How NOT to start out... An AFA tour to Odessa on UK TV last night

[Ade]

William,

I have been trying to make the connection between marriage agencies and the sex industry for a while.  The information Jack sent to me confirms what i was looking for.  Now the fun begins.  My first stop will be the district attorney of my fair city who happens to be very interested in the topic of trafficing. 

I know many of the affiliate agencies of AFA in Ukraine are also with HRB/RLM and AnastasiaWeb and many other sites.  This is the part where it is going to get really fun. 

What I have just seen is not only shocking but also disgusting. 

Did I miss something?

I thought William said they are a subsidiary owned by K4I but I saw no mention of trafficking or that the girls at the socials were in any way involved in the porn industry.

[msmoby_ru]

So in layman's terms, your telling me I have to pay you or somebody to see this film?

No

some kind soul has illegally posted a copy of the prog here:



http://thepiratebay.org/

search under "mail order bride" tick video, and download

I must add it wasn't me !!

[Ade]

No

some kind soul has illegally posted a copy of the prog here:



http://thepiratebay.org/

search under "mail order bride" tick video, and download

I must add it wasn't me !!

I watched it 30 minutes ago or so and I definitely felt very uncomfortable at times; I certainly can understand why Vinny left and went his own way.

Another observation; I didn't see that many very beautiful girls there either. Most were average, or at least average for where I live.

[msmoby_ru]

I watched it 30 minutes ago or so and I definitely felt very uncomfortable at times; I certainly can understand why Vinny left and went his own way.

Another observation; I didn't see that many very beautiful girls there either. Most were average, or at least average for where I live.

Hi SJ, yes you're right but Dawn did mention - quite a few times - that there were so many beautiful women in the city...from a brief stop-over there I'd agree !

[Sculpto]

I must admit to thinking you have a bizarre take on this, assuming I understand your position correctly.

My position is that everyone is ultimately responsible for the choices they make; yes, I can sympathise with some people and their luck for being born looking like the back end of a bus or whatever but that does not in any way excuse abusive behaviour towards others.

Yes, these agencies prey on those types of men and in the women brought in to satisfy them too and that is distasteful, but that does not excuse those guys bad choices.

And yes, I also feel some sympathy to the ugly/fat/weird but harmless "losers" that attract the young gorgeous green card girls and gold diggers but again, they are ultimately responsible for the choices they make.

I don't know if you have ever seen the TV show "Bernie Mac".  There was a great episode where Bernie was worried about getting sick and missing a trip to Vegas with his buddies because the kids were having a birthday party.. and you know kids and germs.. So, the party goes off and Bernie is extra careful not to catch the bug going around even though the kids fall sick the next day.. he is real proud of himself.. then he wakes up in the middle of the night.. heads to the fridge and finds the leftover birthday cake.. the same birthday cake the kid just blew out the candles on after being exposed to the flu.. he caught the flu and missed the vegas trip..

So, my point is yes, he is ultimately responsible for his choice to eat the cake.. but, he never even thought to verify if that cake might have been contaminated.

The agencies set out a real nice cake and some guys who are so lonely and desperate try to have a bite even though they know it seems too good to be true.  The power of hope is much greater than the power of reason. And, how do you think the "handlers" handle such guys?  You think they are told.. "give up fatso, you don't have a chance with that 22 year old hottie"?  Hell NO.  These men are encouraged and prodded and they are on a tour full of sex starved men and they really want to get some.. sex.. or love or affection or all the above.

I blame no one and I feel bad for everyone.  The only ones getting anything out of it are those that have made easy money off the hopes and dreams of lonely people.  Imagine how cynical a person must be to get rich abusing the hopes of lonely people.

[aikorob]

Ok guys-----Nata says lay off of AFA!!!!!!!!
She says they have the "best" reputation for socials--the best food and champagne.
All of her friends looked foward to this social all year long to eat and party.
No one thoght of AFA as a serious marriage agency---they were the only ones who did not check passports so that even her married friends attended.  She says girls brought their boyfriends, and one year even her father enjoyed the AFA dinner. It is a common practise for the social organizers to just go out on the street and randomly invite the pretty girls walking by to attend. Also, all of the ones she attended; the prostitutes were the ones "working" the WM the most.

