Wife split!

[felix8787]

Yes, Felix, love is part of it.  If there is not some sort of mutual attraction, the relationship will not be fulfilling to either party, and could even be doomed.

You are a much younger man than me.  Hopefully you will find a young RW whose heart has not been tainted by past experiences and who will love you because of her emotional feelings.  

Gator, thanks. I also hope myself.
I would hope that there is mutual attraction and you would correct to say that it wouldn't be fulfilling and even be doomed.
I certainly do hope that she isn't tainted by past experiences. But one cannot expect a person to be untainted in one way or another even by hear say of different relationships that were doomed. Everyone will go through crappy relationships, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.


felix8787

[Ooooops]

Everyone will go through crappy relationships, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.

Exactly.    Especially when we talk about people in their 30-40-50s - they all carry past experiences  with them, but how they use 'em - that's the different story.   

[LEGAL]

jb said long ago that the patience of a saint is required.  Believe it.

BC I most certainly believe it! Olga has allot of patience for me. :angel:

[Misha]

1.  Unlike AW, the RW I met were motivated to marry.  

Can't speak for AW, but most Canadian women in their 40s would be happy to marry if they married the right guy, and many are very motivated. They won't marry just any guy, but they are actively looking and will sign up with various matchmaking agencies. Can't really see the difference.

2.  Any sort of competent AW does not need a man to feel complete.  Yet, the RW I met impressed me as needing a man to feel complete even when they had a relatively good life.  They depend upon the man for key roles (e. g., provider being one role) and not any man can fill those roles.  A RW has higher expectations for her man than an AW, even higher than a AM’s expectations for his RW wife.   Even at my advanced age, RW taught me a few things about being a man.

Again, not from my experience. Some RW are just happy to have a man, any man for intimate reasons. Could care less about his ability to be a "provider." Then again, they date local men closer to their age.

3.  I think a RW falls in love somewhat differently than AW.  The RW I dated were old enough to be immune to crazy love, that blinding haze of infatuation which may have prompted some of them to marry that “beautiful” RM only to be betrayed or abandoned by him.  RW are more pragmatic than AW, and those who have been betrayed and abandoned avoid making the same mistake.  In contrast, I have known many divorced AW who seem to be making the same mistake with their new men.

Again, not my experience. Observed a number of women in the 30s who were quite infatuated with their lovers and who did repeat the same mistakes over and over again (falling for attractive men, but men who drank too much or men who were philanderers).  
 

4.  Perhaps many will disagree with me about how RW fall in love.  I think fewer will disagree with my opinion that a RW stays in love differently than AW.  Not one divorced RW ever told me that she and her husband  simply grew apart (the canned answer from AW).   You can infer the rest.

Economic desperation makes people stay together. There is an article on MSNBC today that talks about how the number of divorces in many cities has gone down this year. People simply don't have the money to divorce and they owe more on their houses than their houses are worth. As a consequence, they are willing to put up with their spouse, because they can't afford to maintain one household, let alone two. Many Russian couples have grown apart, and the woman would have likely divorced their husbands if they were not as dependent on him financially.

What was similar to AW?  Much because women are women.  For example, an unmarried RW in her 40s seems very much like an unmarried AW in her 40s.  

Here I agree. I would also say the same thing about women in the 20s and 30s.

[Admin]

A incredible example of Forum dynamics . This thread is 61 pages long, started with someone recounting his sad matrimonial story and turned into a monster that apparently nobody can let go of.

"Is there a doctor socio-psychologist in the house" ?

It is really quite fascinating.

I think it is the mix of some fact, a ton of speculation, mixed with some mistaken perceptions, and a heavy dollop of passionate opinion. Mix together, and the result is an old-fashioned feeding frenzy.

[youtube=425,350]
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- Dan

[felix8787]

It is really quite fascinating.

I think it is the mix of some fact, a ton of speculation, mixed with some mistaken perceptions, and a heavy dollop of passionate opinion. Mix together, and the result is an old-fashioned feeding frenzy.



- Dan

After all it is a discussion board.

[Admin]

After all it is a discussion board.

