Marriage Advice

[Grch]

Hi everyone,

I’ve read this forum for a while, but never posted. But I have a problem and would like some advice.

I married a RW in summer 2007 after 2 years of correspondences and multiple visits.

I can say that for the most part, our personal relationship has been, and still is to a certain extent, quite good. MOST of the time she is extremely affectionate and warm, and I feel like we have a very loving home. Certainly we have had our issues – mainly arguing about politics and the dog – but these can be more or less resolved / avoided. The problem is that every week or two, it seems, she slips into a period of deep despondency. Her depression is all about not being able to find a job; she is extremely career oriented and was a bit of a “rising star” in Russia with a bright future, but now that she is here she feels like she is nothing, and that whatever chance she might have to regain her career in Russia is slipping away.

She spends hours each day online looking for work – not just any work, mind you, but work in her chosen field; but the market is very dry right now and the competition is pretty thick. This summer she went through an intensive, post-graduate training program and she easily out performed her American classmates, but this has not translated into job opportunities. She is willing to take more classes, and even “redo” her education (she is pretty young and has no children), and I am willing to support her emotionally and financially throughout the process. I have a very good job and don’t need her to work, but I want her to have a career because I know that makes her happy. But the periods of despondency she goes through time to time really scare me.

When she gets bad news (like a job rejection), or even if several days pass without a new job opening that she is interested in, she sinks into a depression where she cries for hours and can barely can speak to me for days. She feels that there is no possibility of finding a job here, that she gave up a bright career in Russia and may not be able to get it back, and that as a result her life is ruined. I try to be as supportive as I can, and to give her space when she needs it, but during these times she does take the brunt of her unhappiness out on me, and when she is feeling this way, life in the house is pretty brutal. She doesn’t believe in any type of therapy or counseling, so I have stopped asking.

She has been talking more and more about going back to Russia if she can find a job there (I know she has been looking). She feels that her window of opportunity for salvaging her old career is dwindling, and feels more and more panicked about the future. I argued with her on this at first, but over the months I have resigned myself to the possibility that she really may go. I have also told her repeatedly that I wish she would stay, that I want her to stay, and that she really can have a bright career if she gives herself time, because she is a very intelligent and hard-working person. I also have told her that IF she needs to go back to Russia in order to be happy, I will do what I can for her to help jump start her career (providing bribe $, primarily).

I wish that she would not make finding a job right now the end-all and be-all of her happiness, and that she could find something else to succeed at that could add some meaning to her life; but it seems like progressing towards her career is the only thing she will consider.

I have no idea right now what the future holds. In the short term she plans to take some foreign language classes (other than English) to improve her marketability and she may enroll in an advanced degree program in the Fall. However, she argues (warns?) that this program will only help her find work in Russia (not in the US), and if she completes it there is a 99% chance that she will return to Russia. I am willing to support this largely because it might buy some time. Our original plan was for her to enroll in a different advanced educational program that would lead to a career here, but she is pessimistic about getting accepted (she didn’t do well enough on the entrance exams the first time she took them) nor finding a good job even after completion.

In the end, I am not sure exactly what advice I am seeking. I love my wife and want her to stay and build a career here, and I know that is possible if she gives herself time and find someways to build her esteem/keep her sanity until her career starts rolling. Ultimately, however, I just want her to be happy. I chose someone whose self-esteem is wrapped entirely in having a successful career, but she is convinced that is now impossible in the US. I married a career woman, but just never imagined the relationship might fail because she actually thinks that career opportunities for her are better in Russia than they are here. I am at a loss.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Thanks.

     

[GoodOlBoy]

Hello GRCH, If I am not being to personal, what was her "chosen" field in Russia? Doctor, Lawyer?

[BC]

It's difficult for ANYONE to basically start all over with a career.  Just getting a foot in the door at entry level is a step forward.  Once potential is realized things usually speed up from there.

There also may be possibilities of self employment..  why work for someone else when you can work for yourself?

A 'hint' as to her profession might provoke other directions...

[Grch]

Sorry for my intentional vagueness...

