Trip Report to Kiev

[Sculpto]

ambach.. I have no idea if your "M" considered how she might react to you intimately before you actually met her, or, if her actual reaction was spontaneous or not.  It doesn't really matter and you will probably never know, however, given my own personal travel experience in over 20 countries and some of the incredible adventures I have had there is a risk of what I stated before.  Also understanding that some ladies in Ukraine may be sexually starved due to long work schedules and lack of trust of UM there is a possibility, not a probability, what I said is relevant, regardless of how many months of communication you had in advance.

Now, I also have to agree with the others, posting about what you guys did in the tub is not in good taste.  However, I have the feeling, maybe wrong, that you, like myself and probably others, are frankly affection starved and may have been so for a long time.  Sexual intimacy after a long period without it can easily cloud ones judgement, and, it can also make us feel like "telling the world".  If that is the case I do not really fault you.  I would however advise you to try and be very objective with yourself about your experience with "M" and your long term expectations and your understanding of hers.  Getting the girl is not that difficult.. keeping her is a whole other story.

[viking]

There is a very long road between meeting a woman, being intimate and enjoying her company, and filing a k1 and having her come to you. I am still waiting for the other shoe to drop as rarely do things go down perfectly. One member here recently thought it was a done deal and then it fell apart at the last moment. After Ambach gets home, decompresses,puts things into their proper perspective ( sex was great, had a good time but....), and the emails and phone calls commence once again, it will be interesting to see how the next steps unfold.

[kievstar]

Ambach does take a lot of abuse even before his trip from people here.  I think he posted this to get some reactions going. But he has 1,000 views and he is just getting started with his trip report.

There are a number of people on this board "including myself" who use words or sentences to get things into a more heated discussion. 

[Faux Pas]

I'm thinking some of you guys must have read a pornographic version of Ambach's TP that I didn't see. IIRC he mentioned taking a shower and having sexual relations and how it was approached without details. What else am I missing? To my eye his description was a GP rating. Are we all adults here? Agree with his time frame or disagree makes no difference. It was a result most all of us pursue along the pathway. Where and how is going to be as different as the many people and personalities as on RWD. Because he didn't choose wait longer or do it to you're liking why does that make him a target?

It's not taboo to have sex nor is it taboo to discuss it. Does it skirt bad taste to mention it on the forum? If he felt comfortable doing it, I say no. Quit beating him up over it. If it is not your preference then don't do it. Ambach didn't demean "M" or himself.He simply stated what happened and if I read between the lines correctly, he'll never be the same again.

I think he brings up a very important subject that most of us wanted to know before we hopped on that plane. When is the right time, how long to wait and how is the subject broached? I've seen several discussions about sex with a RW or UA women but nothing really touching on this specifically. Let's face it, the way we meet, the time we spend together and many other things toss all the conventional rules aside.

Ambach, apparently I am alone in this view but I for one appreciate your honesty

[AugustD]

Since his Report has been totally derailed by whether to kiss and tell or not.  I am not one to share such stuff but I think Ambach is a big boy and can decide whether or not to share.  Just as I had to the choice whether or not to read.  Whether in poor taste or not, it certainly is not offensive so take what he is reporting for what it is worth!  Maybe there are some guys that are wondering about such things and can gather something from this part of his report.  Personally I am interested to see how it all ends.

[kievstar]

Anytime sex is talked about everybody has their own tastes on what should be discussed. I think we can comment on Ambachs report but respect his views on what he wants to discuss. 

My initial reaction to the lotion and drying was some child fetish they have going on.  But to each is their own and see now problem with him talking about it. But I doubt he is serious about her or her with him.

[viking]

I think he posted this to get some reactions going. But he has 1,000 views and he is just getting started with his trip report.

I think the number of views are high simply because of his prior postings of knowing it all before he even got started and his personal attitude he exhibited towards RW. People now want to see where this all goes now that he is in country.

[topofthekey]

I think the number of views are high simply because of his prior postings of knowing it all before he even got started and his personal attitude he exhibited towards RW. People now want to see where this all goes now that he is in country.

just to add to that... people are also wondering perception verus reality. What happens... and what gets reported. We missed so much of day to day happenings. relationship stuff. And got Dear Penthouse and Buffalo Bill.

[ScottinCrimea]

just to add to that... people are also wondering perception verus reality. What happens... and what gets reported. We missed so much of day to day happenings. relationship stuff. And got Dear Penthouse and Buffalo Bill.

