My girl has arrived

[Misha]

So far, she has done zero to clean the place (unlike me who always cleans up) although she's not letting me down in other domestic areas.  Help on how to more gently broach the subject or just wait till she's does ask??

My wife and I usually have one day that we do the big tasks of cleaning (vacuuming, washing toilets, mopping floors etc...). We do it together. If she sees that I am doing housework, she will join me, and if she is doing housework and I am home, I will be told to help.

[vwrw]

No two people are the same when it comes to cleanliness. Be a little flexible but if you two are too far apart in this area, then don't clean so much on your end and see if she picks up the slack. If you find she doesn't, then have a talk with her about being a team player and the roles you two will play in the relationship.

BillyB, I like your suggestion.
If Turbo and I had different perspectives on who of us should do all the cleaning, cooking and other tedious  household chores  at the present time, I think a conversation on the subject that  two people in a relationship are a team, partnership where each person contributes money, property, labor or skill, and a subservient allusion that so as right now I am capable to contribute nada, but labor at house could make a persuasive and sensible reason why it should me doing all the domestic duties. 

[KenC]

BillyB, I like your suggestion.
If Turbo and I had different perspectives on who of us should do all the cleaning, cooking and other tedious  household chores  at the present time, I think a conversation on the subject that  two people in a relationship are a team, partnership where each person contributes money, property, labor or skill, and a subservient allusion that so as right now I am capable to contribute nada, but labor at house could make a persuasive and sensible reason why it should me doing all the domestic duties. 

WOW, VWRW, I am truly impressed with your thinking here.
KenC

[Blues Fairy]

The cleaning bug only bites me when I get a feeling the place is truly MINE and I'm staying for a long, long time.  Perhaps your girl still feels like a guest in your house and it might take her a while to treat it as her own.

[steviej]

Tonight I made the mistake of offering to show her how to clean things.  She said she will ask me if she wants to know how to do anything from now on, not to show her.  And she went on and on about how she won't be my dream slave girl.  Strange, this was the same girl who said she will care for me and my house while I work all day.  So far, she has done zero to clean the place (unlike me who always cleans up) although she's not letting me down in other domestic areas.  Help on how to more gently broach the subject or just wait till she's does ask??

I've said it before in other threads (I think) but there's so many things that people should talk about before they get married, rather than after. What a man/woman wants in a wife/husband is different than what they expect of a girlfriend/boyfriend. Before I got seriously involved with anyone, I had a serious talk with myself. Steve - what do you really want in a wife ... and not just romantically, in every dimension. One of the things was, I want my wife to be primarily resposible for the domestice chores. I don't like it , and I don't want to "share" it. That's just me. But so what? Well, early in the relationship I explained what was important to me, including all that stuff. If a woman was put off by that, then there would've been marriage problems that you wouldn't see in your courtship phase. And by the way, domestic chores is a BIG source of contention in relationsihps. And even the guys that agree it should be "shared" don't like it insdie, for the most part, but they make themselves willing to live with it.

Now, honestly, "showing" her how to clean .. hmm ... that does seem like asking for trouble with a RW. But remember, many times the emtional reactions from a RW are due to insecurity and fear. It's different pattern than AW, and we tend to misread it. Reassurance is always good with a RW. You guys aren't married either, as I understand it, so that's a different emotional environment as well. IN her mind, she is disposable to you. You're not going to get everything from her in that situation, believe me. If it was me, I'd forget about the house, daily living, and all that crap, I'd put my arm aorund her, and I'd say, "Baby, I am SO happy you are here. I love you. Let's do something fun Saturday when I've got some time. " I wouldn't clean the house myself either, but that's me .. LOL

P.S. Since you guys aren't married, you might want to thnk about that: you can talk about these things now, or forever hold your peace. Are you doing to be happy doing half the housework? What if she's messy and it bothers you and you end up doing more than half because you need it clean, adn this is ongoing, and you are irriated every day? I'd say, think about what's going to make you happy, what you need, and tell her before you get married. I mean somehting like, "Honey, I love you completely, I want us to be married. But you have to understand, I have always wanted a wife who takes responsibility for keeping our home clean and cosy. that's just the way I am, that's waht I need. So you have to understand that if we get married, I want that commitment from you. If you feel its important to you that the man do a lot of housework, well that's just not me. I don't want to spend my life being upset about it, or dissatisfied about it."  It's hard to say that stuff, but hey, you've got a lot fo years ahead of you. I had this talk with my now-wife very early. And she was always comnpletely cool with it. In her mind, it's natural and how she expects to live. She doesn't want to see me washing dishes or doing laundry, and I don't want to do it. But that part of our harmony was talked through way in advance. And we're happy as clams. So domestic harmony is very important, and you've got to look deep inside and get in touch with waht you really need, and what you really want, and get ti worked out before you get married IMHO.

