Third meeting

[diverboy70]

Tonight Im off too Helsinki for the weekend. This will be our third meeting and it will also be the shortest meeting, just over the weekend!

I will take the ferry to Helsinki tonight and will be there tomorrow morning. J. will take the train from St: Petersburg tomorrow morning and will be there a few hours later than me.

I booked a nice hotel and also a table at a nice restaurant. So we will hopefully have a nice romantic weekend 

Even if it will be a short meeting I am glad that we have this opportunity to meet, since we live fairly close to eachother. She allready has her Finnish visa, so it is a minimum of hassle to meet half way!

If this trip works out well, we will probably try to meet one weekend a month 

Hopefully she will get a weeks vacation in October and then she will come here to visit me!

Ok, thats it from a very "Happy puppy" 

[Muj]

Bon Voyage 

[steviej]

Boy what a luxury to be able to visit like that ! Have a great weekend ... woof, woof ...  :kissing:

[steve057]

Good luck this weekend Anders! Enjoy yourself! I envy you being that close to your girl,it is nice that you can see her that often! Someday soon mine will be very close to me
Steve

[Diplomacy]

Udachi!  Make the most of it, and wish you both the happiness you deserve.  I have always wanted to visit SPG, it a a treasure trove of culture and museums.  That is on my list of must visit for sure.

[diverboy70]

Thanks for your kind words guys!

The weekend was ok, but reality is closing in! We had our first real argument this time. I think we are getting to the point when the reality of things is getting clear for her. She is getting a bit of cold feets. Thinking of how life would be if she were to move here. The questions of work, language and all the practiacliteis of life.

On the good side is that we can talk about it. She was brutaly honest and it was just about the things that I also had been thinking about! The most possitive thing was that she didn't even mentioned my son as a problem.

This will be a question of love vs. practiacilies! I don't know how it will end, but on the positive side we are still talking about it!

Ok thats it from a "little confused puppy"

[Shadow]

It is normal that on one point the reality of living in another country is going to set in.
But that stage will pass.

[diverboy70]

Yes, maybe I was stupid trying to take a girl from St: Pete to this little small place, and having a small boy on week/wek! I don't know yet, it was just an argument abut te tingss i also have been thinking about!

I will give her some time to think about if she can live with ehat I can offer, I know it is not easy for her either!

However in the future, if this does not work ut I will ave a lot more thought about the WOVO thing vs VWVW

[ConnerVT]

I didn't really believe my (then future) wife and I had a real relationship until we had our first real argument.  Up to that point, everyone is usually on their best behavior.  It is only after you see how people behave after they let their guard down that you truly learn about each other.

Another important aspect is how things get resolved afterwards.  Arguments will happen from time to time in a relationship, no matter how infrequent.  The manner in which they are resolved usually shows how well (or not) things will be in the future.

[steviej]

Thanks for your kind words guys!

The weekend was ok, but reality is closing in! We had our first real argument this time. I think we are getting to the point when the reality of things is getting clear for her. She is getting a bit of cold feets. Thinking of how life would be if she were to move here. The questions of work, language and all the practiacliteis of life.

On the good side is that we can talk about it. She was brutaly honest and it was just about the things that I also had been thinking about! The most possitive thing was that she didn't even mentioned my son as a problem.

This will be a question of love vs. practiacilies! I don't know how it will end, but on the positive side we are still talking about it!

Ok thats it from a "little confused puppy"

Diver, you say you had your first argument. About what? I dont' understand. I mean, I could see a serious discussion about what life would be like for her in your town, vs. St. Petersburg. This could cause some soul-searching, maybe a quiet moment where the enthusiam seems to have slipped away. Maybe she said, "Diver, for the first time, I feel scared or unsure about life in your town, and could I adjust?" But that in itself is not an argument. An arguement is, she: "I'm never leaving St. Petersburg". he: ""Oh yes you are. If you're my woman you're coming with me!" She: "You are a belligerant man!" he:" And you are stubborn girl!" If you see what I mean.

About adjusting to life in your town, hasn't she known about where you live, how big it is, etc, since the beginning? Or did you only this time tell her you live in a town of 1800 people that's 500km from anywhere else?

