My happy day

[BC]

Just for clarification. There is nothing spicy about salmonella poisoning 

Well on the 'downside' jalapeños can come close.. (I did eat a lot of them though stuffed with cream cheese).

I believe the 'nuking' treatment you mention is done with radiation (cobalt) and not laser.

Maybe it's the vodka that protects..  I remember the rule about eating raw oysters.. always drink wine with them.

[Faux Pas]

Well on the 'downside' jalapeños can come close.. (I did eat a lot of them though stuffed with cream cheese).

I believe the 'nuking' treatment you mention is done with radiation (cobalt) and not laser.

Maybe it's the vodka that protects..  I remember the rule about eating raw oysters.. always drink wine with them.

I don't recall the name of the treatment but mentioned it was a new technology. Radiation has been around for years. Maybe it was some new form of radiation? It still hasn't been approved for meats. Once salmonella is introduced into the system there is nothing that counters it. It just has to run it course and it's not amusing. The body can reject smaller doses it's the higher doses that do the damage

[BC]

Once salmonella is introduced into the system there is nothing that counters it. It just has to run it course and it's not amusing. The body can reject smaller doses it's the higher doses that do the damage

There are antibodies.. and there are RUbodies.. the latter seem to fair much better.

Agree that it ain't a laughing matter when your body ain't up to it.

I think salmonella is a product of modern society.. I doubt the caveman would have been affected much by such.

[MaxxumUSA]

I think salmonella is a product of modern society.. I doubt the caveman would have been affected much by such.

I would take a wild stab and guess that salmonella and many other bacteria have been here for aeons.  I suggest that the modern human has become extremely strong in some respects against these little critters but in some instances we are weaker.

Not to mention the fact that the little creatures change over the years to make themselves more effective against us humans.

Microbioligist I am not.  Just my opinion.  Maybe someone with some real knowledge can chime in.

- Maxxum

[Misha]

I would take a wild stab and guess that salmonella and many other bacteria have been here for aeons.  I suggest that the modern human has become extremely strong in some respects against these little critters but in some instances we are weaker.

Keep in mind that before modern medicine, at least half of all children died before the age of five due to illness.

[Shadow]

It just takes a good foundation to process bad food.
By having complete disregard for expiry dates, and trusting the taste of the product instead, I have built up a good amount of resistance. If I eat something that is bad, all I need is one night to get rid of it. So far I have survived all without problems.

The human body needs to have defense against attackers. However do not take my word for it 

[SANDRO43]

I suggest that the modern human has become extremely strong in some respects against these little critters but in some instances we are weaker.

Modern babies/kids whose parents are paranoid about asepsis probably develop a weaker immune system, IMHO.

At their age, whenever I got home with dirty bruised knees or some superficial bleeding, a wash, a dab of iodine (ouch ) or at most a sprinkling of sulpha powder was quite sufficient, and wearing a scab, covering the previous entry point of a few million useful bacteria, was a proud sign of worldliness .

[ScottinCrimea]

Modern babies/kids whose parents are paranoid about asepsis probably develop a weaker immune system, IMHO.

At their age, whenever I got home with dirty bruised knees or some superficial bleeding, a wash, a dab of iodine (ouch ) or at most a sprinkling of sulpha powder was quite sufficient, and wearing a scab, covering the previous entry point of a few million useful bacteria, was a proud sign of worldliness .

I agree with Sandro here.  Our paranoia over germs has actually caused us more harm than good.  It seems those who are exposed to more pathogens as small children are less likely to have problems with them later.  The whole concept of asepsis benefits the soap and detergent industry primarily.

There has been a steady increase in asthma and allergies that many have attributed to decreased exposure to "normal' germs and viruses at an early age.  For example, one study showed that infants who lived in a household with at least two dogs had a much lower incidence of asthma.

I grew up in an age where we rolled in the dirt, routinely stepped in dog poop and handled all manner of unhealthy materials and my incidence of disease seems to be on the low side.  We raised our children with the same easigoing attitude and they are also extremely healthy.  I remember with our first daughter we were told to boil everything for fear of imminent death, but after I saw her drop her pacifier in the dirt a dnput it back in her mouth a few times, I quit worrying.

As far as salmonella and chicken, while the incidence of the germ in chicken has increased, it doesn't mean that all chickens contain salmonella.  In many cases, people assume that because they get diarrhea it is from salmonella, but in the vast majority of cases it is e. coli.  A classic symptom of salmonella poisoning is bloody diarrhea.  If you aren't seeing red streaks, it was probably e. coli, not salmonella.  But of course claiming salmonella poisoning is much more impressive.