She says either you have very good men or very good food to get the girls to a social.

[William3rd]

Your wife has it pegged. On the money. Lots of pros at the socials. In Kiev, the working girls would go right from the socials over to the River Palace to start their shift.

I see AFA got tossed from the Pulkhovskaya Hotel in SPB. I wonder how the new digs are. From 10 events to, what, 2 tours a year?

[Faux Pas]

No

some kind soul has illegally posted a copy of the prog here:



http://thepiratebay.org/

search under "mail order bride" tick video, and download

I must add it wasn't me !!

Thanks Mark! But I guess it's not to be. I downloaded it but nothing on my Mac to open it with. 

[Misha]

Thanks Mark! But I guess it's not to be. I downloaded it but nothing on my Mac to open it with. 

I have a Mac as well. I recommend Flip4Mac: http://www.flip4mac.com/. It is what I use to convert AVI files so I can open them with Quicktime.

[Ade]

Thanks Mark! But I guess it's not to be. I downloaded it but nothing on my Mac to open it with. 

I guess you just got the .torrent file. You need a torrent client like uTorrent to open that which will then download the real file(s) - they'll be a bunch of .rar files which will have to be extracted to get the .avi file.

[Misha]

I guess you just got the .torrent file. You need a torrent client like uTorrent to open that which will then download the real file.

Transmission is good for a Mac: http://www.transmissionbt.com/.

[Vinnvinny]

Can I ask how you think going on this trip taught you anything positive about the dating scene in Ukraine or even Russia -as AFA go there, too.

Hi Mark. From the outset I decided I wasn’t really interested in contacting ladies from websites and exchanging emails and phone calls with people I have never met isn’t really my thing. As we all know, you can find out more in 10 minutes with someone face to face than 100+ emails can ever tell you. The alternative to taking a tour would have been to throw myself in at the deep end … probably something I would have ‘thought’ about for way too long. What the trip taught was that that type of tour wasn’t for me. However, after I bailed out I ended up meeting a guy who had just come off one of Jack’s tours and he told me enough for me to realise that I would like to try that. So I did and for me it was a success. As a result I met 2 super ladies who it is highly unlikely I would have met (I had never heard of the agencies they came from) had I not taken my initial step to join that AFA tour. The big positive for me was not the tour itself but the accelerated learning curve I experienced and the aforementioned opportunities that were opened up to me.

I can not believe there are still guys going on AFA socials with all the news over the past few years 

Clearly there are as there were 40 guys on that tour which some of the ‘regulars’ told me was very high. That together with the ‘difficulties’ some of us had with the film crew's presence just about ensured that the level of service we received from AFA was just about zero. What's was more surprising to me was that some men go on these tours more than once. 

[msmoby_ru]

Hi Vinney, thanks for the response ..

Hi Mark. From the outset I decided I wasn’t really interested in contacting ladies from websites and exchanging emails and phone calls with people I have never met isn’t really my thing. As we all know, you can find out more in 10 minutes with someone face to face than 100+ emails can ever tell you.

Well, no, actually - *I* found that all that email and talking meant we were more relaxed open and honest  when we met ... we didn't feel the need to "make a good impression" .. but anyway ...

The alternative to taking a tour would have been to throw myself in at the deep end … probably something I would have ‘thought’ about for way too long. What the trip taught was that that type of tour wasn’t for me. However, after I bailed out I ended up meeting a guy who had just come off one of Jack’s tours and he told me enough for me to realise that I would like to try that. So I did and for me it was a success. As a result I met 2 super ladies who it is highly unlikely I would have met (I had never heard of the agencies they came from) had I not taken my initial step to join that AFA tour. The big positive for me was not the tour itself but the accelerated learning curve I experienced and the aforementioned opportunities that were opened up to me.

There's nothing better to educate you than to do all the arranging yourself, or with the help of the lady your are going to see - THAT is the deep end, and a real step learning curve...)

