Lesson Learned.....

[steve057]

Hi Everyone,
 It would seem that as a person ages they would get smarter but sorry to say that is not always the way it is! I went to St Petersburg to meet a woman I had been talking to for about 7 months. To be honest I thought this was the one I had been looking for. As I look back on our realationship there were so many red flags I don't know how in the world I could have missed them but I did! She said all the right things and never asked for anything including money! She was a make up artist and I have seen her on the modeling website she worked for and her work was very good. I live in a small town in the states not a major city and I had asked her many times if that was going to be a problem. She told me no and that work was work and she could do that anywhere here in this country even though she had mentioned LA many times. Well needless to say when I arrived in St Petersburg the fun started and the flags started to fly as well. She flat out told me she didn't want to be a housewife(something I never asked her to be mind you!)then she could never live in a small city it had to be a major city so she could make more money. Then she wanted to have many children and great big house with a swimming pool,in California, a great big diamond ring she could show off to her friends an expensive car and the list goes on and on and on!!!!!! Of course I would have to quit my job and move to California so she could become famous in her field never mind that I have been there for 30 years and am only about 15 from retirement! Then she began to ask for money and I did give her a little. When I arrived home that is all she was talking about. When I could get her visa and then her cell phone broke and she wanted an Iphone. Well I got a hold of Phil on this site ( and I have been meaning to thank you for the advice and information!!!)and he gave me the web sites for cell phones in St Petersburg. You could buy a decent phone for around 150.00 not the 1200.00 they wanted for an IPhone. Well that pissed her off to say the least,then I am a greedy person and being compared to her ex husband who by the way at this point I am starting to see why they divorced!:)I am a patient person but she pushed me way past the limit!!! Don't know if she was a pro dater or not but wow! I am not a bottomless pit of money that she seemed to think!
 So needless to say I am starting all over again! Still looking for that special someone for me!:)
 So what did I learn, well try to meet them asap so you can get a good feel for them(so to speak!)or at least talk to them on the phone. If the first time you go out and the dinner costs you 460.00 it's a good sign to stay away from them unless you are very rich!!:)) Never underestimate the value of a good interpreter they are worth their price! If you lady does not speak good English or whatever language you speak hire an interpreter! There is much more I learned but i am out of time for now.
 Even through all of this experience I had a great time in St Petersburg and do not regret going there. I will be more aware of things when I go back and will be a little wiser!:)) I will go back for sure, I loved the city and to be honest I got used to hearing Russian while I was there and really missed it when I came home! I also want a few more taxi rides!!!:))
Steve

[Shadow]

Sorry to hear that it went in to a train wreck.
But count it as an experience that will lead you to the right woman in the future.

[Mila]

Hi there! Thanks for sharing with your lesson I know very well what are you talking about as i saw so many stories even 100 times worst. Of course it is not easy for you to come through this unpleasant lesson, but the good thing about that is you became more experienced and i hope in future you would not do same mistake. It is not for nothing that peolle say: "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger!" And it is very good that all other members will learn from your lesson as well. Frankly speaking, almost all men who are just the beginners in international datings do same mistakes and very often it is not their's fault. My advice is try to avoid agency girls and try to meet women in real way. Try www.flirt.ru, www.ukrainewomen.biz. If you need my help or advice, you are always welcome! I'm experienced in that and happy to share my thoughts and advice. Don't be upset about that and enjoy your life!  

[Faux Pas]

Hey Steve!

Yeah that is a bummer and can be a setback if you let it. Don't let it. You are older and wiser as a result. Trust me when I say that a RW relationship can be the warmest most loving you'll ever experience when you find the right one. Your last one was a swing and a miss. Pay attention to the flags  as they do tend to add up but don't obsess over them. There are bumps in the road and learning curves everywhere you turn. But isn't it that way in all relationships?

[Misha]

Hi Steve,

Where did you find this woman?

Personally, if a woman takes out the "greedy" word, that would be my cue to cut and run.

The fact of the matter is that it is not normal when dating in Russia to give expensive gifts to a woman you have just met. A bouquet of flowers, yes, maybe a box of fine chocolates if you want to splurge, but no woman that I know in Russia would expect a man she just met to buy her a cell phone.

Also, when it comes to restaurants, it is expected that the man will pay, but because of this he has a veto over which restaurant they will go to together. Be open to suggestions, but find a restaurant in your price range. A good up-to-date travel book is always good as they will have suggestions as to good restaurants. If she insists on going to the most expensive restaurant that she can find, that would be a sign for me to run as well. The first dates are meant to get to know each other. I wouldn't recommend going to McDonald's, but there is no reason to go to a 5-star restaurant either.

How does that apply to me? I spent a few hundred dollars on a gift for my wife's birthday, two months after meeting and seeing each other daily. Our first meal was at a café where I spend 40 dollars or so and we were there for 6 hours.

Mila's advice is reasonable. Much better options IMHO.

