If I had it to do all over again, I dont think I would even leave the airport in

[GregfromGa]

Kiev. This place has changed so much in the 7 years I've been coming here. What was once a beautiful cernter city is now just one big neon advertisment. Huge billboards hanging off and on top of these beautiful old buildings. Boryspil is a friggin zoo to say the least. All the kids smoke and drink and many now have fishhooks hanging out of every visable place to hang one. I remember how innocent and naive I was when I arrived here in August 01. I really think this place has lost an identity. The prices are too high for what you get. The rent has doubled on my apartment but thats ok I guess. I've been renting from the same woman for the 7 years. She has not made one improvement to this place in the 7 years. She still uses the sheets I took from the train. The same towels,the same dishes and pots.The same books and magazines. Still not a bad deal at $70 a night but we're moving out on Tuesday. We might do Turkey after our luggage hopefully arrives on Monday..just got a call and our luggage is here. Thats good news. Hopefully Ambach123 is having a good time.

I know part of my displeasure about Kiev is I've already been her and done that. I have a beautiful wife and I'm older. I can see where this would be exciting to a newbie. The asses still look good in all those tight jeans. There is still beautiful women here but thats about it. I went to a buffett line yesterday. The place was so crowded, might have been the worst food I ever ate since I've been coming here. the sister-in-law wanted to go there. Maybe I just need to buy a cheap beer and enjoy my time.

[kievstar]

Did you really expect to get good food in a buffet line???

You must of hit the airport on a bad day.  I have never seen fish hooks every where.

I will say Kiev is expensive and if you do it on the cheap you pay for what you get. 

[Enot]

I agree with Greg.  I was in Kiev last year (May 2007) for a week and didn't particually enjoy it.  It looks like a big city in the USA ... McDonald's everywhere, overweight people, and teenagers with oiecings and tattoos.  The best thing about it was being with my wife, first meeting with her.

[BC]

Our friends who are Ukrainian reported similar thoughts.

Kiev is now on their list of places to avoid unless it's catching the first flight to elsewhere.

I think we'll pass.

[blarney4u]

Kiev. This place has changed so much in the 7 years I've been coming here.

Many things have changed in the last 7 years, heck even in the last few years....

Just my impressions from my trips there....

-Agencies have been exposed for what they really are.
-The truth is finally being exposed in a greater light that age gaps of more than 10 years are NOT normal in Ukraine, in fact they are actually more common in America! Even 7 or 8 year gaps are a stretch! Walk the streets of Poltova, Kharkov, Kherson, Lviv, Dontesk, and look really hard at all the couples, everywhere, you won't see any large age gap couples, because it was & is all a very highly-effective scam, carefully crafted by a multi-million dollar industry & tourism fiasco. Yes, you may be the lucky guy that finds that 1 in a 100, and you will be competing with hundreds of other guys for her, just like in America.
-Ukrainians seem to make relationships based on "what's in it for them", not because they care about you...
-Women there are more tempermental than American women, and where are all the family-oriented women? Yah they are there, but once again, luck & numbers game if you find the 1 in 100.
-Ukraine is not worth the huge expense for a 45ish year old guy. I can find a nice 35 year old in America, and not have to worry about the K-1.
Heck, I don't even see Ukraine as a good option or alternative anymore!
-One good thing left, the classifieds, they do seem to draw some good women, but I figure it is only a matter of time before American men over-saturate that option, hundreds of men competing for the 10 or 15 good women the ads pull-in, and when there are a 100 classifieds ads running at the same time, the results will really get watered down, and eventually greed and the scammers will find their way to the classifieds in larger numbers!
-I think if we ever do see actual statistics of successful marriages, K-1's and of the failures, there wouldn't even be a need for the forums anymore.
-I suppose as long as there are suckers, someone will always try to sell the unlikey fantasy.
-So what's next?
-Yes, years ago, the FSU certainly gave American men some great options, but like any other pot of gold, all good things must come to an end...
...I hear the fat lady starting to sing guys!

