Wife split!

[Russiangirl]

a woman does not become a saint just because she had a child.

Agreed. Similarly, a woman does not become a GCG just because she leaves her husband.

[Misha]

Agreed. Similarly, a woman does not become a GCG just because she leaves her husband.

I agree with you as well on this point.

[OlgaH]

You mean the above "explanation"? It sounds like "я не такая, я жду трамвая", ЛОЛ.

Russiangirl,

You missed my point, I don't wonder why.

I gave my explanation here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8501.msg159551#msg159551

and here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8501.msg159492#msg159492

If a Russian woman will come to this board to share her problems I will hold the same position towards her and her story as I do it right now towards Wayne. 

You can practice your imagination about what really happened in Wayne's family (and also about me  ) so much as you want and how you want and how you able to do it. BTW Doll already has started, so feel free to pick up the baton   

I told you- she left because of her daughter.

Doll's statement above is a typical example of a woman who has thoughts": "how she can use such option as having a child"  Though I don't know what she wants to say with her statement, and I' have no desire to know, but if you wish, don't shy to contribute with your imagination   

[felix8787]

In the end felix, she is right, and this is a make it or break it part of the decision to marry.

Even I would not have married if there was not enough financial substance to base starting a family together.  I had to weigh the eventual costs heavily before taking that very serious step of proposing.

This is probably the single biggest difference between dating internationally and dating at home.

The woman at home will figure out your status fairly quickly and has the ability to relate the conditions to her 'baseline interests'.  Most couples in the US I know were self supporting before they married..  certainly not the case here.

The foreign woman knows little or nothing when she gets off the plane and is quite 'stuck' with whatever happens.

First date to CheckMate with little inbetween.

OTOH there are plenty of guys that overreach their financial situation chasing RW.. the old 'doctor dentist lawyer' syndrome, sitting in front of that fascinating screen thinking about retirement after she gets here..

Messy messy..

And I agree with you BC on that, but don't let that be the #1 motivator in getting married and hope that she will love you down the line.

[felix8787]

There are all types of RW.  While Doll is no angel, she is not as bad as some of you are painting her.   Much of the objection that men voice about Doll may rest in the style in which she expresses her opinion.  A spin artist could take Doll's words and make her seem not as harsh, although the mentality remains the same.

My guess is that Doll's primary motivation is not money.  Rather it is security and stability.  I have seen this in many RW in their 30s, especially those who have had to provide for their children with minimal support from anyone.   IMO, you will not see it in young RW, who do not have children and who grew up in a happy, functional family.  I do not think an AM can readily grasp the stress that some of these women have endured nor comprehend how it has affected them.   

Hey Gator,
I am not out to paint her as bad, I just question her logic behind some or most of her post that to me seem way off base.
What ever happened to marrying because you love the person and you actually wanted to be with them minus the financial standpoint, just an emotional standpoint. And not just to marry because it is security, stablility and don't want to deal with how hard life is without a man.


felix8787

PS happy thanksgiving everyone!!!!!!  time to go and eat!!!!

 

[BC]

What ever happened to marrying because you love the person and you actually wanted to be with them minus the financial standpoint, just an emotional standpoint. And not just to marry because it is security, stablility and don't want to deal with how hard life is without a man.

Happens the majority of the time within peer groups.

Inter cultural relationships are a totally different ballgame.  Even the best (as in loving) relationships have huge hurdles to overcome. Peers we are not.

And I agree with you BC on that, but don't let that be the #1 motivator in getting married and hope that she will love you down the line.

Believe it or not, considering all the gaps added together (age, financial, social, cultural) we are indeed flying by the seat of our pants so don't expect anything close to a smooth ride.

Our marriages are made not in heaven, but somewhere nearer to hell.. slowly having to work our way up. Your 'down the line' is not far off the mark.

jb said long ago that the patience of a saint is required.  Believe it.

Enjoy the Turkey and skip the trots!

[SANDRO43]

A incredible example of Forum dynamics . This thread is 61 pages long, started with someone recounting his sad matrimonial story and turned into a monster that apparently nobody can let go of.

"Is there a doctor socio-psychologist in the house" ?

[Doll]

There are all types of RW.  While Doll is no angel, she is not as bad as some of you are painting her.   Much of the objection that men voice about Doll may rest in the style in which she expresses her opinion.  A spin artist could take Doll's words and make her seem not as harsh, although the mentality remains the same.

