Some thoughts and discussion points

[Faux Pas]

I feel sorry for the men who seem to think that all a woman could possibly be looking for is money. It is sad that men like BC seem to think that a man is only worthy of love based on his job. 

Ah I see, thanks for the clarification. Obviously I wasn't following the thread as well as I thought. 

[Diplomacy]

Doll:

First off I think I worded it in too many thoughts and jumped around in the Post.  My point is that the GCG would do this type of action, once she either ran a guy dry, or tired him out.  Loving without being loved in return is a dangerous poison to me.  I did not address the "they" asked by you and Sorry on both points.

Please realize and appreciate there are victims on both sides of this endeavor.  I have already been involved with one FSUW that is a victim and not playing one.  I side on the side of right and not nationality or gender.

As for bringing over someone and expecting them to appreciate me forever.  Take out the reason for appreciation being bringing her over and yes I expect my wife to appreciate me forever.  

I expect to act and treat her in a manner that would make her feel appreciated.  I know she acts and treats me in a manner that makes me feel appreciated.  I asked what makes her feel appreciated and told her she makes me feel appreciated.  How am I suppose to know how someone feels appreciated without asking?  It is a personal thing, are all the men on the forum asking this?  I do not know and if even one has not and does, then it is a post worth discussing.

I am one of the good men Doll, I assure you.  I do not treat nor allow myself or others to be treated badly.  I think that is a strong man, you can disagree or define what is strong in your eyes.

See every WM or FSU that marries and emotionally or physically abuses the other. Makes this situation just that much harder to trust and makes the risk that much greater.

Every issue that could arise that can be solved by the members, lowers the risk for those going through this.

I think that the purpose of the board is to bring the good FSUW and WM together and give them the best chance possible of having the life that the OMG and their wives had.

If I do not know something I get advice from people that have what I want.  Then take that advice and adapt it to who I am and what I am capable of.

I have been where many on the boards have not Doll.  Care to tell them about the conditions the orphans, women in center, elderly, and invalid survive in?  Think is is the same FSU they are visiting?  Think there is any merit to seeing the worse in a place to understand what a society is capable of?  Any honor in doing something about it?  How many FSUW and WM marriages are involved in helping those that still endure in the groups I mentioned?  What were my chances in finding a women already doing just that in Ukraine?  They are to busy doing and not many going to the agency to chat and mail.  Fair statements?


Scott
I also believe what you said is the exact situation a lot of the members deal with.  I am still at 34 younger and at the building more together stage of life.  

There are plenty of cases already out there of this going badly.  If I missed post where the matter is discussed I apologize.  It is the fact that the RW very well believe they are not getting normal I am trying to get to also.  They have a bad reference to normal, so what is above normal is not attainable except by very few Americans.  

The WM is providing above normal and RW feels she is not getting above normal.  It is not bad people it is bad expectations.

Blues Fairy:

Thank you! That was one answer I hoped to get out of the post.  The exact scenario my friends had play out.  He fully went through finances, what cost what and how much is left over.  They sit down and do budget together.  I have also went through it with my fiance.  But some keep finances from the RW, just not sure that is best idea sometimes.

Docetea

Yes, I see where your wife is going with it and how does one go about determining if that is what you are dealing with?  Any insight there from her?  

Gator

Yes, exactly on all points.  I am ambitious and not happy with the status Quo, but I do something about it to change it.  I also look at effort versus reward and determine if it is worth it.  I got an emotional dollar budget too.  It is the woman I describe that I am trying to discuss, and did not mean for it to seem as a generalization.  I am trying to discuss that type of person in RW.  I do not think DOLL is one of them, I think she likes to play devil's advocate.  She will jump to the RW defense, but it is perspective and her view on the situation.

This whole USA is the land of opportunity, we all want more.  That is healthy, to expect more and doing nothing is not.  I am saying that is where I think it is tough to discuss and set proper expectations.  It is also false beliefs that could cause a good RW and WM to not feel appreciated.  If you do not feel you have what is normal or above normal, then you did not get the reward for the risk right?

Rest of the boards

I think I am a victim of too much chatting with language barrier.  I clearly need to spend more time on my own English skills now.

[Diplomacy]

Misha Amen!

I am trying to get to that exact point.  I so thought it was a softball, but clearly we need some discussion.  A woman needs emotional support, to feel needed, to feel attractive, and feel appreciated.  We are not and do not think like women.  We need and want different things that the other has.  That is the way we were made, to complete the other person.

