Wife split!

[Jack]

Do not contact immigration

Do not contact immigration!

[Ronnie]

This is a disappointing story.  Certainly I don't want to compound Wayne's problem by pointing out his mistakes and maybe I'm off base in my conclusions...  If I am, I won't mind someone correcting me, so here goes.

Apparently, IIRC, Svetlana came and immediately turned around and went home.  If the reasons for this were discussed I missed it but my guess is that Wayne's home is to far from civilization for her to feel connected to the world.

Being connected to the world, seeing human activity is something that my wife tells me is essential for her psychological health.  It has a lot to do with the huge contrast between city-dwellers in the FSU and the country people.  I have seen country girls in Ukraine, beautiful teenage girls, going around with shoes in the summer.  Every city woman shudders at the thought of that being her plight or that of her child(ren).

So to arrive in Northern Michigan miles from civilization, regardless of how beautiful the woods may be to us, is like walking into the jaws of hell for these RW/UW.  Nothing impresses my wife like a glass and steel skycraper.  Go figure...it's an FSU think i guess.

The only advice I can offer WM is to be very careful that your future bride does not come from a city of any size if you live in the country.

As far as Wayne is concerned, he says he doesn't have money for an attorney and his experience with them has been less than satisfactory in handling his previous divorce.  Keep in mind, that if she is not working you will end up paying her attorney bill unless you can really convince a judge she was acting in bad faith from the beginning.  That may be difficult and indeed her case may be stronger if your living conditions are substandard or not as represented.  That doesn't explain why she didn't just turn around and leave as Svetlana did, but she could always argue she had crossed a point of no return giving up work, etc.

let's all be glad we are not in Wayne's shoes and for goodness sakes, if you live in the woods or in a dump, don't be inviting an RW to be your bride.  Despite what you may believe, she will not be eternally grateful to you for rescuing her from even worse conditions back in the FSU.

Let me say here, that of all the RW friends we have who are married to AM, none is wholly satisfied with their economic situation...they always want and feel the deserve more.  It's comes with the territory guys.  In this regard, I find AW much easier to satisfy economically.  So much for the old myth.

 

[groovlstk]

Let me say here, that of all the RW friends we have who are married to AM, none is wholly satisfied with their economic situation...they always want and feel the deserve more.  It's comes with the territory guys.

And this is certainly not a universal truth, my wife is extraordinarily grateful for everything I do for her and everything we have in this life and says so quite often.

I think there's a huge divide between two schools of thought in this endeavor: one side basically believes you need to guarantee a nice house in a good neighborhood, a new car, and a steady supply of cash for shopping upon a fiancee's arrival in order to ensure her continued loyalty. Once this is established and she's comfortable, vows are exchanged and the guy can breath a little easier although he knows the gravy train has to keep moving along in order to keep her content and thus maintain marital bliss. I may be going out even further on a limb here, but I'd guess most women in this situation agree to a K1 for the hope or promise of love rather than anything she feels the moment the engagement ring slides on her finger.

I realize I'm starting to sound like a broken record here and guys like Ambach are probably rolling their eyes at yet more preaching from me, but I can't help but think of JB's old analogy about picking out a pretty puppy. I made a ton of mistakes during my search - all embarrasingly recounted in the numerous TRs in have the TR section. But the one thing that I did right was that I took my time until I met someone who cared as deeply for me as I did for her, and have no doubt she would have happily come to me regardless of where I lived.

[Jack]

How is one way to be successful?

I made a ton of mistakes during my search - all embarrasingly recounted in the numerous TRs in have the TR section. But the one thing that I did right was that I took my time until I met someone who cared as deeply for me as I did for her, and have no doubt she would have happily come to me regardless of where I lived.

He took his time until he met someone he KNEW felt the same about him, as he did her.

[Misha]

But the one thing that I did right was that I took my time until I met someone who cared as deeply for me as I did for her, and have no doubt she would have happily come to me regardless of where I lived.

It is not complicated, yet men seem to want to delude themselves that they will be the exception. Groov, this is advice well worth repeating.

[dobradavid]

Wife knows about this forum, so I need to be careful not to say something to be used against me.  A member who has not posted for a long time lives near us.  He married a UW how is very friendly and kind.  She is attractive, but not beautiful.  A little over weight.  Wife and UW were becoming close friends--but other member forbid UW to have anything to do with us.  I think he thought we are a bad influence upon his marriage.