   But *I've* never been on any tour and had always had a fixed idea of the type of guy who would go on one...  more fool me , I guess !..

Clearly there are as there were 40 guys on that tour which some of the ‘regulars’ told me was very high. That together with the ‘difficulties’ some of us had with the film crew's presence just about ensured that the level of service we received from AFA was just about zero. What's was more surprising to me was that some men go on these tours more than once. 

What are differences betwen Jack's tour and the AFA one .. I mean the quality of the women, lower numbers of men...?

[Vinnvinny]

Well, no, actually - *I* found that all that email and talking meant we were more relaxed open and honest  when we met ... we didn't feel the need to "make a good impression" .. but anyway ...

What I meant by that comment is IMHO no amount of emails can reveal if there is the necessary chemistry to make a relationship work. Besides, having been married twice before and with 6 kids in tow I feel my ‘life story’ would have meant a lot of explaining .... and a lot of emails! 

But *I've* never been on any tour and had always had a fixed idea of the type of guy who would go on one...  more fool me , I guess !..

Despite what the documentary suggested there were actually a few decent, ‘normal’ and sound guys on that tour – I guess they wouldn’t have been so good for the ratings though.

What are differences betwen Jack's tour and the AFA one .. I mean the quality of the women, lower numbers of men...?

Numerous to such an extent that there is little comparison. Fewer men, higher quality of ladies (in both looks and being more sincere) and more personal and professional service too mention just a few. Plus, Jack also offers a few ideas in how to get the ladies initial attention that are in my experience unique and for me they definitely worked. In one particularly instance a lady was so impressed by this MO that, due to our own schedules not matching, she took an overnight train to a different City to meet me.

[Ade]

What I meant by that comment is IMHO no amount of emails can reveal if there is the necessary chemistry to make a relationship work. Besides, having been married twice before and with 6 kids in tow I feel my ‘life story’ would have meant a lot of explaining .... and a lot of emails! 

Well that explains the haggard look.

 

[Vinnvinny]

.... in fairness I was having a bit of a bad day when that photo was took. 

[Sculpto]

this article is reposted from the lillavilla site.  I do not know how true it really is but i thought it was interesting and a good read.

Thursday, 11 January 2007 
From the editor: All Characters and events in this article are real. Any similarity to actual events or persons, living or dead, is absolutely not co-incidental. Only the name of the agency has been changed.


As usual, I arrived to the office by 10 am. Today is Monday and we have a planning meeting. I am very surprised that Masha, the secretary of our boss, is humming a merry tune and arranging flowers at the reception. It could mean only one thing - we are blessed by  a visit of our boss. Can it be true that he arrived? He is not very often in the office. Our boss is an American. He is very respectable and important. He could not be any different having such a business! Yes, this is it: Masha has made his office ready. Damn, I will have to do without my morning cup of coffee today. Our boss doesn't like when we are late.

XXX

We were all present for the planning meeting. Seven interpreters! Bingo, we will have to work hard... Ok, we are taking notes: 14 foreign gentlemen... Hmm, gentlemen... Can you call a sex tourist a gentlemen? Ok, 11 Americans, 2 Canadians and 1 Mexican. Ok, yes, I understand.... to find accommodations, divide them into groups, assign an interpreter to each group... Of course, I am responsible for all organisational questions. Poor girls who are going to be responsible for collecting "material" for our customers, I would not want to be in their shoes. Oh ok, the collection is assigned to Natalia and Milena. Das ist gut. They will manage. They have an iron grasp. They will easily collect at least 300 ladies of every age and "colour".

