Specific Ukrainian Woman

[AramisLux]

i want to thank Scott again for another very helpful post. i will try to heed your advice and "word of wisdom".

since we are discussing Zhanna's pics, i have to say that by far the best pic of her that i ever saw was the one hrb sent to me with her posing with a candy box. it was certainly not professionally done, yet she looked very fun, charismatic, and approachable in it, and she also had striking raven colored hair.

i would love to share the photo here, but i am not sure if i ever archived it. i will have to check.

[AramisLux]

Misha:

if you would like to share a list of sites, i would appreciate it. i will certainly check out all of you suggestions. thanks

[Simoni]

If this ranking is indeed based on votes of Anastasia members, it says a lot about what turns on the typical man leering at UW.  The question remains whether these men ever take a trip or ever marry a UW. 

And i still recommend that men avoid the RW with such glamour photos.

As you know Gator, many agencies will list the most "popular" girls with two purposes-- 1) They  first page shown "has" to look hot, so keyboard Romeos will think "This agency has hot girls," and 2) They place their professional daters at the top of the list, because they have office staff who "know" the cover story of the girl and will fake the letters to Romeo.  At an agency in Kharkiv, one office staff girls plays the role of 8 women, and carries 8 cell phones in her purse, each with a cover name taped to the back.

And yes, all of these "girls" are shown in the top 25 with sexy glamour shots.

The solution?  Don't write to pictures, guys.  Go in person and romance the girls there.

AramisLux--  That same agency has a deal with girls.  The hand them a box of candy, take a picture, send the picture to the guy and take the candy back! Oh, and the girl gets 25 gvrn. for making the pic 

AramisLux-- Don't be the typical victim of such scams.  Read, read, read-- and then get on the plane.  You'll find lots of girls with raven colored hair. 

[Misha]

Misha:

if you would like to share a list of sites, i would appreciate it. i will certainly check out all of you suggestions. thanks

There are a number of sites that you might want to try.

There is the Russian equivalent of Facebook: vkontakte.ru. It has 26 million members and has an English interface. You can sign up and set up a profile. Once you have done that, you can join some of the groups. There is even one for people who want to practice their Russian. I am sure they will have lots of attractive women.

There is also mail.ru. You can set up an account (e-mail). Mail.ru has a Mail.ru agent which is a IM software for Windows. It is quite popular. You also have "My World" in Mail.ru which is another social networking site. They also have a function called "Rate My Photo." If you go through the photos and rate the women that you find attractive 5 out of 5, some will get in touch with you. Again, this site is a bit tougher because it is not in English, but with an online translator you should be able to muddle your way through it.

Finally, ICQ was popular in Russia and still is used quite a bit. You might want to check it out and do searches for women in Russia. You can try initiating contact this way. Of course, it will be hit and miss as most won't speak English or won't be interested, but if you are persistent you will eventually find some women interested in chatting. Then, it will be up to you to keep them interested.

All of these options will allow you to chat with real women for free without having to pay agencies such as HRB large sums of money.

[Gator]

i would love to share the photo here, but i am not sure if i ever archived it. i will have to check.

AramisLux--  That same agency has a deal with girls.  The hand them a box of candy, take a picture, send the picture to the guy and take the candy back! Oh, and the girl gets 25 gvrn. for making the pic 

Call me cynical, I assume HRB has that photo archived, and uses it every time a man buys Zhanna a box of candy.   Maybe I am pushing my criticism too far.  Whatever,  listen to Simoni's guidance:

The solution?  Don't write to pictures, guys.  Go in person and romance the girls there.

That guidance applies if your correspondence is filtered through an agency on a pay as you go basis.  Remember the Third Commandment:  Work to eliminate any agency from your communications.

As alternatives to agencies, Misha mentioned a number of free resources.  One of RWD's real gentlemen, Jet, met his wife on ICQ 6 years ago.