It is indeed.

Having been around a few of these for a while, I always find it interesting to see the topics that set off the frenzies.

Just an observation - and I did not mean to put a damper on things.

Carry on.

- Dan

[Maxx2]

Russiangirl, you know squat.



Maxx

[Admin]

Russiangirl, you know squat.



Maxx

Maxx,

If she has misinterpreted something you wrote, please feel free to provide her sufficient information so that she might understand.

And BTW - I did not see anything in what she wrote that has not been directed toward you by others in the past.

Your chosen 'mission' seems highly likely to create that impression of you by others. It may be wrong, but you should acknowledge the pattern, and not react defensively when the inevitable occurs.

- Dan

[Doll]

In the vast majority of the women I met in Ukraine in their thirties and forties (including my wife, who was actually 29 when we first met), I didn't see any sense of needing a man as you describe.  They seemed comfortable in their single lives.  If a good man came along, they were certainly open to marriage, but there was no sense of desperation.  It could be that the women I met weren't marketing themselves in any way such as with personal ads or agencies, so we were seeing different groups.

There IS a tendency now in the FSU that women don't always want a man in their lives but I would agree to Gator and my knowledge- most FSU women do feel like being incomplete without husbands.And it is regardless their age. Not sure about AW- either they are more independent, or under the feminism influence or they just don't show it.

[Doll]

Russiangirl, you know squat.



Maxx

Maxx, she is right! Just let it go! It is time to learn how to do it.

[Doll]

Maxx,

If she has misinterpreted something you wrote, please feel free to provide her sufficient information so that she might understand.

And BTW - I did not see anything in what she wrote that has not been directed toward you by others in the past.

Your chosen 'mission' seems highly likely to create that impression of you by others. It may be wrong, but you should acknowledge the pattern, and not react defensively when the inevitable occurs.

- Dan

Agree 100%

[ScottinCrimea]

There IS a tendency now in the FSU that women don't always want a man in their lives but I would agree to Gator and my knowledge- most FSU women do feel like being incomplete without husbands.And it is regardless their age. Not sure about AW- either they are more independent, or under the feminism influence or they just don't show it.

This sense of incompleteness isn't limited to FSUW.  I sensed similar feelings with AW and AM for that matter. I think it is a natural feeling to want a companion in one's life to share it with.  I just disagreed with the sense of desperation about it that Gator had noted.

Given that, same as Gator, most of the FSUW they will encounter are those who have posted themselves on some board or with some agency, his observations are probably more relevant to those here who are searching.  As many have noted, however, one must be aware of those who don't list themselves with an agency and require alternate means to meet but would make excellent wives, perhaps in part due to this lack of desperation.

[Gator]

This sense of incompleteness isn't limited to FSUW.  I sensed similar feelings with AW and AM for that matter. I think it is a natural feeling to want a companion in one's life to share it with. 

Agree 100%.  The human species is hardwired to live as couples.

I just disagreed with the sense of desperation about it that Gator had noted.

Desperation as I define it means a woman with minimum criteria for a husband and who will throw herself at almost any man who comes along.  Her heart has no vote.  There are desperate RW for sure.  I also said that desperation turned me off. 

What is a non-desperate woman?  Even though they are motivated to list themselves with an agency or listing site as interested in meeting marriage-minded men, they will not marry any man who comes along.   Her heart has a veto. 

In summary, I encountered few desperate women (as I have defined them).  Perhaps my selection criteria ruled them out.

Given that, same as Gator, most of the FSUW they will encounter are those who have posted themselves on some board or with some agency, his observations are probably more relevant to those here who are searching.  As many have noted, however, one must be aware of those who don't list themselves with an agency and require alternate means to meet but would make excellent wives, perhaps in part due to this lack of desperation.

A desperate RW who is ideally matched with a man could perhaps make an excellent wife, even the most committed wife.  How frequently does that happen?  Rarely because my guess is that these women frequently find the lonely man (or the man who can afford only one trip) and neither person does prudent vetting.