Misha

[steve057]

Thanks everyone for the advice it has been well taken!:) To answer some of your questions,NO I have not given up and I don't plan on it either! It does make me more aware of what to look for in a woman and some of the warning signs though. To be honest I have already started to talk to a few ladies already!:) I did enjoy the trip and it was quite an experience being my first time to leave the shores of my own country!:) I never will forget the trip from the airport to the hotel and seeing everything written in Russian!:))There were alot of firsts when I was there, First time I ever rode a train from Puskin to St Petersburg and the first time I was ever on a subway and a couple of other things I won't go into!;) But all in all a good experience even though it didn't turn out the way I thought it would!:) I will go back for sure but wiser!
 I hate the "greedy" word!!! That probably sent me over the edge more then anything else she said to me! That was an expensive trip coming from the US and I brought her candy and flowers and some perfume she asked for then found out later it was made in America not France like she wanted!!! A little ungrateful I think since she told me what she wanted,never said a thing about France! I even brought her a program for her computer to learn English. Greedy, I think NOT!!!
 I met her on the Amazing Women website. Mila gave some good advice in her response and I am thankful for that!:)) I will try some of those sites.
 You know it is funny that I feel the best time we had was at the cheapest resturant we went to but yes McDonalds is out of the question!!!:)))

[Misha]

That probably sent me over the edge more then anything else she said to me! That was an expensive trip coming from the US and I brought her candy and flowers and some perfume she asked for then found out later it was made in America not France like she wanted!!!

Honestly, that should have been the first sign. A women that specifies what kind of present she wants is likely to be in it only for the money. The only thing that I would consider acceptable for a woman to ask for before meeting would be a souvenir from your city or country.

[steve057]

Well that was partially my fault because I asked her if she wanted me to bring her anything from the states, so that might have been self inflicted there to be honest!

[Misha]

Maybe, but IMHO, most women would say that they don't want anything 

[steve057]

I will remember that to be sure!:)  Thanks!

[groovlstk]

Well that was partially my fault because I asked her if she wanted me to bring her anything from the states, so that might have been self inflicted there to be honest!

If you hadn't cracked open the door she'd have kicked a hole in it with her high heels in no time.

Don't know if she was a pro dater or not but wow!

You were set up and used, no doubt about it.

[steve057]

Well I feel better now knowing that!!! ))

[groovlstk]

Well I feel better now knowing that!!! ))

It could have been worse, you could have bought her here on a K1 and had her ruin your life.

I learned some harsh lessons in this business early on that in retrospect were invaluable in my search. I hope your outcome is similar.

[steve057]

Yeah !! You have a point there. God forbid that I would have got her visa for her!!! That is scary!

[Shadow]

You know it is funny that I feel the best time we had was at the cheapest resturant we went to but yes McDonalds is out of the question!!!:)))

You have a better time when you wallet is not hurting from seeing the menu.
And btw I DID take my wife to McDonalds during my first trip. Or rather to say... she took me.

[topofthekey]

I'm always impressed when people admit things didn't go as planned and then point out exactly what happened.

I'm not from a small town, but I'm from the midwest in a mid sized town. I'm sure I'd be pointing out that Anytown Midwest USA is a lot different than LA, Miami, or NYC.

I'm headed to Tallinn without writing anyone...and without contacting any agencies (dont believe there is much of any agency scene at all). Hopefully I'll have fun... learn about the culture, meet nice girls and see what happens.

We shall see what happens... and if a train wreck occurs, hopefully I'll be just as honest about it.

[steve057]

 If you know where Toledo Ohio is I am just a little south of there by about 7 miles. I live in a town of 16,000 people compared to St Petersburg which is about 4.5 million people. BIG difference!!
 I told my story hoping to help someone else not make the same mistakes I did and that is what this web site is all about really! I learned many things here that I would have never known had I not joined this site and they helped me from making a really big mistake! I feel the only stupid people are the ones that never learn from their mistakes! I made quite a few and I will be alot more careful the next time and have a few more things to watch for. I do know one thing for a fact though,a Russian woman is well worth any effort to capture her heart!
 I wish you good luck in your search and have a great time while you are there!

[topofthekey]

thanks Steve..

if you are looking for a new place to visit I'd suggest checking out Sesile.com. Sofia was my second choice and maybe I will go there next time??

The site looked like a cheap way to get in contact with a nice selection of ladies from Bulgaria. I know almost everyone is going to Russia or Ukraine, but something to consider if you are looking for something different. Really attractive women that I don't think you'll find in the larger marriage agency networks.

I'm sure I'll be very up front about not wanting to move to LA or NYC from the start. Actually I wouldnt even want to live in Chicago.

Toledo has over 1/2 a million people in the area (i believe) that hopefully is big enough for most girls?

[steve057]

 Thanks Key! I'll try that site

[Gator]

Steve,

Arriving late to your class.

