Heading to Dnepropetrovsk

[CCowboy]

On Thursday the 18th, I'll be leaving for Dnepropetrovsk.  I'll be gone for a month so I thought I'd post my preparations.  By the time I get back, I know I'm not going to have the patience to write a long and detailed trip report.  I'll have Internet in my apartment so I'm hoping to write my reports as events unfold.  So, here's how I've prepared.

As far as getting to Dnepropetrovsk, I'm fortunate to have enough FF miles that my flight is free.  I'm using a combination of USAir and Turkish Airways.  USAir will get me to JFK then Turkish Airways will fly me first to Istanbul and then on to Dnepropetrovsk.  One of the perks is on my return flight.  I'll be returning on October 21st.  When I arrive in Istanbul, it'll be 6PM and my connecting flight isn't until 10AM the following day.  Turkish Air will put me up for the night at no charge.  My only expense is the $20 for a visa.  It isn't the Four Seasons but the All Seasons.  The rooms have two single beds, a mini frig, AC, and a small TV.  The next morning is a complimentary buffet breakfast. 

My apartment is a 2 room in the very center of the city.  It is advertised with a couple of agencies for $75/night.  I'm paying $35/night, partly because I'm staying for a month and partly because I didn't arrange it through an agency.  The best price I could get through an agency was $55/night.  It was arranged by my translator who actually had two apartments for me to choose from.  BTW, she charges $10/hr for translations.     

As some of you know, I'm not very fond of agencies.  I have a profile on free sites such as http://love.online.ua, http://loveplanet.com.ua, and http://www.luckylovers.net.  I've had the best success with the love Online, which is also known as http://www.flirt.com.ua.  I first used it in Kharkov last year and it was easy to set up meeting in 1-2 days.  I made a trip to Sevastopol in April and mainly relied on these sites.  I also learned an important lesson.  My approach was to contact all women who interested me and then narrow it down to the 10 are so who interested me most.  While is sounds reasonable, I ran into a problem.  Many of the girls/women are friends with other girls/women on the sites.  In a few instances, I was corresponding with women who were friends who were comparing notes.  They didn't like the idea I was corresponding with several women and decided I wasn't serious.  I also learned that some of the women I was corresponding with were pro-daters.  That's why it's best to remember writing is one thing but meeting is often quite different.  So for this trip I went through the 1800+ profiles in the age bracket I was searching and chose about 40 women who interested me.  Of those, I've been corresponding with just 2 women.  I'm not a WOVO person but I think a guy can also correspond/meet too many women.  Based on our correspondence, I don't think I'll need to look beyond the two women, but you never know.  I'll be there long enough that I'll have plenty of other women to meet if necessary and I can even place a personal ad.  My translator worked for 5 Star Introductions and briefly for Cindy Agency.  Based on her few comments, I doubt I'll be using any agency services.

So, 5 more days and I'm on my way...Robert     

[smilingjake]

Robert  ----

Have a great trip. I am envious, a month in Dnepropetrovsk !!!!

I just returned from a week in the city and absolutely loved it. The lady I was with went above the call of duty to make sure I had an enjoyable trip.  I f you like history and such check out the museum which houses Sputnik and many other missles and rockets. I believe you have to make arrangements to tour the exhibits.

I also believe the price of the city buses was rising to 2grv. from 1.5 grv. I am looking forward to reading about your experiences and best of luck.

Jake

[CCowboy]

