The Truth About a Lie in My Trip Report

[steviej]

Not long after joining RWD this year I wrote a trip report called, “So You Want a Younger Woman: True Confessions,” which I incorrectly posted in the Starting Out section. In that narrative I described how I planned and met two women on my first trip to Moscow, Tatiana and Ulyana. That was not true. There was no second woman. There was no Tatiana. There was only one woman I met, and that was Ulyana. There had been a Tatiana I had corresponded with for a while earlier as I was also corresponding with Ulyana, but that had ended at least two months before. My whole trip to Moscow had only one purpose: to meet Ulyana. Everything else in my trip report about me and Ulyana is true. The fact that part of the T/R I wrote wasn’t true has bothered me, so I want to set the record straight here.

Why did I feel I needed to stretch the story and add the second woman? I don’t know for sure really, except I think I felt embarrassed to be such a simpleton in the eyes of the other more experienced guys here. I had read enough on RWD at that point to know that I had done what most guys absolutely recommend you do not do. I married the only woman I ever met in the FSU. Most of the other guys were so much more experienced and sensible in their pursuit of finding the right woman, I guess I felt I shouldn’t admit to being so simple minded. I didn’t want to be just a blind squirrel that found an acorn. I guess I wanted to have some wisdom for “newbies.” … LOL. But I don’t think I really have any.

Another aspect of the story I really underplayed was this: I was already in love with Ulyana before I even went to Moscow the first time. My trip was not exploratory. I went with a purpose: to get and marry the woman I loved. I know most, probably all, would say you cannot be in love with a woman on the telephone and a bunch of pictures. But I was. And I was no spring chicken. I was 46, I had raised two sons, been divorced, and kicked around a little by life. I knew a lot about marriage and a least a little about women. The only sensible thing I did was not starting the K-1 visa process after returning from my first visit. That did not start until after my third visit. But I never intended to do otherwise. I did have all those incredibly intense feelings stepping into the plane that first time: the fear, the hope, the surreality, the physical palpitations and so on. And I did have those moments of doubting my sanity. But there was no doubt in my mind about my feelings and purpose.

During the last two months before I went to Moscow the first time, I was already talking with Ulyana on the phone everyday for at least two hours. We usually talked between 8pm – 10pm everyday, often with a couple other very short “Good morning honey” and late, “Good night sweetie,” calls. Our letter writing continued as well. My calls were so extended and frequent they were family events. I often chatted briefly with her mother who would try, unsuccessfully, to say a couple things to me in English. And I would try, unsuccessfully, to say a couple things to her in Russian. Less often I would go through the same thing with her father. There was always some excitement when Ulyana had left a message for her family to read to me in English about a change in her plans, either calling her later, or somewhere else, something like that. It was really funny, wonderful and endearing. I would hear her mother, sister and her father all talking to each other excitedly in Russian in the background while one of them would try to read Ulyana’s phonetic instructions in what to say to me in English. Eventually I would learn something earth-shattering like, “Steve, call Ulyana at 9:00pm. She is at the market.” … LOL. And they were all very relieved when it was clear I understood the message. As time went on, I could hear the growing warmth and familiarity in their voices to me.

And then there was her uncle too. He lived in a flat on the other side of town with his wife, daughter and Ulyana’s beloved grandmother. Depending on Ulyana’s schedule for the next day, she would often stay at her uncle’s flat and I would call her there. Her uncle was always very excited to talk to me, and would appropriate the phone from Ulyana to do so (he did know a bit of English). I had to work hard to get rid of him …LOL  and get back to my Ulyana. Even so, he would still often interrupt with his comments and questions that he demanded Ulyana ask of me. She was so effortlessly tolerant of him it amazed me. I remember thinking an American woman would not accept his tone of voice, but to her it was nothing unusual in life, just like having a bull in the barn. I have often wondered what this whole scenario must have been like in the eyes of her family. This telephoning went on until my second visit, when I met her family for the first time in person. Previous to that, I only existed for them for six months as this invisible man from a distant land talking extensively with their daughter every day. Perhaps it seemed like a medieval romance with the princess at her castle window and the prince in the courtyard coming around every day singing, reciting poetry, and doing everything he can to draw the attention and affection of the woman he desires .. LOL, I don’t know what they thought. I think there was something exciting and romantic in all of it for them too.

