Returned

[bobb]

It was over 3 years ago and 5 trips to the FSU when I thought I had ended this adventure.  Who was I kidding.  Somehow I got snared again and am now engaged to a wonderful RW.  Everything I learned the hard way a few years ago helped me a great deal this time.  We met in St Petersburg for 11 fantastic days in mid October.  I go back in January to Izhevsk (her home town) and again in May.  I expect her to arrive in mid to late summer.  I still see several familiar names from years ago.

[Tamara]

Bobb, Congratulations on being engaged!  It sounds like you are tied with FSU forever. How did you like Saint Petersburg?  It's my home city, where I was born and grew up. Do you go to Petersburg or Izhevsk in May? Best of luck with your trip in January.

[Shadow]

Welcome back Bobb. You should have known that once you know the women there its hard to give up on them.
Congratulations on your engagement, and I hope this time will last.

[ScottinCrimea]

Hi bobb!

Hope you don't mind if I play the role of the cynic on this one, as it's probably my turn.  Ready? Here goes.....

So your total face time is an 11 day vacation in St. Petersburg and already you're engaged and starting the K1.  Sure, RW are a lot of fun on a vacation and St. Petersburg is a great city, so I'm sure you had a great time, but how well can you really know this woman?   What's the rush?  You are already planning two more trips to see her, so couldn't such a serious decision have waited until you had more time together, saw her in her home environment, met her family, etc.?  It seems you are setting yourself up to learn more hard lessons.  I'm afraid that next you will be telling us that she is under 24 years old and barely speaks English.  Please don't!

If one learns anything from these forums, it is the importance of really getting to know the person before you commit. I'm sure we will hear that you have talked on the phone for hours every day and discussed everything in detail, but as many letters and phone conversations as one may have, nothing can replace a reasonable amount of face time in truly knowing that person.

Again, what's the hurry?

[GoodOlBoy]

Somehow I got snared again and am now engaged to a wonderful RW. 

Hi Bob,

    I am new to this forum, but congratulations and I wish you much happiness. It sounds like 2009 will be a very good year for you.   

[Dobie65]

Again, what's the hurry?

Well, to me it sounds like LOVE!

[bobb]

Tamara:

I loved St Petersburg.  It was simple going through customs and it is a beautiful city.  We walked and walked and walked many places.  We stayed in an apartment on Nevsky Prospekt about 5 minutes from the train station.  As you can imagine we did have some lengthy walks.  It was cloudy, windy, and cool but it didn't rain very often.  I go to Izhevsk in May.  L will meet me at Domodedovo around 1 pm, after taking a 16 hour train trip.  We will then take the same 16 hour train trip back to Izhevsk.  It will be a great adventure.

If you would like to see my vision of Petersburg you can Click here! to see many of the places we saw during our walks.
You will only see photos of St Petersburg and none of us in this album.  73 photos of me, L and US are not for public viewing.  They have only been shared with family and friends.


ScottinCrimea:

I don't care if you play the cynic.  You have no knowledge of me, L, or my past.  You have not read the letters we have wrote each other, nor have you heard her intonations, laughter, and tenderness in our phone conversations.  You were not there in St Petersburg and have no idea how our meeting went.  For your information I had planned on going to Izhevsk but we decided on St Petersburg as it would give us the opportunity to be together the entire time without any distractions.  Sure it was a vacation but not in the sense you are probably thinking.  I just turned 60 a few days ago and she is NOT 24.  She is 33 and 1/2 years older than 24.  We have in many ways the same type of soul and we both could pass for early 50's.  When I go in January I will meet her 32 year old son and her two younger brothers and their families.  That is her entire family.  Why wait.  It was a decision we both made together.  I doubt very much there will be anything either of us will experience in January or May that will change either of our minds.  How often we talk on the phone is between us.  I have no idea how old or young you are Scott.  I do know eyes, smiles, laughter, and tenderness do not lie.   

Yes GoodOlBoy 2009 should be a very good year. 

I will add one further comment.  Of the 73 photos I mention above my friends and family have seen, I have had numerous comments that we look as if we have been together for years.  We are both old enough and have many life experiences to make us believe this is the real deal.  We are not going to be going though major changes with the basic people we are.             

