Support information needed please

[mark30378]

My girl has her interview on November 1st in Moscow. Foe the last 4 years I have been a student and worked part time at Home depot and went to school. I also restore pianos and am paid cash money. This year I have less classes and more hours and money on paper from Home Depot but only in the 10K range so far this year. I have made over 6K cash with the pianos. How do I set up the papers for her to take to interview for my income? How should I do this? Should I send a copy of my check stub from Home Depot and a notorized letter from my other employer that states what I have been paid? Time is coming close and I am worried they may say I do not make enough because I was a student fulltime before. I also have heard that you may have a co-signer. Is this true? And if so, what for is needed for this? I am 8 classes away from my Bachelors degree and will then make well enough to support us but I need it now. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

[PeeWee]

[user=461]mark30378[/user] wrote:

My girl has her interview on November 1st in Moscow. Foe the last 4 years I have been a student and worked part time at Home depot and went to school. I also restore pianos and am paid cash money. This year I have less classes and more hours and money on paper from Home Depot but only in the 10K range so far this year. I have made over 6K cash with the pianos. How do I set up the papers for her to take to interview for my income? How should I do this? Should I send a copy of my check stub from Home Depot and a notorized letter from my other employer that states what I have been paid? Time is coming close and I am worried they may say I do not make enough because I was a student fulltime before. I also have heard that you may have a co-signer. Is this true? And if so, what for is needed for this? I am 8 classes away from my Bachelors degree and will then make well enough to support us but I need it now. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

Good luck, Mark. this may not be the same but I applied for a visa for a friend of mine, several years ago, I sent 12 months bank statements, a letter from my employer stating my income.  I think the letter will work. But is it not your projected annual income anyway? So why not have both employers write a letter, as I did, that states your projected annual income?

 

PeeWee

[mark30378]

Yes, I will try this. I was thinking of having it written out and then notarized. Only problem is Home Depot does not allow managers to sigh such papers. You mush go through this new web site and pay for work history. This particular service does not list current wage and it is not on company letterhead as specified on embassy web site. I was thinking of writing to consulate and explaning. I have not decided yet. Thanks for the help and the response.

[jb]

Mark,

You have good reason to worry about the income numbers.  According to the guidelines listed in the BCIS Handbook they will look for an amount equal to, or greater, than 125% of the Federal Poverty Guidelines, for a family of two (you and her), that amounts to $16,037.00 minimum annual income.

I'd suggest a co-signer would be your best bet for the moment if you see your current annual income looks to be iffy.

[RacerX]

Mark,

You sound a little young to be doing all of this, which is fine, just that you may need to ask your parents or relatives for some help. They would simply fill-out an I-134 (same as you) and along with a cover letter, attach it to yours.

These 'international relationships' are very expensive as you may know - so it's rare for an 'applicant' to worry much about the financial requirements of the US gov. since you will need many times that to make a go of it.

[PeeWee]

Mark,

You sound a little young to be doing all of this, which is fine, just that you may need to ask your parents or relatives for some help. They would simply fill-out an I-134 (same as you) and along with a cover letter, attach it to yours.

These 'international relationships' are very expensive as you may know - so it's rare for an 'applicant' to worry much about the financial requirements of the US gov. since you will need many times that to make a go of it.

A good idea, Racer. How does anyone know what their cash contribution might be for this adventure? She may be bringing money to the table as well. Although young, Mark, sounds like one of the sharper tools in the shed. I too had read about the 18k minimum income. Based on the gross. It sounds as if he might be over that even now. AT 16K YTD with 4 months to go he should clear 20K at least.

PeeWee

[jb]

Unfortunately, Peewee, the interview is Nov 1 of this year.  The requirements are IRS 1040's for the previous three years showing a three year average income at least 125% above National Poverty Guidelines.
  http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/W
What he might earn in the last quarter of 2005 is not gonna cut it.

He needs help now, and the best way to get it is to have a solvent relative co-sign off on the support issue. A supplemental Affidavit of Support should do the trick nicely.

[RacerX]

Just as a point of clarification, the Poverty Guidelines don't apply to non-immigrant visas, such as a K-1.  

