired and needed to go bed.  She walked me to my flat and told me not to go out, because the police would harass me and it would be best to stay home.  Something just didn't seem right, I followed her...back to the club instead of going home.  Crushed would not be a strong enough word.  It was horrible, I cried myself to sleep that night.

You cried yourself to sleep after a woman you spent a few hours with mislead you? Ben, I'm sorry but that's unbelievably pathetic... it's been said before, FSU dating is not entry-level dating.