Can anyone in Moscow verify this?

[LEGAL]

Mark If you cannot respond in a mature and gentlemanly fashion, then don't respond at all Many of us are tired of your continual Smart Ass antagonistic Comments.


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7223.0

[UTRO]

SORRY..

If OlgaH, Mishenka, et al who wish to discuss trance enducing Olga's "soundbites" re Georgia .. I will start a new thread..

Simply said on a light Saturday night in jest Mark 

[groovlstk]

Hi Groov,
true, Putin has his eyes on Georgia for a lot of reasons.  One may be as you mention, two, he is enjoying getting rich on oil and gas revenues. or at least was enjoying it, until prices cut in half. There's nothing worse than going backwards.  How did I determine Putin was planning to depose the Georgian government? proof?  it came right from Medvedev's lips,among others in the Russian military on video and in print on or about the third or fourth day of the invasion.

You're making a mistake in confusing rhetoric with a military operation. No one outside of GWB and his neocon henchmen from the Washington Post believed the Russians would push so far as Tbilisi. And they didn't.

Apparently you did not get the gist of what the European community and Condi Rice had done to force a quick cease fire and withdrawal of Russian troops from inside Georgia.

Apparently, you did not notice how many times during negotiations that the Russians didn't bother to observe deadlines for withdrawal or took their sweet time. They dictated the timetable, not Condi. How long was the war, 5 days? To this day there are still Russian troops in the breakaway regions, in violation of the ceasefire terms.

PS: to get back on topic, my wife reported that according to her family, there are no food shortages in Moscow as described in Mishenka's original post. I should have known better and I blame myself for being foolish enough for asking her to ask her family such an insulting question based on some of the wishful thinking about Russia's demise that I see posted here. I'm sometimes confused when I see such crap: most of us guys travel to Russia or Ukraine and return home with a different perspective. We realize most of the stuff we've seen on TV or read about Russians - people wearing funny hats and animal skins, addressing each other as "comrade," squat women with bulging biceps, dark and humorless people trudging through boring lives, primitive living conditions... all of it is untrue, and then we have to deal with the stupid questions from our friends and neighbors upon return ("were you followed by KGB?"). You'd think this would give us a bit of pause when reading accounts from the same news sources that shaped our earlier opinions about Russia. Now I understand that we all make distinctions between the Russian government and Russian people, and I'm not saying we should give a pass to Putin or anyone else - but wouldn't your experiences in Russia at least make you skeptical whenever you read something in the mainstream press about Russia or hear a politician who has never been there make a sweeping generalization about Russia?

Mishenka, in your response to me you're preaching to me to go to CNN to find facts to support your position, yet earlier in this same thread you accuse the US media of manufacturing the financial crisis. I guess they can only be trusted when it's something that fits your worldview. 

[OlgaH]

Take a step back, look deeper, longer, wider, you will see a different picture.

Exactly the words for some Western homegrown critics of Russian way of policy, who are not able to see anything good and at the first opportunity  just try to throw a jab in every aspect in the Russian policy, unthinking repeating what they see and read about Russia in local media and unfortunately it is usually negative. My reaction is a natural reaction of a Russia person, a person who was born in Russia and live in Russia, yes even I'm now in US I still live in Russia with my Russians, because of my Russian spirit that I haven't lost. It wouldn't be natural if I just close my eyes on your jabs towards Russia policy. May be I should avoid the pro-Western men club and go to the kitchen to cook blinis with "my tongue planted firmly in my cheek" as one man said to another Russian woman on this board. But every time when I see only the negative comments about Russian policy by some members on this board I have a thought - "Do you feel as a White Knight going to Russia and other countries of FSU to rescue a Lady of your heart from the suffering in her land that ruled by the horrible monster KGB?" It is just not normal if your Russian lady or any other lady can not say anything good about the life in every sphere in her homeland and protect it. Think about it.    

  yes, forget about the words spoken in public to mislead the masses, and judge only by Putins actions.