They were all characters I felt I knew well before even meeting them on my second visit. During our talks we were frequently interrupted with questions from them about something in America, about me, or really almost anything. I would often hear in the background the equivalent in Russian of, “Ulya, Ulya ask Steve this, or tell Steve that … “ … LOL. I felt that I was already part of their family and they were all very dear to me. Her father and mother had mastered the art of appearing to ask innocent questions that were really probing for more information about me … LOL. When I met Ulyana’s family for the first time in person, it was like meeting old and very dear friends. We hugged, her mother and grandmother cried a little and I almost cried. Her father and uncle would not stop hugging me and slapping me on the back (too hard .. LOL). I felt like the son who had been taken away in the army and had finally returned home. I had developed this whole extended family relationship built by telephone. And on our second visit, we could not escape them even when we wanted to get more time alone .. LOL. Back and forth from one flat to the other, dinner everyday. It was so wonderful. I think they were even competing with each other a little bit as to who gets Steve and Ulyana today. I just loved having dinner with her family. The women were always together, talking, cooking, serving, cleaning, fussing, saying to me “Steve, sit, eat!”. LOL. The men were together talking, being gruff (her father was always more gruff when her uncle was around). Her uncle had found a translator program for his computer, and I could not escape sitting at that computer with him and her father, trying to have discussions via that blasted program … LOL. And I loved every minute of it. It was the richest family moments and experiences of my life. I can still get tears in my eyes when I think back on it, and I love them all so dearly. A little over a year ago, our beloved Babushka died. I was so sad. She had demonstrated her love for me more than either of my own grandmothers ever had. Whenever I would see granny, she would hold me in this very tight bear hug for several minutes and she wouldn’t let go, while she was muttering tender things in Russian I didn’t understand. And ever since she had been a little girl, Ulyana had been her greatest treasure in the world.

Before I actually met Ulyana the first time, I had probably talked on the telephone with her for maybe 150-200 hours. Try to imagine how many hours of conversation that really is. I had talked with Ulyana about more things in more depth, more about my deepest philosophical thoughts, feelings, needs and ideas than any other woman ever by far. Ulyana knew way more about the real me than my ex-wife, who had lived with me for close to 20 years, ever knew. You would think that talking to one person, maybe especially a woman, for so many hours would be exhausting. But it was quite the opposite. For us our talks were effortless, flowing easily in and around anything that came to mind, simple daily things or extended philosophical or historical subjects, art, music, you name it. I often played songs I had written on my guitar for her to hear. She would, with the help of her mother or sister, play her accordion for me. She was a classically trained musician. We gave each other little telephone concerts. Her intellect seemed fluid and boundless to me. I felt I knew every little detail about her, her life, her feelings, her intellect, how she grew up, and her for me likewise. She was by far my most favorite female companion of all time. And by the time I went to Moscow the first time, I was in love with her. There’s no question about it.

You might think I was worried about the possibility that upon our meeting, something might be very wrong, some unanticipated chemistry problem. Or one person seeming very unlike what was expected by the other and vice versa. The truth is, I considered that a near impossibility. We had talked so much, there was just no way to fake it or continue a charade in any form. We had exchanged so many pictures, including new ones taken along the way, that there was no way either she or I could have been misled by, for example, seeing only 10 year old photos, or something like that. But what about the physical chemistry? Isn’t it still possible after all that something could still go amiss with it? Again, it seemed to me at that point that it would be basically impossible. The only surprise I had was that Ulyana was actually much more beautiful in person than I was expecting. That was almost overwhelming and I was actually kind of stunned the first couple days from it. I think that I, at least, was not any worse than she expected … LOL. She has always said she loves the way I smell, especially in my ears … LOL. Is that something that could have gone wrong, that she didn’t like my smell? I don’t know. I think women have more sensitive noses than men, though.