She was a lawyer in Russia and hoped to be able to continue her career here. Her English is good, but she needs more time for it to be "excellent" and this should allow her to be more competitive...

[pitbull]

Hi Grch,

If she wants to be a lawyer here in the US, she has to go to Law School and get American Law Degree. There is no other way or a shortcut. Period. Short intensive training programs will not help. Is she applying for Lawyer positions or for Paralegal/Legal secretary?

I understand she took LSAT already but didn't do well enough for the school she chose? She will need very good LSAT preparation training to get into law school, then 2 years of school, and she most probably find a job in the US.

Also, "good" English is bad. Her English MUST be impeccable.

[GoodOlBoy]

Hi GRCH, let me throw this out to you. It's just my observations. That's all. I live in a VERY large Russian community (Sunny Isles Beach, FL). There are MANY Russian and Ukrainian doctor's and lawyers her. For the most part, they have all had to settle for "less" when they came here. My wife's best friend, was not only a doctor, she taught in the medical college in Sevastopol. She is a VERY bright lady. She has been in the USA 5 years. She has been attending school (U.Miami) the last couple of years, just trying to get her RN license to be a NURSE. Just my opinion, but it is a very hard adjustment for professional Russian women to come here. They have to take "demeaning" jobs. There is NO way you can be a doctor or lawyer in Russia/Ukraine and expect to get off the plane and be one here. It is simply impossible. I had to explain all of this to my wife, BEFORE she left Siberia. She is a professional also, but she has learned to adapt and find another field of interest that she seems to like. But it is a difficult adjustment for these women.

[Blues Fairy]

I would look more deeply into why her self-esteem is so entirely rooted in her career.  Bouts of depression are a clear sign that there actually is a problem.   Perfectionist, only child, demanding parents?  Maybe some unobtrusive therapy might help if you can persuade her.   

[Grch]

Thanks everyone.

My wife completed her paralegal certificate this summer from a good school (we live in DC), and she is perfectly willing to work as a paralegal for a while, but the opportunities for entry level work just don't seem to be there. Actually, a few months, I arranged through my connections for her to get a paralegal position in a small firm, but she didn't take it because it wasn't prestiguous enough (my words, not hers). We both were hoping that there would be some opportunities for Russian lawyers in this area, and it turns about that there were maybe 5 or so years ago, but not anymore. The plan was eventually for her to try to get a JD, and there are plenty of good schools in the area, but now shes feels like it is too big a risk (by the time she is able to get into school and graduate, her Russian diploma will have "lost its value"). So now she's thinking LLM, but the job prospects in the US for foreign educated lawyers with LLMs is pretty small...

The problem is she has one foot in Russia in the other here, and she wants to see which will give her the best opportunity, but by straddling the fence I think she is not making as much progress towards achieving her goal...

[Jack]

Grch, were you able to establish any type of support network?  Do you know several other married AM/RW who live close to you?   

If you have a support system in your area, if she knows lot's of other Russian/Ukraine ladies who live in the area and she has these moods, might be a problem.

If you do not have this support network in place first I'll say shame on you second I'll say get started on creating one. 


Grch it's tuff times for a lot of people today, and will be for sometime. I think she will need to be open into going into other fields.

I take it that you live in town, that your not traveling much during the week. As such it's pretty important now, or while these low's in her mood continue, to be able to spend a lot of time with her. Surprise her by coming home and taking her to the movies. Not just on a Friday or Saturday, but also on a Tuesday, on a Wednesday.

Think about getting her into something she can do on e-bay, from the house. Once she get's that first $100 it may really inspire her. Their are many things she can acquire from home that she can sell on e-bay and make a tidy profit.

It's not good if she is talking about going back home. However, now may not be such a bad time for her to take a trip back home. Things not all so bright in Russia, in Ukraine today. I expect she will have much the same problems at home, probably worse. Once she see's how her friends are getting along she may begin to count her blessing's and realize what she does have at home.

[Grch]

I have a sense about why her self-esteem is so tightly rooted to a career... her mother travelled from one side of Russia to the another to be with her father and she abandoned her career to do so; but then came the economic crisises, and eventually divorce. I think my wife was raised by a perfectionistic mother for whom nothing other than perfection was accepable so that her daughter would be able to survive without having to depend on anyone else...