Mishenka, forget about the words spoken in public to mislead the masses about Russian policy, look deeper and wider.  Can you? I can as I can judge  by Putin's actions. I have been living in Russia since Soviet time...  to present time. I will give all my credits to Putin that he has risen Russia from the chaos where Russia was after collapse of USSR, that he has brought Russia to the power on the International arena and voice of Russia can not be ignore or unheard, may be because of it the Western government can do nothing about the growing power of Russia and just able to throw at Putin its harsh and negative phrases. As you mentioned central Asia let me also remind you that there are many immigrants from the central Asia live and work in Russia and they still are coming to Russia for the better life. Oh, famous phrase "Imperialistic Russia" rebuilt its power" LOL What is wrong with it? Democratic US does it during the years dictating to the world what to do and not to do, covering it with the words about spreading democracy and peace all over the world, and Georgia is one of the bright example of such democracy - fake democracy. Just read  Nino Burdzhanadze, who was a Saakashvili's companion-in-arms and now call for making him answerable for the war and his blatant autocratic ruling in Georgia that US calls as democracy and at the same time criticizes autocratic Putin.

In Russia I was working close to our Government, and along with negative events  I have seen the great positive changes. I have been experiencing everithing by myself as an ordinary citizen and as a State Institution's administrative official 

If you can not see and say anything positive about Putin's reforms, national priority projects and his policy, your criticism worth nothing.

But probably it would be better if I leave your pro-Western men club alone and let you enjoy spreading  your horror stories about KGB Communist Putin  and discussing the "empty shelves in Moscow as cause of Russian aggression in Georgia" (btw it was you Mishenka, who have made such connection in this thread first)   

[ScottinCrimea]

Mark If you cannot respond in a mature and gentlemanly fashion, then don't respond at all Many of us are tired of your continual Smart Ass antagonistic Comments.


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7223.0

This is the "mature and gentlemanly fashion" of posting that you advocate?   

[LEGAL]

This is the "mature and gentlemanly fashion" of posting that you advocate?   

ScottinCrimea Where were you with your "mature and gentlemanly fashion" of posting" before!

your statement is even more silly....

now you simply demonstrate your inability

Olga:

WHY do you persist in making an "ass" of yourself

..and is Lily's tongue planted firmly in her cheek? ! *I* hope so...

 Sorry for

[ScottinCrimea]

ScottinCrimea Where were you with your "mature and gentlemanly fashion" of posting" before!

 Sorry for

Legal, I don't condone their fashion of posting, but I didn't see them advocating for gentlemanly behavior while doing quite the opposite in the very same sentence.

[LEGAL]

Legal, I don't condone their fashion of posting, but I didn't see them advocating for gentlemanly behavior while doing quite the opposite in the very same sentence.

ScottinCrimea I am curious who you are talking in the plural form about ?

You don't condone his fashion of posting but you don't speak up. If no one speaks up IMHO the forum is condoning this type of behavior.  I also have my limit of patience and have asked him politely several times.  He has insulted Olga,  posted lies about her and continually goes after her with his indignant arrogant condescending remarks and Olga is not the only member he talks to in this manner. Whether its Olga or anyone else I feel we are all compelled to speak up and I will continue to do so. As I have said my patience has its limits.

[ScottinCrimea]

While I think that Olga is one who can take care of herself quite well, I agree that you have the right to rise to her defense as well.  I think your point would be better made, however, if you didn't lower your standards to do so.

[Sculpto]

Earlier in the day I wrote a missive regarding the situation in Ingushetia and the increase in violence there which some analysis connects to Russias actions in Ossetia and Abkhazia.  The 404 error prevented me from publishing it.  But then, when I got back this evneing I found this report in my email box from another source which I found exceptionally interesting. 

BBC NEWS

By Mark Franchetti
BBC Panorama reporter and Sunday Times Moscow correspondent

Russia's deputy PM has told the BBC the country's Black Sea Fleet will vacate its naval base in Sevastopol in 2017 if the Ukrainian government demands it.

