TR to Moscow

[possum]

Be careful On Obama he did get a congratulations from Iran.  In his speech he clearly stated that Iran and the development in Nukes is not going to be tolerated.  He said that when dealing with Iran the reply to the congratulations was not to be made in haste.

Not the words of someone that is looking to have Tea and Crumpets with them.  If anything he sent a very strong message to the opposite side of the debate.

Actually, now that I think about it, he sent an even stronger message to Iran when he named Rahm Emmanuel as his chief of staff..

[possum]

In a sense yes. Similar states can be achieve when very sick and you are running a high fever whereby you will see hallucinations.

I wonder if we should all try and get sick now, so that after a hallucination or two we can continue this discussion on a level that would be acceptable to some of our more enlightened friends..

[Sculpto]

Well, yeah.. they starve themselves into that state of mind..

LOl if thats what you think.. I wonder how many Tibetan monks you have known?  BTW.. Northern California has the largest number of Tibetan exiles outside of India.

[Sculpto]

Be careful On Obama he did get a congratulations from Iran.  In his speech he clearly stated that Iran and the development in Nukes is not going to be tolerated.  He said that when dealing with Iran the reply to the congratulations was not to be made in haste.

Not the words of someone that is looking to have Tea and Crumpets with them.  If anything he sent a very strong message to the opposite side of the debate.

walk softly and carry a big stick.. watch the Iran threat diminish and probably disappear over the next few years.

[Misha]

LOl if thats what you think.. I wonder how many Tibetan monks you have known?  BTW.. Northern California has the largest number of Tibetan exiles outside of India.

Well, the phenomenon is not limited to Tibetan Monks. Fasting and praying will lead to a similar phenomenon no matter what the religion. Catholics fasting and praying would see revelations from God (a la Joan of Arc); protestants who are also pushing themselves to fatigue, praying and singing rhythmic hymns will begin to "speak in tongues" and so on and so forth.

[possum]

Well, the phenomenon is not limited to Tibetan Monks. Fasting and praying will lead to a similar phenomenon no matter what the religion. Catholics fasting and praying would see revelations from God (a la Joan of Arc); protestants who are also pushing themselves to fatigue, praying and singing rhythmic hymns will begin to "speak in tongues" and so on and so forth.

Exactly!. That's why you have to question any far-out concept that you suspect may have been conceived in an altered state of mind..

[Sculpto]

I wonder if we should all try and get sick now, so that after a hallucination or two we can continue this discussion on a level that would be acceptable to some of our more enlightened friends..

lol make all the jokes you want but clearly you are unwilling to admit there are realms of experience and knowledge that you are both unwilling and incapable of understanding.  

So, to turn this around a bit.. according to a part of my research many people in Siberia believe in the "Snowman" and there is also a larger than normal number of UFO sightings that originate in Siberia.  So, following a linear methodology of analysis should we conclude that Siberia is full of delusional people that believe in Snowmen and Little Green Men from Mars?  Or, could there be some other non linear explanation?

BTW.. is anyone watching the show "Fringe" on Fox?

[Misha]

Or, could there be some other non linear explanation?

Large quantities of vodka and samogon? 

[Sculpto]

Well, the phenomenon is not limited to Tibetan Monks. Fasting and praying will lead to a similar phenomenon no matter what the religion. Catholics fasting and praying would see revelations from God (a la Joan of Arc); protestants who are also pushing themselves to fatigue, praying and singing rhythmic hymns will begin to "speak in tongues" and so on and so forth.

Misha have you personally experienced such things or are you only relating something you have read?  Again if you have not experienced these kinds of phenomena is it really fair to pass judgement or be critical?   Meditative states whether induced the concentration, chanting, fasting of any combination thereof still allow a person a view into another experiential realm.  Certainly in the case of people who are unstable to begin with such practices could lead to other forms of delusional behavior, yet, there are certainly plenty of people who these kinds of experiences not only enlightening but are exactly what keeps them grounded and humble int he face of a giant and unexplained universe.  Who are we to criticize?

[possum]

lol make all the jokes you want but clearly you are unwilling to admit there are realms of experience and knowledge that you are both unwilling and incapable of understanding. 

So, to turn this around a bit.. according to a part of my research many people in Siberia believe in the "Snowman" and there is also a larger than normal number of UFO sightings that originate in Siberia.  So, following a linear methodology of analysis should we conclude that Siberia is full of delusional people that believe in Snowmen and Little Green Men from Mars?  Or, could there be some other non linear explanation?

BTW.. is anyone watching the show "Fringe" on Fox?

Tomsk and Novosibirsk have a large population of young IT specialists who are very well-versed in computer graphics.. I think that accounts for about 99,9% of the recent 'sightings'..

[Sculpto]

Exactly!. That's why you have to question any far-out concept that you suspect may have been conceived in an altered state of mind..

OK, now you are gettng closer.. take your same statement.. and make some simple change..

revision: Exactly!. That's why you have to question any concept that you suspect may have been conceived by a human mind..

[possum]

Fake UFO sighting near Moscow..

