Need advice on winning my girl back.

[SANDRO43]

In an agency, you start corresponding/talking with an idea of marriage in mind.

Depends on the type of agency (dating vs. marriage), and the individual agency, too. Most allow you to specify in your profile what you are seeking: marriage, long/short-term relationship, penpal, travel partner, sex partner , etc.

I thought you were against generalisations .

[Blues Fairy]

Still say this happens pretty much everywhere. The men are the ones who will invariably go and talk to the women and ask them out on a date. The men choose most of the time, and the women gets to say yes or no. 
Well, I still say that many women date without agencies with the idea of marriage in mine  :evil:

Good for them!  I was just trying to explain why SOME women (like me) may be squeamish of marriage agencies.  For the same reasons, I guess, that they may dislike hanging out with guys with an idea of marriage on top of their mind.  A clear agenda can sometimes kill the pleasure of communication.  The absence of it, however, can extend the communication without limits; but I certainly preferred to let the "agenda" form itself in the process rather than be imposed from the start, and I was willing to pay the price.  

True, many ladies will not chat up a man but at least they have a chance if they want to.  In the system Simoni has described where the agency called... I don't see how a lady could make the first move.  

[Blues Fairy]

Most allow you to specify in your profile what you are seeking: marriage, long/short-term relationship, penpal, travel partner, sex partner , etc.

Really?  Then those wouldn't be called "marriage agencies" would they? 

I wonder what is the business model of those versatile agencies you speak of.  People still pay for an agency to search up a travel/sex partner for them?  Maybe these additional options are added for versatility's sake but not really implied?

[Simoni]

Really?  Then those wouldn't be called "marriage agencies" would they? 

I wonder what is the business model of those versatile agencies you speak of.  People still pay for an agency to search up a travel/sex partner for them?  Maybe these additional options are added for versatility's sake but not really implied?

They are not called Marriage agencies.  That is a name some place on them.  I think of them like I think of match.com and eharmony in the USA.

And NO. NO. NO!  It is not about a "sex" partner.  That is offensive, BF.

[Simoni]

 
True, many ladies will not chat up a man but at least they have a chance if they want to.  In the system Simoni has described where the agency called... I don't see how a lady could make the first move.  

It is obvious you don't understand dating agencies, BF.  I gave one example in which the man writes the girl. But...

Yes, the girl can write the man.  And the man can write the girl.  I had lots of experiences with agencies.  I spent summers in Russia and Ukraine, and would typically meet girls for dating mostly using agencies.  Often I would go to the agency office and look at profiles.  Every single time, the office would be filled with girls, looking at guy profiles, and then writing those that interested them.

I typically got a dozen letters a week from girls who approached me first because they liked my profile. Some I answered, some I did not.  So it does work both ways, just like a dating agency in the US works.

[Blues Fairy]

Where's the offense?  I was just saying that serious expensive agencies are almost always marriage-oriented even if they advertise a bunch of other options.

[Simoni]

For the same reasons, I guess, that they may dislike hanging out with guys with an idea of marriage on top of their mind.  A clear agenda can sometimes kill the pleasure of communication.

Actually, I was dating girls.  Marriage was not the goal, but an acceptable outcome if I fell in love.

I'm very happy now that I dated a lot and saw lots of places before I "settled down" with one girl.   I found the girls I met in the fsu to be delightful, and very interesting to be with.  That is why I think dating is good, and why I think you have the wrong perception of what an agency is.

[Simoni]

Where's the offense?  I was just saying that serious expensive agencies are almost always marriage-oriented even if they advertise a bunch of other options.

The offense was your statement about meeting someone for sex via an agency. This statement:  "People still pay for an agency to search up a travel/sex partner for them..."

An agency does not have to be expensive.   I spent $45 with the agency I met my wife through to meet her.

[Blues Fairy]

The offense was your statement about meeting someone for sex via an agency. This statement:  "People still pay for an agency to search up a travel/sex partner for them..."

I was referring to Sandro's explanation that people may specify different objectives in their profiles, including finding a sex partner.  The idea of paying money for just that does seem weird to me, too, if that's any consolation. 

[Simoni]

I was referring to Sandro's explanation that people may specify different objectives in their profiles, including finding a sex partner.  The idea of paying money for just that does seem weird to me, too, if that's any consolation. 