Wife rerceived the work authorization card in mid July, but has not found work.  Wife was a Russian Hairdresser.  She needs a license to work in the field here.  Part of our problems is because of things that happened to us that were beyond our control.  First, all the problems getting the visas and bad luck.  Then, when they came, Delta lost part of their luggage.  I helped wife fill out the forms listing all the items lost and it totaled up to more than $6000.  Since it was an international flight, the payment received was only about $1600.  There is this lower limit on international flights ccmpared to a $5000 limit on domestic flights in USA.  So a wise idea for anyone traveling and bringing all their belongings to pay extra for flight insurance.  Anyway, Wife had a very large file from the embassy to hand carry.  Also, there was the dog.  So she packed important papers in the checked baggage.  Warning! Never pack anything in your checked baggage that is important and difficult to replace.  Wife lost many expensive items including the wedding dress.  I had to replace many things.

I tried to help wife find work.  I printed out many job opening descriptions.  I found an opening for a full time "Front Desk Person" at a very fancy, upscale European spa in the downtown area.  This position would not require a license as she would not be working on customers.  The name of this spa is based on the world famous Russian Ballerina, Anna Pavlova.  What better person could you have greet you as you enter this spa than a beautiful Russian woman, with the cute accent?  Wife never even went to check on this position.

I have limited computer access now.  Wife put a lock on the room where the computer is located.  So I can only write from my work at lunch or after work time.  

There is a wide range of opinions here.  I do not want people to think that wife is such a terrible person. I think she is getting advise from a lawyer and other Russian women.  Yes, I live in the beautiful country.  There is natural all around.  It is much different from the busy city where wife lived.  I know there were many adjustments to be made.  That is why I kept staying in there, hoping for things to get better.  Come on, many guys speak about the difficulties adjusting to a new life.  

Things are not going to get better 

It's clear your "wife" has a low opinion of you - and it "may" be deserved. She has no legal right to lock you our of any room in the house - and you let her? You need to start being "strong" - and I don't think you can be.

If you have not filed for divorce - you should be - and if possible, a protection order getting her our of the house. Also think about shutting off the utilities - legally, it's your right. If she leaves the house again, file an ex-parte protection order, change the locks, file for divorce, etc.

[dobradavid]

Sorry for this comment, but this case seems to be a joke or a case for psychologist. I can not understand how it is possible to be so weak.

Da 

[William3rd]

We are back to- Go Get a #$&^$&( LAWYER!!!! NOW!!

[SANDRO43]

a #$&^$&( LAWYER!!!!

An introspective moment  ?

[Maxx2]

What is this business about not contacting immigration? Since when is it a Green Card Girl's sacred right to move unobstructed through her felony fraud scam? If you have evidence that she committed fraud by all means contact the USCIS. Yes, I know they will do nothing but at least a guy knows he did his duty to expose her fraud. In most cases a team of wild horses couldn't drag him away from doing this. 


Maxx

[William3rd]

Well thought out post,  Maxx. Let me know what efforts you are making. PM me. I have some case studies. . .

[GoodOlBoy]

Maxx, is this a petition? Is there anyway that the RWD members could participate in this (if they want to)?

[BillyB]

What is this business about not contacting immigration? Since when is it a Green Card Girl's sacred right to move unobstructed through her felony fraud scam? If you have evidence that she committed fraud by all means contact the USCIS. Yes, I know they will do nothing but at least a guy knows he did his duty to expose her fraud.

Maxx, I was once married to a Ukrainian woman who I met in the States. Although she was already living here, she had yet to receive her green card after marrying me. I called them up and they told me although I'm her husband, they could not release any info to me or talk to me. Guess why and guess who lobbied for rules and laws like that?

If a guy like Wayne calls up Immigration, it could be interpreted as an attempt to further harrass his wife and show a vindictive side of him due to a marriage not working out. Sounds good if a guy reports fraud but regardless, a free pass to a green card is DV securing her stay here forever. That is the hand she may play if Wayne is successful in getting immigration to hold her green card.

