Wife split!

[Sculpto]

The biggest speculation is that the woman did this in a systematic and premeditated way.  That is why I keep opposing the conclusion.

[dispozo]

The biggest thing anybody can learn from this tread is to GET TO KNOW YOUR LADY!!!

Ask the questions and do not make excuse....

I am in a new country, less then 6 months. No job, can not speak the language well. No family, no friends and a kid to take care of. My marriage falls apart, what do I do.......

Myself, I  would return home family and friends that will help get back on my feet. A language I can speak.

[OlgaH]

The biggest speculation is that the woman did this in a systematic and premeditated way.  That is why I keep opposing the conclusion.

The biggest speculation is the members of this board talk so much about agencies' mythes about Russian women, but when a guy posted what problems he faced in his life with a Russian woman the members are ready to throw their guesses-speculations in his face about him, more over very low speculations.

If you want to keep opposing the conclusion just ask additional questions, if OP doesn't answer move away without applying your own imagination to facts given by OP.

[Sculpto]

The biggest speculation is that members on this board talk so much about agencies' mythes about Russian women, but when a guy posted what problems he faced in his life with a Russian woman the members are ready to throw their guesses-speculations in his face about him, more over very low speculations.

If you want to keep opposing the conclusion just ask additional questions, if OP doesn't answer move away without applying your own imagination to facts given by OP.

The questions keeping coming up simply because there are too many unanswered questions from Wayne.  As I have said I am sympathetic to him.  I have been through nasty breakups that resulted in major setbacks in my life so I promise you Olga, I know how he feels for the most part.  Lost, shock, suprise, uncertainty, self questioning and so on, not mention lonliness. 

At the same time I think there is too much judgement in this thread for the amount of information available and curious minds will persist in either speculating or trying to fill in the blanks.  Besides.. at one point in my life on the first night I had moved in with a new GF I learned that I had really bad gas when I was sleeping.. she threw me out of her bed the next morning.  Did she love me?  Yes.. was she willing to live with stinky gas?  No.  For some people some sacrifices are too much to ask. 

I do think even mentioning the lowest accusation/speculation that appeared on this thread was a low blow. 

[LEGAL]

Sorry for the  Time for some humor


Sculpto Is that when you found beeno and now life is great and she lets you sleep in the bed 

[Misha]

You are 100% right Misha.  Except for the exceptions.  Every person is different. What if there was something she found really offensive but was too shy to discuss it? 

If there are things you are too shy to talk to your husband about, you should not be getting married.

[OlgaH]

If there are things you are too shy to talk to your husband about, you should not be getting married.

Exactly, love and family is based on trust and sincerity.

[OlgaH]

Besides.. at one point in my life on the first night I had moved in with a new GF I learned that I had really bad gas when I was sleeping.. she threw me out of her bed the next morning.  Did she love me?  Yes.. was she willing to live with stinky gas?  No.  For some people some sacrifices are too much to ask. 
 

Very often there is lack of nurse service in Russian hospitals, because of small salaries. People even pay (in envelops) additional money to nurses for good care of their relatives. Women who have not so much money come to the hospitals to care of their husbands, who can not live bed, themselves. They change husband's diapers, wash their husbands and change the dirty bedclothes.

What about women who don't leave their paralyzed husbands and look after them... "Till death do us part"?

Yes, for some people some sacrifices are too much to ask, especially when they don't have any intention for it or desire to find a compromise or resolve a problem together. And it is also about love.

[Misha]

Besides.. at one point in my life on the first night I had moved in with a new GF I learned that I had really bad gas when I was sleeping.. she threw me out of her bed the next morning.  Did she love me?  Yes.. was she willing to live with stinky gas?  No.  For some people some sacrifices are too much to ask. 

I am sorry Sculpto, IMHO you confuse infatuation and love. Yes, sleeping with a guy who passes gas when he sleeps quickly deflates infatuation. However, if  woman loves you, she will encourage you to seek solutions to your problem. Perhaps the gas is a sign of poor health? Perhaps it is a sign of poor diet? Perhaps it is a sign of lactose intolerance? If she loves you, she will stand by your stinky side as you seek out a solution to your gas problem. 

[Jet]

The questions keeping coming up simply because there are too many unanswered questions from Wayne.  As I have said I am sympathetic to him. 

