My trip to ukraine, and advice on what not to do. What others fail to mention

[Gator]

 And don't worry - as bad as the toilets can be there, you can't get AIDS from a toilet seat.

Toilet seats?  I did not observe a lot of toilet seats in the public toilets.   

[Misha]

While the rate in the heterosexual non-drug using population has risen slightly, it's still a relatively small group. 

Scott, how do you define "slightly" and "relatively small group"? You were saying something similar about Russia and I did pull out the statistics for Russia and heterosexual non-drug using population infected with HIV/AIDS now represent 30+ per cent of new cases.

If your concern is strictly a personal one, then it's easy - while you are there don't share needles and use a condom should you choose to have sex with a man or woman you don't know well. 

And I would add that well means until both of you have been tested for everything and ideally both should be in a certain that you are not seeing someone else. Simply put, knowing someone for a few days would not be knowing them well.

Also, if memory serves me right, there are a few things that condoms don't protect from including genital warts.

[ScottinCrimea]

Misha, I'll try to find time to answer your questions later (got a football game to watch now) but this little quote from a study by Avert.org might provide some food for thought:

In Ukraine, the growth of heterosexual transmission as a proportion of total HIV incidences between 2001 and 2006 (28% to 35%) is largely attributable to unprotected sex with an injecting drug user.

[kievstar]

Use dental dam and condoms and bring your own needles and no problem.

Most of the aids issues are happening with hospital needles and drug use.  Drug use is more in the small villages as the bigger cities the more expensive drugs or marijuana is more common.  One big issue is all the girls going for the lip tattoos and their getting aids as these tattoo parlours are not using fresh needles.  So be careful of the girls with the lip tattoos.  Many young women are getting the lip tattoos and have no idea how dangerous it is. 

You will not see the aids victims walking around as few foreigners really visit the non tourist areas in Ukraine.  It is a little misleading when they say Ukraine and Russia are fast growing countries of aids.  10 years ago no one had aids.  So of course it will be fast growing as aids is very new to these countries.  Africa and parts of Asia have a lot higher % of population with aids than Ukraine / Russia.  USA and France probably higher as well.  San Fran is very high as after the dude got it on with a monkey in Africa he had sex with a gay airline worker from San Fran.  This airline worker than spread it around the global airlines and San Fran bath houses.
To bad someone could not stay away from primates. 

[mendeleyev]

If the WHO is correct, but to pin the problem on drug users and "sexual professionals" then we'd have to see about 15+% of the population as needle sharing prostitutes.  That I'd think would be very noticable.

Condoms are a poor protection against a deadly virus.  Kievstar, 10 years ago AIDS was in Russia and Ukraine.  The WHO and United Nations measures rapidity of growth when tagging a region with the "epidemic" label.  When compared with other third world countries (I do count Russia outside the top 4-5 cities as primarily third world) Russia-Ukraine is outpacing most Africian countries.

USA and France are not immune obviously.  But nowhere near competing with the countries mentioned.  That doesn't make the West any more superior than any other region, it just means that statistics give us a opportunity to guage and measure a problem.  Only when the FSU region admits to a problem will it commit to doing something about it. 

UNICEF identifies Uzbekistan and Ukraine as 2 countries with serious "mother to child" spread of HIV/AIDS statistics.  Russia and Ukraine share a unique distinction:  99% of the population is literate yet the average female/male life span has dropped in the last decade to 68 years of age.  In reality it's worse for men and the women pull the average up a little.

[neo]

I think to be honest, if you are worrying about aids by sleeping with a ukrainian woman then you need to not go to ukraine. or for that matter have sex.

The statistical increase is based around Ukraine "catching up" with western problems, AIDS was a huge problem in the US when it first hit, huge money spent educating people has brought the increase down in western countries.

I know a Russian girl who caught a STD, she had only ever had 3 sexual partners in her entire life, she caught the STD after her then boyfriend had had unprotected sex with a prostitute. therefore there are innocent victims there just as there are in our own countries.

You can avoid transmission risks by:

Both having STD and AIDS tests done when you decide to start a relationship.
Not have unprotected sex for the first 6 months of your relationship
Get retested after 6 months. if you are both clear then you should be safe to have unprotected sex providing one of you isnt up to infidelity.

The odds of an average UW/RW who isnt invovled in drugs or prostitution getting aids is very very slight unless she is having unprotected sex with a man who is conducting illicit sexual affairs with high risk partners (bisexuals, prostitutes, drug users, promiscuous sorts).