[Kuna]

DKMM,

Congrats on O's arrival...  sorry I'm a little late to the party.   

All good advice above...  let things evolve - there's no need to nail every last aspect at the moment... just enjoy the times.

You may feel motivated to clean/contribute/"almost be the host" in your home soon after she arrives but take it from me...  your girl don't want that initially.  At a point sometime in the near future expect her to start sorting through all of you stuff and rearranging things to the way she likes it...  That's (female) human nature.

All in good time she will make your (singular) home your (collective) home.  On cleaning...  she'll have a level she is happy with.. you'll have a level you're happy with... hopefully that'll be closely related.

Mate,  you've got so many cool experiences coming up.  My only suggeston is to be more of an observer than instructor.  If you can gain pleasure from watching her evolve and integrate both you and she will feel more comfortable (and less pressured).

All the best...  you deserve it!

Kuna

[Gator]

DKMM,

I would not worry so much about the cleaning, but more about how the two of you resolve the conflict. 

Do you communicate with each other (i. e., both of you listen and respect the other's feelings)? 

Is communication productive? 

Do the two of you seek a win-win solution?

Once a decision is made, you both move on and do not re-visit the conflict?

[KenC]

There are some areas in your new relationship that just have to be experienced and no amount of prior discussion will help (much).  How a couple blends to resolve household duties is one of these areas.  Probably the best indicator of the future is how your future wife's home was maintained prior to her arriving here.  But even that is not a perfect indication, especially if your woman was living in her parents home.  A lot is posted here regarding the woman adapting to her new country, language and culture as it should be.  But there are also more universal adjustments that are required regardless of the home country of the woman and man.

The difficult task of adjusting from being single to being one half of a couple needs to be addressed.  How the two people will delegate responsibilities is a task that needs to be accomplished in real time while in the real environment.  Many of the women we speak of here are young women that never lived outside of their Momma's home.  They just never faced having the total responsibility of running a household of their own.  This alone is a huge adjustment and no matter how mature the young woman is, if she never ran her own household, it is a huge adjustment for her.

I look back at the volital early days of my first marriage (to an AW).  We were both young (21 & 19) and the initial adjustments were quite difficult.  I remember that she actually cried tears on our wedding night because she had a future to scrub floors in our house!  :hairraising: And this came from a young woman that had no language, culture or country issues to deal with.  BTW, she did eventually become an immaculate housekeeper.

There are all sorts of expectations that the new couple must deal with too.  Again, no matter how much you discuss things, it is what it is and you will not begin to truly comprehend how this will be resolved until you begin your actual life together.  It all just takes time.
KenC

[DKMM]

Thanks for all the suggestions!  I didin't even have time to get back on this board because I'm so busy.  She misses me when I'm at work so as soon as I get home we spend 100% of our time together.

Basically we let it go and today I noticed she picked up the place a bit.  She's doing an amazing job really especially in the kitchen and I can tell she wants me to be happy with her.  I think this is the best way to go not having a wedding hanging over our heads.  I notice the more I try to coddle her and kiss her ass, she does the same for me (which is so unlike my past experiences with women).  This girl responds not to the "strong" man but rather wants me to be nice to her and she's doubly sweet in return. 

I can't say I have much to complain about except for the usual communication problems.  Its so hard when it seems like she is yelling at me about something for some reason I can't even fathom then she is kissing me the next minute.  Her way of talking sounds confrontational and it rubs me raw sometimes so I point it out when its too much(she sounds the same in Russian).  Its like I have a quota each day of things I can tell her to do differently before she reverts to doing things how she wants.  I know that she is still insecure here and has a lot to overcome but I think we just might make it.