My guess is that Doll's primary motivation is not money.  Rather it is security and stability.  I have seen this in many RW in their 30s, especially those who have had to provide for their children with minimal support from anyone.   IMO, you will not see it in young RW, who do not have children and who grew up in a happy, functional family.  I do not think an AM can readily grasp the stress that some of these women have endured nor comprehend how it has affected them.   

They have a survivor instinct, and Doll manifests what I have seen in others.  They are skeptical and do not readily trust.   They think the way Doll has expressed in this thread because they are concerned with protecting themselves.

How important is money to them?  Such a woman does not necessarily push her man to buy, buy, buy expensive stuff for her.  In fact, some of these RW can be very frugal, a deep habit developed in bad times.   Only part of the security/stability equation deals with money.  Much depends upon the man's confidence and how he instills in her the belief that everything will be all right.

A man's generosity is also important.  A generous, average man is more desirable than a greedy, rich man.  If she is a good mother, the man's attitude towards her children is more important than the money he makes.  Doll has revealed some of these attributes about her husband.  

The RW who values money more than anything is probably very beautiful and has been spoiled by RM who gave her a lot of pretty presents when she was their temporary girlfriend.  They will demand from an American date, "Buy me a gift."  "Why?"  "Because I am beautiful."  I don't think this is Doll's sentiment.

So when a man looks around Russia ans Ukraine, and finds a real sweetheart who has experienced a stressful life, he has found a winner.  Be good to her and take care of her without letting her walk over you.  Before marrying her, just make sure she is truly happy when spending time with you, is committed to the relationship, has goals aligned with yours, and expresses sincere devotion to you as well as to her children.

Super!
Gator,
 
Can't say better, just super!

[Misha]

What ever happened to marrying because you love the person and you actually wanted to be with them minus the financial standpoint, just an emotional standpoint. And not just to marry because it is security, stability and don't want to deal with how hard life is without a man.

IMHO most of the women in Russia who married for love did it when they were 18 years old to a local guy and are no looking overseas  My wife is an exception.

[Doll]

IMHO most of the women in Russia who married for love did it when they were 18 years old to a local guy

It is not true. I mean the age.

[Misha]

It is not true. I mean the age.

I was being facetious, but fill in the age of their first marriage, and that will give you the first (and likely last) many women seeking foreign husbands married for love

[Doll]

I was being facetious, but fill in the age of their first marriage, and that will give you the first (and likely last) many women seeking foreign husbands married for love Wink

Didn't understand.

[Misha]

Didn't understand.

Well, quite simple. Based on what you have written, I surmise that some (many?) Russian women will marry a local guy when young for love, and then will marry a foreigner for economic reasons later in life.

[Doll]

You said- in YOUR humble opinion. What is YOUR opinion? Leave Doll alone for this 

[Doll]

BTW I've just checked the results of the pole regarding the reasons for the divorces- the main is finances, 22%. Why so?

[Gator]

Hey Gator,
I am not out to paint her as bad, I just question her logic behind some or most of her post that to me seem way off base.
What ever happened to marrying because you love the person and you actually wanted to be with them minus the financial standpoint, just an emotional standpoint. And not just to marry because it is security, stablility and don't want to deal with how hard life is without a man.

Yes, Felix, love is part of it.  If there is not some sort of mutual attraction, the relationship will not be fulfilling to either party, and could even be doomed.

You are a much younger man than me.  Hopefully you will find a young RW whose heart has not been tainted by past experiences and who will love you because of her emotional feelings.  

Here are some differences between the particular AW and RW that I dated after my divorce 8 years ago (YMMV).  Each has implications for your question Felix.

1.  Unlike AW, the RW I met were motivated to marry.  At my age, most of the RW I dated were divorced, in their 30s and 40s, and most had children.  The 40-somethings were more like an AW because they had raised their children and were now looking for a new life, to do the things they missed while struggling as a single mom.  The 30-somethings with young children wanted a man, and they needed a man almost akin to needing air, a few to the point of desperation (which always turned me off).


2.  Any sort of competent AW does not need a man to feel complete.  Yet, the RW I met impressed me as needing a man to feel complete even when they had a relatively good life.  They depend upon the man for key roles (e. g., provider being one role) and not any man can fill those roles.  A RW has higher expectations for her man than an AW, even higher than a AM’s expectations for his RW wife.   Even at my advanced age, RW taught me a few things about being a man.


3.  I think a RW falls in love somewhat differently than AW.  The RW I dated were old enough to be immune to crazy love, that blinding haze of infatuation which may have prompted some of them to marry that “beautiful” RM only to be betrayed or abandoned by him.  RW are more pragmatic than AW, and those who have been betrayed and abandoned avoid making the same mistake.  In contrast, I have known many divorced AW who seem to be making the same mistake with their new men.  
 