Is it worth Wayne declaring all out war to send her back home at the risk of a DV record? He should stay away from her and let an attorney take care of the situation. My guess is in a court of law, Wayne says she's insincere and soon left him after the wedding and wife says she married Wayne in good faith but he abused her, couldn't stay in the abusive marriage, and he threated to take away her green card unless she came back to his bed as evident of him calling Immigration. Judge says Wayne loses.

I hope everybody reading this thread is better educated and understands how important it is to find a sincere woman vs. a insincere woman, how important it is to get it right the first time unless you like living in hell.

[dobradavid]

What is this business about not contacting immigration? Since when is it a Green Card Girl's sacred right to move unobstructed through her felony fraud scam? If you have evidence that she committed fraud by all means contact the USCIS. Yes, I know they will do nothing but at least a guy knows he did his duty to expose her fraud. In most cases a team of wild horses couldn't drag him away from doing this. 

Maxx

One thing I have not seen is to file a report to the police BEFORE any claim of domestic violence is made. Is there a report classification for that type of action?

[William3rd]

a "suspicious activity" report? requires something more than nothing but something less than the actual occurrance of a crime.

Tough when a male calls the police- many officers do not take the call seriously.

[Diplomacy]

One thing I have not seen is to file a report to the police BEFORE any claim of domestic violence is made. Is there a report classification for that type of action?

Domestic Violence is the most dangerous situation most Police Officers Place themselves in.  She had to say she felt unsafe and thought she could be harmed.  Therefore she answered that she did indeed feel this way.  Setting up to play victim or actual reasons to believe this are hard questions in this situation.

It is hard to watch it happen, and yes what Groove, Jack and others say is sound advice.  I see a lot of focus on the women and how they act and need.  Maybe some threads on what type of man you need to be to be successful in marriage with FSUW.

A strong man is a relative term.  Fair?  I would think the RM Mach attitude is viewed by them as strong?  To walk across the street without looking is stupid, but yet that makes you macho.  Pride gets you killed, no thank you.

It is clear that Wayne is outmatched and outplayed.  He had taken a lot of time in the decision, but yet made an error in judgment.

So what are the traits of sincere versus insincere woman?

I find my woman to be very sincere, she asks questions that only someone who truly cares would ask.  Takes a genuine interest in all facets of my life, and takes time to include me in all of hers.  She worries about things that only as woman IMO who is sincere about.  

Now I did not meet any other women on the trip.  I did not care to, I do not look back and say what if much in life.  Usually if I made a mistake, I will look back to try and do things different.

I have gotten an actual apology on several occasions and reason why she has saying sorry.  A fact, I had never expected to hear that.  

See this is the hard part for me, the advice of seeing more women is sound.  Do not rush is sound also.  If I did not feel comfortable, I would wait.  I read and read posts, no red flags.  

I am confident in who I am and what I offer.  I have gone to great effort to set expectations of my life and what is and is not realistic.  Who I am and why I do what I do, so she feels secure with me.   She answers in ways that are not easy to admit about yourself.  To admit to flaws or quirks.  

Why would someone go to effort of taking the time to explain all that, when their is a less savvy and easier target out there?  Does the forum in fact allow one to take a lot of risk out of the occasion?

How does one know if a FSU woman is insincere?  If you keep saying the things such a woman would say, and your actions meet the words. Over time would you not become that person anyways?

Not sure any of this makes sense, but I tried.

[groovlstk]

How does one know if a FSU woman is insincere?  If you keep saying the things such a woman would say, and your actions meet the words. Over time would you not become that person anyways?

I think this is a fairly simple and easily answered question, there's no secret formula - it becomes problematic when you throw into the mix a) guys with very limited dating experience who can't tell the difference between sincerity and opportunism, and b) guys who fall for a beautiful deyvushka BEFORE knowing whether she's sincere or not, and she can then treat him like garbage and he'll happily point to the attention she gives him as evidence of her interest.

[Jack]

I think this is a fairly simple and easily answered question, there's no secret formula - it becomes problematic when you throw into the mix a) guys with very limited dating experience who can't tell the difference between sincerity and opportunism, and b) guys who fall for a beautiful deyvushka BEFORE knowing whether she's sincere or not, and she can then treat him like garbage and he'll happily point to the attention she gives him as evidence of her interest.

da, da, da.

[Diplomacy]

Thanks Groove:

No problem for me there.  I have had a lot of experience dating women, just not FSU women.  I feel educated about the difference, and confident in who I am and who she is.  It might sound silly, but I actually talk to the wives of men who have great by my definition marriages.