[ScottinCrimea]

bobb,  I appreciate your not taking offense as none was intended, just asking the "obligatory" questions that inevitably come and giving you the opportunity to respond.  Of course I have no knowledge of what transpired in St. Petersburg.  My KGB connections just aren't that good.

What a relief to hear she's not a 24 year old infatuation!

Thanks for the further insight and I honestly do wish you both the best.  If you both have truly found what you have been looking for, it's a wonderful thing.

[Faux Pas]

bobb,

Great pictures and they bring back some very wonderful memories for me. St Petersburg is a spectacular city and I look forward to returning one day. Good luck on the second time around. You are seasoned enough I can't offer any advice. I had a first meeting in SPB and it too was quite magical. Sometimes it pays to go against conventional wisdom.

[Phil dAmore]

bobb:

You stayed in the hotel 'Anabel'?  Maybe you met my good friend Masha?  She is one of the desk clerks.

Great pics... damn I miss the place.

Glad you had a great time, best of luck to you.

[Vaughn]

Well, bobb, your closeness in age among all the factors you mentioned sure takes the
bite out of any skepticism that usually surfaces here. It's refreshing to know that I'm
not alone in considering many FSU women over 50 very attractive....

I wish you both much growth in your mutual feelings, and many happy years together.

Vaughn

[bobb]

Actually we stayed at an apartment on the 6th floor across from the hotel.  L suggested I look at Oksana's website and she liked this apartment as it was right on Nevsky Prospekt.  Actually it is inside the courtyard and any noise from Nevsky was not even heard.  We ate breakfast and dinner, all but one or two nights, in the apartment.  Lunch we ate out.  We found a great little restaurant just down from the Cathedral of Spilled Blood we ate at four times.  This restaurant was in the photos.  For an additional 30 Euros we had the use of a computer the entire time.  The computer was invaluable for some conversations.  I would setup two windows of  Google translate and we did fine.  I really had to concentrate and use no slang or words that could have two meanings.  When that occurred I just rephrased my message and it was understandable.  Most of the time we did not need the translation, but for any in depth conversations it was needed.  We even had a misunderstanding that without Google translate could have been something that would have dampened our spirits for awhile.

Anyone going to St Petersburg I would strongly recommend Oksana's, if looking for an apartment.  L arrived after a 31 train trip early in the morning and I was not arriving until just over 12 hours later.  The apartment had been rented the night before but they let her in at 1:00pm.

Before we met I rented a movie from Netflix - Moscow does not believe in Tears.  What a great movie.  It may not be so relevant for some with young Russian women but this is an excellent movie for a glimpse into the Russian soul and the importance of family.  This movie has it all.  I guess I could add it won an Academy Award in 1980 and the USSR State Prize in 1982.  Ronald Regan saw this move a few times before his first visit with Gorbachev.

It's going to be wonderful in Izhevsk in January.  We will go ice skating and we will go out in the woods on skis or snowshoes.  As I've told her when her family sees how happy we are together, and as they learn who I am, they will understand why she is so happy.  I'm not nervous as I know who I am and how we both feel about each other.  I also know I will be able to say enough in Russian to impress them.  They are even nervous somewhat about meeting me.    Her son is excited to meet me after all L has told him about me.  She didn't tell even her son about why she was going to St Petersburg.  She did not want anyone to put negative thoughts into her mind...so Russian.  The only one who knew why she was going to St Petersburg was her good friend who talked her into putting her profile on Elena's.  Her friend, even told her to lie about her age in her profile.  I could understand completely her reasoning.  She actually contacted me first.  My Russian is better than it was years ago.  I still have trouble with words that end differently because of the female/male issue, but my pronunciation is good.  I even find myself answering friends at work and family in Russian with simple sayings.  While I'm there I will setup up Skype so we can communicate on the computer as she has a computer at her apartment.     