There are a lot of agencies in the US (Friend Finders) that are for that purpose.  But I never encountered such in Ukraine or Russia.  They were basically ways of meeting people.  Not a bad thing at all.

[Misha]

A Russian woman who simply wanted sex would not have a pressing need to look specifically for a foreigner IMHO 

[Gator]

A Russian woman who simply wanted sex would not have a pressing need to look specifically for a foreigner IMHO 

Not true, just ask Pike.   

[Gator]

Blues Fairy,

Interesting that you felt that you had to choose first.  I pity the well intentioned Russian boy who got the courage to ask you out for a date (or whatever young boys and girls do in Russia).  Considering your ability to go for the jugular, he probably swore off women and did not leave his apartment for a month.   

What a beautiful world!  You found your interesting man in the way you wanted to find him.  Other women meet 10, 20, 30... men for coffee hoping to find someone interesting.  Is the result not the same if both find love and happiness.

Personally, I could never do the pen pal route.  Having said that, I spent 7x more time writing and calling my future wife than I did with any other.  So call me a liar.  As me, she was not a pen pal kind of woman - she simply did not have the time.  You should hear her comments about the typical guys who wrote her after buying her address from a marriage agony (a pun just for you BF).  I do not know how I successfully passed her "Delete Key" because she was brutal and quick. 


We have all heard the stories of keyboard romeos who never make the trip.  Your man did.  How many don't?  Personally, I think RW are more successful in finding a match via the string of meetings for coffee.  I know, you were not looking for a husband, yet you did.

[Misha]

Not true, just ask Pike.   

Well, something tells me that the women Pike "dates" are not too discerning when it comes to choosing sexual partners  

[Misha]

Personally, I could never do the pen pal route.

The problem with looking for a pen pal is that you may fall in love and she will still want to be nothing more than a pen pal. I preferred dating women who wanted more, though not necessarily committing myself to marriage on the first date.

[Diplomacy]

I think Pike may get a bad wrap.  He may be a one man embassy.  I am not too certain the men there would say he is "taking all the good women"

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[BillyB]

It's a safe bet over 90% of the letters from women who need money to meet in another location are scammers or pro-daters. With that in mind, it's foolish for a man or any person to send money to another person they never met, period. If she's willing to pay her way, then fine, go meet her wherever but she may give you a call right before the flight having a problem only solved with money. A man may take a woman of 5 or more exotic vacations before he finds out she's a pro-dater and not serious.

I know some of you sent money to your wife to meet in a neutral location and trust ruled the day but in reality, most men get scammed and if they don't get scammed, they feel they are owed something from the woman who showed up on their dime. Not a good way to start a relationship. Also women have been known to be raped meeting men in unfamiliar places or on the man's turf. There are documented stories of men inviting women to another country only to take their passports away, beat them into submission and force them into prostitution. Meeting strangers in an unfamiliar location isn't safe for women or wise for men.

How many exotic vacations must a man take a woman on or a woman go on before they find out each other's marriage material? Answer: NONE, you don't find out he or she is marriage material on a vacation like that. If a woman is looking for a family oriented man, she should be happy a guy wants to see her life and meet her family. It has to happen sooner or later so if a guy seems normal in the first few days of meeting, then why not introduce him to family and friends? You don't have to propose the first time you meet but the the ultimate goal between two people dating is hopefully marriage for the people who participate at this forum.

Some problems women have with "players" are that the "players" never seem interested in her family life or kids she has at home. How does she find out if she's found a family oriented man on an exotic vacation? She doesn't. This process is long enough and people don't need to waste time dating in situations where they're getting no answers about who they're really dating with. Once you found someone you trust and develop love with, take her on those exotic vacations then and only then. I doubt most of you behave like this on women you date at home and if you do pay for vacations with every woman you date, you will have nothing left for the wife when you do find her.

[Blues Fairy]

Interesting that you felt that you had to choose first.  I pity the well intentioned Russian boy who got the courage to ask you out for a date (or whatever young boys and girls do in Russia).  Considering your ability to go for the jugular, he probably swore off women and did not leave his apartment for a month. 

We have all heard the stories of keyboard romeos who never make the trip.

Well I guess I must be a keyboard Juliet.