You can have all of the money in the world, and a wife that just wants that I guess.  It just is not the majority of the men here.  I think we got some men that have money and we could mentor in this department.

So, should we make a another post on this exact subject or discuss further in this one? It has been stated and stated that many of the men are not very savvy in relationships.  Could we not discuss how to do those things and discuss them from distance?  Use the time to build a good relationship skills, instead of a day on the calender when you think she will be here?

[Doll]

I expect to act and treat her in a manner that would make her feel appreciated.  I know she acts and treats me in a manner that makes me feel appreciated.  I asked what makes her feel appreciated and told her she makes me feel appreciated.

I am really starting doubting in my comprehension of English  
What are we talking of? What is the essential difference between AW and RW?
Appreciation for WHAT?

[Doll]

Doll:

First off I think I worded it in too many thoughts and jumped around in the Post.

I only got one (sorry)- you would like RW to always and endlessly appreaciate what you've spent getting her over.
One more time- it is NOT going to happen. Period.

[Diplomacy]

Doll:

Maybe mine are even worse than I thought now, and I am need of serious help.  

I think it is also personal a little.  Let me give you my example of what I wish to be appreciated for.

Appreciated for my character, how I treat others, knowing what makes her feel special, going out of my way to make her feel special as much as possible and in as many different ways as possible, appreciated for how hard I work and still make time to make life better for others.

I think when you are appreciated for what you are and when you appreciate what she is, it builds love when you find that person.  Of course it may be my French DNA lol.

[pitbull]

Doll:

Maybe mine are even worse than I thought now, and I am need of serious help.  

I think it is also personal a little.  Let me give you my example of what I wish to be appreciated for.

Appreciated for my character, how I treat others, knowing what makes her feel special, going out of my way to make her feel special as much as possible and in as many different ways as possible, appreciated for how hard I work and still make time to make life better for others.

I think when you are appreciated for what you are and when you appreciate what she is, it builds love when you find that person.  Of course it may be my French DNA lol.

Diplomacy,
I have to join Doll here: I do not really understand what you are trying to say, other than it's a painful matter for you.
All the things you want to be appreciated for that you stated above are great and in normal marriage people appreciate each other for those wonderful personality traits. If your woman doesn't appreciate thos in you - there is a problem.

I've noticed that people in this thread tend to divide men in two groups: those who have a nice character, appreciate their wives and make them feel special, but at the same time make less than average money. And those "men with money" who for some reason have to be bad and have "a couple other women on the side".
I believe this division is just childish. Character traits don't correlate with how much money a man makes. And if there is a correlation, I believe successful well educated men will rather be hardworking, intelligent, understand other cultures, well-traveled and well-read.
I don't see why a woman should compromise why way or another (we are not talking about multi-millionaires here, but educated professional men able to support their family).

Suggesting the "two groups of men" dichotomy is the same as saying that all women are either attractive b..tches who are after your money only, or ugly fat cows with angelic character who would appreciate your wonderful character even if you are impecunious.
I bet you guys all go to FSU to get an attractive wife with a good character .

Women want to find the best for themselves as well. Neither should compromise unless absolutely necessary.

[Diplomacy]

Doll:

You do not understand. I do not expect her to appreciate me for any amount of time for taking from their and bringing her here.  She is doing quite well on her own, I am not saving her from anything but not having a man that loves her.  She is saving me from not having a woman that loves me.  That seems like a tie 1-1

I will tell you that I appreciate her leaving her family and trusting me enough to do this.  I set proper expectations and made sure my friend explained as much about life with me as possible in Russian before I even went.  I find trust is a little hard to come  by in FSU, desperation leads to motivation but she is not desperate.

[Doll]

Doll:

You do not understand. I do not expect her to appreciate me for any amount of time for taking from their and bringing her here.  She is doing quite well on her own, I am not saving her from anything but not having a man that loves her.  She is saving me from not having a woman that loves me.  That seems like a tie 1-1

I will tell you that I appreciate her leaving her family and trusting me enough to do this.  I set proper expectations and made sure my friend explained as much about life with me as possible in Russian before I even went.  I find trust is a little hard to come  by in FSU, desperation leads to motivation but she is not desperate.

You're right- I don't understand. I do not understand what your first post is about or what the purpose of it is. Do me a favor- explain ( and read your first post over before )

[Doll]

Appreciated for my character, how I treat others, knowing what makes her feel special, going out of my way to make her feel special as much as possible and in as many different ways as possible, appreciated for how hard I work and still make time to make life better for others.