A serious discussion about life in your town is not in itself an argument. Please, tell us details of what the argument actually was. I think we can help if we understand that. All women are differeent of course, but in my experience, when a Russian women is nervous or afraid, she might seem more aggressive, but what she really wants is reassurance and to feel to quiet confidence, certainty and strength of her man, and the constancy of his love (I know some of that may be way ahead of where you are with this girl, though). It took me a while to understand that with my wife. It's a different reaction than a Western girl. Psychologically, Russia is like a "pre-Freudian" land.

[steviej]

And in addition, this may sound off the wall, but I do mean it seriously. Have you heard of PMS? It is a period of time about 1 week before a woman gets her period when a certain percentage of women have wildly intense emotional reactions to things that is simply physical and hormonal, but seems real to them. Personally, within the limited circle of Russian women I know, I am convinced that Slavic women have a higher incidendence and higher intensity of this than some other groups. My wife has a cylce of reactions to this you can set your watch to. She understands all this now, and we can laugh, but it is still part of her physical reality. Do you know anything yet about her cycle? Was your visit near or at the beginning? Just something to consider.

[diverboy70]

Stevie!

I think it was just a bit of cold feets, We had an hour of concersation tonight and we seem to be ok. Anybody saing that this is a cinderella story without any problems is either lying or exteremly lucky!

After our talk tonight I am not too worried, I feel that we can find an undertanding in this!

[steviej]

One thing I learned about my wife in those earlier stages was that if she was nervous and uncertain, my instinctive reaction (based on AW experience) was to see it as her expressing she had uncertain feelings to me. I learned quickly that was wrong and backwards. What I learned was she was needing to see me be confident, determined, reassuring, and to reiterate my love to her in some way. It was one of those Russian things you hear about sometimes, but aren't sure really what to make of it, when she's feeling a little weak or insecure, she wants to feel and see her man as strong. That just calmed my wife right down. Still does  There may be no connection, but your girl may be expressing in that Russian way, "I hope he truly cares enough about me for me to go through all this for him" something like that. I may not be saying well.

[diverboy70]

One thing I learned about my wife in those earlier stages was that if she was nervous and uncertain, my instinctive reaction (based on AW experience) was to see it as her expressing she had uncertain feelings to me. I learned quickly that was wrong and backwards. What I learned was she was needing to see me be confident, determined, reassuring, and to reiterate my love to her in some way. It was one of those Russian things you hear about sometimes, but aren't sure really what to make of it, when she's feeling a little weak or insecure, she wants to feel and see her man as strong. That just calmed my wife right down. Still does  There may be no connection, but your girl may be expressing in that Russian way, "I hope he truly cares enough about me for me to go through all this for him" something like that. I may not be saying well.

I really think this was what happened even for us. I just was not ready to handle it and to be "the strong man" when it happened  She got scared about the tought of moving away from all she knows and all of her security. The way she put it was quite harsh and my response maybe not so understanding as it could have been

yes now I can see the reasons and we have also sorted it out. We are ok now, a bit more wise and maybe a bit torned by the "indident"

As I see it, it was a good thing that we had this discussion. At least now I know, she wont run away at the first problem in our relationship!

Im sure some guys here is going to tell me to move on and find a a new woman, that it is too early to have arguments this early in a relationship. But i will not, I like this girls so much and these things happens in most relationships. We are both very stong willed and I'm not so surprised that this happened. I rather will wait and see if we can work this out in a good way, that will be a good sign about how this will work out. So far it is looking good, yes two strong wills, but also two wills to try to understand and move further!

Maybe Im just overplaying this, it just came out of a sudden and I was not able to deal with it in the best way! 

[groovlstk]

I really think this was what happened even for us. I just was not ready to handle it and to be "the strong man" when it happened  She got scared about the tought of moving away from all she knows and all of her security. The way she put it was quite harsh and my response maybe not so understanding as it could have been

I went through the same thing w/my wife after we got engaged. In our daily talks she suddenly had a belligerent and nagging edge which at first worried me - until I realized she was scared out of her wits and needed a daily dose of reassurance. Everything was fine after that.

[ScottinCrimea]

I know, at least with my wife, that when she is acting in a way that makes me the least desirous of hugging her, is when she needs it the most.