During my first visit, we stayed in separate rooms in the Savoy Hotel. I had set it up that way, but I learned later that if I hadn’t, she was going to request it. During our whole time together on the first visit, she never invited me to actually enter her room.. LOL. In the afternoon, she would come to my room where we would rest and talk between tourist activities. Also in my room everyday, she would call  her granny in the afternoon and her mother in the early evening. Oh man, did I ever wish I understood Russian during those calls! .. LOL.  At the end of the evening, I would escort her to her room and we would kiss goodnight at the door. You would think I would’ve felt like a silly high school boy, or perhaps sexually frustrated, but oddly enough, it felt perfect. We spent our days doing the usual touristy things in Moscow, but for me it was absolutely fascinating as I had never been there before. Except for Ulyana I felt like I was on another planet. Well, maybe even with Ulyana, because I can tell you, there was not a single woman in America anything like the woman on my arm then. This I knew for sure, and the reality of it was staggering. I could never find anyone else like Ulyana. I knew it for sure. I could only explain it to myself by thinking it must be my payback for surviving my abusive father, earning my entire way through college and graduate school all by myself,  trying to teach myself how to be a good man, having devoted myself to being a good father, and now what? Is this really my reward? Is the man I’ve become from going through all that the man that a woman like this thinks is a “real man” ?? She seemed to just fit on me and around me like a glove to the hand. I was happy to see that she was happy. It was clear she was delighted that everything was going well for us. On about the 4th day, she actually got a fever (she stayed in my room) and I had a great adventure trying to get to a pharmacy by myself to get something she had written down in Russian for her. I found a good pharmacy and the folks there treated me extremely well. I was treated like an important visitor. They went to get their manager who spoke some English and he helped me get what I needed. I also asked him to show me what the best beauty cream was they had, and I got that too, as a surprise gift for Ulyana. I’m not sure what made her feel better faster, the medicine or the beauty cream. She felt better by the evening and we went for a special dinner at a restaurant I think was called the Silver Century, something like that. It was after that dinner, walking back to the hotel, that she whispered in my ear, “You are the best man in the world ..” And you know what? I felt like I was. I felt like all the threads of my life had come together at that point to be the man that was the man she wanted. I still feel that way.

When I think back on it, I don’t know how I didn’t get fired from work during that time. My productivity simply collapsed. Each day I was simply counting the hours until I could call Ulyana again. I made up this fake project that I was working on, and we had “status calls” it so happens, at about 12pm – 2pm every day! .. LOL. My secretary must have known that something was going on. She would have to interrupt me occasionally and I’m sure it was obvious by my body position, language, and tone of voice that this was no status call. Still, she never asked any questions, and somehow I didn’t get in trouble and I didn’t get fired. For guys that truly have demanding jobs and can’t get away with faking it like I did, this must be a very difficult thing, the pursuit of a woman in the FSU. I don’t know how they do it. Even with that, I did get into some trouble by the time of my second visit. Let’s just say that “we”, the company and me, came to an amicable agreement that I might be better off working independently. .. LOL. I didn’t really get fired because I was allowed to continue working with existing clients and was paid on a subcontractor basis. That’s still basically what I do now. I work at home mostly, and I’m still milking the connections from my old company and clients. Have any of you other guys gotten into trouble at work from getting involved in the FSU pursuit? Maybe this is more common than we realize?

KenC has talked about how he doesn’t recommend what he and Lena did for others. And I’m tempted to say the same thing, maybe I feel obligated to say the same thing: do as I say, not as I do, with regard to the experiences I had with Ulyana. Supposedly I stepped over a lot of landmines, and I’ve said that before here on this forum. But is that really fair for me to say that? In truth, how can I recommend against something that has brought me a deeper joy in life than I thought possible. How can I recommend against doing something the way I did it when it brought to me the most wonderful woman in the world? Isn’t that a little hypocritical? I’m not sure.  Is it really possible to say that this all this worked out because of dumb luck? I’m not so sure. Maybe it’s gratuitous to just say that. Maybe there really is more to it. Maybe some other people should do what I did. Can we really say they shouldn’t?

Well, that’s it. I got if off my chest and set the record straight. Thanks for listening. Ciao !!

[Faux Pas]

Wow stevie. That is a bit of a bombshell and I suppose it is a good thing that you came clean. It will always leave or at least for sometime leave a question mark on your credibility but, you had to ponder that before you posted this correction. So kudos for manning up.