Wait a minute! You were talking of "them" who were brought over by the men who had burnt tons of money, of "them" who don't seem to understand what you did or do - and all this about RW vs AW. Sorry but this is how your first post sounds or it makes no sense at all then.
You're wasting your anger.

[Doll]

Appreciated for my character, how I treat others, knowing what makes her feel special, going out of my way to make her feel special as much as possible and in as many different ways as possible, appreciated for how hard I work and still make time to make life better for others.

I think when you are appreciated for what you are and when you appreciate what she is, it builds love when you find that person.

(Not sure Diplomacy will understand me so kinda talking to myself))
Listen, most of people work hard and make somebody's lives better, they do it because they think it is right, appreciation by somebody else is good but not so neccessary. I take care of the house and the kid (also work) because I feel like doing it and it is fair, my husband makes money to support the family because he thinks it is right. And we both do want more and better. So what?Guess it makes us BOTH GCG 
Just talking to myself 

[Misha]

I believe this division is just childish. Character traits don't correlate with how much money a man makes. And if there is a correlation, I believe successful well educated men will rather be hardworking, intelligent, understand other cultures, well-traveled and well-read.

Well, I find the other narrative tiring as well: women are only interested in money and one must make [fill in the blank] dollars to successfully marry a RW.

As for the rest of your statement, it depends how you define "successful" and your criteria for measuring success. Success, for me, is more than money. I have met a number of very well off [i.e. earned a lot of money] who were boorish, close-minded, traveled little, trained but not necessarily educated.

I don't see why a woman should compromise why way or another (we are not talking about multi-millionaires here, but educated professional men able to support their family).

Depends how you define "support." What is support to one woman will be living in poverty to another.

Suggesting the "two groups of men" dichotomy is the same as saying that all women are either attractive b..tches who are after your money only, or ugly fat cows with angelic character who would appreciate your wonderful character even if you are impecunious. I bet you guys all go to FSU to get an attractive wife with a good character .

Well, again, my point is that you seek to attract the best woman you can. The question is what you will use to attract a woman. Will it be your personality, or will it be a vacation package to a vacation resort. There are attractive women obsessed with money and status, and attractive women who measure a man by criteria other than his wallet. I chose to look for the second type.

Women want to find the best for themselves as well. Neither should compromise unless absolutely necessary.

True, but it depends on what is important to a woman. My wife was not willing to compromise on intelligence, but ranked wealth lower in her priorities.

[Doll]

Misha by now everybody understands your financial situation  :usdeyes:
Come on kids, I hope nobody really opposes love to money.

[Misha]

Misha by now everybody understands your financial situation  :usdeyes:
Come on kids, I hope nobody really opposes love to money.

Well, you would not have been interested in me, but I don't consider that much of a loss LOL  Then again, my wife doesn't have to threaten DV charges to keep me in line 

[Doll]

Well, you would not have been interested in me, but I don't consider that much of a loss LOL  Then again, my wife doesn't have to threaten DV charges to keep me in line 

]
I would give you F for this argument.
Не зарекайся ни от чего.

[Diplomacy]

I think we got an answer doll.  I know you are trying to understand what I am saying and it is not language barrier either.  I am having a hard time explaining things in a manner that can be understood.  My point was to have as many points as I could in one post this week, and many saw post as just one point.  I did not really say why I was saying what I said and ask for opinion or insight.  I did state when it was just my thought.  



Paragraph below is a thought.  Warning to others about false sense of security with cafe and not spending money as a litmus test.  Please differentiate between gold digger and GCG.  Their motivation is GC, they will stop at nothing to get it.  

I just think that there is enough information about what a WM would be watching for a GCG could act the part real easy.  She could be real sincere towards you as a means to a green card too.  Motivation and access to the internet is a dangerous combination.  This makes for an educated criminal, and yes IMO what they do is criminal.  Look at the emotional and physical toll one exacts on the man going through this.  Much worse than getting robbed at gun point, or coming home to find everything is stolen IMO.

Here Plea to organize and profile GCG actions towards DV charges.  When I see to a "t" agreed to from multiple members.  We must try to protect innocent men.  There are sites dedicated to protecting innocent FSU women, I do not see much in the way of it for WM.

I was happy to see the definitive trend and events were close in dv.  They should be pinned IMO.