Exactly what income would be required is at the discretion of the consular officer, although common guidance is that you should make at least the poverty minimums.  The only real worry is the CO could ask for more if he/she  felt your income was poorly established.  If so, you would be asked to submit evidence for the additional support as a supplement, so she could get the visa after only a short delay.

[PeeWee]

Unfortunately, Peewee, the interview is Nov 1 of this year. The requirements are IRS 1040's for the previous three years showing a three year average income at least 125% above National Poverty Guidelines.
http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/W
What he might earn in the last quarter of 2005 is not gonna cut it.

He needs help now, and the best way to get it is to have a solvent relative co-sign off on the support issue. A supplemental Affidavit of Support should do the trick nicely.

Hey, jb, is that your fuzzy mug over there on the left? Come 25 years from now you are going to be my odds on favorite for the Santa replacement.

Regarding Mike. I am happy that he can accomplish his mission with the help from a co sign. I wonder what the poverty level has to do with it anyway? I'd estimate that even double poverty level would not cut it. I am well past poverty level by many times and I worry that I might not support me, a wife, a new daughter, and a son in college. I'm telling her that she should consider working and I think she will do it as long as she knows it is her money. The "her money" seems to be a very important issue with her. I can understand it. I do believe that it all has to do with being and feeling independent.

Drive on, Mike, you can do it.

PeeWee

[jb]

Just as a point of clarification, the Poverty Guidelines don't apply to non-immigrant visas, such as a K-1.

Just as a point of clarification, if you sign a K-1 application, it is considered an act of sponsorship to a potential immigrant, by it's very nature.

I quote from the BCIS handbook:

As a sponsor, your household income must equal or exceed 125 percent of the Federal poverty line for your household size.  For the purpose of the affidavit of support, household size includes yourself, all person related to you by birth, marriage, or by adoption living in your residence, your dependents, any immigrants you have previously sponsored using INS form I-864 if that obligation is not terminated, and the intending immigrant(s) in Part 3 of this affidavit of support. The poverty guidelines are calculated and published annually by the Department of Health and Human Services.

etc.,,,,  yes, you are on the hook for the welfare of these K-1 possible immigrants if you submit the I-129F, and you must meet the criterion to have the visa issued.  It's the law.

[PeeWee]

As a sponsor, your household income must equal or exceed 125 percent of the Federal poverty line for your household size. For the purpose of the affidavit of support, household size includes yourself, all person related to you by birth, marriage, or by adoption living in your residence, your dependents, any immigrants you have previously sponsored using INS form I-864 if that obligation is not terminated, and the intending immigrant(s) in Part 3 of this affidavit of support. The poverty guidelines are calculated and published annually by the Department of Health and Human Services.

etc.,,,, yes, you are on the hook for the welfare of these K-1 possible immigrants if you submit the I-129F, and you must meet the criterion to have the visa issued. It's the law.[/quote]
jb, I was talking to my friend's attorney about the welfare responsibility for the sponsor. She told me that it was not always inforced. I had thought it was an automatic but the reason I asked was because I had heard about it and because I know a fellow who married two Russian women, divorced both of them, and in both cases was not on placed on the hook for anything. It is possible that the two women did not ask for support or that they had jobs which would remove them from the welfare rolls. i don't know.

 

PeeWee

[jb]

Peewee,

It doesn't matter that no one enforces the affidavit of support, it is still a piece of paper that is required for the visa to be issued.  The one most often used at the K-1 interview is the short form, the big one (I-864) is where they hold your feet a bit closer to the fire for the Adjustment of Status.  

So, the story goes, if you want the K-1 visa, you have to do all the paperwork.  If you want the green card, you have to do more paperwork.