Hello everyone from RWD,

My travel from Wilmington, NC to Dnepropetrovsk went without a hiccup.  The only nervous moment was landing in Dnepropetrovsk.  When we left Istanbul it was clear and beautiful.  When we arrived in Dnepropetrovsk, just the opposite, cloudy and gloomy.  The ceiling was so low that it seemed we were in the clouds forever.  Finally, I saw land and less than 15 seconds later we were on the ground.  Too close to feel comfortable.  Upon arrival, the first stop was passport control.  That was a reminder I was in Ukraine because of the absense of the entry forms on the tables.  We stood in line and were then handed a form, told to fill it out, and then stand in line again.  Finally one of the passport people gave a handfull of the forms to a passenger and that speeded up the processing.  Of couse, it was everyone for himself as far as getting a form.  Lots of pushing and shoving.  Once I got through passport control, the rest was easy.  Collected my checked bag, went through the green "nothing to declare" line, and saw  Artur and his father waitng for me.  Artur and his family have a business called "Dneprapartments".  I see he's already introduced himself to the group so I won't say much more.  However, I did have somewhat of a crisis concerning my apartment before I left.  I had arranged my apartment through my translator, Armina, a few weeks ago.  I'll write more about Armina on another report.  She had found 3 different apartments for me and I had chosen a 2 room in the city center for $1100/month.  Then shortly before my departure, Armina informed me that the tenants decided to stay another month, so it wasn't available.  She then found me another 2 room apartment for the same price.  Then Armina was told the owner decided to rent it to someone else.  Armina is sure it was for a higher price.  Where's the loyalty and commitment?  Armin said the same thing has even happened to her while on vacation.  Anyway, two days before my departure, I had no place to stay.  I had previously been in contact with Artur and he had an apartment available.  I think the main reason I was having a problem is my stay is for 33 days.  Not too many apartments available 3 days before my arrival.  Anyway, Armina met with Artur and paid the deposit to secure the apartment.  When I arrived at the apartment, I was a little disappointed.  In previous trips, I've had 2 room apartments that I paid from $30 to $35 per day based on a month stay.  Now I'm paying the same for a one room.  It's in a great location just 1 1/2 blocks from Karl Marx and not more than a 10 minute walk to MOST, which is Dnepropetrovsk's most modern shopping area with a large supermarket downstairs.  The apartment is very basic with satellite TV, foldout sofa and a second foldout sofa, kitchen with microwave, washing machine.  It really has the main essentials but small and just a basic apartment.    Both Armina and I had checked with a few other agencies and most were charging $45-$55 for 1 room apartments in the city center...on a monthly rental.  I had done much better in Kharkov and my recent trip to Sevastopol, but this is Dnepropetrovsk.  But with prices rising and the fall of the dollar, I expected to pay more.  I will say in all honesty that Artur has been very professional with me.  He does know the apartment business, what his competition charges, and offers his apartments at a fair and competitive price, and much better than a hotel room.  I really have nothing negative to say about Artur and the way he conducts his business.  One added benefit is that he has 3G modems that will allow you to use your laptop with Internet access from your apartment or anyplace else.  He can fill you in on that if you're interested.

So, now I've just completed my first full day, still have a little jetlag so I'm off to bed.  I did have one meeting today with another one scheduled for tomorrow.  These are the two main ladies I came to meet.  After tomorrow's meeting I'll write about both women as well as tell you more about Armina.

From Dnepropetrovsk, Robert     

[smilingjake]

Hi Robert ---

Reading about your trip to Dnepropetrovsk trip is causing me to have flashbacks. I'm familiar with the area you are referring to concerning the mall and t he supermarket in the lower level. I bought groceries and wine in the supermarket downstairs.

Try the cafe when you go up the escalator to the second floor, its to the right. The food there was excellent and reasonably priced for the quality. We ate there a couple of  times. I really  enjoyed the soups. It tends to be crowded during the lunch hour, however if you can find a table, its worh it in my opinion.

Jake

[Kuna]

Try the cafe when you go up the escalator to the second floor, its to the right. The food there was excellent and reasonably priced for the quality. We ate there a couple of  times. I really  enjoyed the soups. It tends to be crowded during the lunch hour, however if you can find a table, its worh it in my opinion.

Jake,

I think you're referring to Pozatta Hutta - and if so, I thoroughly agree.  My wife and I were just talking today about our trip back next year and how much both of us are looking forward to lunching at Pozatta Hutta.

The coffee shop down in the atrium of MOST (MOCT) also served a good coffee from memory...  and up the escalators and around to the left there's a restaurant named Portofino which was excellent. Try some local beer with some salty fish... Mmmmmmm

The best restaurant we ate in though was, without a doubt, Pastoral.  Sorry I don't have the address but the map coords are  48°27'50.83"N   35° 2'54.73"E.  Maybe you can use Google Earth or something to find it.  (If your walking away from the river at the top of European Square turn left for a block or so.  It's a small restaurant set just above street level and is well worth seeking out.)

 :-P~~~

[CCowboy]

Well, it’s a somewhat gloomy and rainy day in Dnepropetrovsk.  I’ve been told that before I arrived, the weather was nice and warm.  I hope this is not an omen to determine the rest of my tip. 

