Marriage Advice

[Fashionista]

I try to be as supportive as I can, and to give her space when she needs it, but during these times she does take the brunt of her unhappiness out on me, and when she is feeling this way, life in the house is pretty brutal. She doesn’t believe in any type of therapy or counseling, so I have stopped asking.

Oh no man, you didn't.  You didn't try to send her to therapy.  She is home-sick and frustrated, not mentally ill.  According to you she was perfectly capable of functioning in Russia, and very well so, so it's not just in her head.  It's a real-life problem, and you should be the one for her to talk to, support her and slip an occasional amphetamine pill in her morning coffee. Ok, that last pill bit was a joke.  But seriously, what if situation was reverse, you moved to Russia, couldn't speak, find a job, even perform simple tasks, how long would it take for you to feel utterly useless? Would you want her reaction to be: "Ok, dear, here's a bottle of vodka, drown your sorrows, because I want you to be happy".  I mean, I don't know both sides of the story, and I too don't understand why she's refusing your help to find a job in the US, but chances are, now she feels that not only her old life is shattered, but she lives with a person who doesn't understand her either.  I don't really know what to say here if she's so desperate.  In any case it's for you two to come up with a solution, and it shouldn't involve doctors or any third parties other than employers for that matter.

[groovlstk]

My wife experienced some of this same despair while she was searching for her first job here. There were a lot of ups and downs, she was offered a job after her very first interview (and quit after one day - ultimately she did this twice with my blessing - there are lots of employers who are out to screw new immigrants, both literally and figuratively). She'd get depressed when a few days passed after sending out a dozen resumes and there were no call backs, she would get nostalgic (and still does) for her career in Moscow, etc. At the time it seemed like a setback - she had been here for exactly one year and during that time had overcome the usual assortment of high hurdles while adjusting to her new life, yet her career success was a source of pride to her and when she didn't see immediate results suddenly life in the US was dreary and she longed for Moscow.

Anyway, what worked for me was simply being supportive of her in these times. She was very successful in Moscow and I kept reminding her of this and of the similarities between Moscow and NYC, etc., and how it was only a matter of patience and time before she got some traction, and that I'd support her until she found what she was looking for and never expect her to work some menial job at Walmart. Sometimes she'd feel better for 30 mins. after one of these peptalks and then fall back into a funk and I'd have to repeat myself or find a new angle. Again and again. It was tempting to think along the lines of "she needs to work this out on her own" or "she needs her private space" during this time. Hogwash. There's no denying it was a lot of work and a little exhausting but at the end of the day it not only made her feel better - after all, I was the only person on the planet at the time who could have served this role in her life - but reminded her in a reverse way why she came here in the first place, not for her career but to be with the person who loved her most in the world and was willing to do whatever it took to make her happy.

I'd also agree w/Fashionista - she's not in need of therapy, she'd probably do better with a career coach or job placement specialist. The therapy piece of it falls on your shoulders in providing her w/emotional support and confidence. If she doesn't want you to serve in this role then something is wrong and I'd be really, really careful.

[gousa]

Something about the Russian women's culture seems to
completely block communication and counseling which is essential
for the perpetuation of relationships in America.   IMHO many Russian women
must harbor some strange belief that communication only diminishes
their life relationships.   My ex also refused counseling, even mocked the counseling process.   But counseling is the only way to take a swing at effective and usefull communication.    She may take her frustrations out on you.  Unfortunately there is no silver bullet to figuring out any successfull relationship path, and everybody always would like a cure all.
Much of American relationship culture, and most other American processes
center around extensive communication and debate.  That's our culture.

Grch your wife is exhibiting an admirable quality.  She wants to
contribute to her new life and be successful at it, which is an interesting
contrast to my ex who only wanted to excel at being a spoiled sugarbaby.
Your gal seems to have this admirable quality but to really back it up
she could be more open to the counseling and communication.

[Fashionista]

Something about the Russian women's culture seems to
completely block communication and counseling which is essential
for the perpetuation of relationships in America.   IMHO many Russian women
must harbor some strange belief that communication only diminishes
their life relationships.   My ex also refused counseling, even mocked the counseling process.   But counseling is the only way to take a swing at effective and usefull communication.    She may take her frustrations out on you.  Unfortunately there is no silver bullet to figuring out any successfull relationship path, and everybody always would like a cure all.
Much of American relationship culture, and most other American processes
center around extensive communication and debate.  That's our culture.

Grch your wife is exhibiting an admirable quality.  She wants to
contribute to her new life and be successful at it, which is an interesting
contrast to my ex who only wanted to excel at being a spoiled sugarbaby.
Your gal seems to have this admirable quality but to really back it up
she could be more open to the counseling and communication.

I must agree that American relationship culture centers around extensive communication with a therapist. 

[BC]

I must agree that American relationship culture centers around extensive communication with a therapist. 