[mark30378]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think it is probally best if I send maybe a check stub and statement of my employment along with my college transcripts showing that I was full time enrolled and now I work many more hours and my salary is and will be more than earlier. I have worked there for 5 years and have very good insurance which I also will explain to counselor. I do not know how to prove my income from my side jobs at present. i can claim all on my tax forms next year but then is too late. I have very close friend who will co-sign with me if I need. If i do this what should I state in the letter. Or how should I word it. Should I go ahead and have him fill out the form and send it to her or should i send in my part and wait to see if they request it? I want everything to go smoothly when she goes and not postpone her coming if she must make new appointment to give new papers to them. What do you think about me writing a sworn statement about my cash income this year and having it notorized. Will this make any difference or will they not count it as anything. All day as I think about this I realize it is crazy anyway. Because I could have a tremendous income and have so much debt and child support, credit cards, etc.. that I could not afford a cup of coffee and I would easily qualify. But as now, I have family home that I live in alone and have no rent or house payment, I make decent money but because of my full time school until May has made my income show less on paper, and I have a little over 10K saved in bank, I do not qualify. Even though I have somewhat low income due to my school I live very comfortably. It is crazy, and makes me crazy worring about it.

[mark30378]

I have just did the math and I have 10 pay periods left in this year along with my vacation pay. which my average pay sould give me $19,261 plus my vacation pay which should be around $512 and I had another job that paid me a little over $500 back in March that I have check stub for. All together I should expect $20,000 gross for this year not including my cash money I have made. Do you think they will look at it they way I am describing and take into account my schooling if I send transcripts proving dates and amount of classes? Also should I send in information like this and not send I-134 until they ask for it? Or is it mandatory to fill it out. I have had people tell me both but I think you guys know allot more than the people I have been asking because they are mostly Ukranian and have came here under a different type of visa.

[jb]

Mark,

I don't know how to tell you this any other way than straight from the sholder.  The Consul Officer will want to see evidence that you can support this woman if he grants her the K-1 visa, which he, quite rightly, expects will lead to marriage.  The usual method of showing this support is to see your last three year's income tax returns, in other words, they are looking for a track record, a history, of earnings that help them make an informed decision based on the here and now, what you might earn in the future is not evidence.  Their job is to make sure there will not be another potential welfare case after she steps off the airplane.

If you are unable to show that you have made 125% of the national poverty level guidelines I mentioned up thread for the past three years, then you are going to need a co-signer.  That co-signer will also have to provide evidence (IRS 1040's), of earnings for those same three years if the application is to be approved.

I'm sorry to sound negative about your chances of getting a K-1 visa without difficulty, but without a co-signer your chances are slim.  Oh, and one other thing, they really like the co-signer to be a member of your family rather than simply a friend.  It has been my experience, and that of just about every other man on the board, that most CO's take their jobs very seriously, your visa app will be denied in a heart beat if you don't meet or exceed the requirements.

P.S., I have heard that some CO's will accept a single year's earnings instead of insisting on three years worth.  If you were earning $40-50K that would probably be the case, but if you look weak on paper they may lean on you a bit harder than otherwise.

[andrewfi]

Just a thought, is it fair, or right to ask somebody else to take over your responsibilities to your marriage?

This is not like a credit agreement for a car, with an asset that can be sold, a fixed term and fixed payments.

If your marriage fails, your 'friend' could be on the hook for hundreds(?) of thousands of dollars over a decade, or if I understand correctly, possibly even longer.

If I were your friend, I would be refusing and suggesting that if you can not demonstrate your ability to undertake your cmmittments, then you should not be undertaking them at all. If I were your friend and told you that, I would probably be the best friend you ever had.

You are a poor kid, you do not have the proverbial pot in which to p!ss, although you might one day. You can't afford a girlfriend, let alone a wife. It is unfair and wrong to be bringing a woman to a life where she canexpect a greater degree of real poverty than she has in her home country, where her husband can not demonstrate the ability to support her at a very difficult and expensive time.

Frankly, the only woman likely to marry you under such circumstances is one who is terminally dim, or one who is intending to use you as her ticket to the US, access to the US welfare system and little more.

[mark30378]

Yes, because if my marriage happens to fail then I will automatically go on wellfare and become living in total life of poverty and my friend will have to take over my responsabilities.
I came here looking for friendly advice on a  question I had, which until now I have recieved. I did not come here looking for biased opinion of person who does not know me or my situition. And for my finances, For the 10 years prior to my going back to college I made over 60K  per year and have owned 2 businesses of my own. I had enough savings to pay my way fully through 4 years of college with a family and keep all the car payments, house payments, groceries, etc... while I worked part-time only to keep my health insurance. I have made money before and I only have  (on Paper) a smaller income because of this. I worked minium hours only for insurance on my child. I am a piano technician also but when I do this I am paid cash ($35 per hour) and for me it is better to keep it that way. How much is average salary in Estonia? Is it enough to make such statement about anothers affairs which you have no real idea?
This message does not pertain to other people who have been very helpful with my question. To all previous, you answers were greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[BC]

Andrew,

From what I can tell Mark is still quite young, but striving.