Speaking exclusively to Panorama, Sergei Ivanov said Russia would seek to renew its lease on the Crimean port, but will move the Fleet if it cannot.

The move will anger nationalists who consider Sevastopol a part of Russia.

It is feared the port could become a flashpoint in already strained relations between Russia and the West.

We are not aggressive. We have recognised the territorial integrity of all former Soviet republics
Sergei Ivanov

Asked if he could envisage the Fleet not being based in the Crimea - its home for the last 225 years - Mr Ivanov, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's number two who oversees Russia's military and industry, said:

"Yes I can imagine that easily after 2017. Why not, if the Ukrainian government then in power decides not to prolong the lease?"

It will also surprise the West where in the wake of the war in Georgia many fear Moscow could seek to reclaim parts of the Crimea by force to secure the Fleet's future.

'British and US aggression'

Mr Ivanov however dismissed such claims as Cold War-style propaganda and gave Russia's strongest assurances to date that it has no territorial ambitions.

"We are not aggressive," said Mr Ivanov. "We have recognised the territorial integrity of all former Soviet republics. That was in 1991. Russia, of course, has no territorial ambitions regarding any former Soviet countries."

"We are not going to start a war or attack any country. Right now, in fact, Russia does not fight any war at all. If you analyse how many wars the United States and Britain are fighting - it's quite different," he added.

The future of the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol is a sensitive and emotional issue for most Russians.

The Crimea was handed over to Ukraine during Soviet times when the transfer was a mere legal technicality - and no-one envisaged the collapse of communism and Ukraine's subsequent independence from Moscow.

Local opposition

In Sevastopol, most locals feel closer to Moscow than Kiev, the Ukrainian capital.

They would like to see the peninsula returned to Russia and are bitterly opposed to the possibility of the Black Sea Fleet leaving. Some would be prepared to take up arms to prevent that from happening.

Russia will definitely react, because we can't just not react
Sergei Ivanov on US plans for missile defence shield bases in Europe

Asked what would happen if the Ukrainian government kicked out the Fleet after 2017 despite strong local opposition, Mr Ivanov, who spent 20 years in the KGB and was defence minister for six years, said:

"I love Crimea and even have relatives there but that is Ukraine's problem, not Russia's."

Despite the conciliatory tone, which comes as Russia seeks to rebuild its relations with the West in the wake of the war in Georgia, Mr Ivanov mounted a robust defence of Russian action in the tiny state and strongly criticized Nato's expansion eastwards.

Missile shield

He also dismissed America's claims that its plans for a missile defence shield in Europe are to protect it from Iran and North Korea.

He said Russia sees the shield - parts of which are to be stationed in Poland and the Czech republic - as a threat to Russia.

Mr Ivanov warned that Russia would react militarily if the plans went ahead, but also rubbished a previous threat made by a Russian general who said Poland was exposing itself to a possible nuclear strike if it agreed to station parts of the shield on its territory.

"Russia will definitely react, because we can't just not react," said Mr Ivanov, who as a teenager spent several weeks studying English in London.

"A new potential military will in several years be present, very close to our borders, only 300 kilometres away. But that doesn't mean of course that we are planning a new nuclear attack on the Czech Republic or Poland. That's total rubbish."

"There are still many Cold War warriors. Many Brits and Americans who still think that all Russians are drunk and treacherous, and that we spend our time thinking how to attack the West. That's part of old-style Cold War propaganda. There's too much mistrust. The wall should go. That's my favourite Pink Floyd song."

Misunderstanding

Mr Ivanov's message reflects the general mood in Russia - which Monday's Panorama seeks to test.

Nearly 20 years since the end of the Cold War, Russians feel let down by the West. Gone is the early euphoria. Instead most Russians now feel encircled by the West as a result of Nato's enlargement and are convinced the West wants Russia to be weak.

They also feel misunderstood by the West and argue that we are the true Cold War warriors, not them.