So to say,. our boss got into the right stream (or the stream got our boss, go figure). To make a long story short, he met his wife (I think she is his fifth wife), in a marriage agency. Why he went there on the first place, nobody knows. But Galina was there in the right place at the right time. She didn't provide the matchmaking service for the potential groom but she did something absolutely different: it was so different that after one month our boss was dragging her to ZAGS to get married. Galina is someone who can be described "young but ripe". One has to have a special gift at 23 to get herself a 40 year old American with lots of money... What happened next was they simply opened their Klondike here in Russia. Before leaving her job in the marriage agency, Galina "took" the database of brides along with her. Together with her husband they decided to organise a "sell-the-russian-brides"marketplace. All in all that means that in one banquet hall they gather lots of "brides" who cannot wait to "sell" themselves to the foreigners. And there is no need to wait for the buyers. These guys come to Russia, can look at the commodity, and I must say, they have fun to the fullest. I am not blaming my boss though. If not for him, where could I possibly find such a great job and such good money?

29th of July 19xx

All this week we have been running around booking hotels, restaurants, etc... First customers are arriving today. I am going to meet them at the airport: I have booked the bus already. Ok, I have a trained smile, great makeup, everything is thought carefully.

 Ok, these are our dear guests. Very colourful people. Let us drive to the hotel, I will start getting to know them better once we arrive. God, why would I need these "grooms"? They are quite ordinary guys: some are thin, some are fat, they are dressed differently. But they all have something in common that makes them almost twin-brothers... No, not what you have just thought about... They all have this similar curious-disgusted-disdainful look... I had an impression that they came for safari and just entered the monkey-nursery. They are interested yet scared. And they have this knowledge that they are kings of the jungle here. But it's ok, they are allowed to feel superior. They have paid lots of money to come to Russia: 3000 -4000 dollars. Our interpreters make best money. They are paid per hour and in addition if a customer wants, wants, desires, desires... then our girl can translate even under the customer's bed. Then they make good extra money.

The evening of the same day

The more I communicate with these so called men, the more difficult it is for me to smile at them. God, such a slimy crowd! Look, that one, grey haired gentleman who looks very decent. He is 65, he has been married 4 times. He is considering himself a gigolo. His list of requirements for his future wife is just wow. And he is looking for someone up to 35 y.o. And look at that one: fat, bold "millionaire". For one hour today he was telling me what a bitch his ex wife was. Frankly, I would have also dumped this stinking piece of meat. Here is another one, a real idiot.  His brain definitely works binary. Poor girl who will marry him. "Knock, knock, where is your husband? - He is not around, he is on line..." And that colourful Mexican! What a man! I cannot believe that anyone can fall for this weirdo. He is so short, he will need to stand on a chair to kiss his bride.
And all our grooms are studying the catalogues of our girls, some are checking the profiles on the internet with a concerned look.

Just now we had a group meeting with our "grooms". When I asked them the question what they were looking for in Russia, they all answered the same: looking for a good, kind, intelligent, beautiful, loving and caring wife." "But it is more complex than finding someone locally", I told them. They immediately started to complain how awful American women are, that they don't love their men, that the only thing they want is money and career. Ok, ok, don't be so harsh, tomorrow, guys, you will have at least 20 girls for each of you. What's your problem?

30th of July 19xx

Wow, the guys have even tried to dress up! I wish they didn't do it. The Mexican is wearing a jacket that he definitely borrowed from Gulliver when he was visiting his Lilliputian country . And that red haired cowboy from Texas! Wow, such boots I have seen only in westerns. And he is wearing a red shirt. At least the shirt is not with a chicken pattern. And our millionaire even got himself a bow-tie. He is pleasant to look at: a volleyball who is about to get married. Today in the morning I looked at their itinerary whilst in Russia. Well, what can I say: these guys really came to visit all possible places in our big country. One day show: I mean one show every day in every city for two weeks. Aren't they going to be dizzy after seeing so many brides? And how much Viagra do they have to consume?

At the appointed time the brides are starting to arrive. Wow, what ladies! I think our beauty parlous had a lot of work to do today. Now I will go and listen what they are all talking about...An hour laterWow, I am speechless! They are talking a lot. Mostly they are talking about how much they want to get out of Russia and it doesn't matter where or with whom. Though they were mostly saying that they want "a normal family, kids, and love" but they should understand that you cannot find love HERE! Our "body collectors" are talking with the brides but with such icy smiles and disgusted looks, that I would have run away from such humiliation. Several times I overheard our brides whispering: "I don't care about them, lets have fun and practice our English". Yesterday all the girls were having an English test. Today each of them had a medal on her chest: red medal means that she is fluent, yellow means she can read and write with dictionary, green one means "I don't understand a single word". I would have introduced a blue medal " I am not able to talk and cannot read in any language whatsoever."