Her first letter was a general letter but was so poetic it captured my attention and each following letter and phone calls only reinforced the feeling of maybe I had found her.  In all my correspondence previously I had never read anything like what she wrote in her introductory letter.  Neither of us has any 'baggage' that will get in the way.  She has been divorced for over 30 years and as many know there is no chance she will find love in Russia.  I've had several relationships with American women and none can compare to what I feel for this woman.  So much is in what she says and how she says it.  It is the look in her eyes, her honest smile, her warmth, and her tenderness I experienced.  Unless you have experienced these same things it may only be words to some.  The ENTIRE time we were in St Petersburg when we walked around our hands were always together.  As she told me in her first letter after my return:

"Again and again I recollect our walks on Nevsky. You do not release my hand from your. Despite of a rain and cool weather, on a strong wind... It was very warm with you. Legs have got tired from long walks, but it was all the same well for me. Because you were with me."

Yes, we are in love.  What is also so wonderful is we are like young lovers and do not think negatively, although we both know the hard work necessary for a successful and loving, lasting relationship.

Scott:

I understand your original comments and have no problem with them.  I've never been one to look for a woman that much younger than me.  It works for others, I just have never been comfortable with that scenario for my own reasons, which are valid only for me. 

In ending this reply I will share with you a portion of her introductory letter to me:

"It seems to me a secret  of happiness is simple: when you understand, accept such what you are.  Happiness- is wisdom of the woman and patience of the man.  Many prefer definiteness in misfortune than to risk to become happy.  I am ready to risk!  And you?  For many men and women search each other. In world so easy to lose, pass past and so difficultly to find about whom You dream, whom passionately you wish, looking at the happy in love pairs.  Probably, I shall be shown ridiculous and naive, but I really believe in Love.  I really want to meet mine man and to be for Him the loving girlfriend loved and the desired woman, and sometimes "Little girl" who requires in strong and confident man.  Our life is fine and so rapid.  And it would be desirable to be in time and to not lose those invaluable minutes, which never any more will be repeated... But the main thing to have time to be happy.

[Tamara]

Bobb,  Thank you for the link to the pictures. They are really beautiful.  I was away from the computer for the holidays, so just looked at them.  It really sounds like you are in a wonderful relationship, grow your love and understanding!

[ECOCKS]

Best of luck to you Bob.

Keep your hand on the railing in case you stumble on the stairs and don't hesitate to seek support.

Ed

[bobb]

I'm getting ready to return.  If I do a trip report it will be in trip reports sometime after I return.

This next Thursday I return.  I'm prepared for, but hope no delays or cancellations with flights.  That is the chance you take going through Chicago in January.  Although every flight has left for Moscow.  Many times late.  My theory is they wait for delayed flights arriving Chicago as this is the only flight on AA 5 days a week.  The only problem we might have is catching the train to Izhevsk on time.  We have 5 hours from my scheduled landing.  The latest the plane has landed in the past week was yesterday at 2:30 (2 hours 10 minutes late).  Depending upon how slow customs is it might be a close call.  The worst case in that scenario is we stay a night in Moscow.

I like to be somewhat prepared for the unexpected so I try to run through scenarios of flight problems.

I have talked with American and what they do if you miss their flight to Moscow, from Chicago, they put you on a Lufthansa flight, going through London, and arriving Moscow 1:30am - 13 hours later than the AA flight.  The worst case scenario would be if they don't even put you on the flight in San Francisco because of major weather delays in Chicago.  Then who knows when I would arrive.  Looking at the forecast next week for Chicago there are no expected major storms.  Cold - but that is no problem.  I'm not sure what they would have done yesterday.  Flight from SFO to Chicago was cancelled!  But the Moscow flight didn't leave Chicago until 2 and 1/2 hours late.  Flightview.com is an interesting website to use to track flights.  Their track flight live gives you a much better view of your international flights on globe projection and not Mercator. 

I really prefer, when leaving from SFO internationally, to not make layovers in the U.S.  At least northern city layovers in winter.  I chose this flight because it arrives in Moscow shortly after noon.  Ah well...let the adventure begin in five days.

We'll be back together again soon.  Meet her son and the rest of her 'family'.  I've talked briefly with her son on the phone a couple times, and during the holidays one night last week I talked with one brother and his wife.  They are all excited to meet me, as I am them.   

[Chicagoguy]

If I had started the K-1 when we first met I could have shaved 6 months off of the waiting.

You can always cancel half way through if necessary. As I understand it are no penalties for another application later.

[OlgaH]

If you would like to see my vision of Petersburg you can Click here! to see many of the places we saw during our walks.
You will only see photos of St Petersburg and none of us in this album. 

