TR to Moscow

[Sculpto]

You make good points Misha and is clearly something I need to think about more.  While I like a bit of drama I do not like depression.  I am not sure that is what is going on though.  I need to know her more and have a better understanding of the dynamics of what puts her in a mood and what gets her out of it.

Something I am finding very interesting though.. when we were only chatting and had not met IRL she never once showed me a bad mood.. now that I do know her IRL and we have connected on an emotional level she has opened up with her moods.  I am sure they were there all along.. and in fact she often warned me that she is moody, but, I never saw it at the time. 

Anyway.. the question will be simply if she can handle my artists moods.. if she can handle me when I am in a funk than I have to be able to deal with her when she is.  I do not get into those moods as easily or as often as I did years ago.  At the end of the day one must know if the good outweighs the bad because no one is happy all the time.

[Misha]

when we were only chatting and had not met IRL she never once showed me a bad mood..

Which is why no amount of virtual communication will ever replace quality face-to-face time where you truly try to get to know a person (as opposed to trying to rationalize whey they are perfect for you).

in fact she often warned me that she is moody, but, I never saw it at the time. 

Well, men often do not want to see what is there and simply project their fantasies onto a woman.

[Ooooops]

My reasoning is simple: a woman who is happy and content in Russia, will be happy and content in her new home if she has a decent husband, though she may go through a few rough patches with culture shock. A woman who is morose (a 'funk' as you call it) or is dealing with other issues in Russia, will inevitably be even more more and dealing with even more issues in her new country regardless of how much support she gets from her man.

I respectfully disagree.   I wasn't happy in Russia that's why I left.   Now I'm happy.   

[Misha]

I respectfully disagree.   I wasn't happy in Russia that's why I left.   Now I'm happy.   

It depends. I would say that there is a difference between not being happy with one's country or wanting to improve one's life, and simply not being happy. There are some people who are not happy and it has nothing to do with the country. There is one woman that I know, a RW, who is morose. She exudes misery. She does it now a few years after her divorce and she did it while she was still married. I am certain she would have been the same in Russia. I, for one, looked for a happy, well-adjusted woman who was happy to leave Russia to be with her future husband. I wanted to be a husband, not an armchair psychologist for the rest of my life. 

[Sculpto]

Which is why no amount of virtual communication will ever replace quality face-to-face time where you truly try to get to know a person (as opposed to trying to rationalize whey they are perfect for you).


Well, men often do not want to see what is there and simply project their fantasies onto a woman.

First statement is absolutely true.  I hope by now everyone realizes that virtual communication is "AOLOVE" and not completely real.

Second statement is also true, though, not what has happened in my case.  The girl said she could be moody but never was actually moody until her father got sick.  Actually after putting some thought to it it kind of seems she has gottem increasingly moody as the crisis with her Father has progressed.  I could see how heavy Moscow was for her particularly when we rode the subway.  She never said so, but, it was clear she hated being in the tube and dealing with the crowds. 

[Sculpto]

It depends. I would say that there is a difference between not being happy with one's country or wanting to improve one's life, and simply not being happy. There are some people who are not happy and it has nothing to do with the country. There is one woman that I know, a RW, who is morose. She exudes misery. She does it now a few years after her divorce and she did it while she was still married. I am certain she would have been the same in Russia. I, for one, looked for a happy, well-adjusted woman who was happy to leave Russia to be with her future husband. I wanted to be a husband, not an armchair psychologist for the rest of my life. 

Your point is correct Misha.  However, the more I think about my situation the more clear it becomes that my girls current up and down moods have mroe to do with recent circumstances than an overall gloominess.  Overall balance?  Well, I honestly still don't know.  I think that will be illuminated in the coming months and especially when I go to see her in Feb and she will be with her family.  Even that is not foolproof though.. I mean, I am a decent person but if any girl saw me around my Father who I have gone through great pains to not emulate, she could possibly get a pretty negative idea about me.  I just can not tolerate to be around my Dad because he is the MOST negative person I have ever known who can manage to find fault in absolutely everything and everyone.  That is what made his "sweet life" comments so shocking to me.  Anyway, my point as it relates to my girl.. she IS currently going through a difficult period.. I do not believe she is fundamentally depressed though I have my blinders off and am looking very carefully to confirm it.  Real clinical depression would absolutely be a deal breaker for me. 

[Sculpto]

btw.. I sent this poem to my girl yesterday after the yahoo chat and when I spoke to her today she seemed to have a better understanding of who I am and what I want.  I told her she is my "free bird"...

I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings
   
 
  The free bird leaps
on the back of the wind
and floats downstream
till the current ends
and dips his wings
in the orange sun rays
and dares to claim the sky.

But a bird that stalks
down his narrow cage
can seldom see through
his bars of rage
his wings are clipped and
his feet are tied
so he opens his throat to sing.