[steviej]

I know, at least with my wife, that when she is acting in a way that makes me the least desirous of hugging her, is when she needs it the most.

That is so interesting. I learned the same thing. BC, groove, me and probably diverboy too. It's part of the generalized RW character thing. Also, it may be a combination of genetics and culture, but its more common for Russian women to have "flare ups" I think. As the OMBs her can tell you, usually she's feeling insecure or afraid of something. I know for sure now my wife needs and expects me to be "the man" at that moment, who is not upset or distressed with "his woman's" emotions, but calms her, reassures her, and is stable like a rock she can lean on and depend on. You have to learn how to read it differently, because it is different than the AW thing. It hardly happens anymore, by the way. I can't say never, but it was most during that whole engagement, relocating, preliminary marriage era. The more confident I was, the more I hugged and and reassured her of my love, the happier she was. I know how to read her so well now that I can hug her and melt her anytime I want .. LOL   

[steviej]

Im sure some guys here is going to tell me to move on and find a a new woman, that it is too early to have arguments this early in a relationship. But i will not, I like this girls so much and these things happens in most relationships. We are both very stong willed and I'm not so surprised that this happened. I rather will wait and see if we can work this out in a good way, that will be a good sign about how this will work out. So far it is looking good, yes two strong wills, but also two wills to try to understand and move further!

I don't think most of us would say that. Conner made an important point: how is the flare up resolved? I would add, how often do flare-ups occur? You can definitely tell after a while if it seems that you're involved with a woman who has more flare-ups than you want to deal with, regardless of how they are resolved. The slang for that is "high maintenance woman" Most guys would say stay away from that. You haven't shared anything that makes your girl seem like that at all so far.

[MaxxumUSA]

Just wanted to put my few cents in here...  maybe a bit more than two pennies.

Firstly my experience with my wife and the feedback I have received from her concerning her Russian female friends is that a RW not only accepts traditional male/female roles...  they desire it very much.  I will digress a moment and state that this is the MAIN reason I sought a mate outside of the USA.

Get in an argument with an AW and she will take off - not answer her cell - and quite possibly end up in some night club getting some "strange" because in her little screwed up world you are on the outs and she is free to do what she wants.  Get into an argument with a RW and she will probably wait for you to stand your ground and stand up and be the man...  then possibly call some of her girlfriends and check in.  My point here is that the mental and emotional differences between what you are used to and this RW you are with are very different.

Not sure where I'm going with this so bear with me.

I suppose without claiming to know exactly what all RW think I will generalize based on my experience that a RW will want to know that her man can do a few things.  Here is a short list:
1.  Provide at least basics financially.
2.  Be the man in a relationship.
3.  Be able to support her in her wishes and dreams.
4.  Be stable in mind and heart.
5.  Be strong in all of the above.
6.  Be flexible when possible.
7.  Be honest at all times.

This is just a few things.

From my experience with arguing with my wife, I can tell you that it is much different than arguing with any AW I ever knew.

First of all and very important to me - my wife "cleans her side of the street" by apologizing for anything she felt she did or said wrong during our down time.  I do the same of course however she does so without the expectation that I will do so.  As a matter of fact after our very first argument she said sorry to me and I was in shock because I could not ever remember when a woman apologized to me for anything in any relationship.

Next is that she (and I assume most RW) are capable of compromise and understanding of both sides of issues.  In other words she actually listens to my side of the argument/situation and will concede to parts that she understands.  At first she might be upset and disagree on a point but after she takes a bit of time to think she will come back and say:  "You were right about this and right about that.  But we still need to talk about that third thing."

Diver...  In your particular case based on what I have read here I can give you a bit of advice...

First of all you honestly do need to be the man, provider, protector in the relationship because quite simply - YOU ARE.  All of the time from her on out you are.  If for some reason you don't feel up to that task just get in front of a mirror and tell yourself that those are your jobs until you get it.  Your son and your future wife depend on you for everything.  Everything.  You ARE the man.  Always.  Don't take it too lightly and at the same time don't take it so serious as to ruin the enjoyment of it.  If you start with this mindset then you will be much better off.