Mooshini, Moosh, malcheck?  Guess that is the real question?  Which way does she see you in her eyes?  Sorry if I butchered transliteration.  Trying to wean off that crutch and this keyboard does not have cyrillic stickers.

I know that the FSU women are smart, but to go to that much effort is not smart.  The whole situation is rough.  I admit fully to only meeting one in person on romantic level.  The issue is I am always friends with a woman, before I will take it to the romantic level.  I would have been on the next train from Lugansk to Odessa if she was not the woman I hoped she was.  I was not head over heals, I knew nothing was real until I was there to get a feel for things.

I chatted and emailed a lot of FSU woman and threw money down the toilette I should have not.  I did not know better and found the board well after that, and never did it again once I read. But those women were not this one, some were close.  I was going to meet them if nothing here with my fiance. I love this girl to death, she is what I been looking for.  I think she is genuine in her love for me, and do not feel it is hoping to feel in love.  Is it greater than the love for her son?  No, and well reality is it may never be even as much as for him?  Two different types of love, and she has had him in his life for 7 years.  I have been in her life for 6 months.  I am a realist and feel happy with this scenario.  I talked to her about what I feel is too much mothering for a boy.  

Did she like it?  No, would you?  She did come back and say she was sorry she got mad at me, and agreed with what I said.  She had just done it that way and so had her mother.  Would you like being told that doing some things enables bad behavior in men?  When you did it out of love?  

I do not care how much love there is in a marriage, you got to be growing it or it is dying like a plant.  The stronger the roots the more hardship it can handle.  You try to keep it from hardship, but some things are beyond your control.

This whole thing is hurdle after hurdle.  Up and down like a roller coaster.  If you do it the right way, you can build a great marriage.  If you are not honest with her, and set expectations that are realistic on every front you can think of.  The blame is on you and not her.  You get caught up on the pretty face, then you better watch out.

I mean does nature teach you anything?  Most snakes and spiders give you a warning with pretty colors.  You do not take that warning, then you deserve to get bit.  Of course they blame the spider or the snake.  

Some beautiful things are safe to admire close, others from distance.  Keep your distance until you know it is safe to be close.

  

[Diplomacy]

Jack:

You know why I asked that lol.  I have not once had her treat me in a bad manner.  I know exactly what you are all talking about.  All actions need to meet the words.  Not pleasing me in one way and then treating me like crap in another.

[dobradavid]

How does one know if a FSU woman is insincere?  If you keep saying the things such a woman would say, and your actions meet the words. Over time would you not become that person anyways?

How can you know if a women is sincere? Pre-nup. 

When love hurts
http://www.kyivpost.com/nation/30897

[groovlstk]

Thanks Groove:

No problem for me there.  I have had a lot of experience dating women, just not FSU women.  I feel educated about the difference, and confident in who I am and who she is.  It might sound silly, but I actually talk to the wives of men who have great by my definition marriages.

Diplomacy, I hope you didn't think I was addressing your situation - I was referring to guys like Wayne and many others who grab the tiger's tail - and then realize only when it's too late that letting go of the tail is going to hurt almost as much as it does to continue holding on.

Your question about gauging sincerity was thought-provoking though, and whenever some new guy asks this Q there are always eager checklist-type responses like "tell her you're planning to relocate to Russia/Ukraine and watch her reaction" or "take her to a restaurant and watch to see if she orders the most expensive entree on the menu," etc. I think guys take such examples to heart and make their women jump through a few hoops all the while ignoring the bigger picture - never mind if she tries to save you money by taking you to inexpensive cafes, does she have even an inkling of affection for you? OK great, so you've determined that she's not a scammer and not after your money, but put that engagement ring back in your pocket - at this point you've only established the groundwork for getting to know each other better 

[Wayne]

Came home from work.  Found two keys on table.  One to back door.  Other to the room wife occupied.  Looked in room.  Things were cleaned out. Putting out trash.  Found some papers that might be useful.  Guess the process server caught wife at the house.  Waiting to hear from attorney.