[Simoni]

Call me cynical, I assume HRB has that photo archived, and uses it every time a man buys Zhanna a box of candy.   Maybe I am pushing my criticism too far.  Whatever, listen to Simoni's guidance:

It goes even deeper than that.  I once dated a girl with Army of Brides.  They had about a dozen different gifts, so that would mean they would have to have a pic of the girl with each gift!   So I was relieved when one pic came back with the girl wearing a t-shirt I had sent her.   Guess they even personalize! 

[AramisLux]

i don't doubt that they have that photo of Zhanna in their archive at hrb. but i do have my doubts as to whether they will say they have an archive of it. i will ask them and see what they tell me. i will bet they tell me "we don't archive those photos".

i never completely believed that the "candy box" photos were anything other than a part of their game, but i liked to get a photo of certain people posing with a candy box because it served as a good way to get a more "real" picture of the girl. just like doing two seconds of video chat with someone. it helps to see what they look like without being completely made up with make-up or "photo-shopped". Zhanna was one of the few girls that looked better, at least to me, in her "candybox" photo. most candybox photos just illustrated the "awful truth" about a girl.

thanks everyone for your advice.

[AramisLux]

a staff member at hrb is going to check my "file" to see if the photo is in there. i will get back here when hrb has told me something about it.

[Daveman]

i want to begin this post by thanking Scott for his comments. he is right about the fact that many people here have helpful things to say. although, obviously, i don't think a lot of what has been posted in this thread is very helpful. There are examples, however, of some constructive and insightful posters. i am thinking mostly of Vaughn and Gator in saying this.

Oh come now, Aramis, surely my scintillating posts were helpful... 

some of you are no doubt ready to suggest that this post must be the work of a "loser" or someone with some kind of problem; after all, writing all of this takes some work. the reason i went to the trouble of writing this is partly because of the posts in this thread that i find a little bit embarresing and disturbing. i don't know why some of you have to suggest someone is a "loser" or that someone else is a "prostitute'. there are a lot of posts in this thread that are just pathetic. i see where BillR has not been using this forum lately. i can guess why. i wonder how many people join this forum and then don't come back much. there is a lot of churlish, petty thing going on here. can we clean up our act just a little?

I'd clean it up if it were indeed an act.  Aramis, being "sucker punched" by HRB doesn't make anyone a loser. I can see how normal man looking toward FSU for the first time can be taken in for a short while. Especially so if he didn't look around much.   Read my mini rant up thread to see what is truly aggravating about some of this scam nonsense. Most guys get the bad news, piss and moan about it, and then run away to live out there lives in their warped little fantasy land.  They don't leave because we give them a hard time.  They leave because they don't want to give up the fantasy.  You are still here.  That says quite a bit.  Hang around.

a staff member at hrb is going to check my "file" to see if the photo is in there. i will get back here when hrb has told me something about it.

Hey if they "still" have it on "file", I'd love to see it.  Of course they'd never admit that they keep it on file to send to everyone, but in any case, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing a different shot of that particular lass.   

 

[AramisLux]

Daveman:

if you think that hrb is just an extension of the dirty "scam policies" of disreputable agencies in the fsu, i won't disagree with you; not completely anywayz. maybe i don't see it quite as black and white as you do.

i have absolutely no problem with you or anyone else giving some guy the "bad news". that, clearly, is not the problem. i just wonder if the way you choose to break the news is really helpful. there are ways to break the bad news to a guy so that he sees the light and at the same time doesn't go away feeling like someone or many people here insulted him. from where i see this situation, i am not really sure if some posters here have as much interest in helping as they do in disrespecting people. it is almost like the real interest is in being insulting while breaking the bad news is just an opportunity for some guys here to be insulting.