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHNotr87B4o[/youtube]

[Sculpto]

Large quantities of vodka and samogon? 

I wondered when Vodka would enter into this equation.. haha

[Sculpto]

Tomsk and Novosibirsk have a large population of young IT specialists who are very well-versed in computer graphics.. I think that accounts for about 99,9% of the recent 'sightings'..

well what about the Snowman?  I mean seriously.. how is it possible this yeti exists almost EVERYWHERE???  is everyone delusional?

[Misha]

well what about the Snowman?  I mean seriously.. how is it possible this yeti exists almost EVERYWHERE???  is everyone delusional?

Well, people have certain expectations as to what they could see. If there is belief in Yeti, then anything that is seen will be channeled via this preexisting knowledge and this will be true if the person is in a normal consciousness or in a state of altered consciousness. Simply put, if you believe in Yeti's you are more likely to see Yeti's and if you believe in UFO's you are also more likely to interpret any unexplained experience you may have as a UFO sighting.

[SANDRO43]

well what about the Snowman?  I mean seriously.. how is it possible this yeti exists almost EVERYWHERE???  is everyone delusional?

Tibetan religion is a syncretic mixture of Buddhism and the pre-existing Bôn shamanism.

The Bardo Thodol - often referred to in the West as the "Tibetan Book of the Dead" -  is their funerary text: its 42 chapters are read aloud, one each day, to the deceased during the 42 days the corpse is kept at home before being exposed to the action of birds of prey (wood is too scarce up there to be wasted for cremations).

It's enough to drive one to see walking Snowmen, given the deplorable absence of Pink Elephants at that altitude .

[Sculpto]

Well, people have certain expectations as to what they could see. If there is belief in Yeti, then anything that is seen will be channeled via this preexisting knowledge and this will be true if the person is in a normal consciousness or in a state of altered consciousness. Simply put, if you believe in Yeti's you are more likely to see Yeti's and if you believe in UFO's you are also more likely to interpret any unexplained experience you may have as a UFO sighting.

Ok, so that is a logical and linear explanation.  however.. and you knew there would be a "however".. lol

in 1999 I was in the Black Rock Desert north of Reno after the Burning Man festival.  It was three days after the festival had ended and with some friends were involved in cleaning up our area.  That night four of us were relaxing and resting.  No one was drunk or hallucinating on anything.  All four of us observed a bright green light at about 2000 feet elevation crossing over the desert at a very high rate of speed without making a sound. 

Or.. and this one was even better...

In 1993 my mentor in Sculpture died in a freak accident during the floods of that year.

http://www.cultureport.com/cultureport/artists/eldred/index.html
 
This gentleman had spent a career working with light, but, he had always maintained he would create his greatest work upon his death.  After his death there was a memorial held on the ground of my art school.  Hundreds of sculptors attended and spoke about a man who had influenced a lot of very rational people.  After the actual service ended a giant spread of food was offered inside the sculpture building.  As people began to eat and socialize the weather changed.  The temperature rose to a perfect 72 degrees, the wind completely stopped and the air filled with humidity.  suddenly right above the campus a double rainbow appeared.. in a sky without rain.  over 250 artists and academics witnessed this.  We all stood there in silence understanding that what we were wtinessing was way beyond explanation.  To this day whenever anyone who was there gets together it remains the primary topic of discussion.

[Misha]

Well, coincidences do happen. It is an error of logic to presume that if A follows B, that A caused B. The believer will see miracles everywhere, the non-believer will look for a rational explanation.

[Sculpto]

You would never convince ANYONE who was there it was simply a coincidence.

[Misha]

You would never convince ANYONE who was there it was simply a coincidence.

For those who believe, a shower will be proof of a miracle 

[Sculpto]

do you really think 250+ artists of different ages and beliefs are so easily categorized?

[Misha]

do you really think 250+ artists of different ages and beliefs are so easily categorized?

Yes. Call it group hypnosis or the collective desire to believe.

[Sculpto]

Given the circumstances surrounding the actual event as it took place and the statements made by the artist before he died... well..  it is too bizarre to be simply written off as a coincidence..

artist claims he will create best work after death
mourners gather to pay respects
service ends
weather changes within 15 minutes
double rainbow appears directly over campus in region where even single rainbows are considered rare

the point is things happen that defy explanation.. once again proving the multi dimensional reality in which we live

[Chicagoguy]

Where is the "Off Topic Icon" ?

[Misha]

Given the circumstances surrounding the actual event as it took place and the statements made by the artist before he died... well..  it is too bizarre to be simply written off as a coincidence..

That is why they are called coincidences If they were mundane, nobody would pay any attention to them.

artist claims he will create best work after death

Did artist specify that the work after death would be the rainbows? No. You simply linked two events that are independent events.

double rainbow appears directly over campus in region where even single rainbows are considered rare

May be rare, but still happens.

the point is things happen that defy explanation.. once again proving the multi dimensional reality in which we live

Well, it proves to you your belief, but to a skeptic such as myself it is still a coincidence. Perhaps rare, but a coincidence nonetheless.