The current economic situation is the US (and across the globe) is terrifying to her and she is convinced that it will be 1998 Russia all over again...

[GoodOlBoy]

Jack, I don't want to step on any toes here, but I have to tell the poster about one experience that I am aware of personally. Husband and wife had similar problem described here. Wife went home to Russia and DIDN'T come back. Apparently she was able to get her old job back. I don't know the specific details, I just know for a fact it happened.

[GoodOlBoy]

GRCH, I have one more personal question. I don't mean to be nosey. Did your wife sell her flat in Russia or does she still have it?

[Grch]

Grch, were you able to establish any type of support network?  Do you know several other married AM/RW who live close to you?   

She knows a handful of Russian / Eastern European women in the area, but really doesn't have much interest in them because they don't share her professional interests and won't help her in her career here. She has had almost no interest in maintaining contact with her friends in Russia. Then there's the women's forums online...

Shortly after she first arrived I tried to introduce her to an extended circle of friends who are primarily lawyers (some of whom spreak Russian) and who I thought would be able to help her build with a "professional network" but she showed absolutely no interest. I am trying to arrange for an opportunity to do some volunteer legal work at a legal foundation created by some other friends, but don't know if it will pan out...

I asked whether she wants to go back to Russia for a week or two just so she can surround herself with things familiar to her, so she can buy some "normal" clothes, etc., but she says she doesn't want to go back to Russia as a "loser" - either she has to have success here (school or job) or she has to have success waiting for her.

I do realize that if she goes to Russia there is a risk she might not come back...

[Grch]

GRCH, I have one more personal question. I don't mean to be nosey. Did your wife sell her flat in Russia or does she still have it?

She lived with her mom, who lived in far Western Russia, so didn't have her own place. My wife probably would try to go to Moscow and make it there...

[Jack]

GoodOlBoy, of course the experience you have written about is a possability. It sounds to me that's it's a great possability now as she has been talking about  returning to Russia.

And we will all agree that this is probably not good thinking on her part for the marriage to prosper. However, today in Russia, it ain't pretty.  I suspect it will be much worse in Russia today then when she left.   So although I think her going back to Russia during these low mood swings is not generally a good idea, for the very reason you have stated, she might not come back, she's already stated this. We already have to know this is a possability.  

It's not good.  But, if she is going to go back home for a visit, I think today would be the best time for Grch's sake.  If things are wonderful in Russia, plenty of jobs for people, no problem with the ruble, with credit, this is not the time to have her going back home, probably a great chance of her not returning.  I only say that if she is already talking this way, talking about returning home, it's probably not good for the marriage. So, do we take the chance of sending her when things are bad?

In this case who knows.  But if she is set on returning home for a visit, if this is for certain, buy her plane ticket this week.

[GoodOlBoy]

Bouts of depression are a clear sign that there actually is a problem.   Perfectionist, only child, demanding parents?  Maybe some unobtrusive therapy might help if you can persuade her.

GRCH,  you have a very DELICATE situation here. I think you should follow BLUES FAIRY advice and try to persuade your wife, that it would help your marriage to get some therapy. Communication is important and you are obviously both well educated people (this is definitely a plus).
I don't believe that you would have come here today, unless you thought your marriage was in trouble. I am sure if you check back in the next day or so, many other members will sign in and see your post. Maybe among them, you will find a better answer than the one being offered here.
From my personal observations, Russian women tend to reject any kind of psychology/psychologist. They view it as a weakness in character and pretty much dismiss the whole concept.

[GoodOlBoy]

BTW, make sure the therapist is Russian or knows Russian very well. Otherwise your wife cannot properly communicate her thoughts or feelings. Trust me, this is an important point.
Please let me say one other thing, as long as your wife is here in America, it is NEVER to late to work things out. Once she gets on that plane and leaves, it's to late. I guess what I am trying to tell you is fight for your marriage. Russian women a VERY special ladies and worth fighting for. DON'T GIVE UP!