Many abroad vilify Mr Putin - who led Russia as president for eight years and remains its most powerful man despite stepping down and becoming prime minister. By contrast he is genuinely popular among most Russians. In the wake of the war in Georgia, relations between Russia and the West are at their lowest since the collapse of the Berlin Wall. Talk of a new cold war is exaggerated but as our investigation demonstrates, far from narrowing, the gulf in understanding between East and West is deepening.

"Yes Russia is in many ways its own worst enemy," said Vladimir Pozner, a Soviet propagandist during Communist times who is now one of Russia's sharpest commentators.

"But there are far too many things the West does not get about Russia. Most of all it does not want to understand that if you are a country which has never had democracy in its entire history then you cannot expect it in the space of 15 or 20 years to go 'Bingo - we're now democratic'. It's going to take generations. This country is still run by people who grew up in Soviet times."

"Give this country a break. Let the Russians evolve and don't put that much pressure on them because if you do you'll bring out the worst. You'll bring out the super patriots who will say: 'You see, we told you can't trust the West'."

It is a warning echoed less diplomatically by one of Mr Putin's greatest admirers - Nikita Mikhailkov, the most powerful figure in Russia's film industry who is a personal friend of the prime minister.

"You don't like me, Englishman," he told Panorama. "You haven't liked me for centuries, but I respect you. I want to engage with you, but on equal terms. I want you to respect me as I respect you."

"Russia must be respected, not least because it's strong and can answer back. It can say no, you want to talk let's talk. You want to fight, let's fight. But then don't complain."

Panorama: Should we be scared of Russia? is broadcast on BBC One on Monday 20 October at 8pm.

[BillyB]

Here's another article from the AP that talks about Moscow's cities major projects shut down and how Russia's economy needs oil prices about $70 a barrel to fund their budget. One of the co-journalists for this article is from the FSU.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008283889_worldweek19.html

A lot of countries have economic woes. Some leaders of those countries have blamed the USA for their economic woes instead of themselves. Their words and possible State controlled media have gotten their citizens angry at America. I think it was Putin or the other Russian President that said USA get the blame for their economic woes too. They are having serious economic problems as admitted by their leaders. It wasn't too long ago they spent billions to defend the ruble. When the economy was good for those countries, did their leaders give America credit for this or did those leaders give the economic policies they created credit for creating good times for their citizens? I guess it's in most politicians nature to give themselves credit when something good happens and point the finger elsewhere when something bad happens.

[Mishenka]

Again, the purpose of this thread? I asked a simple question after posting a news article about empty shelves in Moscow among other things. Out of all these posts, I counted 2 responses to the original question. Thanks Groov for your input. For some the glass is always half full, for others it's half empty. I was looking for positive answers to this thread. It was nice to get a couple. My friends in Moscow gave me mixed reports. For each one who verified it was true, another said for them it was business as usual. Neither of them was going without at this point.

Olga H,  I always enjoy your posts.  They are educational, informative and filled with passion and your love for mother Russia. I enjoy debating with intelligent people. You bring interesting opinions and ideas to the boards.  We may not always understand each other, or agree on everything, and thats OK, we are each entitled to our own opinion. That's what message boards are all about. Thank you for posting. It is important to me that we hear your viewpoint from inside Russia even though you live here with us in USA. You bring life in your messages, for this I applaud you. Your answers are astute, articulate and your command of the English language is excellent. Still there is always room for misunderstanding.    

For example, I was speaking about the media in USA and how they started the panic when reporting news about failing banks, people began withdrawing funds at alarming amounts of cash and selling stocks. Case in point Washington Mutual, in 5 days depositors withdrew 18 Billion USD, just happens to be identical to what happened in Moscow banks, during the conflict with Georgia, This was only for comparison. (again, media reporting).  Back to Washington Mutual, the massive withdrawals caused WaMu to use up all its FDIC backed up cash reserves. This along with people selling off stock in this bank resulted in bankruptcy. JP Morgan bought it for a fraction of its value, then bankrupt the company.  Other banks quickly followed.  This is why I said   "Take a step back, look deeper, longer, wider, you will see a different picture."  This crisis is much deeper, longer and more vast than anyone realizes.