At the same time I think there is too much judgement in this thread for the amount of information available and curious minds will persist in either speculating or trying to fill in the blanks.

I couldn't agree more, yet being sympathetic does not mean we must totally absolve Wayne of any bad judgement, wrongdoing, or other contributions he may have made which resulted in his being in the situation he finds himself in currently.

I do think even mentioning the lowest accusation/speculation that appeared on this thread was a low blow. 

I will assume you are speaking of the hypothetical scenario I posted. I thought I made it abundantly clear TWICE that this was neither accusation nor speculation, simply a POSSIBLE scenario which would dramatically alter public opinion. Sometime back Maxx posed the question "How much evidence would it take to convince you?" I think that my illustration showed clearly, that for folks like William3rd there would be no amount of new evidence substantial enough to overcome their presumption of this being a premeditated GC scam. IMO it ould go either way, still not enough facts to know for sure...

[Faux Pas]

I couldn't agree more, yet being sympathetic does not mean we must totally absolve Wayne of any bad judgement, wrongdoing, or other contributions he may have made which resulted in his being in the situation he finds himself in currently.

I will assume you are speaking of the hypothetical scenario I posted. I thought I made it abundantly clear TWICE that this was neither accusation nor speculation, simply a POSSIBLE scenario which would dramatically alter public opinion. Sometime back Maxx posed the question "How much evidence would it take to convince you?" I think that my illustration showed clearly, that for folks like William3rd there would be no amount of new evidence substantial enough to overcome their presumption of this being a premeditated GC scam. IMO it ould go either way, still not enough facts to know for sure...

From most of the posts in this thread it wouldn't appear to me that Wayne has been absolved of anything. Quite the contrary. Much more finger pointing in Wayne's direction than anywhere and probably justified because of his poor judgement. But some of these accusations are completely unjustified and totally off the chart. Wayne is the member on the forum and told his side of the story. Shouldn't he be permitted some lead way as such? If Wayne didn't tell all of the pertinent facts of his situation what does he have to gain, other than bad advice? Nobody has discovered anywhere that Wayne mistreated this lady or where he misrepresented himself to her. Accusations of sex with the daughter or farting on her in bed are absolutely preposterous and completely outlandish.

My point here is, Wayne is a member of the forum and here for advice and support. We should offer that to him unless someone has some credible information to the contrary. It's been abundantly clear from his statements, Wayne has been gullible and made some very poor judgements. This is no crime or even personality defects. His wife's motives appear very suspect. Unless she joins the forum with her side of the story we will never know for certain. Our advice and judgements should be based on the facts as Wayne presents them rather than throwing poop on the wall to see what sticks. IMHO

[Wayne]

As you know, I have no internet at home at the present time, so I cannot answer so much.

Wife stayed over night with me when I was in Russia.  There was no surprises.  I do not have bed bugs!  I watch what I eat and do not smell bad!  I keep myself clean.

Wife is a very sound sleeper.  I never woke her up by snoring.  Actually, her little dog snores very loudly!  The king size bed has high clearance underneath and the dog's bed was under it.  The dog could not jump up on top of the bed by herself.  So wife was used to snoring and liked to have the dog sleep next to her. 

On time during the middle of the night, I got up to use the toilet.  Of course, I did not turn on the bedroom light, and it is very dark because there are no street lights.  I was in the hallway and slipped and fell because the floor was wet.  I fell face first right in the middle of the dog piss!  So I think I must have had some choice remarks concerning the dog.  So wife did wake up.  She used a brand new bath towel to wipe up the floor!

The dog refused to eat any kind of dog food.  We went to Petsmart and bought every expensive can they had.  Dog would only eat meat.  Wife would take something like a sirloin steak, cut it up into little pieces, microwave it and serve it up to her dog.  One time, she took a whole big chunk of prime rib, boiled it for several hours, and turned it into dog food.

I did not choose the most beautiful woman.  There were several other women much better looking that I corresponded with and/or met in person.  Some of the women were never married and had no children.

The first AM that M was involved with was a doctor.  He gave some medicine to M for daughter.  Wife wanted me to email to this doctor to get more of this medicine.  Actually, he sent me about a dozen small free sample bottles and I sent them to wife.

With the second AM, wife wanted me to help him plan the trip to Russia and later, help him with the visa paper work.