I do hope others and especially newbies read this thread as a "what not to do". Personally, I think an honest trip report would have been more educational and enjoyable. You are clearly a WOVO but you turned it into a fictional WFVF and could have possibly lead someone down a wrong path. Why the need to sound experienced is beyond me. We are what we are. I've always felt that we usually get about half the truth from posters on a forum of any calibre. But I digress. I think you've done a big disservice to RWD but it takes a conscience and set of kahunas to admit it openly as you have done. Take your bumps and move on

[viking]

One of the things you said I found very interesting. Just to single it out. AND THAT IS ABOUT SPENDING TIME AT WORK COMMUNICATING. Some time ago there was a thread about this. One guy, who recognized the time needed in speaking (phone, IM, ICQ, etc) said that if he knew anyone in his company was trying to meet with an RW, he would probabley fire him. It can be a considerable time waster as far as work is concerned. I know there were times when I was huddled over my comp trying to chat, knowing that if any one saw me, I might be in big doo-doo. The occassional sms or a phone call on the weekend is no big deal. But when a guy is getting ready to pull the trigger and is spending a lot of time during normal business hours, yes, it can lead to a difficult work environment. Another reason why this venture is not an easy one. I envy the guys in the UK or in countries where the time difference is only an hour or two.

[BillyB]

Well, that’s it. I got if off my chest and set the record straight. Thanks for listening. Ciao !!

Stevie, thank you. Stand still while I get my gun and a bullet with your name on it! No big deal to me. We all lie. At least you stepped forward with yours and it's not the baddest lie in the World. We have a lot of "tough guys" here and some will put down a person's intelligence if they think that person is doing wrong. No doubt in my mind newbies hold back the complete truth or the full story if they think others are going to come down hard on them.
 
Visit one is risky no matter the success stories here. How many people here married the first woman they've ever met? The odds shouldn't be too much better with meeting your first RW unless you're both determined to fill a wife/husband vacancy.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Wow! Why is it really so difficult for people to say the truth? And this wasn't even a bid deal. Why worry what others would say or think? Especially if you found your lady and your experience is successful after all! Congrats!!!

I married a man who I met only once and that was the only AM i met. First one and the last one. That was after 4 months of calls and corresponding, in 3 days he proposed, in 7 we were married, in 3 months after that i was here in the US.

What's there to be ashamed of? If you know and look closer at the situation it wasn't that crazy at all. I look at this differently. I was absolutely blessed and lucky that it happened so fast and with a first shot so to speak. I am blessed to know in my heart that this is it, forever. I and him were blessed to have that feeling even before we met.....The same thing, the same thing....If somebody has problems determining the chemistry after seeing 100 pictures, then it's their problem, not mine...

If it's meant to be it shouldn't be that difficult, even with different languages and cultures involved, it should be the happiest and almost perfect time of your life for both of you! Why marry then if for any reasons it's not?

Hope your marriage is forever! 

[topofthekey]

Had to comment since I believe I read your trip report. Think it went something like meeting one girl and having another meeting with a second where you pretended you just arrived from the airport as well. Believe thats it- at least thats what is popping up in my head.

I'll admit I'm not doing it your way, but it sounds like your a happy guy. Works 4 me. Maybe link this thread to your past trip report so everyone can get the full story.

Ask Jim Carey- everyone lies. You finally felt comfortable coming out with the truth and you didn't have to unless they started making a lie detector for typing- so I'm happy for you man.

[steviej]

Wow stevie. That is a bit of a bombshell and I suppose it is a good thing that you came clean. It will always leave or at least for sometime leave a question mark on your credibility but, you had to ponder that before you posted this correction. So kudos for manning up.

Thanks Faux Pas. I apologize to and the other guys for that. It sure wasn’t necessary.

I do hope others and especially newbies read this thread as a "what not to do". Personally, I think an honest trip report would have been more educational and enjoyable. You are clearly a WOVO but you turned it into a fictional WFVF and could have possibly lead someone down a wrong path. Why the need to sound experienced is beyond me. We are what we are.

I think, as you say, to state exactly what really happened is important so that “newbies” can see the variations and really decide for themselves what suits them. Trying to fit the “party line” is not the right thing to do here, that’s for sure. It’s odd to say that what brought happiness to me is what “not to do.” But the new guys have to see what really went on and decide for themselves. I shouldn’t have tried to pre-empt that. I’ve read so much on RWD that I even feel like I have way more experience that I really do .. LOL. I do know a lot about what being engaged and married to an RW really is, though, that’s for sure. ... LOL

One of the things you said I found very interesting. Just to single it out. AND THAT IS ABOUT SPENDING TIME AT WORK COMMUNICATING. Some time ago there was a thread about this. One guy, who recognized the time needed in speaking (phone, IM, ICQ, etc) said that if he knew anyone in his company was trying to meet with an RW, he would probabley fire him. It can be a considerable time waster as far as work is concerned. I know there were times when I was huddled over my comp trying to chat, knowing that if any one saw me, I might be in big doo-doo. The occassional sms or a phone call on the weekend is no big deal. But when a guy is getting ready to pull the trigger and is spending a lot of time during normal business hours, yes, it can lead to a difficult work environment. Another reason why this venture is not an easy one. I envy the guys in the UK or in countries where the time difference is only an hour or two.

