If I had it to do all over again, I dont think I would even leave the airport in

[groovlstk]

Seems that women from Belarus, Uzbekistan, and Moldova are more serious about having a life abroad.  I'm not saying there are no women in the Ukraine or Russia. 

You might also substitute the word "desperate" for "serious."

[Gator]

This place has changed so much in the 7 years I've been coming here.

And so have you, Papa Greg.  Haven't we all changed!!!   

Have fun somehow in Ukraine.  If you go to Turkey, you will see why it is called the Russian Riviera.  My last trip there was at one of the best hotels with many Europeans, yet Russians and Ukrainians were still in the majority.  Many store signs are in Russian.

I met a couple from Germany at the bar who had never encountered Russians before.  I mentioned that to stay at this hotel the Russian guests were among the more successful Russians.  He responded critically, "It does not show in anything."

[Enot]

Odd, I managed to find a wife in a Russian city 

As I said, there are good women in these cities but you will increase your odds if you look elsewhere.

[Enot]

You might also substitute the word "desperate" for "serious."

I wouldn't.  It is a myth that FSU women are desperate to leave their country.  For most of us this myth has gone by the way-side as has the term, "mail-order-bride.  Both are insults to these women. 

[ScottinCrimea]

I wouldn't.  It is a myth that FSU women are desperate to leave their country.  For most of us this myth has gone by the way-side as has the term, "mail-order-bride.  Both are insults to these women. 

Maybe you should preface your statements with, "From my experience and based on the women that I have met, it is my belief that..."

[Turboguy]

As far as the term Mail Order Brides goes I saw an interesting post over on Olga's place showing the results of a Goggle search if you type in the term "Mail Order Brides".   The companies that come up in the search are the low life's of the industry. 

Personally Errr,  From my experience and based on the women that I have met, it is my belief that the improving economy of Russia and Ukraine is overplayed as a reason the whole International marriage thingy is on it's way into the toilet. 

Yes, people who live in the major cities have seen an improvement in their earnings which of course has been coupled with an even larger increase in the cost of housing in particular and living in general.  The wages in the smaller cities have not increased as fast even though the housing prices have increased but not as badly. 

Personally I think there are more reasons for a woman to want to leave the FSU than earnings and lifestyle.  One of the reasons I have heard a lot is the fear of growing old in Russia.   The pensions there suck and being a pensioner in Russia can be a really miserable way of life.   I think for a woman with a son helping him to avoid military service is another motivation as is the greater potential for the child of any FSU woman with a child.  I think seeing all the graft and corruption in the government in the way the government operates is another motive.   I have heard the term "lawless" used by some FSU women to describe the situation there.  Just think about the doors there.   Here we have doors to keep the weather out.  There they have triple doors with 6 locks to keep the crooks out.   I can recall when my first fiancee returned to Russia she went to the train station and set her bags down to buy a train ticket.   When she turned around her bags were gone.  Her comment was that after 90 days in the USA she forgot she was back in Russia.   There is a lot more crime in the FSU.  If you have a business in the FSU and it becomes highly successful the odds of you keeping it are pretty low.  Someone will come along and think you have a good thing going and it will be theirs. 

I will agree that things have changed a lot there.  I think the days of women being desperate to leave are gone but do we really want a desperate women?   There are still lots of reasons for a woman to want to move here.

As far as the "If I had it to do over again....."  This can be a discouraging process.  I made many trips with high hopes that ended up being a bust.  I actually hung up the search for a year and a half after some bad trips to meet women who I thought would turn out to be "the one".   The cold hard reality of it is that there are still lots of guys going and coming back with his future bride.  In my case had there been an RWD in the early days of my search my search would have ended much quicker.l  I am totally happy that things ended up the way they did.  Even though a lot of my early (pre-RWD) trips were a bust they were still an adventure and I met some great people and had experiences I will never forget.  One of my biggest problems in the mid part of my search was relying on big agency tours. 

The cold hard reality of it is if you belong to RWD and you make 20 trips that are a bust and think it can't be done then the problem is not the changes in the economy of the country.  The problem is within yourself.  This is not for everyone and perhaps it is not for you.

