POLL....Detroit Automakers Bailout

[GoodOlBoy]

Thank you in advance for your participation. Rick

[kievstar]

I worked in the auto industry and have many family members there.  No bail out should be given.  They knew back in 1980's what they had to do to compete and they ignored the customer and longterm vision.  Many people got very rich at Ford and General Motors over the years even hourly workers making 120K plus a year and drinking on the job.  Will be a blow to the economy but other companies will come in and setup manufacturing in the south like Toyota and Honda.  But will Obama turn his back on the promises he gave to people in Ohio, Michigan, and Indiana to bail them out.  These 3 states are most impacted by General Motors. 

In many markets General Motors competes with itself.  Why have Chevy, GMC, Cadillac, Pontiac??? Slim down and become efficient.  Consolidate engineering and standardize parts.  Let Toyota spend all the money to invent new technology why does GM and Ford have to do it. Toyota is very smart by piggy backing off others new technology.  Old technology does not break and you have a higher quality car.

[BC]

Government should stay out of business and business should stay out of Government.

-but that will never happen.

[Gator]

Some bailout is inevitable.  I assure you that even if GM enters bankruptcy, there will be a long line at the federal teat (e. g., preservation of pensions).

The repercussions of bankruptcy will be severe and will worsen the current economic crisis.  Some question whether anyone will buy a car from a bankrupt company. 

GM can avoid bankruptcy only if the government prints more money and gives it to them, and that would happen only if the government gets closely involved in GM business decisions.  GM could not make the correct decisions in the past; how will Big Government make them better? 

Is it fair for taxpayers, many of whom do not have major benefits, to use their precious tax money to subsidize the salaries and healthcare benefits of an already overpaid lot?

It is time to pay the piper.  All of will suffer from this colonic flushing.  Yet we will emerge leaner and stronger, and so will GM, albeit in a smaller version.

How does this relate to RW?

[BC]

Impose a 20% sales tax on imported goods and problems with the US auto industry will go away.

That's what EU does...

[kryten41]

They knew back in 1980's what they had to do to compete and they ignored the customer and longterm vision. 

Actually, they are in trouble because they gave the customer what the customer wanted--big powerful vehicles. 

In the Texas panhandle, the standard vehicle for a man is a big pickup truck with a V8 engine, even if he never hauls anything, and just drives it to and from work.  Standard vehicle for a woman is an SUV. In both cases, the more power the better.  Sales of these vehicles hit a brick wall when the price of gas suddenly shot through the roof. 

The big three were building smaller vehicles in the 70's and 80's as a result of the "energy crisis", but fuel became available and affordable again, and the American people returned to their desire for bigger, more powerful vehicles.  The auto manufacturers just gave the people what they wanted. 

[kievstar]

They focused on the USA customer.  They needed to focus on the World customer.  Even with gas low they were not making money in USA market this decade.  Much of their reported profits this decade were based on playing with the actuarial assumptions around pension - which were legal.   GM USA operations were never profitable.  GMAC was profitable. 

Must of the auto suppliers enjoy losing business with GM and Ford as the contracts they have with foreign makers actually allow them to make money. 

[Gator]

A 14-3 vote against a bailout!!!

However, Obama is the new President and I doubt that he and the Democratic Congress will turn their backs to those who helped him/them get elected. 

Interetsing test for Obama.  Does he do what he promised to get elected?  Or does he do what is important for the future of America even if it causes some pain today?

Yes, Obama will not be President for another two months.  But he certainly is playing a strong role today.

[jj]

I have to say I am against bail out.  I have had my own business for years, and even another little one on the side, and they will never give me anything. I have to borrow money from the bank at times when things slow down and pay it back when things pick up.   If GM discontinued the oldsmobile manufacture, they could have discontinued other models when the writing was on the wall.   I think our government should forget about spending billions on finding life on Mars and put our government engineers to work on an engine that gets 100 miles per gallon and make it available to any manufacturer to  produce and put it in whatever body style they think the consumer will find attractive.  Now thats tax payers money at work. 

[Faux Pas]

I too am against the bailout. Our free market system is predicated on businesses or industries ability to succeed or fail. The problem is the repercussions of failure for the big three reach much farther into our lives than just the 200-300K jobs they provide. They are crippled from the international credit crunch. Yes much of it is due to the management of the company as well as the labor. If our economy rebounds so will the auto industry. If we let it fail what will take its place? A new US auto industry? In these times I don't see that happening.

[mark2353]

Why should the tax payer incur the cost of bad management and lack of leadership. They have not listen to the market in 20 yrs. GM/Ford response to high energy cost was gas coupons! All they cared about was cleaning the inventory that was it. When ever they produced a small car it has been a insult to the customer (unreliable and priced w/imports). When the customer has to choose between the american and import. there is no choice. Then they market the idea that everyone needs a bus i.e. suburban. That went fine until the oil prices went through the roof and then the idiot customer is having to choose between feeding the family or going to work in this bus!
GM / Firestone these fine companies are also responsible for the lack of mass transportation system in the Los Angeles, they destroy it for their profit. They made fine small cars in europe, do they make any attempts to bring the technology here? No! Have the tax payer pay for retool for "new technology". BS at the end of the day they will bring the european cars they already have and give themselves another fat raise!
I am sorry to say they will get the money, the same way the banks did they will layoff a ton of innocent workers and of course the goverment will respond with big loans! The 3 fat man will once again fly their jets! 

[2tallbill]

The Auto makers have put themselves into this situation. It would be stupid to bail them out
unless they had their labor, medical and retirement costs under control. Besides they should
first go to the Union retirement funds. If the employees wont loan the big three the money then
why the hell should I?

"The typical UAW worker at the Big Three earned between $71 and $76 an hour in 2006.
This amount is triple the earnings of the typical worker in the private sector and
$25 to $30 an hour more than American workers at Japanese auto plants. The average
unionized worker at the Big Three earns over $130,000 a year in wages and benefits."_*1

The UAW's lavish health benefits added $1,200 to the cost of each vehicle produced in the United States.
The Japanese automakers, by contrast, provide standard health benefits to their American employees. Consequently, health care for active workers cost Toyota $215 per vehicle in 2006.

If you want to read a comprehensive report identifying both the problems and the solutions then check out the link below.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill



1. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm2135.cfm