In summary, the average non-desperate RW I met still differed from the average AW I met as follows:

1.  The RW would eagerly meet me even though an AW with the same age and beauty would be difficult to meet.

2.  The RW did not have a chip on their shoulder unlike their AW sisters who did not have as difficult of a life.  In fact, many RW have a good sense of humor if you like sarcasm and avoid silliness.

3.  The RW were more adventurous, something I relish.  Admit it, a RW who would leave her country, friends, and family has a sense of adventure.  With this sense of adventure comes intellectual curiosity, something else I appreciate immensely.

4.  While RW really wanted to know everything about me, what I did not like is the reticence that RW display in disclosing their life.  With most AW  I would find myself playing amateur psychologist about her past and her petty problems.

5.  Etc.

[ScottinCrimea]

Gator, isn't it a huge relief to be out of the dating scene?   

[Misha]

1.  The RW would eagerly meet me even though an AW with the same age and beauty would be difficult to meet.

I agree with this 100%. Women in Russia are much more likely to agree to a first date much more quickly than women in North America. Made dating using dating sites so much easier! 

4.  While RW really wanted to know everything about me, what I did not like is the reticence that RW display in disclosing their life.  With most AW  I would find myself playing amateur psychologist about her past and her petty problems.

I am not sure this is limited only to AW. In my experience, all Americans, men and women, are more likely to reveal everything to anybody. I swear, if I am bored and start talking to an American while waiting at some airport, they are likely to tell me within five minutes how much money they make, how many times they have been divorced, and with little prodding just about anything else that I would not want to know 

[Doll]

I am not sure this is limited only to AW. In my experience, all Americans, men and women, are more likely to reveal everything to anybody. I swear, if I am bored and start talking to an American while waiting at some airport, they are likely to tell me within five minutes how much money they make, how many times they have been divorced, and with little prodding just about anything else that I would not want to know  Roll Eyes

I agree but Gator is talking about AW who are dating. Probably this is the case Americans are more reserved (or American women).

[ScottinCrimea]

I agree but Gator is talking about AW who are dating. Probably this is the case Americans are more reserved (or American women).

I disagree.  AW seem to be always looking for someone to whine to.

[OlgaH]

Maxx,

If she has misinterpreted something you wrote, please feel free to provide her sufficient information so that she might understand.

And BTW - I did not see anything in what she wrote that has not been directed toward you by others in the past.

Your chosen 'mission' seems highly likely to create that impression of you by others. It may be wrong, but you should acknowledge the pattern, and not react defensively when the inevitable occurs.

- Dan

Very often we can see on this board such advice given by experienced members, who are married and who are not, as a guy in his RW pursuing should be cautious and should not fall in love with pictures, should spend more time with her and visit her in her own country to know her, her family and friends and her life style better and so on.

Maxx and other guys posting their sad story, give a bright example of the consequences, what can happen if you ignore such advice and so called by members on this board red flags at the beginning of a relationship. Misinterpretations and wrong impressions occur when some members can not simply draw a parallel between advice and sad story, most likely because of their naivety, or arrogance and ignorance. But misinterpretations and wrong impressions can also occur for purpose when some members recognize their own personality (usually in that "red flags") in such stories,    and they try to turn an author's sad story against the author, because the recognition of such fact hurts their ego,  and their  primitively sarcastic psychological description with "let it go" is nothing more, but their jabs and bitchiness towards the author.         

[Misha]

I agree but Gator is talking about AW who are dating. Probably this is the case Americans are more reserved (or American women).

Americans more reserved?!? The thing is that AM tend to decry the very same things that we find in AM  Gator writes: "RW really wanted to know everything about me." I would interpret this as meaning: RW dating AM figured out that AM love to talk endlessly so it was easier to let them do the talking. Also, talking in your first language is always easier than in your second (or third) so they were probably relieved to have AM doing the talking.

[BC]

Agree 100%.  The human species is hardwired to live as couples.

Disagree 100%.  The human species is hardwired for sex, and all evidence shows we are not monogamous.

So here we sit, thinking we have found the magic bullet to utopia in some FSU woman when really all we are interested in is only having a woman by our side and not necessarily one woman for our entire life.  Vice versa for women.