Green girls are hanging out close to translators trying not to miss anything important. Now the orchestra is playing touché, the girls are frozen, and finally our males appear on the stage...Two hours laterI am very proud to have this job. You even cannot imagine how much I had to run around to be able to rent this banquet hall. Boss was unusually generous and ordered to serve champagne for free. Although considering the money he collected from all our cowboys, champagne cost really nothing. But it works for their benefits, it helps them to talk more freely, it helps to establish a better international mating. Our guys are flying from one table to another, their notebooks are getting more and more filled up with phone numbers and brief notes. Of course, how could you ever possibly remember who is Natasha and where Raisa prefers to live... Our interpreters are seemingly bored: the questions asked are all standard, the answers are even worse. The brides are overexcited! Now the DJ is going to play a song: "Lady, are you dancing tonight? maybe singing?"

I cannot help but laugh out loud: the Mexican asked a woman who can easily lift him in her arms, for a dance. He is somewhere in between her bosom and is caressing something that reminds you of her back. Now they are going back to the table. This woman is someone who I would give a blue medal. The interpreter is trying not to laugh. But our couple is so into looking at each other, than they do not notice anything around them. Ok, our Mexican is lost. I am starting to roam around the room, I am very curious...

Four hours after the beginning of the social

Our grooms are getting tired, I can tell it from their exhausted look. Some of them seem to be disappointed. I overheard how the Canadian was complaining to an elderly American "But the girls are not that smart, and lots of them just came here to play. What have we paid the money for?" The old gigolo told him smiling, "Hey, take it easy mate. This is not the last orgy." At the table in the corner, the merry Texan cowboy is holding two girls on his lap and trying to hug two others sitting at his side. Ok, this one is having fun. I bet tomorrow he will call all of them to fix a date.

The evening is about to end. Oh, the Mexican and his fatty are moving towards the exit following the interpreter. Let's go and find out what is going on with them... Is the interpreter going to go with them to the hotel? No, she is coming back to the room.... I don't understand anything and ask her: "Where are the customers?" She tells me laughing: "They are gone". I ask: "How are they going to communicate?" " They are ok, she says, "they understand each other and they use the body language". Oh ok... cool.

The girls who have already understood that there is nothing here to catch are slowly leaving. Those who still have some hope are looking mysteriously at the tired and worn out grooms. The curtain is down.

The next day

Our grooms slept till noon. They woke up tired, worn, but excited from the prospect of the upcoming selection work. Some of them  are already on the phone making dates with potential brides. This work is very important, it requires the maximum concentration. The day will be scheduled up to the last minute. I am being torn to pieces, everybody is asking where it is better to meet, what public transport is better to use, where to buy flowers, what restaurant is cheap and decent, etc. etc. I am running around like a mad answering all those questions. And our guys are really into doing things properly: two guys arranged to meet with 16 girls! I am asking them how they are going to manage to date all of them... They say it is easy: 15 minutes for each of the brides, and they are managing all right. Ok, maybe it makes sense. Queue up, all the candidates will be considered. But our Mexican didn't go anywhere. He settled down with his Madonna in her flat.

The latest news: that computer freak has figured out his  victim by some complex mathematical method. Now he is going to brainwash her how wonderful life is behind the American computer.
During our morning planning meeting our boss told us that every American merchant can "export" home one Russian bride. There is a possibility to get them this special 24 days fiancée visa. Afterwards the groom should decide whether to marry his fiancée or to send her back home.
Our boss hinted that our commissions will depend on the number of exported fiancées  Ok, we will do our best.

Evening of the same day

Our Mexican just appeared in the hotel lobby. He looks really good walking together with his Madonna. They look like a woman with a dog to tell you the truth. But they are totally happy. They are going through the hotel lobby. The bride is constantly trying to fix her hair demonstrating a huge diamond sparkling on her engagement ring. One visa is done, thanks god.

