She wants me to send her money for her plane ticket....

[Blues Fairy]

Clarkcr, if I were you, I would be more worried about her clinginess and neediness than about the possible $200 scam. 

[Gator]

Clark, there are some negatives:  Anastasia Intl, coming on strong (dead father), and not wanting to ride a train (RW from the provinces have no hesitation in taking 12-18 hour train rides).

Yet, it passes the smell test IMO.  The SMS frequency as Groovlstk mentioned plus denying your financial assistance in the past (a scammer would milk you $100 per mOnth for a few months AND THEN DO the $200 airfare).   

You have spent a lot of time communicating with her.  Assuming her English is good and that she is not reticent, you surely have a reasonable understanding of her by now.  If your heart says "yes", go with it.   Your brain saying "no" is because her request goes against your linear plan, goes against the Ten Commandments, and triggers some negative thoughts.  Please believe me, romancing a RW is dynamic and will not follow a linear path.

My experiences (YMMV):

-  For my first trip in 2002, I voluntarily sent $200 airfare to a UW and $300 to a RW.  Both showed.  Both took the train (and bought stuff with the difference ).   Nevertheless, they were wonderful and taught me much about RW in general.  I have no regrets, only fond distant memories.

-  Having such a good experience, I did it three other times, and all showed.  Two sent me a scanned copy of their air tix with a note saying something like "I will not hide from you."

-  I know of a couple RW who paid their way only to have the Western man not show.  RW get scammed too!  Those stories circulate among the RW, so this could explain part of your woman's insistence.

Anyway, send the money and go.  Have a good time and learn more about this woman and RW in general and whether this venture is your cup of tea.  I am 90% confident that she will show.  If not, Turbo's pragmatic assessment is perfect:  "If worst comes to worst it would be better to be stuck in Kiev with a gal who doesn't show than in Maripol."

[Jack]

I am 90% confident that she will show. 

hey Gator.

This should be interesting.  I'm at 90% she won't show.   

[wxman]

My question is, what backup plan do you have? Assuming that you do send the $200 for a ticket, what are you going to do if she is a no show? The concern should not be about the $200, but what type of backup plan you have. Nothing worse than going to a different country alone, with no idea what to do if your only plan falls through the very first day. Good rule of thumb...assume the best, plan for the worst.

[Jooky]

My vote goes with the 90% no show. My reasoning is simple:

We SMS each other ALL DAY LONG

It costs me 6 rubles to send an SMS from Russia to the US. That's 4 SMS messages for a buck. Someone that is sending SMSs all day long and dozens of photo messages which cost more has the cash for a $200 plane ride.

I could be wrong. Maybe sending an SMS from Ukraine is cheaper? Or maybe the frequency of SMSs is less than I imagine?

I suggest going to Mariupol first. This is a trip to visit only one lady, so get to know her in her home town. Meet her friends and family. See where she grew up and how she lives. If it doesn't work out, you're not stuck in Mariupol. You can hop on the 2 hour flight back to Kiev.

If she strongly resists this idea, you have your answer and it's time to make some new plans!

By the way, how old is she?

[wxman]

It costs me 6 rubles to send an SMS from Russia to the US. That's 4 SMS messages for a buck. Someone that is sending SMSs all day long and dozens of photo messages which cost more has the cash for a $200 plane ride.

Good point!

 I guess one could have 2 arguments on this subject. First if she has all that money to send SMS, then why would she even need $200 from him? In other words, she has enough money, why spend all that time messaging for a measly $200. This would give prudence to trhe fact that she is legit.

The other argument is that she may be messaging several men all day, and $200 from each guy could really add up. Thus the cost of SMS becomes quite cheap and a great way to make a living. 

Oh the dlilemma! 

[groovlstk]

My vote goes with the 90% no show. My reasoning is simple:

It costs me 6 rubles to send an SMS from Russia to the US. That's 4 SMS messages for a buck. Someone that is sending SMSs all day long and dozens of photo messages which cost more has the cash for a $200 plane ride.

I think it depends on the provider. My wife was able to send me unlimited sms for free (to my email address) from Moscow using Beonline.

Good to see you posting again, Jooky.

[Jumper]

Me?
at the point you're at ( i would have meet her in mari so wouldnt be in this scenerio)
 i'd probably send the money...  
but verify the flight cost


Or preferably just  go see her in Mari..??

you don't seem to have any back up plan anyway?(that's fine)
but if your back up plan is agencies ,,
whose to ponder agency in kiev,  over mari?
Either cities agencies would have pluses and minuses? seems a wash to me.
so why not mari..
 ( i think i'd prefer the relative risk of  agency girls there,than in kiev,  quite frankly)

if she's not excited about you coming to see her in her home city,
or odd about meeting her in mari..
move along.


you really don't have much of a problem..
the FAR bigger problem seems to be this :

Emotional investment in someone you haven't met?

likely the single biggest intial mistake to make in this venture.. hands down !!!!!!!!!!!!

quite a bit bigger than losing a couple hundred to  a possible scammer
 
The other is ignoring traits that bug you - the clingyness


if it was a girl from Dallas or LA , that you had never met,
texting you constantly..being posdsesive or clingy already--
would you be excited to fly in and meet her ? or apprehensive?

they arnt from another planet in the FSU.
So your expectations as far as dating etiqutte /behaviour should be the same..
 