I never did anything wrong with daughter.  I treated her the same as my own child. 

When we went to the biometrics, they were measured.  Wife was 5feet 5 inches tall and weighed 130 pounds.  Daughter was 5 feet 7 inches tall and weighed 205 pounds.  By this time, it was evident to me that daughter needed to change her diet and exercise more, so I spoke to wife about it.  Daughter would take a one pound bag of potato chips to her room and eat the whole bag at one time.  She would open a large can of fruit and eat it right out of the can.  That is, if it had heavy syrup.  She did not like fruit in light syrup or natural juice.  I was concerned about daughter and tried to help her.  I took them to the doctor and they did various tests.  I had bikes, basket ball, volley ball, etc. that were not used.

As I said before, wife was served the papers but has not responded yet to my attorney.  He sent a "proof of service" to the court.

[Sculpto]

Sorry for the  Time for some humor


Sculpto Is that when you found beeno and now life is great and she lets you sleep in the bed 

lmfao.. actually that relationship ended a long time ago and was in many ways the last straw I had with WW. 

[Sculpto]

I am sorry Sculpto, IMHO you confuse infatuation and love. Yes, sleeping with a guy who passes gas when he sleeps quickly deflates infatuation. However, if  woman loves you, she will encourage you to seek solutions to your problem. Perhaps the gas is a sign of poor health? Perhaps it is a sign of poor diet? Perhaps it is a sign of lactose intolerance? If she loves you, she will stand by your stinky side as you seek out a solution to your gas problem. 

Misha.. you are going to make that judgement based on one paragraph I wrote about a relationship that happened over 10 years ago?  and yes it was diet and lactose.. both of which have been cleared up now.

That is EXACTLY why I do not want to jump to make a conclusion about Wayne's wife. 

And btw.. the lady who kicked me out of bed for stinky farts did love me... but also was by far the biggest scam artist I have even known.  American born and raised.. Long Island princess... fortuantely I was only a pawn in her scam which involved the extraction of very large amounts of money from her millionaire grandfather.  Once I saw what she was doing I dumped her and ran as fast as I could.  She continues to occasionally pursue me to this day claiming I broke her heart and that she did it all for me so we could have a nice comfortable life together and so neither of us would have to work at jobs and could focus on art.  That is what I walked away from because of my ethical standards.. and the fact that she was by far the most selfish, self centered, egotistical and inconsiderate woman I have ever known.  She was also beautiful, brilliant and really fun.. as long as EVERYONE around her conformed to her ideas.

So, getting back to Wayne.. I think what has happened is tragic but I see a lack of good judgement on both parties that has resulted in some severely messed up actions.. the things people do when they are desperate is a completely different set of rules as someone who pre-meditates a GCG scam. 

[groovlstk]

And btw.. the lady who kicked me out of bed for stinky farts did love me... but also was by far the biggest scam artist I have even known.  American born and raised.. Long Island princess...

Sculpto, this sounds like the beginnings of a great country music ballad 

[Gator]

As I said before, wife was served the papers but has not responded yet to my attorney.  He sent a "proof of service" to the court.

Glad to know you took the initiative.

Daughter was 5 feet 7 inches tall and weighed 205 pounds.  

Definitely not healthy.  And something is going on here psychologically considering she has a Russian heritage.  Wayne, the more you say, the more bizarre this becomes.  

A knew guideline, do not marry bizarre.  


Wayne, you sound resentful about many of the expenses that your wife incurred.  Did you resent it at the time, or did you feel good about spending money on things that made her happy because you loved her?

[Misha]

Misha.. you are going to make that judgement based on one paragraph I wrote about a relationship that happened over 10 years ago?  and yes it was diet and lactose.. both of which have been cleared up now.

And btw.. the lady who kicked me out of bed for stinky farts did love me...  I was only a pawn in her scam which involved the extraction of very large amounts of money from her millionaire grandfather. 

Sorry, my only conclusion is that you do not know what love is. If she was using you to scam her grandfather, it was not love. Also, to throw in a pop psychology term, co-dependency is not love either. Also, "love" that is simply one's need to satiate one's ego and narcissism is not love either (which is what you describe when talking about the ex who dumped you for the noxious night odors  ).