[diverboy70]

Greg

Just remember why you are there!

[felix8787]

Never been to Kiev so it will all be new to me but I am sure after a few days it will seem the same LOL. The count down is on 8 days till I leave and the first lady that I will be seeing is counting down also, it is a long time coming but I think it is well worth the effort.

felix8787

[blarney4u]

Hi Felix,
Wish you the best on your trip.
If you get the chance, consider the smaller towns in Ukraine as well.
You will have a much better chance in those (Kherson, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, etc...) than Kiev, which has become like an American city in many ways. On the other hand, you never know where love will find you.
Have a good one!

[kievstar]

blarney, I have a lot of friends in Kiev with an age gap of 15 - 20 years.  There Ukraine men too.  But your not going to find them walking the streets.  Maybe driving one of their Maybachs.  My advice about Kiev is stay away from city center that is the tourist area.  Even the rich Ukraine men do not live near the city center for the most part anymore.  They live south of Kiev near where Yushenkos house is.  They all have dachas another 2-3 hours from Kiev and south for the most part.

Age gap is normally for rich man hot wife.  Kiev has a lot of rich men now and it is not 2001 when women were desperate.  So if your not rich and your dating a young hot girl expect to be scammed.  I am talking very attractive too.  

I do agree Kiev is just like any other big city.  Place to do business and not vacation. If your wifes parents are not from Kiev no reason to go there.

[felix8787]

Hey blarney,
Thanks, I have thought about the smaller towns, the first lady that I am going to go and see is from Vinnista and lives and works in Kiev, it is just more convienent to go there instead of Kiev and the second lady is from Nikolaev and is coming to kiev to meet.
I am sure that the first lady would want to take me sight seeing while the second lady will do the same. I just got off the phone with my Moldvian friend and he was telling me that, his friend's girlfriend from Vinnista is bringing with her like 2 or 3 of her girlfriends with her to Kiev also to hang out, so I imagine that things are going to be great.

felix8787

[blarney4u]

blarney, I have a lot of friends in Kiev with an age gap of 15 - 20 years.  There Ukraine men too.  But your not going to find them walking the streets.  Maybe driving one of their Maybachs.  

Age gap is normally for rich man hot wife.  Kiev has a lot of rich men now and it is not 2001 when women were desperate.  So if your not rich and your dating a young hot girl expect to be scammed.  I am talking very attractive too.  

I do agree Kiev is just like any other big city.  Place to do business and not vacation. If your wifes parents are not from Kiev no reason to go there.

...Interesting, you have LOTS of friends with large age gaps, and most are rich. Wow, what a revelation. (sarcasm)
I think that it goes without saying (Only the rich are marrying hot chicks that are more than 10 years younger).
Well, I have many friends in America who are wealthy, but most of their wives are within 5 - 7 years of their age, quite normal. Yet, at the company where I work I have one friend, she is 23 and her husband is 33, and he's not rich. Oh well, anything is possible.
For those who are really curious, Moscow airport is a good place for site-seeing, that is if you are trying to find those rich 50year-old men in suits with 20-something year-old hotties!
But anyway, I think we agree on the principal of it all. (It's not the norm!)
More than 10 year age gap: BUYER BEWARE!

Felix,
Good plan, meeting women from other cities and having them come to you in Kiev! Excellent! And yes, many touristy things to see & do in Kiev, at least for one trips worth.

I remember when some guys used to post on here about doing 5-city+ tours on one trip. Crazy, but possible if you have the luxury of additional time to spend in Ukraine. Always better and more practical these days if you can get them to come to you.

[tfcrew]

I've seen some pretty general statements along this thread...
"Ukrainians seem to make relationships based on "what's in it for them", not because they care about you"
"Women there are more tempermental than American women, and where are all the family-oriented women? Yah they are there, but once again, luck & numbers game if you find the 1 in 100."
In all my experience, this seems pretty well true everywhere or in any country [especially now-a-days].
I read in another thread about "normal wives".
I chose not the normal but the exception.
I could go on with that but in a nutshell the rule to foreign brides searching is--
Those who tend to generalize, generally tend to be wrong.