O says she is finally starting to feel like its home and I feel lucky because its only been 2 weeks.  The driving lessons are not so bad if it was not for the stick shift.  She insists on learning on it but I will get her an automatic absolutely.  You cannot teach a RW on stick without a commanding use of common language.

 

[ScottinCrimea]

 wife and I have different priorities as far as cleaning.  she is fanatical about the floor, going on her hands and knees to be sure it is spotless.  I couldn't care less.  My thing is the counters.  I don't like when they are cluttered and unclean.  This is no big deal for her.  So I take care of cleaning the counters and she does the floors.  You just need to learn what the cleaning priorities are for each other and accomodate accordingly.

[steviej]

Thanks for all the suggestions!  I didin't even have time to get back on this board because I'm so busy.  She misses me when I'm at work so as soon as I get home we spend 100% of our time together.

Basically we let it go and today I noticed she picked up the place a bit.  She's doing an amazing job really especially in the kitchen and I can tell she wants me to be happy with her.  I think this is the best way to go not having a wedding hanging over our heads.  I notice the more I try to coddle her and kiss her ass, she does the same for me (which is so unlike my past experiences with women).  This girl responds not to the "strong" man but rather wants me to be nice to her and she's doubly sweet in return. 

I can't say I have much to complain about except for the usual communication problems.  Its so hard when it seems like she is yelling at me about something for some reason I can't even fathom then she is kissing me the next minute.  Her way of talking sounds confrontational and it rubs me raw sometimes so I point it out when its too much(she sounds the same in Russian).  Its like I have a quota each day of things I can tell her to do differently before she reverts to doing things how she wants.  I know that she is still insecure here and has a lot to overcome but I think we just might make it.

O says she is finally starting to feel like its home and I feel lucky because its only been 2 weeks.  The driving lessons are not so bad if it was not for the stick shift.  She insists on learning on it but I will get her an automatic absolutely.  You cannot teach a RW on stick without a commanding use of common language.

 

Your girl is absorbing and adjusting to so much right now it is amazing. Yes, affection, reasurance, that's great .. she needs to feel your constancy, if you catch my drift.

[Brianinaz]

"The man assumes the "teacher" role as the RW takes the "student" role which temporarily puts the man in a position of power.  A strong woman resents this dominance no matter how kind the methods used by the "teacher."  The tricky part comes when the "student" becomes knowledgable in certain areas and still needs to learn others.  Sometimes it is difficult to dial back the teaching mode.  When you reach this point expect more than a few very indignant "I know that!"  Accompanied with a look that is sure to make you feel like an idiot.  It becomes a slippery slope juggling the roles of teacher, friend, lover and relationship equal.

Good luck.
KenC"

Gotta love the words of experience...My yet to arrive new wife runs the legal division of a good size company. This sort of stuff is invaluable

[KenC]

Brian,
Anything to help!  It is why  am here.  I am sure you will have a lot to say once your lady arrives.  Best of luck.
KenC

[Fashionista]

Our approach to cleaning and such may seem unconventional to some, but here it is and it works.  Whoever feels the urgent need to clean (cook and so on), does it him/herself.  That way there are no broken expectations and hence no fights over silly subjects.  We only fight over serious matters like, for example, whether aliens ever visited Earth.   Now, those arguments can get really heated. 

[DKMM]

Yes the words of KenC are pretty much dead on.  O resents me teaching her how to do everything and sometimes she will rebel.  Driving lessons are frustrating me, although they got better after I got an automatic car (above her objections).

Things are going mostly good for us.  She has school downtown by my work that takes up enough of her day that she rides into and out of town with me.  This makes her feel the real life here and not some sugar coated version.

My one complaint is she's slow to do everything.  Getting ready for school, shopping for a few things, anything and everything.  We can't go to Target without spending 45 minutes minimum even if we just went to get 2 things.  I hope that goes away with time.

I'm still a lucky bastard and have to pinch myself daily.  The highs are higher than the lows. :kissing:

[KenC]

DKMM,
Getting used to "RW time" will take you a while.

This is where you have to use your head.  Appointments are always 30 mins earlier than they really are for example.  Take her to Target, but excuse yourself to go to Sports Authority and meet her back at the car.  Take reading material and get used to waiting.  Dropping her off at a mall just before kick off time also insures that you can watch the whole game without interruption! 