On Saturday, I had my 4 hour meeting with Irina followed up with a 5 hour meeting with Angela.  Even after exchanging 200+ messages and 600+ messages respectively, it’s still too soon to tell if a serious relationship is in the future with either.  The corresponding really helped in knowing each other better, but relying on Internet translation leaves a lot to be desired.  From using a professional translator, we learned that a lot of our messages were misunderstood.  It’s best to write about simple things and leave the more complex subjects to a professional.  I need to say a few words about Armina.  She is awesome!!  I’ve had quite a few translators but none better.  In fact, she’s the best.  She goes beyond just translating.  Upon arrival, she met me at my apartment to make sure I had everything I needed.  She took me to MOCT to buy a few necessities.  She spent about two hours with me getting to know me better, learning about the women I was planning to meet, and going over our plans…all off the clock.  After each meeting, she spent and 1-2 hours with me discussing the meeting and her impression of each woman and the woman’s impression of me.  She followed up and called each woman the next day just to get feedback.  Again, off the clock.  This evening I’ll be meeting Angela a second time and plan to go solo, but Armina let me know she’s available if I need her.  Tomorrow I also have plans to meet with Irina for a second time.  Armina let me know her schedule and when she won’t be available, but she does have a substitute if needed.  She is as professional as a translator can be.  I’ve told her about RWD and encouraged her to introduce herself.  When she does, be sure to make her feel welcomed.  Armina can be contacted at ukpearls@gmail.com

Thanks for the restaurant suggestions.  Armina took me to an Italian place that was quiet and great for a meeting.  There is also a place upstairs in MOCT on the opposite side of the food court and quiet.  It also features Italian.  I can’t vouch for the food because I couldn’t get the women to order anything other than tea.  Service was great at both places.

I’ll post more in a few days.  From Dnepropetrovsk, Robert 

[Gator]

Hi Robert,

Have fun in a wonderful city.

When there I ate at a little cafe named Luna (moon) across the street from the building housing Majestic Agency, one block from Karl Marx.

For something more grand, yet not extravagant, I dined at the Safari at the top of the hill.  Delightful trolley ride to the restaurant where one can sit outside on a tree-lined street.

I realize you are trying to avoid agencies; however, Cindy and Majestic agencies are good for quickly fixing you up with a fresh face if your list of candidates comes up short or you have some dead time.  As with anything, you need to control the situation and not be controlled.  Once you pay the $25 (2006) to meet a woman, the agency is out of the loop.

[CCowboy]

Thanks Gator,

On a previous trip I worked with both Cindy Agency and Majestic Ladies.  Right now I have my hands full but I'll keep them in mind.  Also, 5 Star Introductions has been recommended.  Armina, my translator, knows the agency business very well and can advise me if needed.  I'll post the latest in a few days...Robert

[Artur]

Hi Robert, nice to meet you here) Thank you for advisisng this nice forum. Actually I haven't made a friends with anybody, but I see that there are a lot of interesting people. I hope you are well) Cafe "Pasteral" is situated downstairs the street your apartment situated, on the other side of Karl Marks prospect. I can add that this caffe is really one of the best in our city.
Artur

[CCowboy]

It’s Friday morning and I’m completing my first week in Dnepropetrovsk.  It’s been an interesting first week.  The weather hasn’t been the greatest with most days being cloudy and one day with light rain all day.  But today the sun is out.  I’ll soon find out how long that will last.

As I wrote in my beginning report, I came to mainly visit two women I’d be corresponding with over the last 2-3 months.  Before I arrived, I had a good feeling which one would be the better match for me, and I was right.  I met with both Angela and Irina twice before making a decision to meet with just one of them in the future.  It wasn’t an easy decision because both women are very sincere and I liked both of them.  But liking is not the same as the potential to fall in love.  Physical attraction was less of a factor but chemistry and other factors were.  I asked both some key questions and based on their answers, I decided which one had the potential for the happiest marriage.  It sort of boils down to the final rose ceremony without having to eliminate 23 other women to get to this point.  My choice was Irina and she seems to have chosen me as well.  We’ve seen each other just 3 times but 3 months of corresponding really helps in getting to know someone.  I’m sure neither of us is ready to commit to marriage but we’re committed to being exclusive with each other.  I still have another 26 days to go, so that may change.  For someone who has predominately met women through agencies, this was a very nice change for me.  Irina has never been with an agency.  It has been only since April that she considered marriage with a foreign man.  I’m the first foreign met she’s met.  Part was due to the successful and happy marriage of her former sister-in-law who lives in Montana.  She was visiting and helped Irina set up her profiles, all on free sites.  The other part was due to her 21 year old daughter who felt mom was too young and too pretty to be alone and wanted her to be happily married.  Irina is blonde, 40, 5’ 8.5” and takes very good care of herself… and it shows.  She doesn’t smoke, doesn’t drink hard liquor, will drink alcohol free beer, and occasional small glass of red wine for celebrations.  She only eats healthy and natural foods and informed me she doesn’t eat ice cream or chocolate, two of my downfalls.  We do have a common love of cheese so I think I’ll still be able to have my veggie pizza.  Our next meeting will be with Armina and will give us both a chance to ask more serious questions.  At this point I’d be very surprised if my search isn’t finally over.