I still stand by my statement: a woman who REALLY loves you, will not dump you for minor problems.

[Sculpto]

Sorry, my only conclusion is that you do not know what love is. If she was using you to scam her grandfather, it was not love. Also, to throw in a pop psychology term, co-dependency is not love either. Also, "love" that is simply one's need to satiate one's ego and narcissism is not love either (which is what you describe when talking about the ex who dumped you for the noxious night odors  ).

I still stand by my statement: a woman who REALLY loves you, will not dump you for minor problems.

Now you conclude that I do not know what love is?  Come on man.. get a grip!  You are reading way too much into the statements which is again exactly why I will not pass judgement on Wayne's situation. 

Also, are you now claiming to be the definitive expert on defining what is and what is not love? 

BTW.. I actually agree with your comments about what love is or is not.. but I do not agree with your method of judgement.  I find your statements to be much too quick and without adequate information. 

[Misha]

Now you conclude that I do not know what love is?  Come on man.. get a grip!  You are reading way too much into the statements which is again exactly why I will not pass judgement on Wayne's situation. 

Why? You post long threads revealing everything. Not every man will admit that he was dumped for flatulence  :evil: I would say that is more than enough for me to draw some conclusions. I will stick to my theory until it has been falsified.

[OlgaH]

Misha made a very good post regarding a family life.

The important thing is having a good marriage where you actually discuss home finances and decide together what is best for the family.

A key word in a family is "together"

The most popular phrase on this board is "You will know when a RW loves you or is into you". How you will know that  a woman has married you because she loves you and into you?

Does she actively participate in the family life?

Does she care about your opinion, thoughts and feelings? Is it important for her?

Does she has a desire to communicate with you and spend time with you or she avoid it by all means and what you can do is just ask, beg, prod and impel her about it?

Does she take interest in what you are interested in?

Does she take interest and participate in planing family budget,  what your job is, how you earn the money for family or she is just interested in spending the money?

Wife spent several hours each day talking on the phone to her Russian friends, but she did not even try to talk to me.  Wife, daughter and student ate dinner early before I got home from work.  Normally, this is a time when the family can communicate. 

Before they came, I had purchased a new dining room set with large rectangular table.  One of first things wife did when she came was to remove the new dining set and exchange it with a very old, round table and 4 chairs with rounded backs that used to be in my parents cottage, years ago. 

Wife picked out the car.  It was much more than i could afford. 

Sometime shortly after we got the new car, my key disapeared.  Wife did not let me drive the car unless we were going somewhere together.

Wife put a lock on the room where the computer is located.  So I can only write from my work at lunch or after work time. 

  Wife avoided my family and friends.  I tried to get wife to do things together.

One hot day in July, boss gave me the Friday afternoon off.  So I came home early and wanted family to do something together.  After much prodding, we did go to one of the beaches, but wife only wanted to lay in the Sun and get a tan.  There were several art galleries nearby and a student show right on the beach that I walked around and saw.  I could not get wife interested in anything.

A little over a week ago, she got angry again, started an arguement.  Actually, it was all her anger.  Next day, came home from work, found wife and step-daughter gone, everything packed up and gone. 

Wife took new car that is in my name; computer, cable modem, etc.    Many debts ran up because wife likes to buy things and has expensive tastes.

Two days ago, wife shows up at house.  Angry!  Demands her mail, but she did not receive any.  Looking for green cards to arrive, probably.  Wife admits she has a boyfriend and moved in with him.  I wondered how she was getting all the expensive new clothes.  Tells me her immigration lawyer says she has to live with me for the green card issue.  Says she is moving back in. 

She doesn't clean, cook or do laundry for me.  House was never so dirty before.  Lets her dog mess all over the house and does not clean it up. 

Any ideas?  Help!

A woman who doesn't love you will be irritated (annoyed, angry, exasperated) with everithing that concerns you.

One man on the immigration fraud forum shared his experience and observation :

You are the only men she wants before the marriage, after the marriage and AOS filing, you start appearing to be the worst men to be with.

In the thread "The train came off the tracks" Gator wrote:

not talking, not wanting to see you, and lying are not cultural and are deal killers.

and being a wise man he added:

Good liars are difficult to catch and the truth usually comes well after the fact. 

And all these facts Wayne experienced by himself.