The millionaire is saying looking at the couple: "I could not drink that much". I wish he could see himself.. maybe he would have kept quiet then.SundayThe trip is over. Five guys are bringing back brides with them. The rest are bringing souvenirs, and "butterflies in their stomach", thinking about several pairs of women's hands caressing their bodies and with the gained confidence about their male qualities. Well, it will make them feel not so worthless when the next American lady sends them to hell. He will carry this feeling of superiority and the recollection of all those adoring looks of Russian brides.


By Zoya Smirnova
 

[mspanky]

The article is really a sad representation.

[dav1129]

Hi,
I wanted to post something very quickly as it appears I have to be able to PM others with regard to AFA.

I have been contemplating a tour with AFA for sometime.

The main reason; at 46 I have just missed the opportunity to ever get married or have children. And where I live women my age or even only slightly younger are rarely interested in having children and if they were that in and of itself brings with it unnecessary risks and complications. Otherwise and except for the fact I have always had my best (short term) relationships with European women  I wouldn't presume to venture so unnecessarily into the realm of the foreign bride.

I certainly wouldn't think or consider myself a weirdo. But that as suppose is a given? Nonetheless I have remained reluctant and with reservations (about among other things agencies and tours such as AFA)

Then I saw the movie 'A Foreign Affair' (aka 2 Brothers & a Bride) and was about to pay a deposit. Not a great movie but I thought how harmless could it be and if nothing, else would have a fun albeit expensive holiday.

But then determine to a little more research I cam across this thread, downloaded the episode and am near speechless. On one hand I wouldn't ever want to be on the same bus as some of these guys portrayed but then I thought maybe a little competition. I mean most these girls are not stupid but sophisticated. Jelly-beans I mean how insulting to them.

So I have put the breaks on the whole thing for a while.

But if any could assist, I would in particular I'd be interested to find about the AFA associations mentioned here.

One of reservations with the tours BTW remains the I think unjustifiable, cost of the tours especially as I'd have to make my own travel arrangements to join one from a country other than the US. I can't see where the overheads arebe and remain suspect about AFA paying women to just turn up.

[msmoby_ru]

I have been contemplating a tour with AFA for sometime.

The main reason; at 46 I have just missed the opportunity to ever get married or have children. And where I live women my age or even only slightly younger are rarely interested in having children and if they were that in and of itself brings with it unnecessary risks and complications. Otherwise and except for the fact I have always had my best (short term) relationships with European women  I wouldn't presume to venture so unnecessarily into the realm of the foreign bride.

I certainly wouldn't think or consider myself a weirdo. But that as suppose is a given? Nonetheless I have remained reluctant and with reservations (about among other things agencies and tours such as AFA)

Hi Dave?!

WHY do you think a such tour would ever be a good starting point?  IMHO there are many better ways to try to set up meetings with a lady or ladies with which you might feel you have something in common - rather than a "pig in a poke" as we say for a "lottery".

I suggest you make an honest profile, state what you are looking for, SAY if you want kids -  and what you can offer, and post it on say "Elenas Models", "LuckyLovers.net" and if you are interested in meeting a FSU lady one of the mamba.ru group of dating sites ( you'll need to understand Russian )

*IF* you are prepared to pay $4-5K  as you initial "investment" - remember courting and settlement will at least treble that  - and you don't speak Russian - you could pay for a professional translation service - to help make your profile, and may be translate the one's you like.  PERSONALLY speaking -from bitter experience- and I understand basic Russian -  not having a common language can and *will* make for misunderstandings - and *I* think you'd need to insist any potential lady should be able to communicate with you in English... YES, it cuts out a great many great ladies - but .....

Lastly - remember the 10 commandments - and only break 'em if you can afford it !!

Good Luck

[William3rd]

Hi,
I wanted to post something very quickly as it appears I have to be able to PM others with regard to AFA.

I have been contemplating a tour with AFA for sometime.