The way the media reports makes the problem worse.   My point in saying this had nothing to do with Russia, and everything to do with US Media, who control much of what people believe and how they will react to their reports in the news.  Look how they have control and report the slanted election polls. They do this at every election and still liberals fail to win.  I hope I have made this clear. Little in this thread had anything to do with Russia/Georgia. It came into play because of the similarities in bank failures. Russia being 2 months ahead of USA.  There is no conspiracy.  There are actions and reactions. The crisis at hand is a direct result of leadership actions.  In Russia, their problems are a result of Putin policy only. In USA it is a result of Clinton and democrat party policy signing into law the deregulation of the banking industry that got Fannie Mae and Freddy mac among others in so deep. It was their own doing, they reap what they sow. Whatever seed you plant, the fruit you will grow. This bail out was a reward to the criminals that caused the crisis.


Sculpto, I enjoy reading your posts,  keep them coming. I'm a bit jealous you are flying off without me
along for the ride on my way to Tashkent, Maybe there is hope for me yet.  I am missing my serdechka Galina like crazy. She is so patient and understanding. I can't wait to feel her in my arms again.

[BillyB]

This bail out was a reward to the criminals that caused the crisis.

Well... I think they will investigate criminal activity and throw some in jail if they did indeed do wrong. Martha Stewart, a popular personality, wasn't safe and she served time for selling her stocks from inside info from a friend a few years back.

I personally believe the bail out is being done for the best interest of the country and it's citizens. It's also "best" for government to get consumer confidence back up because they make massive dollars on taxes from goods and businesses that are in business. When people don't buy, businesses don't manufacture because less demand and it will create more job loss and the bankruptcies of many more companies further hurting the economy.

[Sculpto]

Mishenka,
Hang in there and be patient.  Good things come to those who wait.

Now.. about your comment about Clinton and the Democrats.. I am afraid the historical facts dispute your version of things...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/nov1999/bank-n01.shtml

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/magazine/28wwln-reconsider.html?ref=economy

[Mishenka]

You're making a mistake in confusing rhetoric with a military operation. No one outside of GWB and his neocon henchmen from the Washington Post believed the Russians would push so far as Tbilisi. And they didn't.

(no , but they were inches away and clearly would have,  if not stopped. Actions speak for themselves. There were many issues going on behind the scenes to change their direction, economic and otherwise pressure from all sides.)

Apparently, you did not notice how many times during negotiations that the Russians didn't bother to observe deadlines for withdrawal or took their sweet time. They dictated the timetable, not Condi. How long was the war, 5 days? To this day there are still Russian troops in the breakaway regions, in violation of the ceasefire terms.

( I did notice, As of  about 2 weeks ago, I heard they left and are no longer in violation. The war was longer than 5 days, closer to 4-6 weeks, from start to finish)

PS: to get back on topic, my wife reported that according to her family, there are no food shortages in Moscow as described in Mishenka's original post. I should have known better and I blame myself for being foolish enough for asking her to ask her family such an insulting question based on some of the wishful thinking about Russia's demise that I see posted here. I'm sometimes confused when I see such crap: most of us guys travel to Russia or Ukraine and return home with a different perspective. We realize most of the stuff we've seen on TV or read about Russians - people wearing funny hats and animal skins, addressing each other as "comrade," squat women with bulging biceps, dark and humorless people trudging through boring lives, primitive living conditions... all of it is untrue, and then we have to deal with the stupid questions from our friends and neighbors upon return ("were you followed by KGB?"). You'd think this would give us a bit of pause when reading accounts from the same news sources that shaped our earlier opinions about Russia. Now I understand that we all make distinctions between the Russian government and Russian people, and I'm not saying we should give a pass to Putin or anyone else - but wouldn't your experiences in Russia at least make you skeptical whenever you read something in the mainstream press about Russia or hear a politician who has never been there make a sweeping generalization about Russia?