I realize now I was lucky to even make it for 6 months without any blowback from work. If you are romancing an AW, you don't have those issues or risks. And as you say, for the European guys, they have less of it too. And that in itself can add to the addictive romantic element of the whole thing.

Stevie, thank you. Stand still while I get my gun and a bullet with your name on it! No big deal to me. We all lie. At least you stepped forward with yours and it's not the baddest lie in the World. We have a lot of "tough guys" here and some will put down a person's intelligence if they think that person is doing wrong. No doubt in my mind newbies hold back the complete truth or the full story if they think others are going to come down hard on them.
 
Visit one is risky no matter the success stories here. How many people here married the first woman they've ever met? The odds shouldn't be too much better with meeting your first RW unless you're both determined to fill a wife/husband vacancy.

I'll stand still for my one paintball bullet in the *ss ... LOL Most folks sure don't marry the first woman they meet. Although, it is what happened to me, and worked for me.

Wow! Why is it really so difficult for people to say the truth? And this wasn't even a bid deal. Why worry what others would say or think? Especially if you found your lady and your experience is successful after all! Congrats!!!

I married a man who I met only once and that was the only AM i met. First one and the last one. That was after 4 months of calls and corresponding, in 3 days he proposed, in 7 we were married, in 3 months after that i was here in the US.

What's there to be ashamed of? If you know and look closer at the situation it wasn't that crazy at all. I look at this differently. I was absolutely blessed and lucky that it happened so fast and with a first shot so to speak. I am blessed to know in my heart that this is it, forever. I and him were blessed to have that feeling even before we met.....The same thing, the same thing....If somebody has problems determining the chemistry after seeing 100 pictures, then it's their problem, not mine...

If it's meant to be it shouldn't be that difficult, even with different languages and cultures involved, it should be the happiest and almost perfect time of your life for both of you! Why marry then if for any reasons it's not?

Hope your marriage is forever! 

Anastasia, I did not know that about your story. Thanks for sharing. You know, the pure relationship part itself, it sure seemed to happen naturally and smoothly for me with Ulyana. There were visas, and adjustments, and all that of course. But the pure relationship part itself, it was just a dream. It still is. Doesn’t seem possible, does it? But it was the same for you, wasn’t it? I am very glad to know that. And thank you for your good wishes to me and Ulyana. And I wish the same for you.

Had to comment since I believe I read your trip report. Think it went something like meeting one girl and having another meeting with a second where you pretended you just arrived from the airport as well. Believe thats it- at least thats what is popping up in my head.

I'll admit I'm not doing it your way, but it sounds like your a happy guy. Works 4 me. Maybe link this thread to your past trip report so everyone can get the full story.

Ask Jim Carey- everyone lies. You finally felt comfortable coming out with the truth and you didn't have to unless they started making a lie detector for typing- so I'm happy for you man.

Real good idea about the link, TOK. I’ll ask Dan about that. Lie detectors for typing … LOL !!

[wxman]

Steve,

You're a classy guy to publicly admit your mistake, when no one of us would have known otherwise. I tip my hat to you!

[2tallbill]

Stevie, I have mixed thoughts about this,

I think that you came clean without getting caught first
was a good decision, and warrants a Kudo

Sometimes I disagree with you (ok often I disagree)
I actually agree with you more often than not.

I hope that you don't get fried like turbo and a few others.
Some of the chief fryer's are not busting chops as of late.


Udachi! Good luck


Bill

[KenC]

I really do not understand the need to fabricate a story in order to conform here.  There is no "standard" to conform to.  There just is no blueprint for success in this venture.  Look at some of the success stories here: Jet met one lady, Bruce met 100's all over the fsu, BC, Dan and jb bumped into their wives while busy doing something else. There are all types of scenarios for meeting the woman of your dreams.

I think the true entertainment of the trip reports are the goof ups and silly things the guys do.  I know I tried to portray the many naive things I did on my trips as much as the smart things.  I wanted to let people know you can do some things wrong and still be successful.