(ok i admit some of them very well may be from another planet,but thats another thread entirely..lol)

[Jumper]

side note:
There are a few members with a decent bit of knowledge of Mari here..

if you do plan to meet her in kiev ,then travel to Mari-
 they might give you some ideas on where to go , what to do...

[Doll]

Why do you guys always want to see women in their cities?
I never did it for some serious reason. The girls have no chance to see your enviroment so you are even.

[steviej]

Why do you guys always want to see women in their cities?
I never did it for some serious reason. The girls have no chance to see your enviroment so you are even.

The first time I went to visit my now-wife, she wanted to meet in Moscow, which is not her home town. Why? Well, she just didn't want to parade a man into her extended family's life until she had a much better idea of where we really stood together. Her family is close, and nosey !! .. LOL .  And it would have been humiliating to her if we had met first in her home town, met the family, and I dumped her !! Her view was - let's see what we've really got before we start advertising it.

But really, it has to depend on not being blind as a bat about women and relationships. As I've explained in a couple T/Rs, I think we knew each other VERY well before my first trip. As KenC has said, it's not just the hours on the phone/SMS, but the quality and content. Are you jsut flirting, or are you really getting to know another human being. I think if you doubt the $200., your sense of knowing this woman may not be that high.

[Jumper]

Doll,

 a hypothetical question..
if *she* could get a tourist visa.. (some RW can and have)
wouldn't she likely meet him in his home city..?
wouldnt she feel more comfortable knowing she had met him around his friends, and family..?
and thats he is HAPPY to introduce her to them (if they hit it off )..?
in a city he knows well, and can show her around?
to see how he lives,, how his life is,,
its an old saying, but she can measure him by the company he keeps (his friends)

if he then balked,or acted strange at her coming there to see him ,
and insisted to go to another city instead- a  RW would find it strange ? yes?

Now of course she could come here, and meet him in another city,,
and they could have a good trip exploring a place that is new to both of them together..
and they discuss and plan it..
nothing wrong with that~!

but  it isnt as practical ..if she is coming her to meet the man, and trying to decide if they want to get involved with each other seriously, ultimately for marriage?
she'd get more pertinant information abouyt him, his lif eand his character in his home enviroment.

it's the same answer wether it is the man traveling or the woman?
it just makes more common sense to meet where they live in the context of these type of relationships,,(since they are heavily geared towards fairly quick decisions of  marriage ,or not,  and not *just for fun* dating)

as a simple added bonus-
 it avoids the whole scenerio he has gotten himself into...

if he was asking to meet her in her city..
(it makes basic sense afterall? unlike saying-
hey i'm coming to visit you. want to go somewhere else?  lol)

her reaction  answers a lot of "unknowns"
she is excited and happy, or she isnt.
either reaction, is very telling.
while most anyone could be excited to go visit Paris for example?


 Doll,
I'm just relaying what most feel is the best approach and the thoughts behind that..

for myself- I'm pretty much a risk taker!!
 so i certainly don't follow my own advice!

in the past -
i would have ,and did ,initially meet women in other than thier home cities ,
and sent money for them to travel there.(if i knew them well enough to meet them, then obviuosly i felt them trustworthy enough to send the travel expemses)
I was never burned, nor would i have worried about it if i had been..

 I do lots of things i wouldn't advise others to do though....lol


In the case of my wife, yes i met her in her home city.
if we had met elsewhere,, no big deal,,but the next visit would have been to her home city though...

[dispozo]

The girls have no chance to see your enviroment so you are even.

I think most of the guys would like to have their lady visit them too. To let them get a little taste of America life. But the rules for visiting a very tight for ladies from the FSU. I not saying impossible, but..........

[Mishenka]

Maybe you need to get to know her better first before meeting or sending money. I would buy her ticket with a credit card and not send money.  You will guarantee the price and flight. you will need her passport number and expiration date.  If you wait till she finally gets the cash from WU and buys it the price may increase or it could sell out.  By the way,, last time I sent WU this week they put a 2 day hold on cash funds, so, there must be some new rules on international Transfers? Some countries  like Uzbekistan will charge Customs duty of 10% now if you transfer to a bank account. This week was the first time I heard of this.

When I was making my first trip to meet Galina, she paid for my visa application and invitation letters at both the local department and international, She would not allow me to pay her back. She filled her house with food, decorated, bought new sofa and chair for me to sit in, invited the whole family to meet with her as she met me at the airport at 430 AM on my arrival. She had all her best things set out to show her family at their absolute best. I was impressed by her commitment and sincere heart.