Given most well brought up UW/RW are more conservative about sex outside serious relationships than western girls were a drunken one night stand is a weekly event, if you are involved with a decent woman and not mongering about Ukraine like Pike then your risk is less than if you meet a girl in a bar in london.

In reality if getting AIDS worries you that much - dont have sex.

[Misha]

In reality if getting AIDS worries you that much - dont have sex.

There is sex with a condom and unprotected sex. In addition to HIV/AIDS, there are a host of other STDs that are rampant (both in Russia and elsewhere). Some are curable, some are not. Just because a woman looks conservative, it does not mean that she does not have something.

[neo]

hence my point, if getting any form of STD worries you dont have sex period.

Relying on condoms is not sufficient, condoms can and do break therefore even protected sex carries a risk. And as i mentioned even a girl who has not been promiscuous is at risk of being a innocent victim of a partner who is.

seriously, you never, ever have 100 percent warranty that any partner will not give you a STD all you can do is alter your risk exposure, if you want zero risk then simply abstain.

[Misha]

hence my point, if getting any form of STD worries you dont have sex period.

Relying on condoms is not sufficient, condoms can and do break therefore even protected sex carries a risk. And as i mentioned even a girl who has not been promiscuous is at risk of being a innocent victim of a partner who is.

seriously, you never, ever have 100 percent warranty that any partner will not give you a STD all you can do is alter your risk exposure, if you want zero risk then simply abstain.

Neo, that would be like saying that if you never want to be injured in a car accident, then you should never get into a car. True enough. However, most people come to a reasonable balance: they get into cars, but they avoid overly risky behavior and buckle up. True, it is not a guarantee that you won't be injured or killed, but it helps.

[Shadow]

Neo, that would be like saying that if you never want to be injured in a car accident, then you should never get into a car. True enough. However, most people come to a reasonable balance: they get into cars, but they avoid overly risky behavior and buckle up. True, it is not a guarantee that you won't be injured or killed, but it helps.

However not many people would step in to a Zaporozhe and drive it without knowing who is the owner or if it has been serviced recently. 

[kievstar]

Condoms only break if you do not put it on correctly, if lube is needed, etc  This is going to be to graphic so I can not explain everything.  But condoms break due to people not really knowing how to use them.  Most people have no clue.  Having a girl put one on you with her mouth or hand is not a good idea.  Also, buy good brands and make sure not exposed to extreme temperatures.  Putting condoms in your luggage and than checking it is a disaster (cold / warm in storage).  Condoms in wallet a bad idea.  Durex (spelling) is good brand to buy in Ukraine but check the date as most are post due. 

[kryten41]

They also break if they are defective.  They have also been known to come off.

[Misha]

They have also been known to come off.

Is that when women are supposed to give the "it is not the size that matters, but how you use it" spiel  :evil: Sorry, couldn't resist 

[kievstar]

You can look at a condom to see if it is defective.  If it comes off, than somebody is a little to small. 

[GoodOlBoy]

condom ......If it comes off, than somebody is a little to small.  

OUCH!!  :ohbrother:

GOB

[ScottinCrimea]

OUCH!!  :ohbrother:

GOB

What?  A little too close to home?   

[jj]

what do they call a guy who buys cheap condoms?



 "daddy"

[kievstar]

Do not use a plastic sandwich wrap either like many do in Detroit who can not afford condoms.  Condoms work 100% of the time if you know how to use them and inspect them.  Not going to post anymore on this but you guys should also use dental dam. 

[Shadow]

I am willing to bet that saying 'no' repeatedly will still prove more safe than condoms. 

[BC]

Not going to post anymore on this but you guys should also use dental dam. 

Pretty scary......



 

[neo]

im guessing not having carnal relations with dirty wimmin would be a better plan.

[KenC]

im guessing not having carnal relations with dirty wimmin would be a better plan.

:selfharm:
And you will determine this how?
  :noidea:
KenC

[neo]

well if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and quacks like a duck....



guess what Ken, its probably a duck.


 

[BC]

well if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

guess what Ken, its probably a duck.


 

Other than the tattoo as a rather 'fuzzy' ID, on the street, in a store, in a club, in an agency meeting room one would not recognize a 'duck'.

[neo]

correction BC, most MEN would not recognise a duck.

Most women i know recognised the difference between a duck and a swan instantly. they can almost always tell who the wives are, who the mistresses are and who the paid escorts or just from first glance.

but you are right, the average guy wouldnt spot a duck if it bit him on the nose.