I was involved in a couple of studies while in college.  One measured the anti-bacterial affects of soaps and cleansers claiming this and found that they actually weren't much better than water alone.  The other measured the amount of bactera on the skin both before and after hand washing.  The results were that there were actually more bacteria on the surfaces of the hands after washing than before.  This is because the disturbance of the skin caused bacteria under the surface layers to come to tthe surface.  Of course any obvious sources of pathogenic contaminents should be washed off.

Among microbiology majors there were two groups.  The first group came to realize that bacteria were everywhere and became extremely paranoid, seeking to sterilize everything they came in contact with.  The other group also came to the same realization but accepted the realities and stopped trying so hard to escape the bacteria.  "They're everywhere, you can't avoid them, so why waste the effort."

You can guess which group I belong to. 

[SANDRO43]

There has been a steady increase in asthma and allergies that many have attributed to decreased exposure to "normal' germs and viruses at an early age.  For example, one study showed that infants who lived in a household with at least two dogs had a much lower incidence of asthma.

Scott, you're confirming a suspicion I've long harboured, i.e. that these complaints may be due to an immune system which is weaker because it was not 'exercised' properly enough early on. When I was a kid, hay fever was something  that maybe a distant aunt living in the countryside suffered from - curiously, it always seemed to involve females then . I cannot remember any of my early male schoolmates (5-12 yo) showing any symptoms, and we were together for all of 5 years in elementary school.

[ScottinCrimea]

Sandro, I think if you talk to anyone who lived in the good old days you willl hear the same anecdotal stories.

[roykirk]

But I think we're straying from the point, perhaps to a dangerous level.  Regardless of how we got here (i.e. too much use of soap/exposure to germs, etc.), we're at a point now where people are getting very sick and occasionally dying from stuff that used to be fairly innocuous.  Food borne illnesses sicken up to 81 million people each year and kill 9,000 (CDC).  Then you have some holy-sh** stuff popping up like meningitis and pneumonia, that killed two school friends of mine before they were 40 years old.

For my own peace of mind, I'll keep insisting on washing plates properly and I'll certainly be making sure my kids get their vaccinations.  I'm the last person you'll ever see who will let a little raw chicken juice on to their kids plate saying, "Alright Bobby, time to build up some of those important antibodies!"   

[SANDRO43]

For my own peace of mind, I'll keep insisting on washing plates properly and I'll certainly be making sure my kids get their vaccinations.  I'm the last person you'll ever see who will let a little raw chicken juice on to their kids plate saying, "Alright Bobby, time to build up some of those important antibodies!"   

Quite sensible Roy, as usual it's extremes that are dangerous, such as filling a toddler with antibiotics if he/she has a simple cold .

[Blues Fairy]

For my own peace of mind, I'll keep insisting on washing plates properly

Those who wish to have this kind of peace of mind definitely should not marry women from some foresty Tundra parts of Russia (Evenkia, Sakha) - where folks actually believe that not washing dishes and leaving some remains of meal on them actually makes the next meal even tastier. 

[roykirk]

Those who wish to have this kind of peace of mind definitely should not marry women from some foresty Tundra parts of Russia (Evenkia, Sakha) - where folks actually believe that not washing dishes and leaving some remains of meal on them actually makes the next meal even tastier. 

Okay, I actually feel sick to my stomach right now just from reading that.   

[SANDRO43]

where folks actually believe that not washing dishes and leaving some remains of meal on them actually makes the next meal even tastier. 

Also, they just have to whistle, and the dishes will come obediently to their table ?

[Blues Fairy]

Also, they just have to whistle, and the dishes will come obediently to their table ?

No, they down a few shots and a special house goblin emerges from under the table, to help around/ mess up things.

[MaxxumUSA]

Those who wish to have this kind of peace of mind definitely should not marry women from some foresty Tundra parts of Russia (Evenkia, Sakha) - where folks actually believe that not washing dishes and leaving some remains of meal on them actually makes the next meal even tastier. 

   First to OP - Sorry for the off topic here. 

Ever hear of a "Dutch Oven?"  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_oven

I have had one for many years that was gifted to me.  I believe it is close to 100 years old - maybe older.  No soap is allowed in it.  I use it for camping.  I ususally just let whatever was cooked in it previously to get mostly dumped, then I let the dutch oven sit on (in) the campfire until all the remaining food evaporates into the cast iron and turns to ashes.