Relationships are going to come and go.. this is natural.  The only thing is that those jetting across the planet are bound to make more of a mess out of it than with a local relationship when things go bad.

Now with this group, we are talking about an older crowd of men chasing a younger crowd of women that will have them.. At least we have a better chance of our relationship outliving our bodies.  But that's not monogamy.

So.. in a tangible way we buy into our relationships with our assets..  Been like that for centuries so nothing really new.

Mankind (both sexes) on average will always seek the path of least resistance, with substance greasing the way.  It is a slippery slope and some like Wayne will get scratched, bruised or worse along the way.

An interesting mix of Freud and Darwin.

[Wayne]

Let me clarify something.  Wife and I did not have sex after the wedding night, as I said before.  Her move to sleeping in another room did not take place on the day after the wedding.  It was more gradual.  Let me explain: 

They found out how to watch Russian TV on the computer with high speed connection.  Daughter had to get up early for school, and I had to go to work and got up at 6:00 am.  I usually went to bed after the news was over.  Wife stayed up much later and went to bed after I was already asleep.  After wife got the check from the airlines for the missing luggage, she bought a strange, round easy chair.  There is a side story, that I can get to later, about how she wanted everything round.  Actually, I only remember ever seeing a round bed, about 7 feet in diameter once in my life.

So, a  few times I would be going to work, and see her sleeping on the round chair.  So, maybe she fell asleep watching TV.  No big deal!

Wife complained because I use and electric toothbrush that was recommended by my Dentist.  Yes, the rotation of the brush did as wife said:  make sparks!”  Of course, cleaning the bathroom once in a while would have taken care of this and mostly I did clean up after myself. 

So, we have 5 bathrooms and there were 4 people.  Wife took over a separate bathroom and assigned daughter and student to their own bath.  That was not a problem.  The girls all had many bottles of who knows what, hair dryer and curling iron, etc.  It was a relief to finally be able to navigate my bath.  Funny thing!  Wife could not use the rectangular shaped waste basket. We had to buy a round one.  Wife tied bright red ribbons with fancy bow around the toilet bowl and tank, round waste basket, faucet and even the drain pipes.

Before they came, I had purchased a new dining room set with large rectangular table.  One of first things wife did when she came was to remove the new dining set and exchange it with a very old, round table and 4 chairs with rounded backs that used to be in my parents cottage, years ago. 

When we were looking at cars, I insisted that we get either a 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive vehicle.  Of course, most of these vehicles have a boxy or rectangular appearance.  However, we ended up with a vehicle that has a very rounded shape.

Wife sleeps curled up with her knees up against her chest and arms wrapped around—like a ball shape.
 s
So, she withdrew more gradually from our bedroom.  First, moving some of her clothes out of the dresser and closet.  Although she did leave a few things in the closet.  One strange thing I found recently when cleaning up.  Her dog had very long fur and when the weather got warm, wife cut the dogs hair very short.  She had saved all the dog fur and had it in a plastic bag in the closet.

OK, arm chair Psychologists!  Sometime in June, wife was excited and told me about “E”.  L had this close friend E who moved to a city that is a 3 hour drive from us.  So, this E, I am told is a Psychic and will help wife with her psychological problems, especially concerning sex.  I thought that E would just try to scam some money, but wife insisted that E would not charge her anything.  So wife made several trips to E, staying one or more overnights.  Each time wife came back with questions.  For example:  before she came, wife insisted that my bed was too small, so I bought a new king size bed.  I got 4 sets of sheets, which were expensive.  This was more than two years ago.  I used only one set of the sheets, just washing them and putting the same ones back on the bed.  So when wife arrived, I gave her the 3 new sets of sheets still in the packages.  But wife kept washing the sheets that I had been using and kept saying that they had stains on them.  I could not see any stains at all!  She would show me the sheets, point to an area, and say “Look at those stains!”  But I saw nothing!  Finally, I disposed of the old sheets.