4.  Perhaps many will disagree with me about how RW fall in love.  I think fewer will disagree with my opinion that a RW stays in love differently than AW.  Not one divorced RW ever told me that she and her husband  simply grew apart (the canned answer from AW).   You can infer the rest.

What was similar to AW?  Much because women are women.  For example, an unmarried RW in her 40s seems very much like an unmarried AW in her 40s.  

[Doll]

Wow! Gator, today is your day!
 

[Doll]

Now it is 23% for financial reasons for the divorce.

[ScottinCrimea]

Gator, overall a good post, but my experience hasn't been the same with regards to your #2.  In the vast majority of the women I met in Ukraine in their thirties and forties (including my wife, who was actually 29 when we first met), I didn't see any sense of needing a man as you describe.  They seemed comfortable in their single lives.  If a good man came along, they were certainly open to marriage, but there was no sense of desperation.  It could be that the women I met weren't marketing themselves in any way such as with personal ads or agencies, so we were seeing different groups.

[Gator]

It could be that the women I met weren't marketing themselves in any way such as with personal ads or agencies, so we were seeing different groups.

Could be true because 90% of the RW I met were listed with an agency or with Brides.ru or Freepersonals.  In so doing, they were actively hunting for Mr. Right and not waiting for him to show up at the coffee bar in a museum.

[OlgaH]

They seemed comfortable in their single lives.  If a good man came along, they were certainly open to marriage, but there was no sense of desperation. 

Exactly with the same attitude I placed my profile on free dating website, you never know where a good man will come from and more over because of my too busy job I did not have so much time for hunting, just for bottle of wine with my friends in a good restaurant or night club or sometimes in my office, the coffer bars in the museums in our city are usually closed after 5PM 

[Ooooops]

IMHO most of the women in Russia who married for love did it when they were 18 years old to a local guy and are no looking overseas  My wife is an exception.

 

[vwrw]

People after break-up are prone to OMIT their own wrong doings.

I agree.

Wayne, so far you have told us only about her contributions in ruining of your family.
What about your input? Were there any wrong doings on your part or your behavior was stainless?

[felix8787]

Happens the majority of the time within peer groups.

Inter cultural relationships are a totally different ballgame.  Even the best (as in loving) relationships have huge hurdles to overcome. Peers we are not.

Believe it or not, considering all the gaps added together (age, financial, social, cultural) we are indeed flying by the seat of our pants so don't expect anything close to a smooth ride.

Our marriages are made not in heaven, but somewhere nearer to hell.. slowly having to work our way up. Your 'down the line' is not far off the mark.

jb said long ago that the patience of a saint is required.  Believe it.

Enjoy the Turkey and skip the trots!

Yes, it is a seat of the pants venture when doing this........but in the end, once you have found the right one (fingers crossed), then a whole new ride opens up for you to experience and if you are willing to experience this new ride through the twist in turns and the ups and downs, there would be not doubt that it was worth it in the end.

BTW turkey was good and watched "Tropic Thunder"  

felix8787

[Russiangirl]

Wayne's wife moving the next day to another room is not uncommon. They do this humiliate their husbands. GCG love to psychologically torture their victims. The GCG generally hates their victim and have a need to punish them for being fooled by them. In their mind it is like

   "How dare you think I could love and find you attractive? You are an idiot. I am going to punish you for all those times I had to pretend having sex with you was enjoyable. How could you be so stupid? I am superior to you in all ways. I will punish you for taking advantage of me with your  offer of a better life..."

William is right, these women are criminals. 

Maxx,

You sound like someone in exteme emotional pain.

I'm sorry you got hurt so badly and that you're still bitter after so many years. But you're getting hurt even more by not letting go. Pain is not rational.

Whatever happened to you was in the past. What's the point of focusing on your past sad experience? Hatred is destructive.You're hurting yourself, and I'm afraid not helping anybody either.

By sharing your hatred and distrust (however well deserved it was in your wife's case), you're not "saving" other men. More likely you're preventing some of those who listen to you from finding happiness.

There can be no happiness in the atmosphere of distrust and suspicion. Suspecting your wife/gf of being  a "GCG" is the fastest road to divorce/break-up.

For those paranoid about getting conned - don't date RW, period. (Don't date AW either, do us a favor, LOL.) Otherwise, use your head - find a decent person you can communicate and share common goals with - and live happy.