An Advantage of the UK being in the EU !

[msmoby_ru]

I've been "quiet" recently.....

Firstly, Veta and I have been reunited - after 3 months apart - and now her son lives with us in Cyprus.

Secondly, we've been battling the Cypriot immigration authorities to grant Veta and her her the correct status - viz being dependents of an EU national they should be allowed Visa fre travel  to Cyprus and to be able to work...

I returned from the UK with a letter from the Cypriot Ministry of Interior stating my appeal to the European Commission had been successful - Cyprus must give the correct status and monies blocked in my account for possible repatriation returned... so you can imagine our shock when the guy in the immigration office told us " this was written by a junior" who knows nothing - you can't have this status - but we will grant you wife the right to work - with a work permit .. and  you step-son the right to remain - if you show a return ticket to Russia ... a bit "rich" as Cyprus was going to be his home !!

So, we politely refused the Immigration Officers "kind offer" and listened to his lecture aabout us not knowing Cyprus laws ....   In Europe, if a countries local laws are at odds with an EU Directive - a State must comply / change its laws...  clearly someone forgot to tell him and his bosses.

Cyprus is a popular place for Russians to pay EU nationals to marry - hoping for an EU visa .. and we seem to have been caught up in this net .. but this old law predates the EU Directive - allowing fredom of movement in the EU

This confirmed our decision that it is time to go "home" to the wind and the rain.. So we popped into the British High Commission - explained that Cyprus was refusing to give us the correct status despite the EU ruling, and in TWO HOURS - no interview - my family were awarded UK residency - GRATIS - normally costs over $2000.

How? I hear my fellow British members .... simple.. if an Irishman, Dutchman ( any EU passport holder) wants to come to the UK to work / live, he can bring his / her non EU dependent family members....by applying for an EEA VISA ( applies to Swiss and Norweigians, too )  If you are an EU citizen - including a Brit - who has exercised his right to move freely within Europe, the UK allows a UK citixen to take the EEA visa route.

You sinply have to show you have lived / worked in another EU state.

Our thanks to members here, and elsewhere, who have helped with this "adventure"

Mark and Veta

[Ade]

Mark,

good news for you then - except for the rain that is.

So let me see if I'm understanding this correctly; if I (a UK citizen resident in Norway) marry my Russian girlfriend, she will be to live and work in the UK if I get an EEA visa and list her as my dependant?

[Shadow]

SeriouslyJaded, that is correct.
The BRAX judgement is the origin of this possibility.
Any EU citizen that wishes to live in another EU country can not be refused visa for his/her dependents to accompany him/her.
The wedding certificate and passport is all that is needed for his spouse, and children that are minors and there for dependent are equally eligible for a visa.

In fact it goes even further to the point where a parent of a EU citizen has similar rights. Based on a judgement called Baby Chen (no link available at this time).

There is one critical fact here. If the laws of citizenship of the EU member have different/additional criteria, they are valid in their own country. However when living in another country the EU laws prevail.
A Cyprus citizen could in Cyprus not claim the EU citizenship laws, but a UK citizen can.

There is one exception for being able to claim EU citizenship rights over national citizenship rights though. If you are owner of a company that does business with other EU states, you can request to be treated as EU citizen in your own country.
This is based on the Carpenter judgement

Needless to say that most EU countries are not exactly happy with these laws, and immigration officers often claim not to have knowledge of it.

[Ade]

Thank you

For me this was one of the most useful threads I've yet seen here and it will be bookmarked for future reference.

[msmoby_ru]

Mark,

good news for you then - except for the rain that is.

So let me see if I'm understanding this correctly; if I (a UK citizen resident in Norway) marry my Russian girlfriend, she will be to live and work in the UK if I get an EEA visa and list her as my dependant?

Hi "SJ" you've more or less got it...

As Shadow alludes, there can be probs of interpretation of the "exceptions" for local laws ...

Veta and I married in Cyprus when *I* was UK resident and she was a Russian resident" .. Cyprus has argued that she CAN'T have a EU Residency permit  - and I wrote a complaint to the the EU Commission - that has rolled on and on .. even to the farcical point were we have the CY Ministry of Interior arguing ... We have a letter from them saying YES will will finally give your wife this residency - as an EU dependent - and turned up at immigration with the letter  - only to be told "go away" .... I hear "Katching, katching" noises in my ears

My tip

1/ do NOT marry in the third party state you intend to reside in outside the UK - this gets around the local exclusion

2/ You have to show the UK a durable relationship outside the UK... you don't have to be married - but it helps, of course !


Here's the info relating to a UK Citizen:


http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/nationalityinstructions/nisec2gensec/eeaandswissnats?view=Binary

here's the important bit ....

7. Family members of United Kingdom nationals
7.1 British citizens within the UK are not normally exercising their rights under the EC Treaty and so cannot demand the advantages of Community law for their non-British family members (Morson and Jhanjan v The Netherlands [1983] 2 CMLR 221). Such family members who wish to enter or remain in the United Kingdom will usually need to obtain leave in accordance with the Immigration Rules.
However, where a British citizen is or has been exercising free movement rights as a worker or self-employed person in another EEA country (and, where the family member concerned is a spouse or civil partner, s/he is or was living with the British citizen in the other EEA country), he or she will acquire the right under EC law to be accompanied back to the UK by his or her family members The family member of a British citizen in these circumstances will have the same right to enter and remain as would have been the case if the British citizen had instead been a national of some other EEA State.

I was posting - asking everywhere -  and hit "pay dirt" here :

http://www.realrussia.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1739&posts=24&start=1

I our case, we will take our chances that NOT going the normal UK route  - applying for Right to remain - could affect "citizenship" - a UK passport is an advantage., of course - but we can't see how an EEA permit could preclude applying for citizenship in the same way....   The EEA permit SHOULD allow easier travel within the EU, anyway - but we'll still try and go to France ASAP to get a Schenghen under our belts.. THIS with the CY ID card we SHOULD get will aid travel within the EU.


Hope this, with Shadow's contributions helps in your case

[BC]

Had no problems with this here in IT.  Based on my EU citizenship in another country they promptly issued my wife permanent residency status which allows unrestricted travel throughout EU land.  We have even been through Switzerland a few times driving and no one blinked an eye.. well they just waved us through without even asking.

[msmoby_ru]

Had no problems with this here in IT.  Based on my EU citizenship in another country they promptly issued my wife permanent residency status which allows unrestricted travel throughout EU land.  We have even been through Switzerland a few times driving and no one blinked an eye.. well they just waved us through without even asking.

Ah, if only the UK would join Scheghen ...

[Shadow]

Ah, if only the UK would join Scheghen ...

Then all the guys who originated from India and Pakistan would cross the channel 
However I would travel a bit more to your island...was always good to get some potato crisps.