I personally like a TR that talks about impressions one has of the country on a first visit, interactions with the natives and the ups and downs of the conversations and actions involving the RW they meet.  Maybe it's just about reliving my experiences through others, but I think it's also about sharing experiences so that those who haven't made the trip yet can get some idea of some things they might expect and how to handle certain situations.

In this case, based on ambach's initial perceptions of what would happen, some of them very erroneous, I was curious to see how his perceptions would change once he actually experienced something.

[mark2353]

  Not something I would comment about regarding someone who I respect and could possibly be my future wife.

Scott,
You bring out a very good point! this lady may become his future wife. Can you imaging this lady like many other couples on this board surfing along to meet new friends and finding this trip report! I believe there would be one very sore man!   
mark!

[Ade]

I'm not comfortable with adult relations so soon in the process if I'm seriously looking for a long term relationship. BUT thats just me. My only point was to throw up the caution flag for anyone reading. I do hope things work out for ambach.

Well, you should get used to the idea because generally speaking women in the FSU (and Europe for that matter) seem to have less hang ups about the sex thing than you Americans which may very well lead to sex a lot sooner than you'd expect if they are in to you.

And FWIW, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This isn't expected to be a one night stand after all and there is little time to beat around the bush (honestly, no pun intended). Also, in a lot of cases, like our contentious Ambach here, there has been considerable communication beforehand so it's not really like a first date either. As has been said, sex is a very important part of a relationship for most people and if you're not compatible, it's better to figure that out sooner rather than later.

I would caution anyone into judging a FSU girl (or any girl from a different culture) by their  (oops that didn't sound right ) your moral standards and I would certainly say that it's not a red flag if they want to sleep with you on a first date, at least if all the other signs seem to be right.

[diverboy70]

As a European guy I have to agree with SJ here!

It's not automatically a red flag. If there is a connection there I think FSU women have less hang ups about sex, it's just natural if it feels right. But it's all up to the overall feelings, if the meeting is so,so and there still will be sex I would see it as a big red flag.

[Shadow]

It does not mattter what happens during the meeting, but how it proceeds afterwards.
So far what was described could raise a red flag, on the other hand when an adult woman stays in one apartment with a guy who is coming to visit her she will not have pretentions nothing is going to happen.

Mark(In/Left)Tex is one example of a guy who was in the bedroom almost before he landed, and he still is a happy married guy.
Other guys have been taken to the cleaners once their mind was filled with lust.

Results vary.

[ambach123]

There is nothing here which is demeaning or degrading about M; I have utmost respect for her. Just because we were physically attracted to each other is a positive not a negative.

It is true that finding a girl is easy, keeping her is the difficult part. However I don't know how one can develop or maintain a relationship without mutual physical attraction. You would not want a girl unless you were physically attracted to her, why would you expect her to want you without any physical attraction.

If physical attraction does not occur early on, it is unlikely to be there later on.

SJ is correct, Europeans have much less hangups about sex, and that also includes Ukrainians.

In any case, we discussed a lot of things; one of them being religion.

" Do you go to Church?" She asked.

" I am not very religious, but I do go to a Catholic church ".

" How often" ?

" Twice a year, Christmas and Easter ".

" But I go to church almost every Sunday, and I am Eastern Orthodox ".

" No problem, I will go with you, may be not every Sunday but often enough; there is a Ukrainian Church in Boston".

" Really? "

" Sure, if we have any children, you can raise them as Eastern Orthodox".

She seemed surprised and grateful at the same time.

" Thank you, thank you, and thank you "; she kissed me.

I believe this concession meant a lot to her, she was falling in love, I could see it in her eyes.

[Sculpto]

Awesome!

And your post was excellent in all other regards.  I completely agree.

[ambach123]

We talk some more.

M has impressed me with her English, when I first called her about three months ago, she could barely communicate, now she can hold a conversation in English easily.

The talk turns to money.
I tell her that I have my own business, and I own my home. I live comfortably near the city of Boston. She did not ask any further.

" I would like to work", she said.

" The only job you would get in USA is as a shop assistant, at least initially ".

" But I have a degree in accounting, can't I work as an accountant? ".

" American accounting system is completely different than yours, but with some schooling you may work as an accountant. Accounting is a very good profession in USA".

I was somewhat pleasantly surprised. I went to Ukraine thinking that the primary motive of these women searching for WM is money. This was not my impression of her. She did not ask for anything, she tersely refused when I offered to reimburse her for the flight from Western Ukraine, and the cab fare from Borispol.

A small incident; she drinks green tea, they call it " Chai " over there. ( I drink coffee or black tea). Early on we went to a grocery store to buy some packaged chai. She insisted that she would pay for it, because it was for her.