I agree the emotional investment is premature and dangerous. You are setting yourself up. Meet first, spend time together. Take some time to get to know her, then if the feelings are mutual and there is love, you will know its right. RW do not take the words lightly, Your word is your promise, your bond. " I love you" is not spoken as freely like we say it in America. let this all sink in.
Mishenka

[Jumper]

steviej-
in essence i agree..  because if you communicate often, you have a feel of each other..and trust.

i can easily see your wifes rational!

but i can understand a mans reasoning to meet in the home city  as well.. if he doesnt know a RW ,  frankly,  there are more bad reasons why she wouldnt want to meet in her home city, than good ones

the other thing is that you and kenC as examples-
felt you knew the person you were visting well. thats great!

but many going to see each other for a first meeting are not at that point..
who is to say they need to be?
nor do they need any real trust, simply a belief that they would like to meet each other and find that prospect interesting.
its thier dime and thier time..
they may not care to develop anything before a face to face meeting..
and dont mind flying there on a whim..
( i might have done quite similar back in the day lol)


the bottom line for the OP here -
if he wasnt already emotionally invested,,
 if she doesnt show it wouldnt be a big deal either way..

the fact that it is,,  seperates him into that group that should likely have a lot more phone time and know her better..??
so there would either be no trip.. or no hesitation in sendin tth eplane fare?

Like i said i dont follow my own advice,,
i'd fly her there on a whim,,and if she dint show,,. no worries.
or i'd have planned to meet her in mari in the first place..

[steviej]

Like i said i dont follow my own advice,,
i'd fly her there on a whim,,and if she dint show,,. no worries.
or i'd have planned to meet her in mari in the first place..

... LOL  we have a lot of happily married "do as I say, not as I do" guys here on RWD !!   

It's not clear at all what this guy's feelings really are for this girl, or how well he thinks he really knows her. You know, one not ideal place to be is stuck half way between a good WOVO and WMVM ...

Still, I'm kinda with the guys saying, hey, what the hell is $200 in this business if you've already bought your plane ticket? I mean, the dude is already committed to going, right? And if she's a no-show, he should still try to chase some skirt while he's there. He could do that, right?

[Doll]

if *she* could get a tourist visa.. (some RW can and have)
wouldn't she likely meet him in his home city..?
wouldnt she feel more comfortable knowing she had met him around his friends, and family..?

She would but it does't work in our cases. So if people meet somewhere rather than their home places is it fair to both. Let's face the reality.

[Doll]

Maybe you need to get to know her better first before meeting or sending money. I would buy her ticket with a credit card and not send money.  You will guarantee the price and flight.

You need to learn to trust guys.
Lets look at this from another side: the woman is thinking of probably marrying you and you from the very beginning show your mistrust. Think of it.

[Shadow]

She would but it does't work in our cases. So if people meet somewhere rather than their home places is it fair to both. Let's face the reality.

Its fair when both are able to meet somewhere by their own means. I do not say that the man should not pay for the woman t meet him somewhere, but I say he should not have to.

[Doll]

Its fair when both are able to meet somewhere by their own means. I do not say that the man should not pay for the woman t meet him somewhere, but I say he should not have to.

once you guys go for another mentality you need to respect this mentality.
Consider and respect. RW don't think American standards. It is like eating out. Who pays?
For me that girl's request makes sense.
What does not is the AM's doubts over $200.

[Doll]

Actually this thread should belong to "Ask a Russian woman".
The facts that she doesn't want to meet him in her home city and that she asks for ticket money are reasonable. I explained why.

[Shadow]

once you guys go for another mentality you need to respect this mentality.
Consider and respect. RW don't think American standards. It is like eating out. Who pays?
For me that girl's request makes sense.
What does not is the AM's doubts over $200.

My mentality in this corresponds with that of my wife.
Guess not all RW think the same standards.

Eating out is not an issue. Going somewhere together is not an issue.
Meeting each other as strangers (except for mails/calls) means taking a risk.
Does it feel right if a woman does not want to meet in her home town to avoid the gossips, but requests money to do so ?
One side tells she does not believe enough to let him meet people she knows. The other asks him to trust she will show up.
Its not about the $200, if that is the guys problem he should forget about the meeting.

[Doll]

Guess not all RW think the same standards.

No but this one does.
Kuna you can argue forever- I've explained how it works for many RW me included.
Lets set one and the same standard: we then need to respect both sweating over $200 AND her requests.

[Doll]

Does it feel right if a woman does not want to meet in her home town to avoid the gossips, but requests money to do so ?

  It MAKES sense!
I was a mother of two sons, parents and friends around so I didn't want them to watch my dating. Nothing wrong in it.
Though being this kind of mother I didn't want to spend money. I did have it but I also had bills to pay. If a man wants to meet me- go ahead.
I explained all this to my AM and he didn't say a single word- just sent money.
Everything worked out for us and this trust was the beginning of a bigger trust.
We've been married for almost 7 years and trust is what our family is based on.
That summer he also paid my vacations and all the other expenses.He still does it EVEN if we don't go TOGETHER.

[Doll]

One side tells she does not believe enough to let him meet people she knows

IT IS ABOUT HER REPUTATION!