Fashionista,

Yes the therapist's couch has almost become a part of family culture.

.. just like the local wise babushka in RU.

Both seem to serve well at times, but do agree that the 'lure' of simply paying someone to make the problem go away can sometimes be greater than dealing with the problem at hand.  Path of least resistance..  The psychologists end up just as frustrated, write a prescription and take a pill themselves to escape for a while.

[Blues Fairy]

I must agree that American relationship culture centers around extensive communication with a therapist.

Which is a very good solution to problems that cannot be handled by families themselves, due to the absence of the culture of reading appropriate psychological literature.  Many obvious methods of dealing with household situations are sometimes completely buried under people's misconceptions and childhood stereotypes. 

[Faux Pas]

In a time not so very long ago most people would not go to a psychiatrist. Most people sought that help and advice from family and friends. It is becoming a more occurring theme nowadays for some to believe they need one for everyday problems.  :noidea:

[Blues Fairy]

In a time not so very long ago most people would not go to a psychiatrist. Most people sought that help and advice from family and friends. It is becoming a more occurring theme nowadays for some to believe they need one for everyday problems.  :noidea:

Some time ago most people spanked their kids and thought it absolutely normal.  Nowadays psychological research yields more effective methods of dealing with strong-willed children if people give themselves the trouble to read up on the subject and practice, or go to a therapist whose job is to read up on the subject and practice.   

[BC]

Some time ago most people spanked their kids and thought it absolutely normal.  Nowadays psychological research yields more effective methods of dealing with strong-willed children if people give themselves the trouble to read up on the subject and practice, or go to a therapist whose job is to read up on the subject and practice.   

'strong willed'... hmm..

Lets call it totally spoiled exacerbated by technology and lack of quality parenting time.

Spanking is a thing of the past.. the worst punishment possible nowdays is taking their mobile phone away.

[Faux Pas]

Some time ago most people spanked their kids and thought it absolutely normal.  Nowadays psychological research yields more effective methods of dealing with strong-willed children if people give themselves the trouble to read up on the subject and practice, or go to a therapist whose job is to read up on the subject and practice.   

I'm not sure you are comparing apples to apples but FWIW I always thought I deserved every whipping I received (if I didn't for a particular offense, there were others I didn't get a whipping for). I was much more lenient with my children but they were familiar with action and reaction. Sparring the rod or using the rod, both methods were psychological.

[groovlstk]

Some time ago most people spanked their kids and thought it absolutely normal.  Nowadays psychological research yields more effective methods of dealing with strong-willed children if people give themselves the trouble to read up on the subject and practice, or go to a therapist whose job is to read up on the subject and practice.   

BF, I'm a believer in marriage counseling and therapy in general, but I've seen enough bad industry practices to be reflexively suspicious. Just sayin', but for instance the entire "self esteem" craze of the 90s was a misguided and foolish obsession that spawned a generation of narcissists with a boundless sense of entitlement. Another more grave error from the same approximate period was the "repressed memory" thing, where suddenly people in therapy were remembering episodes of sexual abuse from their past. Lives and careers were ruined, in some cases by disturbed adult children who accused parents of sexual abuse decades after the fact, having suddenly remembered it after a few popular magazines published similar instances involving celebrities.

While I'll never deny the need and usefulness of therapists, I also think Americans in general are way too dependent on them and have developed a lurid, unhealthy fascination with pop psychology. I'll take Dr. Spock over Dr. Phil anyday 

[Blues Fairy]

While I'll never deny the need and usefulness of therapists, I also think Americans in general are way too dependent on them and have developed a lurid, unhealthy fascination with pop psychology. I'll take Dr. Spock over Dr. Phil anyday 

And I'll never deny that there are bad therapists out there, that's why smart people use their brains to separate wheat from chaffe.   However root cause analysis, whether with therapists or without, is never useless.

[SANDRO43]

I've never been in analysis - and never will, for that matter - so my following question will probably sound uninformed, based as it is on what I may have heard, read, seen, speculated - and possibly understood.

Am I wrong in surmising that the major benefits to be reaped from counselling are basically a result of simply talking about/discussing one's problems ? In more physical situations, vomiting is usually an encouraging sign of a body's reaction to internal toxins .

In earlier times, speaking with a friend/parent/relative/confessor/bartender/whatever seemed to accomplish similarly beneficial results, i.e. make a person talk - and hopefully also think - about the possible causes of his/her problems, perhaps hear a useful suggestion from a more experienced listener, too, however without today's associated costs - a Jungian psychologist told me some years ago how she would have to see her patients for at least 5 years before seeing any significant improvement .

Could it be that most of these personal problems are mostly the consequence of the incapacity of contemporary people simply to communicate effectively, and thus having to hire 'experts' to do so in their stead ? If so, then individual self-centeredness and relational inadequacy would seem mostly to blame.