the fact that i am still here does say quite a bit. i do agree with you completely. it says quite a bit about how thick my skin is. you see Daveman, over the course of my career, i have had lots and lots of experiences with very difficult and downright mean people. i have worked for and with people that most "employees" don't just walk away from - they run like their sanity is at stake. i know exactly what it is like to go into work each morning knowing i was walking into a battlefield. a battlefield of emotional devastation. i worked for one firm in the Los Angeles area that probably set a record for how quickly they turned over their workforce. they could probably be in the guinness book of world records. headhunters would hang around the place like vultures because people working for this firm would scream "get me outta here!!!" to them on the phone. i had headhunters tell me these kinds of things (i got lots of calls from headhunters while working there). guys like me, who stayed in the game, kept running tallies of the number of people who resigned each week and each month. we found it a little amusing actually; not that i ever for a second wanted to see anyone treated with the slightest disrespect. the amusement was in watching management institute "reforms" that only made the company worse. by the time i worked for that firm, i had already been through "bad boss boot-camp" so the whole thing was, for me, a kind of subtle reminder of how damaging really bad bosses can be. i have seen how people can be too scared to go into work and function the way they should. about one year after i resigned (i wanted to move back to newport beach), i got a call from a headhunter that tried to interest me in a job that paid $130,000 per annum. i asked her: is this job with "xyz advisors"? when she said, "yes" (and i knew she would), i said "i'll pass".

i guess my experiences with really difficult bosses is one reason i have some sympathy for beaten down and disrespected people.

i would certainly never suggest that you don't make a good contribution to this forum with your posts in other threads and with your trip report(s); this particular thread just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. it's the kind of thing that i hope new members of this forum won't read here.

[Diplomacy]

That is the good and bad of the forum.  It is better when you look at the history of the poster, and what they have said in the past. 

Some of it is tough love, some of it is people by their own omission here for entertainment.  As you seem to have a pretty good grasp of the baptism by fire theory, understand this is minor leagues compared to the actual trek of marriage with a FSUW.

It is a very thick skinned pursuit, so IMO people chased away early are in some instances being helped more than they will ever know. 

I was on HRB on purpose, I wanted and got exposure to all sorts of personalities.  I know my instincts are good in regards to America.  I wanted to ensure myself that I had good instincts with FSUW.

The long and short of it for me, was that they are like any other women.  There appears in a lot of cases, that the expectations in a FSU relationship are a little different.  FSUW are often very attention centric, they give and like a lot of attention. 

You do not have the luxury of just making a decision, there must be a conversation as to why you think that is a correct decision.  In my case anyways, maybe that is one that is personality specific.

Had I not been introduced to my fiance, I was able to find one girl that I thought was amazing.  You only need to find one, and it is possible on HRB. 

I just think there are better avenues available with other agencies or free sites.

[LEGAL]

i am not really sure if some posters here have as much interest in helping as they do in disrespecting people. it is almost like the real interest is in being insulting while breaking the bad news is just an opportunity for some guys here to be insulting.

quote author=Diplomacy "That is the good and bad of the forum.  It is better when you look at the history of the poster, and what they have said in the past.

Some of it is tough love, some of it is people by their own omission here for entertainment."


I agree look at how many people don't post, it shouldn't be this way. Like I have said in the past its not what you say and how you say it.  It cost nothing to be nice!
To me this just show's the true content of their character.

[Gator]

...from where i see this situation, i am not really sure if some posters here have as much interest in helping as they do in disrespecting people....breaking the bad news is just an opportunity for some guys here to be insulting.

A few points:

1.  If one is serious about the RW endeavor, one has some emotional feelings, so any criticism will be hurtful.

2.  What you experienced is not as bad as what some other new members received in the past.  That does not mean it is OK.

3.  My opinion is that almost all critical posters wish to be helpful, and very rarely are thrilled by seeing someone humiliated in public.  Some may wish to look cute, and with that the feelings of the receiver become secondary.

4.  It is difficult to sugar coat some of the advice given here.  Ideally, criticism should be presented in the following sequence:  welcome a new member, acknowledge what he is doing correctly, identify his errors, define the possible negative consequences, and offer viable alternatives.  Few would take the time to do that, and in the process some thin-skinned people may leave.  Yet, in the collection of all posts in a "public humiliation" thread, each of these components can be found.  The new member must take responsibility to find them and to somehow have skin thick enough to ignore the other.