Those 10-20 well- and not-so-well-intentioned boys I met for coffee in Moscow and other places just did not pass the talking test. Their jugulars are quite intact, no worries.   But they could have saved themselves the pains of rejection by learning to use the keyboard, and their brains, a little better.

[BillyB]

Well I guess I must be a keyboard Juliet.

Those 10-20 well- and not-so-well-intentioned boys I met for coffee in Moscow and other places just did not pass the talking test. Their jugulars are quite intact, no worries.   But they could have saved themselves the pains of rejection by learning to use the keyboard, and their brains, a little better.

Would an all expense paid trip to Paris for a coffee meeting make up the difference for what those men lacked in brains/character? Do you think it would it score some points with RW to the point they'll forget all a man's turn offs and any incompatibilities he has with themselves? You don't have to answer that BF. I suspect you and all sincere women value a man's character and compatibility over the amount of vacations he could provide.

I agree about men needing to use the keyboard and even the phone before visiting a RW. A guy may have to date 10-20 women before finding a serious candidate to spend his life with. Using prior communication can eliminate many of those he has little in common with. I also agree many RW don't have the time or easy access to use the internet to write to many men for months with no end in site. But many do like to talk on the phone if she likes the man.

[Julia G]

 I think, Rattlehead should let the girl live her life and seek for a better one. From my knowledge of personality types theory it sounds like asymmmetrical relationship www.socioncs.us read more here, but I would advice to look for one who will value your efforts more. Maybe she really has a ukranian boyfriend. It will be better luck if you communicate with girls who are foreign-marriage-minded from the very beginning.

[mies]

There is big probabilities she has a Ukrainian boyfriend. No ukrainian women I know who have feeling for a man will "drop" him if this is not him who want it.

1. boyfriend or no - is irrelevant here. She isn't interested in the author of this thread.
2. not only ukrainian woman - any woman who has true feelings for a man will not "drop" him so easily. Nationality is irrelevant here.

Coming over in January is good, but what are the further plans? Is the Rattlehead going to just date her? Marry her? If so - when?

What's the point of having a virtual relationship with AM for a young girl, if they see each other only once a year, and their future isn't clear? Romanticism is good, but for a young woman it isn't hard to find a good husband locally, and if she wants a family - local husband is a much more certain bet, than american virtual boyfriend. On virtual romance she'll be wasting her life and youth, while she may want to get married and have stable life and kids. Or maybe she wants to enjoy her youth and have fun - in that case virtual romance is also much less interesting than a real one - with a man of flesh and blood.

[mies]

Why is sending a gift with a note saying that I'm sorry for what I said because maybe there was a misunderstanding weak? 

why should you say sorry after she said she doesn't want you?

it isn't weak to send a note telling you are interested in getting to know her better and she matches your image of perfect wife. That's why you want to get to know each other better.

[JR]

Does anyone have any other advice for me other than essentially, "give up?"  Or am I wasting my time asking here? 

My advice? It's your life, live it. Get your a$$ on a plane and go find her. Lay it to rest and move on or live happily ever after with her. I doubt you will get her but it's not my life, it is yours. Find a way to lay it to rest.

 http://www.russian-detective.com/

[mies]

My advice? It's your life, live it. Get your a$$ on a plane and go find her. Lay it to rest and move on or live happily ever after with her. I doubt you will get her but it's not my life, it is yours. Find a way to lay it to rest.

 http://www.russian-detective.com/

JollyRats- you are giving him very bad advice about using detective. I (and any other normal woman) would drop immediately any man who would hire detective to investigate about me. I would lose all my love and feelings for this man in tenth of a second. I am very open person and i have nothing to hide, but when somebody start investigating whom i met and when, and my documents, and my workplace - this person is in trouble. The trouble is even greater if the man hires third party to do investigation. That's the easiest and fastest way to make me furious.

People are given tongue to communicate, and brain to think. For most people these two devices are quite sufficient for personal relationship/love arrangements. I tend to believe that if these 2 devices aren't sufficient for somebody - this person is a misfit for normal human relationship.

[JR]

JollyRats- you are giving him very bad advice about using detective.

I never said she should have her investigated. He only has her cell phone number. He needs an address to go get on his knees to ask her to take him back. She does not need to know how he found her, only that he put forth the effort and did. What else will he do? Go door to door asking for her? A bit time consuming don't you think?