A little more about the Dnepropetrovsk apartment situation.  There seems to be a shortage of available accommodations.  Being the second largest city in Ukraine, the demand stays high.  Therefore, the prices stay high.  Most apartments rarely stay vacant long so the discounts for longer stays are small.  One room apartments are usually in the $45-55/day range and two room apartments will be in the $60-80/day range.  The best price I could get from an agency for a nice 2-room for my 33 day stay was $56/day, down from $80/day/.  Armina had found two other 2 room apartments for me but with one, the renters decided to stay longer.  With the other, there was a better offer so my reservation was cancelled.  I’ve learned that it is not uncommon and has happened to others before.

It looks like the dollar has recovered somewhat as far as exchanging for the grivna.  Last Friday I exchanged at 4.95.  Yesterday is was 5.03 at the same exchange place.  Hopefully it will remain steady for the remained of my stay.  That’s all for now.  I’ll be posting more early next week.

Want to receive some heart felt blessings?  You'll find little old ladies usually in their 70's or older sitting along sidewalks with their little cups.  Usually they receive just a few kopeks.  I saw one lady trying to count the coins with her shaking hands.  I gave her a 5 grivna note.  I was blessed, crossed, and though I didn't understand her words, I could see the happiness on her face.  That's enough so she can have something to eat for the evening.

From Dnepropetrovsk, Robert

[Gator]

informed me she doesn’t eat ice cream or chocolate

RED FLAG, CCowboy!  Be careful.  Irina is not Slavic.  She is some impostor.  You need to do an extensive background investigation.  LOL

Seriously, I am pleased that you are settling in on one.  And you still have 26 days left.  It must be difficult to juggle two women in the same city at the same time.  Even though I am a WMVM man, I always had difficulty with concurrent dating.

What is your heart telling you?  I assume that you are a little older than the average Joe, and you know that the heart does not beat like that of the "crazy love" days when a teenager.  Yet, it needs to be speaking to you sometime. 

[CCowboy]

Thanks for the heads up gator   Actually, their schedules made it quite easy for me to meet with both of them.  Fortunately for me, after two meeting with each, I decided not to juggle and just see Irina.  Armina has been great as my go between.  She made sure Angela didn't feel rejected and assured Irina I wasn't here for a 33 day romance tour.  So far, everything has worked out well.  I going to keep from being distracted by not meeting any other women, even on days that Irina is not able to meet with me.  Well, probably be able to see each other 4 days a week.  That way well both have our breathing room and be able to access everything as it unfolds.  Neither one of us is the pushy, demanding type.  f course, all that could change when she's stateside

[Jack]

  I think you're referring to Pozatta Hutta - and if so, I thoroughly agree.  My wife and I were just talking today about our trip back next year and how much both of us are looking forward to lunching at Pozatta Hutta. 

Kuna, their are now three Pozatta Hutta's in Dnepropetrovsk. One next to the train station, one on Karl Marx and the one in the Moct mall.

Both Armina and I had checked with a few other agencies and most were charging $45-$55 for 1 room apartments in the city center...on a monthly rental. 

Robert, you must be dealing with flat rental agencies.   

Were getting daily rates for nice two room flats at between $30 and $35 a day based on a months rental. These flats are either on or within a 6 minute walk of Karl Marx.   As in Kiev, in Dnepropetrovsk we deal directly with the flat owners.  I think if Armina will deal directly with the flat owners you will get better pricing.

If you have not already committed to a flat for the month and would consider working with a dreaded agency, PM me. Had one client who checked out of a wonderful flat two days ago that I think we can get in time for you to reserve for a months stay.  Cost per day will be about $31. Fast internet, "sputnik" TV, newly refurbished bathroom with jacuzzi, second floor two room flat two minutes walk from Karl Marx.

  Well, it’s a somewhat gloomy and rainy day in Dnepropetrovsk.  I’ve been told that before I arrived, the weather was nice and warm.   