Next ...  knowing that you are provider, man, protector of your family...  know that you need to step up to the plate at all times.  SOMETIMES this means you need to come to the other members of the family to help and support you so that you can be the strong one.  (Remember flying and they tell you put the oxygen mask on yourself and then on your child/spouse?)  Same deal.  You need to take good care of yourself and keep yourself in a position to be the leader/man of the household.  Not sure if I'm wording this correctly but I hope you get the point.

Finally  ...  Do not be afraid to make decisions and stay by them...  with the possibility of compromise.  In other words...  YOU are the man.  YOU should have the plan.  I.E.  We will date x amount of time and if all is well we will get engaged and file paperwork in x amount of time and you will live here and this and that and everything concerning your family should have been planned.  Not necessarily on paper - but planned in your head.  Maybe when the time is right you will share these plans for your family however this is not necessary at all times because after all you are the leader and this is how it'sgoing to happen.  I'm speaking very vague on purpose because I'm trying to tell you in a general way how I see it.


If there is resistance by yourself or someone else accepting that you are the leader and man of the family then first you must REMIND yourself and then possibly remind others the essentials:

1.  You have all financial details under control.
2.  You love and honor your family.
3.  Your main goal in life is to care for your family.
4.  If for some reason you fall short you will be honest with all involved.
5.  ??  (I'm sure I'm leaving some other good things to say out of this post)

In any case you need to make sure that she knows how sure of your capabilities you are.  No wavering over little crap.

So I am not sure if I helped you with this rambling mumbo jumbo but I hope I did.

Best to you and yours,

- Maxxum

[Diplomacy]

Diver:

You are in great hands with this crew.  My OMG friend mirrors the advice that the majority of the men give here.  I am trying to get him to post and introduce himself.  The issue is he is 47yo and has a 2 yo.

It is funny, you can see right through what they are getting to if you listen.  His wife gave a small general statement each time that was blunt, but easy to read into.  For example, you are great with our boy and daughter.

It is like a grenade, just got to wait for it to go off.  About 10 minutes later, a question.  You would like more children right?  Then there was clear communication back to the girl I am meeting.  She told me that she would like more children, and then asked if I did also.

There had to be 10 examples easy of this all week.  Of course I have a luxury of best friends and a marriage as good as it gets to refer to.  Everyone is a product of their environment, you have a luxury of men that understand theirs. 

I do admire the family that my friend has very much.  He has taken a lot of time away from his own family to make sure I know what I am up against lol.  Home is where the heart is Diver, just help her make it her home in her heart. 

These are very resilient women, and find ways in a small town to make her happy.  Most of all, let her decorate it in a manner that is native to her.  Hold ground on your one man room lol.  Most important plan trips to a large city, and give her something to look forward to.

I am going out on a limb here.  As far as a man raising a boy, that has to be an advantage for you.  Most men there would not even talk to their son again in many cases.  They would leave the wife and family as if they were dead to them.  You are involved with raising your son, she should admire that quality.

Remember knowledge is power, use that to gain confidence on being the man in a manner they want.  Set expectations correctly, and you will be fine.  Anybody would be freaking out over such a culture change and leaving everything they know and what is normal to them.

IMO you have yet to see the true blood boil in her. 

[diverboy70]

Diplomacy

You are a wise guy We have been talking this through a lot, and we are ok with it for now and we will meet again in one week. But I feel that I need more face time with this woman to be sure. She has a lot of potential, and it was a long time since I felt anything like this for a woman. But I also see that she is not perfect (but then again i'm not either ) She is in some ways a bit immature (she's only 24)

We just have to see. I feel that we have a connection and that this is growing stronger constantly. This "fight" that we had also made both of us think, and as it feels now we both want to go on with this!

What a cinderella story of love at first sight

But I still believe in this 

[steviej]

... She is in some ways a bit immature (she's only 24)

I've found that compared to AWs, RWs are in some ways more worldly wise, and in other areas less mature. There really is a difference in the expression of some of their emotions, and what it means underneath it all. And RWs have a kind of "fiery-ness" to them sometimes that is different than usual AW, when they are upset about something. So part of it is learning how to "read" her better, and for her to learn how to read herself, and you better. Sometimes what appears to be immature can be miscommunication. But also, it could certainly be just immaturity.

Are you going to give us a clue about the nature of this disagreement? ....