5.  Perhaps such threads are a good filter for the new member, because OMBs almost universally agree that a man needs thick skin to succeed with RW.

the fact that i am still here does say quite a bit..

Yes, please stay around here and participate in other threads.  And I hope you do travel to the FSU.

[Daveman]

Daveman:

if you think that hrb is just an extension of the dirty "scam policies" of disreputable agencies in the fsu, i won't disagree with you; not completely anywayz. maybe i don't see it quite as black and white as you do.

Aramis,
There were about 7 pages of this thread of people very politely pointing out the fallacy of this type of situation.  That didn't seem to get the point across.  Logic and reason and the soft sell don't always work and when it doesn't, we (or in this case I) will try to smash the fantasy by whatever means necessary to save guys a bundle of money and heartache down the road if possible.  I'm sorry if that offends your whatever it offended.  The most important aspect, at least to me, is to somehow smash the fantasy before the guy is ripped off even more.

If you don't see this in black and white, that's fine.  (Hell, some guys don't even see the Visa/Ticket scam, even when we prove to them that she can't get a visa).  You probably won't completely get it until you go visit...  There have been many before you who have been taken by this business model.  They actually go visit, drop a ton of money on airline tickets, apartments, dinner dates, gifts, the cell phone scam, the taxi and driver scam, etc. -- several different ways to pluck the chicken, but the ladies really are not looking for a "good man for marriage", they are props (bait) in Act I picking your pocket through the web site options, and then the Damsels in Distress in Act II of the nefarious performance.  Read again what Neo mentioned up thread.  In 5 years there has never been even a single good story, much less a story of success from HRB and others like it.  I've only been around RW websites for 2 years but all the stories are the same.

So yes, these threads are absolutely necessary because, while some will argue to the death to defend some Internet Mirage, others will come here, do a search, read this and/or other threads like it, see the scam for what it is (either from the logic of the soft sell, or the harder approach), and will get away from it.

[AramisLux]

Daveman:

i would never suggest that threads like this should not exists. it is obvious to me that they can be helpful and necessary. all i am trying to get through to you is that, regardless of whether you want to use a soft sell or a hard sell, insulting people is not an effective way of persuading them. and it doesn't reflect positively on this forum, IMHO. insulting people is going to be most effective at one result: alienation. once you have effectively alienated people, what more good can you do for them? none, zero, zilch, nada. i really think you have a lot to learn about persuading people or motivating them. or, maybe the reality is that you really just don't care.

if and when i ever do go to the fsu, i would certainly never assume completely that anyone there i might communicate with beforehand would be in any way reliable. i already know how effectively women can ruin the best intended plans. anyone who doesn't have plans B, C, and D prepared in advance is just asking for a really bad and unproductive experience, i think. for me, the most important thing about going there would be to meet people first hand; the best way to get a real relationship started over there probably. i just assume that being proactive and defensive is what it is all about.

as con games go, all these fsu scams almost seem to be kinda unsophisticated actually. anyone with an analytical mind is going to see right through them. the vietnamese, with their POW scams, seem to be much more adept and productive at these kinds of games. and then, of course, there are the nigerians.

[Daveman]

Daveman:

i would never suggest that threads like this should not exists. it is obvious to me that they can be helpful and necessary. all i am trying to get through to you is that, regardless of whether you want to use a soft sell or a hard sell, insulting people is not an effective way of persuading them. and it doesn't reflect positively on this forum, IMHO. insulting people is going to be most effective at one result: alienation. once you have effectively alienated people, what more good can you do for them? none, zero, zilch, nada. i really think you have a lot to learn about persuading people or motivating them. or, maybe the reality is that you really just don't care.

if and when i ever do go to the fsu, i would certainly never assume completely that anyone there i might communicate with beforehand would be in any way reliable. i already know how effectively women can ruin the best intended plans. anyone who doesn't have plans B, C, and D prepared in advance is just asking for a really bad and unproductive experience, i think. for me, the most important thing about going there would be to meet people first hand; the best way to get a real relationship started over there probably. i just assume that being proactive and defensive is what it is all about.

as con games go, all these fsu scams almost seem to be kinda unsophisticated actually. anyone with an analytical mind is going to see right through them. the vietnamese, with their POW scams, seem to be much more adept and productive at these kinds of games. and then, of course, there are the nigerians.