[kievstar]

Her career sounds like it is very important to her.  Would you be willing to move to Moscow for her?  Not sure what you do for career but maybe an option.

Another thought is what is her law speciality in?  She maybe able to work for one of the Russian companies in the USA plus continue her education.  Grades for a lawyer are so so as communication skills more important.  There are several steel and oil / gas companies in the USA.  Not sure where you live but if you live near Houston she will have numerous offers.

[OlgaH]

... either she has to have success here (school or job)...

What about a school. Has she entered any lawyer school?

I can understand her longing or hunger for self-actualization, but I'm really confused why does she reject the help in such case?

[OlgaH]

Grch,

How old is your wife?

[AnastassiaAsh]

Wow, I am not even sure she loves/loved you! Why did she come here? To be your wife or find a job? What a spoilt little child! Yeah, why did she reject all your help, connections and suggestions? So not good. Was that position for like $10 an hour or is she trying to match your salary? Ridiculous and unrealistic expectations.

If she loved you she wouldn't be talking about going back to Russia even to the position of CEO! What in the world?

I asked whether she wants to go back to Russia for a week or two just so she can surround herself with things familiar to her, so she can buy some "normal" clothes, etc., but she says she doesn't want to go back to Russia as a "loser" - either she has to have success here (school or job) or she has to have success waiting for her.

What a twisted thinking I should say.

The most important of course is the relationship between you and her, and that's where she is failing and will be a failure when and if she returns back. Do you think anybody will care if she could find a job here or not? Of course not, they will talk about her man, you, and how IT all failed! All these problems are only a facade that is hiding a real problem, and I bet she knows that but as always will never ever admit it even to herself. Dignity and stubbornness are all in wrong places.

So sorry about this, Grch!

[BC]

I married a RW in summer 2007 after 2 years of correspondences and multiple visits.

My read is smack dab in the middle of that extremely tough adjustment period.. maybe a packed bags test in the making.

Grch, hang in there.. give her all the love and support you can muster. Keep your cool and stay calm.  With a bit of patience there is a good chance this will pass.  Keeping busy with studies is a good idea.

She came from a place where many folks depended on her for her skills.. you now have to make up for and find ways to make her feel worthy and build back her self esteem.

I really like a lot of what Jack said in his first post.

[OlgaH]

My wife completed her paralegal certificate this summer from a good school (we live in DC), and she is perfectly willing to work as a paralegal for a while, but the opportunities for entry level work just don't seem to be there.

The plan was eventually for her to try to get a JD, and there are plenty of good schools in the area, but now shes feels like it is too big a risk (by the time she is able to get into school and graduate, her Russian diploma will have "lost its value").

The problem is she has one foot in Russia in the other here, and she wants to see which will give her the best opportunity, but by straddling the fence I think she is not making as much progress towards achieving her goal...

Sorry, I missed the post...

Grch, I'm not sure what exactly her goal is... but having Russian diploma in law and at the same time having US diploma or being certified in US law she has all chances to get pretty good job in Russia and even in Moscow... may be because of it she already  "has one foot in Russia" and worries that her "Russian diploma will have "lost its value"... If she will get some experience working as paralegal in US, her experience  will be another "plus" to her "service record" when she will return Russia... Probably she knows what she is doing to achieve her goal... 

she says she doesn't want to go back to Russia as a "loser" - either she has to have success here (school or job) or she has to have success waiting for her.
 

If it is so as I just can guess... I can tell she is a very smart girl  and she knows where "success is waiting for her" and she will return as a winner...

My wife probably would try to go to Moscow and make it there...

So, she mentioned Moscow... or is it your guess?

[Chicagoguy]

Right now we have a surplus of American lawyers and it will probably be getting worse.
 
As for suggestions - an Immigration lawyer I know uses a former Russian lawyer for translation and ideas. Also, some of the really big American law firms have offices in Russia and there might be an opportunity there.

But maybe you guys need some outside counseling ?

[FredC]

Have you thought about suggesting that she start a business helping people with their visa applications? With her law background and her language skills it makes sense to me. Also having been through the process herself could be a real plus. Add to that that she would not be working for anyone else.

Just a thought.....Fred