[OlgaH]

Seems that women from... Moldova are more serious about having a life abroad.

I guess so...

Human trafficking is now worse than ever in Moldova, Europe's poorest and most corrupt country.
http://www.tiraspoltimes.com/news/moldova_on_human_trafficking_blacklist_due_to_government_complicity.html

[Enot]

Maybe you should preface your statements with, "From my experience and based on the women that I have met, it is my belief that..."

Do you actually believe that most women from the FSU are desparate to leave their country?

[groovlstk]

Do you actually believe that most women from the FSU are desparate to leave their country?

Most? Of course not.

Many? Depends on how you define the word. There are enough to support a multi-million $ industry dedicated to matching Western men with Russian women.

There are a LOT of FSU women who are desperate to relocate, guys who claim otherwise do so because it hurts their vanity to admit that the attention they get from beautiful women decades younger than they are may be the result of something other than their good character and Western values.

Perhaps "desperation" is too strong a word, but it's much more appropriate than "willingness to date foreign men" or "being open to relocate." I'd also strongly suspect that this "willingness" is in direct proportion to economic opportunity (or lack of) in her home country.

[Misha]

Do you actually believe that most women from the FSU are desparate to leave their country?

I would say that only a small minority are desperate to leave their country. However, most women in the FSU want a good husband and a happy family. Many will consider a foreigner if they find the right person. My wife was not desperate to leave, but she simply had not found the man she was looking for in Russia.She left not out of desperation, but because she wanted to be with me.

[Faux Pas]

As I said, there are good women in these cities but you will increase your odds if you look elsewhere.

Scott gave you some good advice about the preface. Perhaps YOU increased YOUR odds when you looked elsewhere. How you can make a blanket statement that everyone does is beyond me. Perhaps it is you and not the women? I freely admit dating an FSU woman is a gamble but it is not a crap shoot and shouldn't be approached as one. If one finds a lady and develops a loving relationship in any country the "odds" are still only 50/50. I have been to 3 different cities in Russia and each city had an abundance of warm, beautiful, welcoming and interested women. More selection than any place in America but they are still women.

Women the world over want and wish to find their dream mate just as men do. No doubt some of them settle for less out of desperation. So do men but many times a different desperation. Seems you had failures in Russia where you didn't another country. Why point the blame on a whole country with 75 million other women? The problem could have been you and not the Russian ladies you dated.

[Enot]

Scott gave you some good advice about the preface. Perhaps YOU increased YOUR odds when you looked elsewhere.

No, I think anyone increases their odds by dating other than RW and women from large cities of the Ukraine.   Once again, I admit there are good RW but there are more women elsewhere that would accept relocation better.  In the 3 Plus years I've been searching , and finally found, a foreign women to marry ... the only places where women discontinued long term relationships, fiancee visas, and sposal visas were from large cities of the Ukraine and RW.

Just my opinion based on observation.

[Blues Fairy]

Once again, I admit there are good RW but there are more women elsewhere that would accept relocation better.... the only places where women discontinued long term relationships, fiancee visas, and sposal visas were from large cities of the Ukraine and RW. 

If those RW discontinued relationship with YOU, Enot, it doesn't mean ANYONE would increase the odds by looking elswhere.  Perhaps you were just not appealing enough to those RW.  Care to entertain this possibility?  Or you find it more comforting to label all RW unworthy of anyone's attention?

[docetae]

If those RW discontinued relationship with YOU, Enot, it doesn't mean ANYONE would increase the odds by looking elswhere.  Perhaps you were just not appealing enough to those RW.  Care to entertain this possibility?  Or you find it more comforting to label all RW unworthy of anyone's attention?

Please define what is good RW for you ... I think we have not the same definition...

[Blues Fairy]

Please define what is good RW for you ... I think we have not the same definition...

Which idea/phrase of mine exactly are you referring to?

[docetae]

Which idea/phrase of mine exactly are you referring to?

Sorry the question was for Enot....he is talking about good RW... but do not say what kind of woman he is looking for ...