The weather was warm and nice!   Robert, who told you this?  Although not in Dneprop now I was also in Dneprop several days when you were, to bad we couldn't have met up, I always buy the first three rounds.  Starting with the 15th of September their has been constant rain, dark clouds, it has been cold. I have never seen a September like this in Ukraine before. Only on the day you arrived, Saturday the 20th, was their sun, which made a LOT of people who had weddings this day happy. It was one constant wedding group after another taking photos in the park next to the river.

By any chance Robert were you able to get to the beauty contest Saturday night at the stage set up next to the river?

  I realize you are trying to avoid agencies; however, Cindy and Majestic agencies are good for quickly fixing you up with a fresh face if your list of candidates comes up short or you have some dead time. 

Gator, I think you must be referring to the old Majestic when Sasha (Alex) was owner of agency. I enjoyed working with Alex, he was a class act.  Alex got out of the business 1.5 years ago and gave the business to his ex-wife. Since then my experience and that of our clients have all been down hill.  Last spring we caught Majestic writing letters for two women who had not been with the agency for three years.

  A little more about the Dnepropetrovsk apartment situation.  There seems to be a shortage of available accommodations.  Being the second largest city in Ukraine, 

Robert, you sure Dnepropetrovsk is the second largest city in Ukraine? 

A few months ago Kharkov had almost 1.5 million people (1,460,500), Dnepropetrovsk had 1.1 million (1,076,600).  The rural area of Kharkov has 1,674,800 people while the rural area of Dnepropetrovsk has 1,465,500.

[CCowboy]

Hi Jack,

Yes, I wound up dealing with a flat rental agency.  Armina had two separate 2 room flats for me directly from owners for $35/day on a monthly rental.  On the first, the present renters decided to stay an extra month.  On the second, the owner didn't honor our agreement when she got a better offer.  So, I was in a real bind just 3 days before my departure.  Both Armina and I checked with other rental agencies.  I'm just a block off Karl Marx near Lenin Monument so the location is great.  I'm committed and paid for the month, but thanks.  I can survive!!!!

Weather has been pretty nice the last 3 days.  Before that it was cloudy with one day of steady rain.  Yes, the 20th was a beautiful day as the sun brightly shined through my window early in the morning to rmind me.   I did got towards the beauty contest but it was packed.  I also had an evening meeting and I didn't think it would be a good idea to take my attention away from her on our first meeting.

I met one woman through Majestic Ladies when I was here previously in December 2006.  It doesn't seem their website has been updated since then.  Also, there was no responce to several e-mails.  I even set up a new profile, sent an e-mail...still no response.  Crossed them off my back-up list.

I've been corrected about Dnepropetrovsk being the second largest city.  It was told to me when explaining the prices of apartments and the difficulty in getting discounts..again from flat rental agencies.  I've always been able to get 2 room westernized flats that normally rent for $50-60/day at $30-35/day on a monthly rental.  In Sevastopol my living room was larger than than this entire 1 room flat, and I was one of the first renters of a newly remodeled 3 room flat that was converted to a 2 room flat.  It was awesome.  Cost: $900 for the month.  I've also had very nice flats in my visits to Kharkov.

I'm here until 21 October, so if you're down this way, give a holler.  I haven't even had a beer yet so that would be a good reason.  I'm a lightweight

Robert



 

[Donhollio]

If your looking for a 2 room nice place, call Alla cell # 8 067 750 94 44  Or 36 07 98  & 798 23 15 
I have stayed at her place up at the top of Carl Marx,with ease to the heart of the city.   
 You can also call the interpreter  Larissa , she has extensive experience in this venture.

http://www.interpreterinukraine.com/

[CCowboy]

Thanks,

I was actually in contact with Larrisa about a month before my arrival.  She had just one apartment to recommend and that was $70/day on a monthly rental.  Also she was going to be out of town on business for most of my stay.  I've been extremely pleased with Armina as my translator.  Even when we don't have a meeting planned, she ususally calls me daily to make sure everything is OK and to keep me informed of anything else important.  If I needed her help on a future trip, I wouldn't use anyone else.

[Armina]

Robert, thank you very much for your nice comments regarding my services, I appreciate it. It goes  beyond usual work for me, I enjoy your company and value your ideas, always a pleasure to work with you and I am very happy you and Irina have found each other. My best wishes, fingers crossed for you, guys!