Thought below
Kind of interesting that one member finds Maxx's post on another site about the matter.  Maxx I am glad you now realize that you were committed to be a good husband, there is nothing you can do to make someone being committed to being a good wife.  It is a 2 way street, sure you can make the street longer on your side by trying and trying.  I hope life gets to a point you can find the one committed to being your wife.

Just looking for conversation about this.  I want to make sure I had done anything and everything to explain differences to my Fiance.  It should be a universal issue for RWD.

The one point that I would like to see opinion on or advice, is how one explains and changes views of what one has earned in society.  I do not know any way to put it correctly. Socialism by definition is what is yours is mine.  Yes, in perfect form Socialism is great, but human nature does not allow for such a world IMO.  If there is nothing to gain, then why do more?  If there is not more money then why dream and innovate?  I guess one could do it for love of Country and the world, but I think that limits the amount of people who would do it IMO.
 
This type of woman member should look for IMO.  This is a motivated woman, committed to making it in America

You have one side of the coin like Jack told me about a doctor who was only qualified to do massage therapy.  Did that, accepted it and worked toward becoming qualified for better employment.

I do not ever want to meet the member looking to have this in their life

The other side where it will never be enough. 

Some of my thoughts on how one could feel the way they do when they arrive here.

IMO that would be some of the reason for why some "feel"  they are entitled to more and not appreciative of what they get too.  Sure, we know that the government was saying one thing and doing another in the FSU.  The new money is a trend where lavish outward display of money is happening.

Sure many thought and probably knew there was a class living different.  The people with more did most of the consumption behind closed doors. 


Examples I have found of nothing to use as reference point in FSU.  Hard to explain something with out a reference point.

It is hard to explain something you can not reference easy in another culture.  Take our Suburbs for example.  Is that best explained as living on the outskirts of the city in FSU?  I mean I see city and I see village there.  Hard concept to explain IMO.  I have the luxury of her friend knowing both and explaining it to her in Native tongue and reference.  If you do not have that luxury it is hard to set expectations IMO.

This is not a GCG girl, this is a woman has believed the movies and Land of Honey.  She honestly believes she has been deceived an or was suppose to get more than she did as far as "quality of Assets"  She had no intention of doing this for GC, she just simply does not understand what average is and what above average is in our Country.

Is some of the problems arising from the man not understanding the culture and the woman taking their culture and applying theirs to ours.  America is just a wealthier country in their eyes and therefore they deserve their part of the wealth by living here?

I am sure they feel that is the way it is suppose to be.  So are we treating a symptom and not the problem?  When you factor in language barrier it makes it even harder to explain in a manner one could accepting of.

Neither appreciates or understands the other here, you got nothing if you do not appreciate or understand each other.  Still good people, just real bad communication and expectations .

The man just tries to give more and burns through cash and does not get appreciation for what he did to get the gift.  She may not even understand the real effort it took and how special it really was.

[Doll]

You're funny- I underdstood you 3 pages ago 
Thank you anyway

[Diplomacy]

When money is your only Love, yes it is a problem.  You will never have enough, it becomes a plague.  It is called being a slave to money IMO not love.  Money should be used to fuel your love.

With Лох thrown into the mix, I would add he is a fool in her mind and not really her husband.  Marriage certificate is just ink on paper.  Wait that sounds like money too.

[Diplomacy]

Bah you drew me off sides, but others still did not get it.  So we getting any FSUW insight or just here for muse?

[Doll]

When money is your only Love, yes it is a problem.  You will never have enough, it becomes a plague.  It is called being a slave to money IMO not love.  Money should be used to fuel your love.

[William3rd]

Well, you would not have been interested in me, but I don't consider that much of a loss LOL  Then again, my wife doesn't have to threaten DV charges to keep me in line 

Extremely good point and the right answer to a GCH

[BC]

I feel sorry for the men who seem to think that all a woman could possibly be looking for is money. It is sad that men like BC seem to think that a man is only worthy of love based on his job. 

Misha,

My original post below:

Misha,

Good points.  Fact is, if I sat on the steps of a Moscow subway with a sign saying I was the most exceptionally kind, sincere, caring, considerate, loving husband that was also smart and witty - with a hat in front of me filled with token change I'm willing to bet I'd get nowhere fast.. but with enough persistence might get a long way in the right direction.

I highlighted one word that might make my intent more clear.

I don't think this is a black/white deal of have's and have nots.  There's a shoe out there that fits most feet but few are taking time to ensure a proper fit, stepping into shoes that are too large and declaring comfort.

[Doll]

GCH

what is this?

[Kuna]

what is this?

A quote???

[I/O]

A quote???