My (russian) wife hates that I "clean" it like this.  I tell her:  "How can I remember the last camp outing if I can't taste it!?"

One time I woke up late and found her trying to wash it with soap and water and I was a bit upset.  It only needs heat and the reamins of the last meal will turn into good flavor and ashes.

Point being that the leaving of food for flavor from a previous meal is not only an ancient russian tradition.  I just practiced this same tradition the last time I camped - two weeks ago alive here in 2008 - USA.  ))




- Maxxum

[KenC]

  First to OP - Sorry for the off topic here. 

Ever hear of a "Dutch Oven?"  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_oven

I have had one for many years that was gifted to me.  I believe it is close to 100 years old - maybe older.  No soap is allowed in it.  I use it for camping.  I ususally just let whatever was cooked in it previously to get mostly dumped, then I let the dutch oven sit on (in) the campfire until all the remaining food evaporates into the cast iron and turns to ashes.

My (russian) wife hates that I "clean" it like this.  I tell her:  "How can I remember the last camp outing if I can't taste it!?"

One time I woke up late and found her trying to wash it with soap and water and I was a bit upset.  It only needs heat and the reamins of the last meal will turn into good flavor and ashes.

Point being that the leaving of food for flavor from a previous meal is not only an ancient russian tradition.  I just practiced this same tradition the last time I camped - two weeks ago alive here in 2008 - USA.  ))




- Maxxum

Aren't cast iron skillets suppose to never be washed with water either?  My late ex MIL use to cook some of the best corn bread in her cast iron skillet.  IIRC she used to season it with oil.
KenC

[ConnerVT]

  First to OP - Sorry for the off topic here. 

Ever hear of a "Dutch Oven?"  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_oven

Yes, but like many words in English, the name ambiguous meanings...      

[UTRO]

Not sure about the Soap... but I know that Lana and her Parents have dishracks in their cupboards. When they wash a dish they put it up into the Cupboard wet and then close the Cupboard door!! No towel drying. Anyone experience this?? Lana thinks I'm god's gift when I visit and I dry the dishes! Ahem,.... I also rid her glasses of hard water spots from her months, nyet.. years of 'self drying'!!! Okay, I'm an anal Westerner!!

[Misha]

Aren't cast iron skillets suppose to never be washed with water either?  My late ex MIL use to cook some of the best corn bread in her cast iron skillet.  IIRC she used to season it with oil.
KenC

I use a cast iron frying pan at home all the time. You have to season a new pan: cover it with oil/vegetable shortening (i.e. Crisco) and put it in the oven for an hour at 300-325 degrees. The first few times you use it, it is best to cook something with a high fat content such as bacon. Then, I just wash with water. If necessary, I boil a bit of water in the frying pan after using it and let it cool. Everything then washes off with no scrubbing. When clean, I just dry it with a paper towel and then cover the bottom and sides of the pan with cooking oil. It is then ready for the next meal.

[roykirk]

Not sure about the Soap... but I know that Lana and her Parents have dishracks in their cupboards. When they wash a dish they put it up into the Cupboard wet and then close the Cupboard door!! No towel drying. Anyone experience this?? Lana thinks I'm god's gift when I visit and I dry the dishes! Ahem,.... I also rid her glasses of hard water spots from her months, nyet.. years of 'self drying'!!! Okay, I'm an anal Westerner!!

Wet dishes in the cupboard not only cause spots, but they also cause mold in the wood.  I guess I'm an anal Westerner too.   

[KenC]

Yes, but like many words in English, the name ambiguous meanings...      

Isn't that the truth, Conner.  My babuska's "Dutch oven" was a slow cooker on steroids.  It was a huge electric cooker that would hold enough stuffed cabbage to feed the Russian army!  I was almost 3 feet long by 2 feet wide and 18 inches deep.
KenC

[UTRO]

Wet dishes in the cupboard not only cause spots, but they also cause mold in the wood.  I guess I'm an anal Westerner too.   

Absolutely!!! By the way, Lana is gonna' Kill me when she reads this!!!!!   

[ConnerVT]

Isn't that the truth, Conner.  My babuska's "Dutch oven" was a slow cooker on steroids.  It was a huge electric cooker that would hold enough stuffed cabbage to feed the Russian army!  I was almost 3 feet long by 2 feet wide and 18 inches deep.
KenC

That wasn't the definition of "Dutch Oven" I was thinking of...