I also am a newbie on this particular board. I am interested in knowing preferences as well as deferences and various purpose here as well as critique.

[GregfromGa]

Well my luggage arrived. For some unknown reason my lovely,smart and talented wife assumed they didnt have any type of vinigrette dressing in all of Kiev so she packed a nice big bottle. I've been cleaning that crap off everything in that particular suitcase for the last hour. She missed out on it because she's out walking around looking for shoes because there certainly is none of those in America that will work for her. I really dont want to sound too negative about this place but it is what it has become. Another example is this beautiful center is torn all to hell and back with bricks and holes everywhere. I mean how hard is it to fix the goddamned sidewalk in from of Mcdonalds @Maidan? There are place torn up all over the place around here. I probably should just shut up and enjoy. The trip from JFK is the way to go. The buffett wasnt a typical American all you can eat joint. They measure down to the last peice of tomato seed with weight. Looks like I'm headed to Obriens to drink a beer and chat with some locals. Notre Dame whipped Meatchicken yesterday so I'm walking tall today. It aint that bad but they could use some structure here and there with this beautiful old city.

[docetae]

My thoughts about Kiev...I traveled to other cities in Ukraine and finally met my wife (D-13) in Kiev. She is from zaporoje but moved to Kiev 6 years ago after her divorce.

As Paris is not France, Kiev is not Ukraine...

The city is more and more looking like any other large European city, with all downside of an infrastructure going slowly in very bad state.
About people... This is a city of several millions of people..so you can meet everything... but if you look to agencies only, this is the best way to lose your time and money.

Very often, when we were doing paperwork for our wedding and went to take coffe, we can see american people, around 40 talking to a 20 something with help of an interpreter. All the time, the girl seems to be really finding these talks very boring...

[blarney4u]

Very often, when we were doing paperwork for our wedding and went to take coffe, we can see american people, around 40 talking to a 20 something with help of an interpreter. All the time, the girl seems to be really finding these talks very boring...

I could go on with that but in a nutshell the rule to foreign brides searching is--
Those who tend to generalize, generally tend to be wrong.
I also am a newbie on this particular board.

Interesting quotes...
I agree with you Doctae, "This is a city of several millions of people..so you can meet everything". Just like New York, Paris or any big city. But is this really the best city to go to to meet your future wife? I think not, based on my experiences, and you can read the experiences of others on these forums...
And Yes, being literal, if you go to many locations in Ukraine, you can see, as you say Doctae; "american people, around 40 talking to a 20 something with help of an interpreter. All the time, the girl seems to be really finding these talks very boring... "
YUP, exactly, must be one of those several hundreds of American 40 & 50 year old men trying to land a 20-something to be their wives! - And with no success as usual! (Though of course we all know there are exceptions). My original point was reflecting on typical "Ukrainian" couples, not the American suckers that are everywhere! (sorry if that sounded too harsh, oh and let me explain for tfcrew and others who are only newbies "on this board", I dont mean "all" Americans who go there are suckers!).

As for tfcrew, good advice (sarcasm); "Those who tend to generalize, generally tend to be wrong."
YUP, send them newbies to Kiev! Miss my point did you?
Try reading my second line: "Just my impressions from my trips there...."
MY IMPRESSIONS FROM MY TRIPS (try over 20 trips in 5 years), and I did encounter these impressions more often than not on my trips. As some say on these forums, Use the "SEARCH" button, and you will find many postings, and then you can make your own conclusions.....
Yikes!

[Enot]

I've always said, to increase your odds of finding a foreign bride ... stay away from the big cities of Ukraine and all cities in Russia.  Seems that women from Belarus, Uzbekistan, and Moldova are more serious about having a life abroad.  I'm not saying there are no women in the Ukraine or Russia.  I'm just feel that your odds will be increased if you stay away from from these areas.   