Still cannot grasp the reason you thought it was necessary to embellish your story, but you now recognize the errors of your ways and have fessed up.  You made a mistake, now let's move on to something important.
KenC

[kievstar]

Your probably not the only one on this board not telling the truth at all times.  I think with any message board you can not believe everything you read.  But when you read a lot of guys saying the samething than it has a higher chance of being true.  

[KenC]

I hope that you don't get fried like turbo and a few others.
Some of the chief fryer's are not busting chops as of late.

Bill

Bill,
Without rehashing the details, the two incidents are as different as night and day.
KenC

[BC]

20 lashes with an overcooked spaghetti noodle..

[diverboy70]

Stevie

I want to give you my support here, maybe not in the lying part I also think that was a little bit stupid. But I can see your reasons. It can be scary to be a newbie here and listening to all the opinions of OMBs

What I do want to give my support to is the way you trusted your feelings and went ahead with your WOVO! I also have heard all the talk about back-up plans, and yes it is a good idea. But I also went without any back-up and will do it again, if needed. I'm just a WOVO guy

And I'm just glad it worked out well for you! Just plain luck or that you read all the signals from both your own feelings and from her right, we will never know and we don't need to! 

[mspanky]

 Me thinks wifey saw the Trip report and read things there she was not aware of. Stevie decided to then tell the "real story" here to make his wife happy as the original was fake,..cough.cough

[KenC]

Me thinks wifey saw the Trip report and read things there she was not aware of. Stevie decided to then tell the "real story" here to make his wife happy as the original was fake,..cough.cough

Makes a guy wanna go, HMMMM? :ohbrother:

[steviej]

… Sometimes I disagree with you (ok often I disagree)
I actually agree with you more often than not. …
Bill

Bill, that’s unusual. No one else has ever disagreed with me on anything here before .. LOL

Still cannot grasp the reason you thought it was necessary to embellish your story, but you now recognize the errors of your ways and have fessed up.  You made a mistake, now let's move on to something important.
KenC

Just some weird newbie nervousness or something. Truly stupid and unnecessary.

And I'm just glad it worked out well for you! Just plain luck or that you read all the signals from both your own feelings and from her right, we will never know and we don't need to! 

Thanks, diverboy. I still have calluses on my ear from all those telephone calls!  .. LOL

Me thinks wifey saw the Trip report and read things there she was not aware of. Stevie decided to then tell the "real story" here to make his wife happy as the original was fake,..cough.cough

Good one - Too funny .. !!   … And too plausible !!   

[diverboy70]

Thanks, diverboy. I still have calluses on my ear from all those telephone calls!  .. LOL

Thats why you are so lucky now! I am one of  (maybe) the minority of the people here, that really belive you can get to know a person to 90 % by phone and mail, if both of you are really honest about the process:)

[steviej]

Makes a guy wanna go, HMMMM? :ohbrother:

Believe me she wouldn't care at this point ... BUT .. if this was an update to a T/R from say, 4 years ago ... (our 6th anniversary is this Nov.), that might be a bit of a ... cough cough ... problem     I'd have a frying pan permanently attached to the back of my head, probably !

[Faux Pas]

I can't subscribe to the idea that everybody lies. I can state emphatically I don't. But I haven't written a trip report either. I wouldn't have lied or embellished if I had. I've noticed with most trip reports of WOVO if the trip was a success everything was magical and when they weren't successful everything seemed sinister. For this reason I tend to take it all with a grain of salt and try to decipher fact from possible fiction. Of course using the premise that it is all fact.

Lying on the forum can serve no possible good purpose. Even the author has to feel some guilt as a result unless they are a psychopath. People come here for reliable information. With posters lying it certainly poops on the RW cyber Brotherhood.

stevie,
I too went to Russia on my first trip to meet one woman. I knew I wasn't in love with her when I left. But I also knew I had to meet this very special and exciting woman. Just personally I couldn't fall in love with a woman I haven't met. I do believe it is possible for others. After meeting her I knew I could fall in love with her very easily and did. I realized it on my first trip home but kept quiet and to myself until the second trip.

I knew I was going against the odds and the advice of many members here. I wasn't throwing caution to the wind. There was just one woman in the whole country of Russia I wanted to meet. My only back up plan was  to enjoy myself regardless. I usually have no problem doing that no matter where I am. Fortunately, I didn't need the back up plan. I am beginning to see there are many more WOVO than are admitting.

