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Author Topic: Kiev Post article on Ukraine economic situation  (Read 18280 times)

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Offline Mir

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Re: Kiev Post article on Ukraine economic situation
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2009, 02:36:00 AM »
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They were better off under the Soviet system!!

If that is true then every country will be better off under the Soviet system.
Perhaps we should establish Soviet governments in Europe and USA.
Come back uncle Joe we need you :)

Offline Gator

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Re: Kiev Post article on Ukraine economic situation
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2009, 06:35:55 AM »
If that is true then every country will be better off under the Soviet system.
Perhaps we should establish Soviet governments in Europe and USA.
Come back uncle Joe we need you :)

There you go again -thinking intelligently.

Offline krimster

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Re: Kiev Post article on Ukraine economic situation
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2009, 08:05:20 AM »
One could make an argument that Ukraine's poor economic prospects both past and present were actually the result of Stalinism.  Recently, state archives have shed light on the details of purging "Kulaks" during the 1930's, providing details on what would qualify someone as a Kulak, or member of the counter-revolutionary Bourgeoisie.  In some instances, owning a pig or a cow or a broken chandelier would be enough evidence to get your family sent to a Gulag or even shot.  Starving to death a quarter of your population or shooting them or imprisoning them is actually counter productive to achieving economic prosperity.  Ukraine's industry was established to provide for the needs of the state and not for actual human beings.  Simply because the  communist state collapsed in 1991, doesn't mean its institutions or social conditions did as well, many still persist to this day.  Agriculture was mentioned as a large segment of Ukraine's economy.  However, to this very day, most of Ukraine's farm land is still owned and run by the state, and run with such appalling inefficiency and ludicrous practices that it actually ends up being a drag on the economy.  Actual entrepreneurs are rare in Ukraine, because it's so difficult.  Let me share with you one little story, 'horrosho?  A friend I have in Sevastopol rents a little kiosk in 5th kilometer market in Sevastopol and sells candy.  Every day a tax inspector comes to his kiosk, does an inventory of his candy stock, subtracts today's stock from yesterday's stock, and calls the difference "sales", he then collects 13% of the sales as tax, plus a few candy bars for his children as a "present".  When my friend drives a small truck to Kyiv to replenish his stock, he will find on his way back 2-3 roadblocks by police, who stop and inspect his truck, and if all the paperwork is not in order they may decide to levy a fine or even keep some of the merchandise, and then on to the next roadblock.  Go into any teknika store in Ukraine, try to find a single product for sale actually made or designed in Ukraine, you can't.  This means no skilled factory jobs, no engineering jobs, no sales and marketing jobs.  Ukraine ends up producing a few tanks, some steel pipe, and ships some grain.  There's very little value added or produced in Ukraine, and this is why salaries are about 10% of developed economies.  Ultimately salaries are tied to the productivity of the society, and having people sitting in kiosks selling clothes made in China, or in government offices approving one form to allow you to apply for the next form doesn't particularly generate much value.  The lack of capital, the lack of business and marketing experience all have their origins as consequences of communism, these things were not wanted by the communist state.  After the fall, the large hole that appeared in Ukraine's social-economic development would be eagerly filled by kleptocrats, and that's pretty much where things stand today.

Offline Mir

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Re: Kiev Post article on Ukraine economic situation
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2009, 08:44:11 AM »
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There you go again -thinking intelligently.

Thank you for your vote of confidence although I thought I was responding to another posters 'intelligent' post with sarcasm :)

 

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