[kievstar]

blanary,

I was talking 15-20 years and not 10 years - plus very attractive woman.  Do you have a picture of this hot 23 year old you talk about? 

[ScottinCrimea]

blarney,  I would imagine that after over 5 years and 20 trips with no success you would have negative feelings about the city, the process and everything related.  Sorry you've had so many bad experiences and met so many bad people.  Fortunately my experiences have been much different.

[blarney4u]

blarney,  I would imagine that after over 5 years and 20 trips with no success you would have negative feelings about the city, the process and everything related.  Sorry you've had so many bad experiences and met so many bad people.  Fortunately my experiences have been much different.

Ah, on the contrary, I've actually had some great dates in Ukraine, and uncertain on where things will go with a few in particular, however I was posting in regard to this thread, and to the realities out there.

At to the 23 year old "hot" girl you mention kievstar, it's funny how people misquote on here, as I said; "Yet, at the company where I work I have one friend, she is 23 and her husband is 33, and he's not rich." I never said she was "hot", but now that you mention it, she is good looking and certainly could have had a younger man. She told me that they fell in love, and that one of the main reasons she married him (instead of a younger guy) was because of his maturity and that many guys her age just wanted to party. Different strokes for different folks I guess...

[groovlstk]

So if your not rich and your dating a young hot girl expect to be scammed.  I am talking very attractive too.  

I'm sure the wealthy guys in such relationships are also being scammed, only it will take a lot longer for him to realize it

[CCowboy]

One very important factor regarding age difference is the age of the parties.  I completely agree that a guy in his early to middle 40's is asking for trouble if he's pursuing a girl in her early to middle 20's.  But for women 40+, it's fairly common for her to marry a man 15-20 years older, and sometimes more, and he doesn't have to be rich.  Obviously the younger the woman, the more attention she receives and the older, less.  If a woman in her early 40's is going to stick to a 10 year maximum age difference, she's going to be waiting for a long time, though as in all rules of thumb, there are exceptions.  A while back there was a survey that the average age of a man was 45 and the average age of his significant other was 31.  The older the man, the larger the age gap.  I don't think it's changed very much.  I do agree that gone are the days of sincere 25 y.o. women marrying men in their 50's.  Just my opinion and experience.  

[docetae]

Regarding age, it seems you will have the more opportunity if you are 35-40 without children and want to start a family ....Many women who between 27 and 30, single and with no children are not able to start family, mainly because of economic situation: With cost of housing, food, etc. this is more and more difficult for them to meet who want to build a true relationship.

Sex friends are easy to find, building a relationship a lot more difficult...

[ScottinCrimea]

Ah, on the contrary, I've actually had some great dates in Ukraine, and uncertain on where things will go with a few in particular, however I was posting in regard to this thread, and to the realities out there.

I apologize.  If your idea of success after 5 years and 20 trips is "some great dates", then you must be quite satisfied.

My wife is hot, our age difference is 15 years and I don't consider myself rich.  After knowing her for over 6 years and being married for over 2 years, I don't think it's likely to be a scam.  I don't feel that I am necessarily the exception.

I do agree on many things that have been said about Kiev.  My last time there I was very disappointed in how things have changed.  I particularly noticed the change in dress.  It seems they are adopting the more casual, sloppy dress habits of the US.

[Misha]

I've always said, to increase your odds of finding a foreign bride ... stay away from the big cities of Ukraine and all cities in Russia.

Odd, I managed to find a wife in a Russian city 

[tfcrew]

Odd, I managed to find a wife in a Russian city 

Yeah..I did too.. like where else is there? Book a room at a farm house?
I've seen this happen [a farm outside Odessa]
Generalities stated earlier ---esp "Ukrainians [ladies I presume is meant] seem to make relationships based on "what's in it for them", not because they care about you" ...that is the one blanket statement missed, ignored or simply not understood. Because if this is a well seeded thought, then why would one spend any time here about it.
I wouldn't discourge a first time traveler to not go into Kiev...I assume we are all grown men until I see otherwise.