[CCowboy]

Hello Everyone,

It's been a while since I last posted so I thought I'd update my report.  A lot has happened.  Most important, Irina and I are still going strong.  In fact, Tuesday evening we will be meeting with Armina in what I'll call our Moment Of Truth.  Since my last update, I have met Irina's, mother, her sister, her brother-in-law, her sister-in-law, and most important, her 20 y.o. daughter, Olya.  Her sister, Valentina, can speak a little English so she served as our "interpreter".  Valentina is a teacher and we first met at her school and saw a talent show.  Next we went to her classroom with her 10-11 y.o. pupils, several who were learning English.  So, for about 15 minutes, I was the "show and tell" for the moment.  The next day we went to Valentina's home to meet the rest of the family except for Olya, who was still at her university.  We had cake, beverages and some chat, looked at photos, and saw a slide show of Irina's sister-in-law, Oksana, who now lives in Montana with her husband and son and awaiting their new arrival.  Oksana was instrumental in getting Irina interested in marriage with a foreign man.  

I finally met Olya on the day when we planned a day trip to Zaporozhya(sp).  We went to a rural area where there is a Cossack village and they put on a show that features Cossack fighting and horsemanship skills.  I'm sure glad I don't have one of their hairdos!!  Anyway, the show was very entertaining and we had a nice traditional lunch.  Also attending the show was a tour of older American tourists.  They were on a cruise from Kiev to Yalta.  It was a nice chance for me to have some real English dialogue.  Ironically, the first man I talked to was from Minnesota, where I was born.  Back to Olya.  As they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  Irina and Olya look more like sisters than mother and daughter.  Both are about 5'9", slim, blonde, and attract a lot of attention.  I attracted a lot of attention as we all walked arm in arm down the street.  Believe me, I wasn't the source of the attention.  Afterwards we went to a store that carries only men's and women's leather jackets and coats.  From what I understand, the family had pooled their money to treat Olya to a new leather jacket.  After looking over the selections, she settled on two different jackets.  One looked like it would be warmer and since winter is approaching, I thought it was the logical choice.  The other was much thinner and looked like it would be worn for a dressy special ocassion.  Guess which one she chose?  A good lesson for me.  Never get involved in choosing a woman's clothes.  

Next on the agenda was a trip to visit Irina's city the next day.  All our meetings have taken place in Dnepropetrovsk but she actually lives in nearby Dneprodezhinck(sp), that's about an hour by bus.  With the cost of fuel, it's amazing that it's only a $2 fare.  Irina lives in a large complex of 10 story apartment buildings.  Her apartment is a 2 room located on the second floor.  As it is with most apartments, the inside is in sharp contrast to the outside appearance.  The apartment is medium in size but it does not feel cramped.  Everything has it's proper place.  Shortly after arriving, Irina got busy preparing a meal.  Both Olya and I were kicked out of the kitchen with the door closed.  Later, we were summoned for dinner.  Once I saw all that she prepared, I was wondering what small army was going to join us.  There were two main dishes, a large pot of borsch, salad, bread, cheese, and far more than we could eat in 3 meals.  After eating more than I should, it was suggested we go far a walk.  I thought that was a good idea.  We went through a forest and walked and walked until we came to a lake where men were fishing.  One man had about 20 fish not more than 3 inches long.  I didn't know if they were bait for larger fish or actually going to be eaten.  By the time we got back to the apartment, it turned into a 3 hour walk.  It was about 6PM and Irina suggested I lay down for a short rest.  I didn't have to be coaxed.  My short rest turned into a much needed 13 hour sleep.  I stayed two days at the apartment but then it was time for Irina to return to work.  After ME cooking a veggie and cheese omlette for us, I was put on a bus and headed back to my apartment in Dnepropetrovsk.  Irina was worried I wouldn't be able to find my way back from the bus station, so as expected, I received a call from her making sure I was in my "doma" OK.