Thanks for getting back on topic. (1, My news source was Russian, not US,  as Sculpto pointed out. I am always sceptical of any news reports until I verify it.
2, never feel like a fool for asking important questions. Asking shows you care about them, you look concerned, just as I was, not foolish. )

Mishenka, in your response to me you're preaching to me to go to CNN to find facts to support your position, yet earlier in this same thread you accuse the US media of manufacturing the financial crisis. I guess they can only be trusted when it's something that fits your worldview. 

There are plenty of videos of Medvedev speaking about the conflict, during the Olympics etc, If you want me to post the one to back up my claim, just ask me. It's easy enough to find.

correction,  I did not accuse the US media of manufacturing the financial crisis at all.  I judged them for reporting in such a way to create panic that made people act, just as the media expected and wanted, creating panic that fueled the fire and compounded it.

[Mishenka]

Mishenka,
Hang in there and be patient.  Good things come to those who wait.

Now.. about your comment about Clinton and the Democrats.. I am afraid the historical facts dispute your version of things...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/nov1999/bank-n01.shtml

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/magazine/28wwln-reconsider.html?ref=economy

On this one I have heard far to many words from Clinton himself and videos of him signing the deregulation into law, so I will disagree on this one, all the BS written on web sites won't change the facts as they occured in history. The democrats are guilty as charged on this one pushing and forcing loans on fannie and freddie, to unqualified buyers,  this is not dereg's fault but the democrats in congress, that did the pushing. But again all are responsible to change it. No one did anything until it was too late, so, what can be done? blame all ? Blame banks? I should post some videos of CSPAN I guess that really call out the Dems who are responsible. who done it anyway? Everyone.
CHECK IT OUT - 1999 NY TIMES

September 30, 1999
Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending
By STEVEN A. HOLMES
In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.
The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.
Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.
In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.
''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.''
Demographic information on these bor rowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.
In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.
''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up a nd bailed out the thrift industry.''
Under Fannie Mae's pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point premium is dropped.
Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.

[Mishenka]

Here's another article from the AP that talks about Moscow's cities major projects shut down and how Russia's economy needs oil prices about $70 a barrel to fund their budget. One of the co-journalists for this article is from the FSU.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008283889_worldweek19.html

A lot of countries have economic woes. Some leaders of those countries have blamed the USA for their economic woes instead of themselves. Their words and possible State controlled media have gotten their citizens angry at America. I think it was Putin or the other Russian President that said USA get the blame for their economic woes too. They are having serious economic problems as admitted by their leaders. It wasn't too long ago they spent billions to defend the ruble. When the economy was good for those countries, did their leaders give America credit for this or did those leaders give the economic policies they created credit for creating good times for their citizens? I guess it's in most politicians nature to give themselves credit when something good happens and point the finger elsewhere when something bad happens.

Ok, so this backs up my artical pretty well, Thanks BillyB

[Lee08]

To help answer the OP's original question, I'm in Moscow right now with my lady and we have visited two grocery stores in the past week with no empty shelves and my lady's family business is business as usual. Everything here seems normal to me.

[Sculpto]

Mishenka... Phill Gramm, McCain's best buddy in the Repub party, wrote the bank dereg law.  Clinton planned to veto it if they did not end the exclusions of "bad neighborhoods" from the new dereg law.  Clinton merely democratized the looting and gave everyone a fair chance to steal.  Besides, the push towards all sorts of deregulation came during the Reagan administration and has been a fundamental part of the conservative propoganda agenda since Nixon.  Please call a spade a spade and do not engage in the politics of deception.  Tell me, who was it who said, "If you tell a lie enough times with enough conviction the people will eventually believe it is the truth" (paraphrased)

The links I posted are not some opinion based websites.  Well, unless you consider the New York Times to be somehow estranged from reality.

What i find very interesting in reading the history from that period is there were many critics who at that time denounced what was happening and expected we would end up re-regulating the banks ten years later.  Makes those people seem pretty wise at this point.