The caged bird sings
with fearful trill
of the things unknown
but longed for still
and is tune is heard
on the distant hillfor the caged bird
sings of freedom

The free bird thinks of another breeze
an the trade winds soft through the sighing trees
and the fat worms waiting on a dawn-bright lawn
and he names the sky his own.

But a caged bird stands on the grave of dreams
his shadow shouts on a nightmare scream
his wings are clipped and his feet are tied
so he opens his throat to sing

The caged bird sings
with a fearful trill
of things unknown
but longed for still
and his tune is heard
on the distant hill
for the caged bird
sings of freedom.

Maya Angelou
 

[UTRO]

I respectfully disagree.   I wasn't happy in Russia that's why I left.   Now I'm happy.   

But you wouldn't have left Russia to be with just Any man, now would you have Ooooops? No decent Woman, as yourself, ever would I'm sure that you never lowered your standards.

[TCH]

Hi Sculpto!

I`ve read all your topics. And what I can see is that you allways try to explain a mood of you girl, why she is doing like this and etc. And you find out the main reason of such her behavior is difficult cirqumstances she has. I see that you want to help her and you believe that she will feel happier.
But what I would like to say: there is such kind of people that allways complain - wherever they are and whatever they have. There are a lot of young people who have trubles in their life, who left their home too ealry and make their life themself.
However they are  still happy just because they live, they have friends, parents and they know that all problems are temporery. And what typically for women is that when they have a support from a man, even just a moral one, she feels stronger and dont pay attantion so much to bad things, because she takes care already about her man first of all, if she at least simpathizes for this man of course, and a man surely feel her appreciation.  That I didnt see in your topics and her relation to you.
So, I would advise you to look at all this more realistic. And first of all to find out if she needs you like a person, like a man she wants to be with (and you have to see it from her actions and feel it). Because otherwise it can be one day when you will be accused in all her "problems".
I understand that its not a positive what I said, but this is how it looks now...in my opinion.
 

[Sculpto]

TCH,
Thank you for the honest and thoughtful posting.  What you have said does not fall on deaf ears.  Right now I am very much paying attention to the little details you have mentioned.

I do want to say, however, you know I always have a "however".   

I have posted about the problems that have come up with my girl because they are either things I do not understand or because they have become "orange almost red flags".  What I have not posted about are all the good things and sweet things she has done, over the year we corresponded, when I was in Moscow, and since I have returned.  So, it might be possible that I am creating an image of the girl that she is always depressed and complaining.  That is not the case.  Most of the time she is in a positive mood and excited about something.  But, when she gets into a "dark mood" she is very dark.  The fact of the matter is, so am I.  98% of the time I am happy, having fun and fun to be around.  But, sometimes I can go into a dark funk that very few could understand.  Artists like to call it the "Artists Disease".  I would also say that I am VERY sensitive to any kind of complaining as I hate for people to suffer and I am a "fix it" guy.  I fix all kinds of things.. from broken hinges to ....

I will also mention there is one detail that I can not discuss in the forum that affected things this week.  I apologize to everyone for not being completely revealing but some things are too private for public forums, even if we are semi anonymous.  This particular problem has been rectified and as it was the main cause of the bad mood, the problem and bad mood no longer exists.

So, anyway, thanks again for posting something intelligent and thoughtful.  Your words were not in vain and I am very much paying attention to exactly what you said.  The next few days and weeks are going to be critical in the advancement of the relationship.  Today she bought her ticket back to Siberia and is going to stop on the way to spend some days with her Uncle and have some much needed rest.  I think once she is back at home her mood will be much better. 

[ScottinCrimea]

Sculpto, you are being wise to take the time to evaluate her moods to see if these are a situational thing or reflective of something deeper.  For example, someone may date a slow cycling bipolar while she is in the high cycle and everything is wonderful, they get married, and then the low cycle hits and they wonder who this alien is that they married.

In another post, I talked about men deluding themselves into thinking that things will change when "this" happens or when "that" happens and then "this' and "that" happen, nothing changes and they create a new endpoint.  We see that with many who think that all their woman's problems will be solved if they can just get her to the US and away from everything that is supposedly causing these problems, never once imagining that she is the problem because whenever he is there visiting for a week or two, they have a great time together.

You seem well aware of the things to watch for, without needing to feel paranoid or search too deep for things that aren't there.  Admittedly, I do see a few rationalizations on your part, but like you say, we don't have the whole picture.  As long as you are sure that you do, that's what is important.

[MatryoshkaMan]

Hi my friend Scuplto, am I out of order asking how your relationship is going now 7 months after the last post in this thread. Was a new one started? I read a lot of this and it was a fascinating read for me, the most in depth that I have seen. Makes me feel that I should post more about my journey with RW going all the way back to 1999 way before this site existed!

[Sculpto]

Things have been awesome.  I think there are a couple of other threads relative to my journey.  The current one is really premature as we are going to Mexico for month starting in October but I have been posting about the visa experience and our travel plans.