[topofthekey]

I can't subscribe to the idea that everybody lies. I can state emphatically I don't.

Liar! 

Everyone lies. You can rationalize it however you want, but you lie. Does my butt look big honey? Yes. Boss, how am I doing? You are the worst employee I've ever had

(Checkout counter)... How is your day Sir? Just frickin horrible. My wife left me my dog ran away. Some guy hit my car and ran off.  Wait doesn't everybody just say fine thanks?

Common man

[viking]

Steve

Some time ago I started a thread about how I completely ignored all sense of intelligence and allowed myself to be drawn into the web of a pro dater. I did not have to admit my stupidity, but I did. I went public because it was a bit of a catharsis for me. Most people felt the same way then as they do here. That it took a bit of strength to admit that my behavior was way off base. But it was a learning experience. In the end it helped me put that experience behind me . If this admittance of yours helps you in some way to feel better within yourself, for whatever reason then I am behind you.

[Faux Pas]

Liar! 

Everyone lies. You can rationalize it however you want, but you lie. Does my butt look big honey? Yes. Boss, how am I doing? You are the worst employee I've ever had

(Checkout counter)... How is your day Sir? Just frickin horrible. My wife left me my dog ran away. Some guy hit my car and ran off.  Wait doesn't everybody just say fine thanks?

Common man

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There is a significant difference in not telling the whole truth and telling a bald face lie or complete fabrication. Everyone doesn't lie. I would be lying if I said I have never told a lie. I don't lie. If I were thrust into any situation that requires me to lie I would just refuse an answer. Do I tell someone they look good when they don't? No but I might offer a compliment of another nature. Certainly there could be future situations when that might make me question my position. For quite a few years I have lived by the creed of: I won't lie to you, for you or about you.  Many years ago I lied for a friend. The fallout and grief caused from that lie certainly wasn't worth it.

I am no saint and never have been but I'm no liar either . I don't think everybody lies at least I hope they don't.

  :whirling:

[topofthekey]

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There is a significant difference in not telling the whole truth and telling a bald face lie or complete fabrication. Everyone doesn't lie. I would be lying if I said I have never told a lie. I don't lie. If I were thrust into any situation that requires me to lie I would just refuse an answer. Do I tell someone they look good when they don't? No but I might offer a compliment of another nature. Certainly there could be future situations when that might make me question my position. For quite a few years I have lived by the creed of: I won't lie to you, for you or about you.  Many years ago I lied for a friend. The fallout and grief caused from that lie certainly wasn't worth it.

I am no saint and never have been but I'm no liar either . I don't think everybody lies at least I hope they don't.

  :whirling:

Its all shades of gray.

Lies are lies they just might have significantly different consequences. One guy is having a bad day but when asked by someone (like a cashier) he says I'm fine. I always say doing fine when people like that ask me. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Now another guy can go and cheat on his wife and as long as no one accuses him he can say... well I didn't lie. Maybe he just hid the truth?

Seriously though the world would be an incredibly rude place if everyone told the truth 100% all the time. Thats why terms exist like I'm going to be brutally honest with you.

Even trustworthy people lie. Its all in your connotation of the world. When I read you emphatically stated you dont lie, then yes that made me raise my eyebrows as I would suspect it would most people.

Sometimes lying can be a positive thing. Like in another thread a poster well telling me just how far my attitude toward the Russian government would get me with the women. Now if the women asks me how I really feel about her government should I say what I really think? Or maybe be more polite and not so "brutally honest"?

[steviej]

.. For quite a few years I have lived by the creed of: I won't lie to you, for you or about you.  Many years ago I lied for a friend. The fallout and grief caused from that lie certainly wasn't worth it.

Yes, a profound realization. A threshold many, but not all, get over. One thing that married couples face is the situation where the good friend of one of them, maybe woman to woman, says to her friend, "I have to tell you something. Please, don't tell anyone, not even your husband." My response has always been, "Then you better not tell me anything." I think its essential for marriage that neither accept a pledge to not tell the other something, from anybody, no matter what. One of you guys mentioned, "Is concealing the truth a form of lie?" In this example, yes. Another example is the case where a person has a friend who is married (well, maybe even serious partner?, maybe not serious?) and has found out in some unexpected way, that the friend's spouse is cheating on him/her. Do you make an unsolicited approach and reveal what you know? If you are casual friends "no" but good friends, "yes" ? Is there a boundary at all? Is it none of your business?