One of these days the so called "maverics" will understand we are all on the same space ship called planet earth and we will either sink or swim together.  Rugged individualism is a really "neeto" idea in cinema and during the westward expansion but now is merely the rotten apple in the basket.  It is time to mature as a nation.

Many years ago on my first trip to Europe I happened to be in Seville Spain, a country that had not been ten years free of Fascism at the time I was there.  One night I had been out partying till pretty late and decided to go back to my hotel.  I decided to take a short cut through a park, yeah I know, real smart in the middle of the night LOL.. anyway, in the center of the park there was a bunch of Spanish punk rockers hanging out smoking hash.. as I came up on them, looking VERY much like a hippie, they called me over to join them.  But, the moment the understood I was American I got a lecture (mor elike a shout down) I never forgot.  The main lesson that has stayed with me all these years and contributed to my understanding of geopolitics and human rights was that Spain, as the biggest former colonial empire, had learned a very big lesson about payback and humility.  I suspect our great country may be on the verge of just such a payback and it would serve us well to instead of trying to force the rest of the world to submit to our tyranical grasping for air, that we might do better to acknowledge our mistakes, in wars, in economic policies, in cultural practices and find some way to take the high road we once were able to claim with pride. 

So, to bring this back to your original question.. I have heard it is impossible to get margarita mix in Moscow.  There is none to be found on the shelves of any store. 

[AnastassiaAsh]

Talked to my university friend in Moscow today, all stores and shelves are fine. The same way mass media here exaggerates and puts drama into the crisis. Mass media is to blame.

[Sculpto]

Anastasia,
But why would a site like pravda.ru put such a negative report about happenings in Russia/Moscow on their site?  What propoganda purpose could it serve?

[OlgaH]

But why would a site like pravda.ru put such a negative report about happenings in Russia/Moscow on their site?  What propoganda purpose could it serve?

Sculpto,

pravda.ru has its own forum so they need something to discuss 

the source of the article is AP © (http://ap.org/) as pravda.ru  pointed out
http://english.pravda.ru/russia/economics/106579-0/

[Kuna]

To help answer the OP's original question, I'm in Moscow right now with my lady and we have visited two grocery stores in the past week with no empty shelves and my lady's family business is business as usual. Everything here seems normal to me.

Thank goodness someone had something of value to add to this thread. 

Now Mishenka can stop "worrying" (or was that celebrating???) the downfall of Russia while denying the problems at home.

Up until this post I was regretting even reading this thread... but now I can be comfortable the relatives won't be starving (or immigrating to the US to buy up some of that cheap Real Estate I've been hearing about.)   

Errrrr... can we go back to discussing women now and not US politics?

[Sculpto]

Olga dear, I know.. sorry you couldn't see the "tongue in my cheek".  As such my question was not innocent.. just giving the opportunity for you or Anastasia to finish my sentence. 

I really don't know why Russia and the USA can not get along better. But....

I might have mentioned this in another post.. but, I know a guy from Texas.. he is a REAL Texan.. big.. loud.. obnoxious.. very opinionated and of course never wrong.  (notice I did not say he is my friend, I just know him)  This fellow was at an event I attended yesterday and I told him I would be bringing him a cap with a red star on it from Moscow.  He didn't realize immediately that I had set him up.. but.. if you saw this guys reaction I am telling you guys would be shocked.  You would think Stalin had just landed the invasion on the guys front yard.  The only thing I could find to talk to him about Russia was the current state of the old collective farms.  He was very interested in that topic.. being the cattle man he is...

OK, to make this post at least a little relative to the topic.. this Texan.. he can not possibly believe that the shelves in Moscow are anything but empty.  Even when presented with proof otherwise he insists the truth is life is miserable over there, everyone is starving, everyone not starving is in the mafia, and the return to communism is imminent.

Frankly the two countries are behaving towards each other like a couple of capricious children.. "I'm better" "No, Im better" and so on..

[AnastassiaAsh]

no, we can't because US politics, thus economy, has a direct connection to RW who want to come here....  ......I am just joking.....