I'm sure if he would marry a local woman no one would bat an eye.

I started at ground 0 many years ago with less than Mark. Not defending his actions but we older folks tend to see things a bit skewed. If we were talking a 40's++ man in the same boat I would agree that something is amiss.

Here we can only hope that Mark has been able to spend some quality time with his gf, that she knows a good bit about the lifestyle conditions that await her and that her expections are very minimal. We have very few known facts on which to base our opin in this area.

As jb indicates there are still some big hurdles ahead. In the end, financial responsibility / K1 considerations aside I think her expectations will likely make or break the deal.

The CO has his work set that's for sure. If I were a CO I would give a family member co-signing a hundredfold more weight than a 'friend'. Not being able to show direct family support for the relationship might raise eyebrows even further.

[Bruno]

You are a poor kid, you do not have the proverbial pot in which to p!ss, although you might one day. You can't afford a girlfriend, let alone a wife. It is unfair and wrong to be bringing a woman to a life where she canexpect a greater degree of real poverty than she has in her home country, where her husband can not demonstrate the ability to support her at a very difficult and expensive time.

Frankly, the only woman likely to marry you under such circumstances is one who is terminally dim, or one who is intending to use you as her ticket to the US, access to the US welfare system and little more.

You are hard Andrew... Is this "game" only reserved for old man who big asset ? If i good understand, Mark is always studying... so, he is certainly enough young and have the support from parents...

Andrew, since you life in FSU, you see certainly so situation localy each day... very young woman who marry a man, same if both are always student... in so case, both family are the support... why this cannot happen to foreign marriage...

I find more honest and logic to see a young guy with a potential future marry a young girl that a old man rich, almost dead who marry a young babe...

Since we know almost nothing about Mark, before make conclusion, ask him his real situation and detail... of course, if you was really his friend, you will know these detail... Maybe Mark is the son of a very rich family and will be director from the father factory when he finish his bachelor degree... or maybe he is from a family living in trailer park... We don't know, so, we are not able to make some conclusion...

When i have stop with army, i have follow school during one year for my new work... in these periode, my income was below our povrety level but i was with around one year normal income on my bank account... I was not poor, i was at school for give a new way to my professional life... before begin this formation, i have already know for who i go work after school, my contract was ready...

If some fear about the situation of Mark, send him your question but stop use your imagination... make comment based on fact and not on your own nightware...


Edit : It seem that Mark and BC was more fast for reply that me... so, now we know that Mark is not specialy so young... but that he was a succesful business man... that he have choice to study ( who can only lead to a bigger income in the future )... asking him the information was more friendly that make hard comment based on nothing we know.

[andrewfi]

I am not an expert on the K1 visa process, but my understanding, ready to be corrected, is that the income thresholds also take into consideration income from one's assets. If Mark is so wealthy then he will have no problems with his application, no cosigner needed. If he is so poor that he can not then everything else, that may have happened in the past is simply, and sadly, bluster.

Is it right or good that one who can not demonstrate that they are anything more than poverty stricken can avoid his responsibilities and get somebody else to assume them? Even if this is not the intent at the point of signature?

Is it fair to his interlocutor to bring her to a strange country, with nothing, to live with a guy who has income that is, at best, slightly above nationally defined standards for poverty? Bringing someone from poverty to face more of it. Great deal, eh?

Is it responsible to ask somebody else to take on a burden that this guy can not at this moment meet?

Am I hard?

I think not. I would not sign as guarantor to another person's loan application. I would not recommend it to others. This is an open ended committment, no fixed term and no fixed amount. And possibly, just as important, if the marriage has difficulties, Mark will not be in a position to deal in the best way with the outcome. As well as responsibilities to himself, his family and to his wife he will have to deal with the consequences of his actions upon the person who signed as guarantor. IE, he may have to choose actions that are not what he wants, in order to minimise the risk to his cosignee.