The main reason; at 46 I have just missed the opportunity to ever get married or have children. And where I live women my age or even only slightly younger are rarely interested in having children and if they were that in and of itself brings with it unnecessary risks and complications. Otherwise and except for the fact I have always had my best (short term) relationships with European women  I wouldn't presume to venture so unnecessarily into the realm of the foreign bride.

I certainly wouldn't think or consider myself a weirdo. But that as suppose is a given? Nonetheless I have remained reluctant and with reservations (about among other things agencies and tours such as AFA)

Then I saw the movie 'A Foreign Affair' (aka 2 Brothers & a Bride) and was about to pay a deposit. Not a great movie but I thought how harmless could it be and if nothing, else would have a fun albeit expensive holiday.

But then determine to a little more research I cam across this thread, downloaded the episode and am near speechless. On one hand I wouldn't ever want to be on the same bus as some of these guys portrayed but then I thought maybe a little competition. I mean most these girls are not stupid but sophisticated. Jelly-beans I mean how insulting to them.

So I have put the breaks on the whole thing for a while.

But if any could assist, I would in particular I'd be interested to find about the AFA associations mentioned here.

One of reservations with the tours BTW remains the I think unjustifiable, cost of the tours especially as I'd have to make my own travel arrangements to join one from a country other than the US. I can't see where the overheads arebe and remain suspect about AFA paying women to just turn up.

What would you like to know? I am the resident expert on AFA, their operations, their links to sordid activities, etc. I also have several former employees that I speak to regularly. . .

[JRC410]

My how things have changed! I remember starting out this process back in 2000. I even did my first trip to Kiev through a tour run by AFA. I went to 2 of the socials, had a good time and the other 18 or so guys were all actually pretty "normal." I had expected to meet a fair amount of "wierdos."

I guess this whole thread illustrates the point that there is always someone ready and willing to feed you misinformation and prey upon your misguided beliefs and aspirations. Marriage agencies have really become more and more difficult to interact with because their interests are many times directly opposed to the interests of an honest man going to find a genuine woman. If you think about it, the agency really makes the most money when a man goes on a tour, has a good time and meets some pretty women, but not any one really special. Then, he can live on and feed off of this false hope and come back for another tour!

It is good, though that now we have forums like this (and other places) to discuss and share our ideas, opinions and experiences. Hopefully the honest men on this board who are starting out (or already involved in this process) will become better educated and then they can go over to the FSU with more realistic expectations. This is the biggest thing in my opinion...that many guys go over there without enough information about what they are getting into (or even misinformation) and have wrongly formed expectations. I mean, they believe all of the agency bs about how even though they are 55 years old they will be able to find and date and marry an incredibly gorgeous teen supermodel!

Anyway, let's all keep up the good work and discussions...maybe eventually this will force the agencies into a more honest approach?!

[Sculpto]

The article is really a sad representation.

Yes it is spanky, and that is exactly why I posted it.  There are some forums I have been apart of in the past where moderators refused to allow any discussion of anything negative.  I found such forums to be nothing more than an extension of agency propoganda.  I have to thank Dan for allowing the free flow of information on this site because I, or someone else, might accidentally offend one of the advertisers.  Nevertheless it is sobering and helps people keep their feet on the ground when they understand how they might be viewed by the people they have payed to help them. 

Zoya's article, if really true, shows the cynicism and emptiness with which this process is viewed by even many of those who profit from it.  She writes her article as an indictment of the men, the women and even though she does not attempt to glorify her own role she shows herself as little more than an opportunist when she states "thank god" that someone is engaged so she can "earn" her commision. 

However, regardless of such impressions, I believe men should follow their dreams and if those dreams pass through the FSU its all good.  Just we need to keep our feet on the ground and be realistic in our expectations and then it seems dreams can come true.  Just don't be a sucker, or live in polyannalandia.

[dav1129]

Thank you msmoby and william3rd both for your replies,

I am still shocked and speechless after seeing the documentary. To think that just a few days earlier and despite my initial gut and common sense reservations I nearly put a deposit or worse still full payment on an AFA St Petersburg tour after seeing the 2 brothers and a bride DVD.