First mistake was in dating a model.  I admit that is a broad generalization, something I try to avoid, especially with a sample size of one.  Before every man now chasing a so-called model shoots me, let me finish.

I was engaged to one.  Although she was very successful in the business (walked down the runway for 14 years in Germany, etc. ), she had many attributes which suggest wholesome values:  raised in a Russian provincial city, worked hard all her life (first in the circus, etc.), adored her children, attentive to her loving parents, surrounded by many good ordinary friends, never asked for expensive gifts (until a year after first meeting), careful with money, etc.

From what you described, I doubt that your "date" had half of these qualities.

Even with my fiancee's qualities, I had to walk away (it was mutual).  Why?  She was spoiled from having been pampered for years and from having been pursued constantly by interesting RM.  My first clue was our first date.  Even though my fiancee had worked off and on in Moscow, she did not know how to ride the metro at age 41!  She had always ridden in a limo or taxi.  It fascinated me (except for the part when the gates slammed into her); yet, I should have realized then her nature. 

Along you come, Steve, a nice guy from a small town with a job so exciting that your primary thought is retiring which is 15 years aways.  It would never work.  So next time, set you sights on a RW in your league, not just looks but with regard to values and goals.

Now if a man is from NYC or LA or Miami, knows how to travel in the fast lane, and likes fast women on his arm, go ahead.  There are plenty of RW who expect to be treated well simply because they are beautiful, and if they are treated well, a man can lease them.


About your woman.  Definitely a pro-dater who probably has a few others like you in the queue.  Some of them are really good at fleecing an American man.  My English speaking taxi driver told me of how one RW showed up for the first meeting not wearing a coat even though it was late November.  Guess what she had the next day.  Yes, a new coat, and an expensive one.  So you did better than that man.  Nevertheless, are you sure you had a good time?

P. S.  If the word "greedy" turns you off, you perhaps should forgo RW. 

[Misha]

P. S.  If the word "greedy" turns you off, you perhaps should forgo RW. 

Don't agree with you there Gator. Have been around a fair number of normal, decent, wonderful Russian women. Yet, they never whined about "greedy" men.

[Gator]

Don't agree with you there Gator. Have been around a fair number of normal, decent, wonderful Russian women. Yet, they never whined about "greedy" men.

Maybe I am greedy.   

I heard it a few times, not always about me, but in how a couple of nice RW friends of my wife described their American dates who did not buy a delicious (and most expensive) cake with tea, counting rubles carefully in public, complaining about prices, saying everything is too expensive, insisting on buying a potato from the kartoshka wagon, and other acts that a RM would never do even though he has 1/10th the money of AM.   Then again, my wife is from Moscow!!! :hairraising:

[Misha]

I heard it a few times, not always about me, but in how a couple of nice RW friends of my wife described their American dates who did not buy a delicious (and most expensive) cake with tea, counting rubles carefully in public, complaining about prices, saying everything is too expensive, insisting on buying a potato from the kartoshka wagon, and other acts that a RM would never do even though he has 1/10th the money of AM.   Then again, my wife is from Moscow!!! :hairraising:

Well, it is my wife who has been teaching me how to be miserly with my money. Then again, she is not from Moscow.   

[kievstar]

I agree with Gator.  The very attractive RW will not like greedy men (maybe less attractive RW too but I do not know any).  Be careful how you talk about money around them because if your tight about money but say you have a lot of it - not going to go well with them. Not how much you spend but your willing to spend. 

Women know from my profile that I do well in career based on job title so a first date will be a nice restaurant.  If my profile had a different career and job title, than meeting a women for tea first would be acceptable.  Plus I have to eat and why eat alone.

I have referred a couple of guys to a higher end dating agency in Kiev in the past.  Mainly because they stated they had a lot of money.  Turns out it was a mistake because these men were tight on going to a restaurant on first date.  This is recipe for a disaster.  Lady will be pissed and will not act normal on date.  RW are funny to watch when there really pissed.  I am not talking when there pissed at someone they care about.  Pissed about someone they could care less about but stay with this person on a date anyways.  They will do things to take advantage of this greedy man.  Maybe even a shopping trip just to see this man get pissed.


 

[Caddydaddy]

Hi Steve,

Thank you for sharing your interesting story. I too will make my first experiences soon...

I wonder what some of the RW women may think of Western men. Are we all billionaires or are most of us talking here just good to upper middleclass with a good living? It gives me the heebie-feebies reading about "golden toilets" and "diamond rings" just to boast around to the friends what some RW seem to wish.

Such women should rather look for an oligarch or maybe Donald Trump, he is used to throw his "wifes" away after some years, maybe there soon is a place free, hehe.
Or they could try www.millionairematch.com (I am provocative, I know, sorry)

I am too wondering if there are false rumours about the "Golden West" among the RW who are searching abroad. Well, myself I just want a good woman who matches to me in the long term, but the longer the more all this RW business seems strange to dubious with lots of traps to me.

Regards,
CaddyDaddy