I know you are working on the driving, but the sooner she becomes independently mobile, your life will improve tremendously!  BTW let that decision regarding an automatic vs. stick shift be a lesson for you.  Listen and respect your lady's opinion and input, but in the end, do what you know to be best.  RW simply have not been exposed to the same things you have and just because they have an opinion, doesn't make it an informed opinion.

Sounds like everything is going well.
KenC

[vwrw]

She has school downtown by my work that takes up enough of her day that she rides into and out of town with me.  This makes her feel the real life here and not some sugar coated version.

Does she like her school here? 

[BC]

My one complaint is she's slow to do everything.  Getting ready for school, shopping for a few things, anything and everything.  We can't go to Target without spending 45 minutes minimum even if we just went to get 2 things.  I hope that goes away with time.

In my experience, coming up rapidly on 6 years, it doesn't.

pipe dreams..

[KenC]

In my experience, coming up rapidly on 6 years, it doesn't.

pipe dreams..

BC,
Your post reminded me of my early tactics with Lena's shopping.  I would always take her to the store 1/2 an hour before they closed.
 
KenC

[BC]

BC,
Your post reminded me of my early tactics with Lena's shopping.  I would always take her to the store 1/2 an hour before they closed.
 
KenC

Yeah.. did that a few times myself..

I even threatened to drop her off at the mall with a sleeping bag and pick her up when she couldn't stand it anymore.. but alas.. they built a second mall.. now starting a third.. at that rate I would never see her again..

[DKMM]

Yeah she likes her school here.  Its an ELP program with an emphasis on passing the TOEFL.  It takes six hours a day, five days a week.  At first she thought that was too much time but now it seems better to fill her time this way (and she's rapidly improving her English).  It also helps she met a RW friend at school.  Her favorite outside the house life consists of shopping, school and visiting my parents.

Duly noted on the waiting stuff.  Small price to pay compared to the great things.  Did I mention she's also stubborn and extremely strong willed? Good thing I was already expecting that thanks to RWD. 

[DKMM]

I thought I would update you all on things over here.

In general things are fine, but I worry she seems to be getting depressed.  I know she is trying to make it work but I can tell she's getting a bit moody more and more and seems to be very low on energy. 

We are officially engaged now and trying to figure out a wedding this winter but its hard when I feel like I'm the only one pushing things along while she whines and complains about everything and nothing.  I almost feel like she is just negative about everyting.

I think I recall reading that this would come, but I don't know what to do.  I try to get her to tell me what's wrong but she just says nothing just tired.  I try to give her attention but I can't just be her puppy all day, I need to live too.  Lately she told me she doesn't want to work here and would like to pretty much be a housewife even before we have kids.

That said, she's still a wonderful girl and I can tell she loves me deeply so I'm happy (i just wish she was happy too).  If anybody has any words of experience I'd be happy to hear it.   

[Misha]

I thought I would update you all on things over here.

In general things are fine, but I worry she seems to be getting depressed.  I know she is trying to make it work but I can tell she's getting a bit moody more and more and seems to be very low on energy. 

We are officially engaged now and trying to figure out a wedding this winter but its hard when I feel like I'm the only one pushing things along while she whines and complains about everything and nothing. 

The culture shock sets in....

Here is a good site that provides a good review of the stages of culture shock: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2848359.

My advice: get used to it. It may last weeks or months. From my experience, it can take up to a year for the culture shock to subside completely.

[kievstar]

DKKM.

I went through K-1 process but cancelled it after her interview.  Reason she was behaving like what your girl is doing now 1 month before coming to USA and I did not want to deal with it once she got to USA as I knew it would be an issue.  I was living in Kiev in Ukraine with her before our move to USA.  She really loved her country and she had friends who married men from Western Europe which failed.  So the closer to her day in USA she became more worried.  What I know now I would have handled differently. 

My advise is spend a lot of time with her and get her doing things and meeting friends.  Do not push work on her.  She will be doing a job not as important for the most part until she learns the language better.  Working may make things worse.  Love alone does not make a marriage work. Sounds like your girl is difficult and your going to have to decide if this is the type of girl you want.  She is going to need a patient man who is not sensitive to her outbursts.  She sounds a lot like the girl I used to date.  I loved her but she was to much work for me.  She may never change and you will have to decide what type of life you want.

[Jazzyclassy]

i think that there is a lot of truth in what Kievstar said here, so it is worth thinking about