Now I have a few days alone to think about all that's happened during my first 23 days.  After corresponding for 3 months, exchanging nearly 250 messages, finally meeting, and now seeing each other exclusively for nearly 3 weeks, it's decision time.  Some people might think another trip is in order before making a decision on marriage.  Logically, I agree and maybe if this was my first trip, it's exactly what I would do.  But after making more trips than I ever thought I'd make and meeting 150+ women, I think I have a pretty good idea when everything simply feels right.  Some of my friends have seen photos of us together and their advice is: "What are you waiting for???"  Armina has been great not only during our meetings when she's translated, but she and Irina have also had several girl to girl conversations.  I'm sure that some things are confidential, but Armina has let me know Irina is ga-ga for me and I've been given the stamp of approval by her entire family.  I don't think another trip is going to reveal anything new.  Having been through this once before when Club Prima and snail mail was the way to meet a woman from the FSU, I know many of the adjustments we're both going to face.  Still, I've been deep in thought.  I've had a few close relationships in the past but none reached the K-1 stage.  So, I decided to rely on our great thinker, Ben Franklin, and use his plus/minus approach.  I started with the pluses but my list got too long to post so I decided to post the minuses.  My first concern is Irina's lack of English.  Other than her sister, I don't think anyone in her family has studied English.  It's pretty scary when my "Russian" is better than Irina's English.  Another concern is Irina is one of the most touchy feely women I've ever met:-)  No matter where we are, Irina has this need for body contact.  She's not an insecure clinger, just a woman who needs to touch and feel.  Sometimes it's almost to the point of being motherly.  It's something I'm certainly not use to but I'm sure I'll adjust.  Also, I need to explain to Irina that I can't eat 4-5 meals a day, especially the size of her meals.  Actually I can but I don't think she'll like seeing me 20-25 kilos heavier.  Let's see, there must be some other concerns.  Yes, I remember: Irina is a natural blonde with brown eyes.  For blondes, I've always had a preference for blue, green, or grey eyes.  BTW, Olya has great grey eyes.  I can see multi-colored contacts in the future!!  I'm sure there are one or two other superficial concerns but I can't think of any at the moment.  I sent these concerns to some of my friends and a couple of them actually thought I was serious.  Just joking in a superficial way!!!  

The main purpose of our meeting with Armina is to give us both a chance to ask any lingering questions and for Irina to understand what needs to take place during the K-1 process.  I also want to discuss further Olya's needs while she continues her university education.  So, at this point, I think a marriage proposal is on the horizon.  I just received my morning kisses by text (SMS) from Irina.  She never misses a day if she's not with me to deliver them personally.  In the next 3-4 days I'll follow up with the results of our meeting.  

From Denepropetrovsk, Robert      

[smilingjake]

Hi Robert ----

It certainly sounds as if you are having a great trip. I also went to that Cossack show. Those guys sure can ride a horse and crack a whip. I have a good picture of Tatyana and myself with the Cossack guy who was running the show. There were actually tourist buses with people in attendance when we went.

I will be sending you a private message with required information in the hope you can send some roses in my name to Tatyana.

I'm really happy for you Robert with the fact that you have found your hearts desire.

Jake

[Pike]

Robert, not to be negative, but I think the three things you mentioned are actually pretty important.

First is the lack of English.  As a long time member of several boards you know the words that have been spoken often.  If the two of you cannot communicate in the same language (without an interpreter), you really don't know how the other person is feeling.  I'm sure Armina is great, but everything that you and your gal say is filtered through her.  Subtle spins here and there can disguise the real feelings.  In truth, you really know nothing about what your gal thinks about many things.

Second, it will be a very difficult life for two people who have vastly different experiences and desired re the touching ideas.  I am a touchy feely guy and like a lot of physical manual contact from the woman; but this repels others.  I feel very 'out in the cold' with a distant type of woman; but others are happy with that.  It all comes down to how much Scandinavian blood you have vs Italian or Russian blood.

Third, the eye color thing I guess can be solved with the colored contacts . . . presuming she even needs eye correction.  But won't this be a real turn-off for her if you suggest it, as it indicates you don't care for her eye color?  Personally, I am indifferent to hair colors, but there is something about some eye colors that really turns me off.  I find I just can't look into them much, which is something that is great to do.

[topofthekey]

I'll leave the eye color thing alone. Doesn't sound like he had a real serious complaint about it (more of a joking complaint). but thats all about whats important to him.

as for the lack of English thing... what can you really expect? Better exclude her because she dont speak no American? Sounds like he has a good interpeter and if he gets engaged he can get her some English lessons. Thats why I am a fan of the K1 visa. She can study english and then come over to his home country and try things out without being hitched.

[groovlstk]

Thats why I am a fan of the K1 visa. She can study english and then come over to his home country and try things out without being hitched.

Very bad idea. The reason you're given 90 days to marry on a K1 is to prepare for the wedding. JB has said it better than I ever could, but there are also other very good reasons not to use this time as a trial period. When your fiancee arrives she's going to be homesick and bombarded with stimuli, dependent upon you in ways she never dreamed - chances are that her demeanor, mood, morale, and day-to-day attitude will be very different than what is normal for her (and what she'll inevitably swing back to in a year or two when her adjustment is complete).