So another time, the Psychic had wife ask me if there were photographs of Svetlana on the walls?  Of course, I did not have any photographs of Svetlana around.  Realize, I am an Artist, my father and sister painted, I have a large amount of art.  Wife took down most of the art and I put it away in the basement.  But the psychic did have something right.  Remember, Svetlana is an Artist.  I was helping her by selling some of her art.  I still had some pieces.  Wife never seemed interested in art and did not ask me who did which painting.  If she had looked very carefully Sveta signed her work in a very hidden manner where the signature was part of the design.   

When I first went to meet wife in Russia, I told her about Svetlana.  We were starting to put together the information for the visa petition and there is a question on the form asking if you every petitioned for anyone before and to list the details.  We had a girl terp helping, so I explained about Svetlana to her in English and she spoke to wife. 

When I got back to USA, wife asked more questions and wanted to see a photograph of Svetlana.  I emailed her a photo of Sveta and her daughter when they arrived at the airport in Chicago.  Then, wife wanted to know why I still had photographs of her!

Now, skip back to a few weeks ago.  Wife asks me, why did you buy roses for Svetlana—but not for me?  She saw them on the photograph.  Actually, I planned to get flowers for wife ate the airport shop, but it was late when her flight landed and the shop was closed.  Anyway, why bring this up almost 5 years later?

[ScottinCrimea]

Very often we can see on this board such advice given by experienced members, who are married and who are not, as a guy in his RW pursuing should be cautious and should not fall in love with pictures, should spend more time with her and visit her in her own country to know her, her family and friends and her life style better and so on.

Maxx and other guys posting their sad story, give a bright example of the consequences, what can happen if you ignore such advice and so called by members on this board red flags at the beginning of a relationship. Misinterpretations and wrong impressions occur when some members can not simply draw a parallel between advice and sad story, most likely because of their naivety, or arrogance and ignorance. But misinterpretations and wrong impressions can also occur for purpose when some members recognize their own personality (usually in that "red flags") in such stories,    and they try to turn an author's sad story against the author, because the recognition of such fact hurts their ego,  and their  primitively sarcastic psychological description with "let it go" is nothing more, but their jabs and bitchiness towards the author.         

Excellent post!!

[Admin]

Disagree 100%.  The human species is hardwired for sex, and all evidence shows we are not monogamous.

So here we sit, thinking we have found the magic bullet to utopia in some FSU woman when really all we are interested in is only having a woman by our side and not necessarily one woman for our entire life.  Vice versa for women.

Relationships are going to come and go.. this is natural.  The only thing is that those jetting across the planet are bound to make more of a mess out of it than with a local relationship when things go bad.

Now with this group, we are talking about an older crowd of men chasing a younger crowd of women that will have them.. At least we have a better chance of our relationship outliving our bodies.  But that's not monogamy.

So.. in a tangible way we buy into our relationships with our assets..  Been like that for centuries so nothing really new.

Mankind (both sexes) on average will always seek the path of least resistance, with substance greasing the way.  It is a slippery slope and some like Wayne will get scratched, bruised or worse along the way.

An interesting mix of Freud and Darwin.

Chipping in with some support for this argument - reference this link -- http://www.trinity.edu/rnadeau/fys/barash%20on%20monogamy.htm

Article synopsis:

There is no question about monogamy's being natural. It isn't. But at the same time, there is no reason to conclude that adultery is unavoidable, or that it is good. "Smallpox is natural," wrote Ogden Nash. "Vaccine ain't." Animals, most likely, can't help "doing what comes naturally." But humans can. A strong case can even be made that we are never so human as when we behave contrary to our natural inclinations, those most in tune with our biological impulses.

In Civilization and Its Discontents, Freud argued that civilization is founded on the repression of instincts. It now seems clear that one of those instincts leads us away from monogamy. Whether we choose to follow, on the other hand, is up to us.

Natural conundrum - cognitive dissonance - the residue of the Puritan influences - instinct versus cultural mores.

It is all rather interesting, isn't it?

- Dan

[ScottinCrimea]

Good Lord. Wayne, you could have saved 30 pages of this thread had you explained these things earlier!

Some of the things you describe about your wife make perfect sense if you understand her culture.  Some are just plain weird!