BC ~ Taking a person from one country to another to live permanently is not quite the same as two people, each able to contribute to their future and building that future, together. Mark and his girlfriend will have to do something very different with a different set of responsibilities.

Mark, if you can do so well for yourself, then you will again, but for now, you are not in a position, given what you have told, us to afford to do what you want to do. The income requirements are made for good reason... BTW, my income is hardly germane to the discussion, but unlike you who languish in the lower 12% of incomes in a country that is your home, my income is already in the top few % in an adopted country. Of course, even in absolute terms that is more than your good self.

More importantly, I have made the move from one country to another, I have some inkling of what is necessary. I have learned that being poor is not something that one wants, or that one would wish on another person in such a move. That is not to say it can not be done, just that it should not be done.

[mark30378]

We understand that you are not and expert. Maybe you should begin a topic for your question on the process because this one began from a question from me. And the top few percent of nothing is still nothing.

[KenC]

[user=461]mark30378[/user] wrote:

.
I came here looking for friendly advice on a question I had, which until now I have recieved. I did not come here looking for biased opinion of person who does not know me or my situition.

By definition, you are asking for advice from people that don't know you on this forum.  This particular forum usually gives you straight answers and doesn't always blow sunshine up your azz.  (There are plenty of other forums for that.)  Is it more important to you that the advice be "friendly" or correct?  Based on the information you previously provided, Andrew is giving you some "good" information to consider.

 And for my finances, For the 10 years prior to my going back to college I made over 60K per year and have owned 2 businesses of my own. I had enough savings to pay my way fully through 4 years of college with a family and keep all the car payments, house payments, groceries, etc... while I worked part-time only to keep my health insurance. I have made money before and I only have (on Paper) a smaller income because of this. I worked minium hours only for insurance on my child. I am a piano technician also but when I do this I am paid cash ($35 per hour) and for me it is better to keep it that way.

This new information gives us a better insight into your life's plan, however bringing a RW to America is not a small financial burden.  Even at the $60K income level, it would be a huge financial burden.  At your present income level, I don't see how it would be possible.

How much is average salary in Estonia?

Feel better now?  Attacking the poster because you didn't like the advice is rather immature now, isn't it? 

Is it enough to make such statement about anothers affairs which you have no real idea?

You came here for exactly that reason.  For strangers to advise you on your position, which you are responsible for explaining.

This message does not pertain to other people who have been very helpful with my question. To all previous, you answers were greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Oh, I see, the advice is only "helpful", if you like it?

KenC

[mark30378]

What part of any of his responses pertain to my question. O . And up until now and what I know will cost for the sret of the process it is not really an expensive cost. it cost only $165 to file papers and $100 for the interview plus small expenses and her plane ticket here can be pruchased for under $500. Giv a few hundred for mail, travel, ood and I think still under $1000. Not including my trip to Russia which cost no more than average vacation here.

[Bruce]

Mark, let us know how things turn out.  We all wish you the best of luck.  You know your situation and your girl.  Multiple posters gave you, as far as I am concerned, sound advice.  I urge you to make sure your ducks are in a row with immigration.   Immigration can be a mentally exhausting experience if you let it get to you.  In my experience costs have been higher than I anticipated in the continuing transition of my wife to USA life.   Good luck with the visa and I urge you to set aside a little more in your kitty for the unexpected that may arise for the two of you.   

[jb]

Mark,

Personally I think you are living in fantasy land if you think there will/it will continue to be such a cheap operation.  BTW, you neglected to mention the cost of the medical exam and getting her shot record up to date before the interview.  That will only add another $100-150 to the expense, but it must be money in hand for her before she can be issued a visa.

What KenC, myself, and others are thinking about is more likely the cost of upkeep after she arrives.  Remember, she is relocating her entire life and will have to do it in no more than two suitcases and a carry-on.  You will be buying her virtually an entirely new wardrobe and then she will start to remake your home over into her home.  All of this costs money.  There is also the additional cost of her medical insurance, factor in a car in a very short time, plus insurance for an inexperienced driver, plus, plus, plus.  The added expense to your bank account will be enormous.  

Getting her here is the least expensive part of the process.