[Sculpto]

Why? You post long threads revealing everything. Not every man will admit that he was dumped for flatulence  :evil: I would say that is more than enough for me to draw some conclusions. I will stick to my theory until it has been falsified.

I post long threads with a lot of detail because otherwise there is too much gray area and people make assumptions.  If I am asking for help about something and I do nto give all the information how can I expect to get usefull feedback?

If you had read the post correctly you would know that I was kicked out of the bed.. not dumped in the relationship.  I left the woman later after I discovered she was scammed her senile multi millionaire grandfather.

There is no one right or wrong way to have a relationship.  Some people will do things one way and others another and both will be equally satisfied or disatisfied with the results which may or may not be the same.  Sure, there are some generalizations that are valid but there are always exceptions.  I find the exceptions to be a lot more interesting.. but that is just me. 

[Misha]

There is no one right or wrong way to have a relationship.  

Isn't that what everybody says before they crash and burn? There was once someone who posted on these forums (Alfie?) who was an artist and ended up getting together with a woman he had never met and IIRC who did not speak any English. She won some kind of green card lottery (I can't remember the details). Last I heard, she showed up, spent a few days with him and then fled. Pretty much any sane person could have seen the train wreck coming from miles away, but he was convinced that his way is the right way....

[Sculpto]

Isn't that what everybody says before they crash and burn? There was once someone who posted on these forums (Alfie?) who was an artist and ended up getting together with a woman he had never met and IIRC who did not speak any English. She won some kind of green card lottery (I can't remember the details). Last I heard, she showed up, spent a few days with him and then fled. Pretty much any sane person could have seen the train wreck coming from miles away, but he was convinced that his way is the right way....

Great example of an exception.  And I suspect you remembered it because of its exceptional qualities.. regardless of the blindness of the person involved. 

Which is why Wayne's situation is so difficult to analyze correctly.  Not busting on Wayne, but, the details have come out slowly and vaguely.  The best advice was given to him on the first couple of pages of the thread but for whatever reason the thread has remained alive.  We have a couple of women who keep on defending Wayne's X, a few men who see scam at every turn, and others who still are not convinced one way or the other. 

I get the feeling there are some people who just see things in black and white and others who see them in a myriad of grays.  No judgement in the statement.. just different ways of seeing the world and each individuals place in it.  But, those who see in black and white are frustrated by those who see things in grays because in a black and white world there IS a definitive answer to every question.  Unfortunately I think the more certain of definitives the more likely to have the bubble burst by an unexpected exception.

[Misha]

Which is why Wayne's situation is so difficult to analyze correctly. 

IMHO, Wayne's situation is quite easy to analyze. He married a woman who was a stranger and clearly she did not love him. Whether she is a GCG or something else is irrelevant to me. Perhaps she deluded him, perhaps he deluded himself, perhaps it was a combination of the two, but at the end of the day he did not know her even if they were married 4 years while she waited for her American visa. It should serve as a warning: if you play with fire (marrying strangers) you are likely to get burnt.

[Gator]

Whether she is a GCG or something else is irrelevant to me. Perhaps she deluded him, perhaps he deluded himself, perhaps it was a combination of the two, but at the end of the day he did not know her even if they were married 4 years while she waited for her American visa.

Now that much of the evidence from Wayne's perspective has been presented, how about a combination of three delusions, the third being she deluded herself? 

That is, she initially became interested in Wayne in the hope of love, saw some serious faults yet was weary of the chase (there were two other AM before Wayne), and said "I will" while hoping for the best.   As each year passed, she became more locked in, especially while Wayne kept supporting her (the "negative" aspect of supporting a RW before you marry her).  She looked forward to her new life with Wayne, all the time having some doubts but wanting it to happen.

She made the journey to America, realized after living with Wayne full time (not the same as a short-term visit in her city) that Wayne, his town or whatever would never work.  However,  she certainly did not want to start afresh, especially with a daughter who needed help.  So she said "I do" then started looking for another option. 

Did she have a Plan to leave Wayne before she arrived?  That would make her a first-degree GCG.  I think not because I assume a GCG would play the False DV card as part of her Plan.  Also, a preconceived Plan would have a better support strategy than shacking up short-term with some womanizer down the road from Wayne.  That suggests that she was a third-degree GCG. 

What do you say William?