[ScottinCrimea]

I agree.  You have to have a pretty strong level of commitment BEFORE you bring her over and experience all of the issues that come up with a move from home and a huge change in culture.  I think this is absolutely the worst situation in which to be making the decision as to whether you are compatible and if it is going to work.  Neither of you are really going to see the best of each other.  Add to this the pressure of making a decision (one that should have been made long before) within a 90 day window and it's easy to see why so many k-1's go bottom up.

[CCowboy]

Thanks for the comments.  I guess I should have included more smiley faces to indicate that other than the English situation, I was joking.  I'm also a very touchy feely person but Irina even has me beat in that department.  Maybe if I added that she doesn't like raisins so now I have to alter my carrot cake recipe, you'd know I was trying to show a little humor.  I agree that communcation is most import.  But even more important is a woman's temperment.  I had a very good sense about Irina's temperment from our three months of corresponding, as well as her seriousness for marriage.  In fact, between her photos and her messages, I thought her personality was too serious and quiet for me.  But we did not communicate as a penpals.  We both asked and answered many very important questions.  I tried to find out about the romantic side of her, not sexual attitudes .
Irina let me know she was a romantic woman who likes flowers, candlelight dinners, and long walks.  Never once did she begin a message "Dear Robert" or "Dearest Robert" like I've received from so many other women.  It was always "Good Day" followed by her message.  Since this was a new experience for Irina and a much too long experience for me, I asked questions about family, her daughter's education, and other questions to see if there were any red flags or concerns.  This past year I met with a woman on 4 separate trips, the last to be with her exclusively, and was seriously ready to go for it with her.  But because of family responsibilities, her response to marriage was "I can't say yes and I can't say no.  So with Irina, I probed to be sure there would be nothing to hold her back should we decide on marriage.  I came to Dnepropetrovsk to meet two women with whom I had extensive correspondence.  From her photos, I was more attracted to the other woman, but I had a better feeling about Irina as a marriage partner.  I also had several other women to meet if things didn't work out with either woman.  I never needed to meet the other women.  After two meeting with each woman, I knew that Irina was everything and more than I expected.  I think Irina felt the same about me.  Had she not felt we had great potential for marriage, she would have stopped seeing me after the first two meetings.  She had a lot more men interested in her than just me.  I'll admit that after just a few meetings I felt we were right for each other and several times I've felt like proposing.  But being here for more than a month has allowed us to focus on just enjoying being together and understanding each other better.  Irina has a "givers" personality and it comes naturally with her.  She is this way with her family, her friends, and with me.  She's not on good behavior trying to make a good impression.  Having married a woman from Ukraine in 1995 with little more than a "hope for the best" attitude, I've been much more cautious this time around.  My caution has probably let a couple of women slip through my fingers who would have been wonderful wives.  But looking back, I'm happy things didn't work out because Irina and I are really great together.

So, if things go as anticipated, when I leave, Irina will begin English lessons.  I've already bought her the latest version of Abbyy Lingvo for her computer to help her study.  I'll be returning sometime between the end of December and the middle of January for another 3-4 weeks.  Then depending on the K-1 progress, I'll return again in the spring.  As Scott pointed out, the decision to marry should be made long before the K-1 is approved and when she comes to the U.S., it'll be to make plans for marriage.  Another thing in our favor, neither of us has the luxury to experiment and if things don't work out we can start over.  Very few women over 40 find a foreign man interested in marriage with them and me being 60+, not many men my age are even pursuing marriage with a foreign woman.  We are both realistic and realize we have the opportunity for something very special.  I have a few other comments but I'll wait until after tomorrow nights meeting.

From Dnepropetrovsk, Robert    

[UTRO]

You've been persuing this for a long time Robert and I wish you all the best!! There's a smiley for ya'!
I have just spent the past year courting my Lana... 2200 emails, 2500 texts, 500hrs of phone calls and 5 visits later, we were Engaged this week.
Groovlstk, luckily for Americans' there is a K-1... for exactly what 'topofthekey' finds it necessary for. Not what it's meant for, but certainly a 90 day 'preparing for marriage' Visa, which gives Fiancee's from the FSU a fair(er) advantage to see what she may have blindly gotten herself into. Ditto for the Fiance!