Found some interesting information on the immigaration fraud website:


"Warning signs:

Good but brief relationship before the marriage and a drastic change to the worse after the marriage

After marriage refuses sex except for times when wants something from you (a present, a credit card, separate bank account, etc);

Demands separate living arrangements (different bedrooms or even apartments); separate credit cards and bank accounts;

Very unsatisfied about your social or financial status; demands expensive purchases that she knows you cannot afford; gets angry or violent when refused her demands

Does not socialize with your family or children; treat them with disrespect
Does not invite you to socialize with her friends

Behave in a secretive way; has friends that you find shady or unpleasant


I also add that there seems that many of them push their husbands to marry them quickly and to file the immigration papers quickly.

Also there seems to be little concern about having a showy wedding. I think of Gary's case where he got married in a plain blue shirt with it open for the first two buttons. Why didn't she care about his being not dressed up for such an occasion? How she wanted a justice of the peace wedding instead of a church wedding. Then got into their first argument two days later about him wanting to go to bed before he completing filing out her immigration documents. It was a race to get her immigration process going as soon as she could arrange it. They even stopped by the Social Security office to file for her SS card on the way back from doing the Adjustment of Status at the USCIS.

Another sign is a secretive computer life. Always hiding her internet history and quickly closing down windows when the husband enters the room.

If her friends do not like her husband even though he is kind to them. She maybe telling them stories of abuse, control and neglect so that they will help her when she is ready to leave.

An empty refrigerator and empty food cabinets when he comes home from work when they were stocked when he left that morning. Were her friends over to witness this "evidence" of his starving her? Believe me these tricks happen!"

Wife followed the above score almost to a "t".     

[Diplomacy]

No Groov, seemed like as good of a point as any to sanity check where I am at.  Jack and I had dinner, and we had a very good but blunt conversation.  He is a great guy BTW, I could answer yes to all of what Jack asked me about being "happy with" .

Jack felt she was sincere also, so it is not fair to say that is what caused the question.  I just question if I was in position to make that judgment or not.  I wanted to pose it out there.   

I got some real thick skin, I try not to get mad at people that are trying to help.

I am OK with the "what if" scenario Jack posed.  What if you met ten others, that one I understand but it is not in my nature to do that.  He may very well be right a few years from now and it does get in my head.  If I felt it was going to for sure, I would be off again to meet some others.

I have associated with a lot of Ukrainians.  I just do not think that I verb that well. 

Just not in a romantic venue, and as Jack can tell you I am learning Russian pretty well.  Somewhere between a parrot and 2 year old now.  So I am not sure where the skill really put my logic to work in the park in face to face interaction.  SO I can not count them, although they were pretty I did not find any marriage material IMO.  And to be fair I should say none that hunted me, I felt anything at all about.     I was a cute American trying his best to talk Russian.  Playing with a kid, when a lot of men would never do that.  And I sure did not have the thought provoking conversation that attracts me to certain women.  I was just having the most basic human interaction due to my lack of language skills.

The other angle is trying to put some readers in better frame of mind.  I believe that a lot of men could get wiped out by the women.  I do not even think that the women have ill intention to begin with, and honestly believe they can make it work.

You should be really discussing "it" is really like in your life. What her needs are to be happy with life are, will they be met?  You can not expect someone who has never been here to be in position to make that decision.

It is very fair to say that a lot of women there have a very unreal expectation of what their life will be here.  Many men could try to give them what they expect and go broke doing it.  I do not care how much money you had or have.

I also warn about how high you are trading up, I do not like that situation, it can cause real problems when they are surrounded by other good men here.  I feel I got an equal in all areas, and anything more than that is nothing but trouble. 

Just because you have a lot of money, does not mean you are all that smart.  So be careful there too. 

I swear I was trying to figure out if my fiance could be this nice.  All I could think of is women usually get pissed if you leave a wet towel on the floor.  Luckily it worked with her and she gave an animated response.  Nothing over the top, but I knew she was not on best behavior and letting things go.

Silly test, maybe but I know what I know now.  If she did not respond to it, I would have thought of something else I hope.  I agree that test only work if you know the person, but if you know them well enough just ask them.  I do that too.  You do not like something I do or do not do, tell me.  If you do not tell me it is your problem and we got bigger problems than whatever it is that you do or do not like.

Too many people think they can change a person, if you are not happy with that person as is.  Forget it, and let it go.

 

[GoodOlBoy]

CONGRATULATIONS Wayne, you got her out of your house.    Now change all the locks on your doors!!