Come to think of it, some posts here at RWD would seem to confirm that hypothesis .

[Fashionista]

The psychologists end up just as frustrated, write a prescription and take a pill themselves to escape for a while.

   Another way would be booking an appointment with another psychologist, but using a lifestyle drug is undoubtly way superior  .  Alcohol will do too...

...approaches have to be independently validated. After all, I can measure my temperature, how do I measure my well-being?..

Enough about doctors, to my layperson eye I don't see a state of disease here.  The girl thinks her career is important, and she was deprived of one.  This could be is a big blow to someone's happiness. Isn't being ambitious considered a virtue in western society?  What's wrong with that? A perfectly normal reaction to abnormal circumstances.  She just needs communication and support from people she considers close, and saying that American culture is centered around communication and debate and therefore one needs to get therapy on every occasion is like saying that American culture is centered around fine cooking and therefore every time we get a chance we should go out and order Chinese.

[Mark Davis]

Wow, is this an interesting dialog.  On my second date with my wife I asked her what she thought was odd about American life from the thousands of movies she'd seen and what she'd heard.  I expected her to say that everything seemed to perfect or that we were too materialistic.  Nope.  She said, "It seems like your families move so far away from each other.  Here, we have four and five generations in the same town."  Interesting observation for someone who hadn't been here.  Second, she said, "And what is this about psychiatrists?  Don't you have mama's to cry on?"  I had to laugh.

From what I know of them, these are very strong and tough women.  I know that my wife missed her family in her second month here and she cried for the first time since she was 10 years old.  But that only lasted twenty minutes.  I also know she got a lot of pressure from her mama to find a job.  Her mama was convinced that she would need to support herself when I abandoned her (as if that would happen) becuase that's what all of the men in her life had done.

I don't know what to say about your wife's urgency to go home.  The guy who introduced me to the concept RW married a women who was a doctor in St. Petersburg.  It took her three years before she could practice here, but her practice was never the issue.  Like most FSU women I know, the thing they want most is to create a family - rich or poor- career or not. 

No one can say that our marriages have "Normal" first years.  There are way too many adjustments.  But what you are describing goes beyond adjustments.  I'm surprised by her comments that she doesn't want to go back without a big career here.  I'm not aware that any of them talk about their careers with each other in such a "keeping up with the Jone's" manner.  No one cares what anyone else does.  At least that's what I've come to know about Russians and Ukrainians.

Your situation is a mystery.  But one thing that isn't a mystery is you and your heart.  I'm going to really take a huge risk in recommending this to you, but this is where I would be coming from in your situation.  I'd talk to her about your heart.  Your desire to create family for richer or poorer, sucky job or cool job.  Your heart has always been to be there for her - and you've gone out of your way to help her pursue her career dreams outside of the family.  But if her desire for things outside of the family is stronger than her connection to the family, I'd help her find her way back to where her heart is - so she can be happy.  It's one thing to have a job to 'support the family' unit.  It is quite another to realize that your true heart lies in ambitions that are outside of the family.

At some point you just need to have some honest dialog with her so she has to evaluate what is going inside.  Express that you'd help her in any way you can.  But if she is honest and the career is a burning desire that is greater than the family, then you have your answer - as sad as it is.  Life is too short not to have a marriage relationship where both people are passionate about each other first and foremost above all other desires.

I know you will have to bring this to a head soon.  I hope she can be honest with herself about why she is feeling the way she is.  And, in the end, I hope her heart is with you.  If it isn't, I would hope you will respect yourself enough not to be willing to settle for second place in your wife's heart.  There are too many wonderful women out there who would love to make you first place in their heart in the way you put your wife as first place in your heart.  Your a good guy.  Perhaps she is just going through adjustments.  In the end, you deserve to have someone who will at least match your efforts in the relationship.

My very best wishes for your happiness and hers.

[Blues Fairy]

Am I wrong in surmising that the major benefits to be reaped from counselling are basically a result of simply talking about/discussing one's problems?

Could it be that most of these personal problems are mostly the consequence of the incapacity of contemporary people simply to communicate effectively, and thus having to hire 'experts' to do so in their stead ?

Partly not being able to communicate, and partly not understanding themselves well enough to figure out what drives their destructive desires.  The OP's wife came to the US to marry and settle down with a man, yet she still has "one foot in Russia" and basically suspends their future, setting impossible preconditions.  She's not behaving in a constructive way about her career or about her marriage (turned down jobs that could have been a foot in the door to a better position; takes out her frustration on her husband, etc.)  As a result, she inflicts upon herself lengthy episodes of depression.  It is apparent to me that making herself happy is not one of her basic skills. 

Good therapy provides better self-understanding, as well as methods and techniques to work out a better outlook upon life.  That is, of course, if the person is willing and determined enough to work on things.