... we decided on St Petersburg as it would give us the opportunity to be together the entire time without any distractions.      

Bob, your photos reminded me the time that Robert and I spent in St Petersburg together and the main reason why we chose Petersburg for our meeting was the same  But distractions from my job were inevitable, sometimes they forgot we had difference in the time and I answered on the phone even at 6 AM. 

[Maxx2]

Congratulations Bobb on finding your new bride. Both of you seem like sensible mature people who deserve a second chance at happiness.

[TwoBitBandit]

If I had started the K-1 when we first met I could have shaved 6 months off of the waiting.

You can always cancel half way through if necessary. As I understand it are no penalties for another application later.

I'm far from the expert on this subject, but I think that if you file more than two requests for K-1 then you also have to obtain or apply for a variance... and with subsequent applications they may not grant you one.  However, I haven't read about anyone on these forums having their variance denied.

[groovlstk]

I'm far from the expert on this subject, but I think that if you file more than two requests for K-1 then you also have to obtain or apply for a variance... and with subsequent applications they may not grant you one.  However, I haven't read about anyone on these forums having their variance denied.

I wasn't going to comment on the same so as not to trespass on bobb's outstanding TR, but outside of the recklessness of proposing on a first visit, to submit a K1 with the thought that there's a good possibility that you may withdraw it before the visa is issued is more than a bit selfish. How many people who submitted their petitions in good faith will have to wait longer because of those who foolishly want to save $ or time by cutting corners?

[Daveman]

I wasn't going to comment on the same so as not to trespass on bobb's outstanding TR, but outside of the recklessness of proposing on a first visit, to submit a K1 with the thought that there's a good possibility that you may withdraw it before the visa is issued is more than a bit selfish. How many people who submitted their petitions in good faith will have to wait longer because of those who foolishly want to save $ or time by cutting corners?

I wonder how many have cluttered the system with filing and withdrawal and what effects such action has on the wait process for others.

I actually like the Canadian methodology that I saw posted in another thread of requiring a demonstrable relationship of at least on year prior to filing for for the visa.  That just makes so much more sense overall.  That in itself would eliminate at least 50-60% of the filings here in USA as most of these fragile long distance relationships end falling short of the year mark.  Would probably decrease wait periods down to 3-4 months again AND eliminate many of the goofy ass divorces between enemies who began marriage as strangers.

[Caddydaddy]

Hi Bobb,

Seems you found a gem, a Lady who knows what is important in life. Some learn it early, some later, some never, hehe.
I am not in your age range, but I found out pretty quickly that a huge age difference is not in any case advantageous, life experience, views and expectations may differ to much.

Sounds very good for you, yes, 2009 could be a very good year, also here. And if both are sure, why not?

Best,
Caddydaddy

[bobb]

I can understand many of the comments about too many people rushing to file K-1's.  As with everything in life there are no set rules in the 'game' of Love.  Some can be together 3 years, marry, and divorce in a year or two.  My twin sister and her husband were together for 7 or 8 years until they married and now have been happily married for 38 years.  And, others can meet and because of who they are and what they have experienced, can marry in 3 to 6 months and be happy forever.  Who is to say, really, what is the right way or the wrong way.  Whatever it is it will be different for all.   

As we age we are supposed to gain wisdom.  I would like to think I have gained a small amount with my past relationships and observations in life.  I have also always been conscious of thinking of the woman and being sure I was totally serious about her and sincerely feeling she had those same feelings towards me before beginning the K-1 visa process.  I understand fully what it is I've asked her to do by moving here.  Some/many/a lot/ (take your pick) of men, I feel, for many different reasons (mostly personalities) have not been introspective enough. 

I remember the old board several years ago and reading some comments stating they felt many woman would come here hoping she would fall in love with this man she had only recently met.  I was always determined to not feel that might be the case with a woman I hoped to meet. 

I will close with my feeling that if two people our ages can not see what is real or just imagination they might as well start pounding the nails in the coffin.          

[Diplomacy]

Bob:

I found it interesting, that you came to the same theory as I did.  The one thing I was sure of, was that I needed to see that there was genuine feeling towards me.  I would wait if need be, hoping to fall in love was not a strong basis for such an important decision.