Aramis, we can debate individual behavior in a group dynamic all day long (of which I have a decent grasp). The bottom line is this. Prior to being insulted, you were speaking like a ga ga eyed fool. After you felt insulted, you began speaking like an intelligent guy. Prior to being insulted you were defending HRB and your "relations" with ladies on that site. After, you began to listen to the other guys who had been trying to reason with you.  As much as I hate to say it, sometimes the Fantasy Hammer (or a good slap in the face) is a necessary evil. 

Sure, you may have come around after 40 more pages of mild persuasion, but why bother?  People reading these threads who have lust for these babes are looking for any form of validation to continue with the dream.  There is no validation, it's a scam, plain and simple. 

So, if I insulted you, I apologize, let's go have a beer and forget about it.  Whaddya say?  Welcome to the board. 

[AramisLux]

Daveman:

your ability to misunderstand and misread this situation just continues to astound me. or maybe you just love to create arguments like any typical drama queen. first, i never felt personally insulted by anything in this thread. probably because it is all so sophomoric. anyone who wants to try to insult me is going to have to get a lot more serious about it. i found posts in this thread embarrassing and disturbing (have to repeat myself to you now because you are not willing to read). and there were those here who made ridiculous, unfounded accusations about me. this i found disturbing and tedious.

when i have used the word "insulting" here, i am not suggesting that i am insulted personally. i am suggesting that other people who are asking for help here are being insulted.

and when was i ever "speaking like a ga ga eyed fool"? that is just one more accusation that cannot stand up to any analysis. here is some simple advice for you: read what i have written here; then do some critical thinking before spouting your inane, crazy "conclusions"?

i made clear that i am not here defending hrb. i did defend Zhanna. that is certainly true (doesn't anyone read posts here before they reply)?

[Daveman]

Seems we have a mutually critical opinion of each other's intelligence level, perceptions, and reasoning capabilities. let's leave it at that and move on, shall we?

[Gator]

Dave,

It seems you will be drinking alone unless you buy me one.    Probably just as well. 

Don't know if we will be seeing the photo of Zhanna with a box of candy (perhaps an empty box?). 

Maybe Mr. SexTourist will write her and ask for some titillating poses.

[GoodOlBoy]

Daveman:....maybe you just love to create arguments like any typical drama queen.

 


GOB

[AramisLux]

i do have some good news with respect to the "candybox" photos. hrb sent me three pics of Zhanna!

maybe this will make Daveman happy....

[Daveman]

i do have some good news with respect to the "candybox" photos. hrb sent me three pics of Zhanna!

maybe this will make Daveman happy....

Indeed! I'm a happy camper!  Get them up there while I buy Gator and GOB a beer! 

[AramisLux]

i don't remember ever seeing any of these "candybox" pics. the one i remember was similar to the "merci" photo.

[Daveman]

Yep, she's still a babe, though I must admit after seeing the last couple of photos that I can see how someone would consider her a tad less attractive than what she appears in the main photo posted up thread.  But -- still with an excellent draw factor. Heck, even being aware of the situation, she's still a temptress for sure.  Imagination does have a tendency to run a little wild (I'm completely devoted, but not dead by a long shot).

Interesting that you don't remember seeing these specific photos, but they pulled them up and sent them anyway (meaning that they would be sending photos they know were not made at your request).  I wonder what the reaction would be for a guy who was seriously interested, who requested the archive of his photos, and then saw others which were new to him. 

[GoodOlBoy]

Hello AramisLux.

Did you send her all of those boxes of chocolates?

The woman has a sweet tooth! 


GOB