Can I take a rain check to get back to both of you. I am very new to this site [forum] and my head is still spinning partly because I had started to focus most of my hopes to find a partner for marriage and family on the FSU or possibly Ukraine (are those the correct acronyms?) Not as I said in my original post because I want a trophy wife or am an ignorant Neanderthal (I mean offering jellybeans and a ping pong table to these ladies among other things had me cringing through most of the documentary!

But instead because I have only ever known if only for short relationships, European women including a Russian I met in Australia but who was older than me and not interested in starting a family and also because the chances of finding someone my own age in Australia who is either never married or has not yet had children or both are fairly remote. Aside from that I would like preferably to partner with someone who also has never been married before. I guess this could be construed as selfish or wanting a trophy wife (actually I think ten years younger or 36 would be good) but my reasons are really only practical. If the chances were better and I didn't already have a European connection, I'd much prefer to stay local!

I also speak French and German and have lived and travelled in Europe for many years. Unfortunately I just can't speak Russian very well and have not been there before. But I do from experience respect and esteem (most of them) from experience sufficiently to know not to try and impress them with jelly beans and ping pong tables! The other factor for me is because my Australian dad for the most part I think only ever dated foreign women and my mother was French. So I have over time grown a genuine appreciation and fondness of with foreign women rather than just wanting the trophy wife i don't understand or respect.

I may be talking out aloud but am I making any sense? I think I am just finding my bearings again after seeing the documentary.

What would you like to know? I am the resident expert on AFA, their operations, their links to sordid activities, etc. I also have several former employees that I speak to regularly. . .

Hi Dave?!

WHY do you think a such tour would ever be a good starting point?  IMHO there are many better ways to try to set up meetings with a lady or ladies with which you might feel you have something in common - rather than a "pig in a poke" as we say for a "lottery".

I suggest you make an honest profile, state what you are looking for, SAY if you want kids -  and what you can offer, and post it on say "Elenas Models", "LuckyLovers.net" and if you are interested in meeting a FSU lady one of the mamba.ru group of dating sites ( you'll need to understand Russian )

*IF* you are prepared to pay $4-5K  as you initial "investment" - remember courting and settlement will at least treble that  - and you don't speak Russian - you could pay for a professional translation service - to help make your profile, and may be translate the one's you like.  PERSONALLY speaking -from bitter experience- and I understand basic Russian -  not having a common language can and *will* make for misunderstandings - and *I* think you'd need to insist any potential lady should be able to communicate with you in English... YES, it cuts out a great many great ladies - but .....

Lastly - remember the 10 commandments - and only break 'em if you can afford it !!

Good Luck

[groovlstk]

Dav,

Sculpto's last two paragraph's in his most recent post sum things up nicely.

Zoya's article, if really true, shows the cynicism and emptiness with which this process is viewed by even many of those who profit from it.  She writes her article as an indictment of the men, the women and even though she does not attempt to glorify her own role she shows herself as little more than an opportunist when she states "thank god" that someone is engaged so she can "earn" her commision. 

However, regardless of such impressions, I believe men should follow their dreams and if those dreams pass through the FSU its all good.  Just we need to keep our feet on the ground and be realistic in our expectations and then it seems dreams can come true.  Just don't be a sucker, or live in polyannalandia.

Like most things in life, to achieve a lofty goal you'll have to expose yourself to great risk.

You'll find plenty of men on this board who are very happily married to FSU women, so it's not all just a naive dream. Some of us walked through fire and bitter waters to find what we were looking for, and I don't think I'm being too presumptuous by speaking for others and saying we'd do it all over again because the rewards far, far outweigh the difficulties.

That said, this journey isn't for everyone. I'm reminded of a poim we were taught in American high schools decades ago:

The wayfarer,
Perceiving the pathway to truth,
Was struck with astonishment.
It was thickly grown with weeds.
"Ha," he said,
"I see that none has passed here
In a long time."
Later he saw that each weed
Was a singular knife.
"Well," he mumbled at last,
"Doubtless there are other roads."