I have read on this board about " Cinderella " story and about " Lessons Learned " and countless other ones in which they are into money, most often overtly, and almost always covertly.

It is possible that once in USA, M would change, but I have some difficulty imagining a modest and unpretentious girl turning into a high maintenance woman.

The impression I got was that M had a deep desire to love, and be loved including the physical aspect of it, and she wanted children, raised as Eastern Orthodox.

[msmoby_ru]

There is nothing here which is demeaning or degrading about M; I have utmost respect for her.

You  have a VERY strange way of showing it... I note you didn't answer the question wondering how "M" might feel if she saw the detail you were posting about her on a public forum...

SJ is correct, Europeans have much less hangups about sex, and that also includes Ukrainians.

SJ has an opinion which you might agree with, but *I* don't ... WHERE did programs like "Sex in the City" originate ...?!

To lump all the folk from Europe - I guess that includes Cypriot and Irish women - is a huge and VERY silly generalisation  - that is WILDLY inaccurate... I thought you were widely travelled ?!

[kievstar]

I think a more accurate thing about sex is Europe shows it more on television on public channels than USA.  I see no difference in girls and I have lived more in Europe than USA in past 15 years.  Regarding Ukraine girls there all different - some wait till marriage, some first night, and some after meeting there parents, etc. 

I think there is more pressure on guys who can not travel a couple of times a month to meet there girl to have sex earlier in relationship. Meaning their relationship advances faster than normal if the girl was living right down the street.  The fact is some women likes to have sex with many men and some do not.  I advise men not to ask there girlfriend "how many" because they probably will not like the answer. 

[I/O]

Nothing against the OP, but I am again reminded of why I rarely read TR's. Too much information, followed by too much speculation. OMB comments are guarded which speaks volumes to me. :noidea:

I/O

[Jack]

     I see no difference in girls and I have lived more in Europe than USA in past 15 years.

Wow!

All I can say is unfrigging believable.

   I advise men not to ask there girlfriend "how many" because they probably will not like the answer. 

I think most men will like the answer if compared to the same aged American woman.

[kievstar]

Jack, I know your agency owner.  And you need to have this image that Ukraine / Russia girls are the most innocent in the World. But seriously all girls in Ukraine are virgins.  Come on.  Many girls have been around the block and same goes for the rest of Europe and USA.  I think you need to travel a little more. 

Also, when you pull out one sentence from a post it takes away the meaning. 

[Shadow]

I was somewhat pleasantly surprised. I went to Ukraine thinking that the primary motive of these women searching for WM is money. This was not my impression of her. She did not ask for anything, she tersely refused when I offered to reimburse her for the flight from Western Ukraine, and the cab fare from Borispol.

You got the primary motive wrong in your mind. I hope it did not spoil things.

[ambach123]

Shadow, please read some of the threads going on here. Specifically about " Lessons Learned" and about the " Cinderella " and many others.

What impression would you get?

[Sculpto]

OK, this is gonna be a shock treatment for the virgin seekers... and I apologize in advance to the ladies who will read this because it is not intended to shine a bad light on anyone.. but it is still a relevant wake up call..

Ukraine and Russia are producing massive numbers of prostitutes and sex workers.  Some of them are trafficed as in the threads dealing with it.. however, large numbers are doing it on their own.

Thaliand, Dominican Republic (there are private sex resorts for men in the DR that specialize in FSU women), United Arab Emirates, Germany, Venezuela, Czheck Republic and lots of other sex tourism destinations all have a regular flow of independent FSU girls who go there specifically to make some "easy" money.  Just sitting on the bench in Donetsk touts came by almost every day advertising to pretty girls to go to Japan to be "hostess".  On one occasion I was sitting with a bunch of highschool aged kids practicing English when a tout came by.  I asked them if they understood what it "really" was.  This group of 16 year olds had absolutely no doubt what it was about.  As I posted in another thread there are well over 100,000 women in the FSU making a living doing porno on live cams. 

No one should think I am making a judgement by reporting this information.  It is simply a fact that we should all be aware of. 

I would also add that asking a woman about her past sexual experience is in really really bad taste.  Such a topic should be left for really stable married couples and only if the lady brings it up.

In the US we like to have a little tease of sex in our media.. but people remain rather prude in general when compared to most Europeans, or Asians, or Latin Americans...

And to bring this post back to the topic.. I think Ambach found himself a great lady and there is an overall very small chance that she would ever read this thread.

[dispozo]

And to bring this post back to the topic.. I think Ambach found himself a great lady and there is an overall very small chance that she would ever read this thread.

I hope she never decides to google his screen name. I have a feeling it is the same as his personal profile.