[groovlstk]

No, I think anyone increases their odds by dating other than RW and women from large cities of the Ukraine.   Once again, I admit there are good RW but there are more women elsewhere that would accept relocation better.  In the 3 Plus years I've been searching , and finally found, a foreign women to marry ... the only places where women discontinued long term relationships, fiancee visas, and sposal visas were from large cities of the Ukraine and RW.

Just my opinion based on observation.

Enot, your observation may be correct in terms of discontinued relationships, but I certainly wouldn't consider a guy's quest successful simply because he found a woman willing to marry him and relocate to his country. I'd bet my last dollar that in a pool of women who "accept relocation better" there are also greater numbers who relocate once more when their green card arrives.

[Enot]

If those RW discontinued relationship with YOU, Enot, it doesn't mean ANYONE would increase the odds by looking elswhere.  Perhaps you were just not appealing enough to those RW.  Care to entertain this possibility?  Or you find it more comforting to label all RW unworthy of anyone's attention?

They did not discontinue a relationship with me, I discontinued relations with them.

I also want to repeat that there are good women in Russia and the Ukraine but the odds of finding a "good serious woman" to relocate increase if you look else where.

In MY OPINION, anyone can increase their odds by looking elsewhere based on MY OBSERVATIONS and therefore MY OPINION!  I know many guys who were in the process of a fiancee visa or a spousal visa and the woman changed her mind and decided not to relocate.  ALL these women were from Russia or a large city in the Ukraine.  I've never heard of a woman from other countries wanting to cancel a visa.  Once again MY OPINION based on MY OBSERVATIONS. 

[kievstar]

Really will not know a successful marriage until 25 years.  Spending 25 years is an accomplishment. My opinion.

[groovlstk]

They did not discontinue a relationship with me, I discontinued relations with them.

I also want to repeat that there are good women in Russia and the Ukraine but the odds of finding a "good serious woman" to relocate increase if you look else where.

I don't know if you're willfully trying to ignore questions like Docetae's, but if you remove the part I bolded above there's nothing to debate, so long as you define as "serious" a woman who has made up her mind to leave her country first and foremost.

I don't think it's possible to know that "good" women exist in greater abundance in once place vs. another - simply because they don't.

You might want to start another thread about why so many K1s from women living in wealthier FSU cities go up in smoke vs. Moldova, although it's probably obvious to those of us who have travelled extensively in the FSU and have witnessed the endless poverty, swelling middle classes, and obscenely rich all within a five-minute stroll down Old Arbat.

My apologies to Greg for leaving muddy tracks in his thread.

[Misha]

I also want to repeat that there are good women in Russia and the Ukraine but the odds of finding a "good serious woman" to relocate increase if you look else where.

I know many guys who were in the process of a fiancee visa or a spousal visa and the woman changed her mind and decided not to relocate. 

Well, perhaps it was a good thing they changed their minds. Lot cheaper in the long run than a costly divorce.

However, the challenge is defining good. Relocating in itself is not a good criteria. What if she is relocating in spite of the man simply to leave her country? Hardly a good thing for her fiance.

[Misha]

You might want to start another thread about why so many K1s from women living in wealthier FSU cities go up in smoke vs. Moldova, although it's probably obvious to those of us who have travelled extensively in the FSU and have witnessed the endless poverty, swelling middle classes, and obscenely rich all within a five-minute stroll down Old Arbat.

 

It will be interesting to see how the above will be affected by the stock market collapse now underway. If you think yesterday's stock market drop was bad in the United States, Russia was at least four times worse.

[Gator]

ALL these women were from Russia or a large city in the Ukraine. 

Every man is different.  I doubt that I would find much in common with a woman contented with staying in her Ukraine village.  Another man may be delighted with such a woman.

[Gator]

It will be interesting to see how the above will be affected by the stock market collapse now underway. If you think yesterday's stock market drop was bad in the United States, Russia was at least four times worse.

Bumps in the road, some bigger than others.

[Misha]

Bumps in the road, some bigger than others.

A 55% drop since May for the RTS and if I am not mistaken the single biggest lost in one day for the MICEX since 1998. Seems more like a roller-coaster ride than a few bumps to me