Adultery & Divorce - Do Russian Women ever get deported?

[Maxx]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

I'm glad you think she might not pursue the DV route. If she was going to do that it would have been best from an evidence standpoint to do it while we still lived together - she didn't. Then again, I think she might eventually do that because it might be the only way for her to legally stay in the USA.

The problem is she could claim to the INS all kinds of things in her I-360 spousal abuse petition. Since you are not allowed to present your side, how would the INS know exactly what is what and that she is living with another man? In other words she can make up all sorts of lies to the INS and confuse the timeline. Mine it seemed from the divorce counter proposals tried to move up our separation from the 8th ( I filed on the 10th) to the 22nd of July '03. The 22nd was the day she filed for the temporary restraining order (TPO) with the help of the shelter. So you filed the divorce and had her process served to prove she knows about it right? Mine claimed she never knew about the divorce (I told her) when she filed the TPO. I would suggest you try and figure a convincing lie she can use and how she can gather "evidence" of abuse to support it. Then do you best to avoid helping her with this "evidence".

Elvira sounds like she was more monster than my RW was. So it must have been much more difficult for you. I had a good relationship with my RW until she found her new boyfriend. And even afterwards we had a civil relationship. Still, losing her takes a long time to get over - I think of her night and day, at work and at home and in bed. I should probably go thru the house and hide her remaining possessions, though I still think I'd think of her all the time.

I could not live at my apartment. I have a business and a comfy couch, TV, PC, internet and shower so I moved in there (here, as I write this). Too many reminders of her. Getting over a RW is tough. They get under one's skin more than plain Jane domestic women do. I think it is because we have them on our minds the whole time we are waiting for the visa. Then when they get here we become like fathers helping them adapt. The accent, the cute things they say, the strange things they do, their looks and so on make them difficult to get over.     

Finding a new girlfriend to replace her in my mind would help, though it's difficult.

She's not the type to provoke a physical confrontation, though desperate people do desperate things.

Keep this in mind for the next few (several?) months.

I still had feelings before she tried to blackmail me (even after the adultery). 

That is almost always the case with the good guys. You have to do the legal thing as you have done, but it shows you got a heart if you are sad while doing it.

Perhaps tomorrow you can tell us about how you met? What you ages are? How long did you know here before the proposal (1-2 weeks after the first meeting is not uncommon)? Did you see any clues in her behaviour that she would give you trouble? and so on. Many people wonder how we got ourselves in these messes :cool:

You seem to have as I did some recent previous marriage baggage. I was only officially divorced 10 days (two year separation and a 1 1/2 year long divorce) when I met my future ex-wife Elvira. I can't say I was thinking too clearly  !

Maxx

 

[Journeyman]

Gentlemen,

Time to ante up a little more mana for Maxx.

Journeyman

[jb]

He has been doing yeoman's service here, hasn't he?

[KenC]

Maxx is by far the best source of divorce/DV charge/deportation possibilities on any forum.  There was a time when I roundly criticized him for being consumed by his marriage break up and eventual divorce, but now his level headed advice is the best you can find.  I would take Maxx's advice over an attorney's when it came to a divorce from a RW.

A question keeps popping into my head while I read this thread.  Are RW of such low moral fiber that playing the DV card is just a casual ploy for them?  Not to derail this thread, I will start a new one in the experienced section.

KenC

[c5driver]

Hi Maxx,

I had a process server serve her the divorce petition - I have his proof of service. Also, she filed a response to my divorce petition and her boyfriend served me with it. This response has her signature. In the response she wrote the same date of separation as I did. So it would be impossible for her to rewrite the divorce timeline in family court (who knows what she could try in an I-360 filing though).

I have neighbors that could serve as witnesses to the fact that she's been living with my neighbor down the street for the last 3 months.

Yes, RW certainly get under our skin - they're hard to get over. She feels some guilt/shame over what she did and she'd try to find excuses to blame me for her adultery (women seem to do this a lot). I've come to accept that her adultery and the failure of the marriage was inevitable (she says she has no interest in being married, is completely selfish, wants to find richer men to be her sugar daddy, etc). She's pretty eratic in her thinking. Her 2 RW friends (who seem to influence her behavior) also cheat on their husbands. This makes me see that the breakup of the marriage was inevitable. A mutual friend of ours thinks that my RW is unhappy with her boyfriend and will leave him soon (though I can't see her leaving him until she finds another sugar daddy to support her and pay her legal bills because she won't get a job even though I got her a work permit). Our mutual friend grew up in eastern europe and knew many Russian women - she said that they were into adultery big time and made poor wives (very unstable women).

"we become like fathers helping them adapt. The accent, the cute things they say, the strange things they do, their looks and so on make them difficult to get over. " - this is absolutely true. I helped teach my RW English during the many phone calls we had while she waiting for her Visa. I spent a lot of time teaching her to drive (though RW are not good students (they argue with you when you try to teach them instead of learning) and she can't pass her driving test (she gets too nervous)).  I still want to call her and ask if she's OK, but I know that I can't do that because of the potential I-360 DV stuff (and because she'd probably just pressure me to help her get her GC again).

She's 22 and I'm 38. I was looking for someone older than her (most of the girls I wrote were 25-28). She was the youngest girl I wrote, but she seemed to be very honest and mature, and she said her mother married at 21 and was still married. In hindsight she was way too young (I should have looked for someone 30+). Then again, her RW friends are 25 and 28, and they cheat on their husbands too (one with a rich man older than her husband), so I'm not sure that age was a factor in that. Also, the neighbor she's living with now is 4 years older than I am (42), which I found strange (I didn't suspect she'd be interested in him because of his age or I would have tried to keep him away from her).

I think that whole question of marital fidelity has to do with morale values. Unfortunately all the RW that I know are only interested in GC and money. They hate their husbands, as my RW said. They really seem to lack morale values, so marrying them was a bad idea.

My divorce started in '97 and was final in 2000, so it really wasn't fresh baggage. For a long time after the divorce I enjoyed my freedom and really wasn't interested in marriage again. I started looking at RW in late 2003, long after the divorce.

Initially I wrote her as a friend and we had some really interesting emails. I trusted her more that other RW who wrote me because she didn't pretend to love in in the first emails like RW scammers would. I offered to try to get her a student Visa (not a K-1 visa) because I cared about her and wanted her to be able to come to America without the obligation to marry (I worried about shame marriages). Frankly I also did this because I didn't want her to marry me just for a GC. She said that she didn't want the student Visa, she loved me very much, and wanted to marry me. Unfortunately I think part of her reasoning was that the student Visa was temporary (and more difficult to obtain) and the K-1 permanent (but I think she could have stayed here on the student Visa with some creativity).

[Maxx]

I see that this thread can be a source of information for other guys who get themselves into these situations. This can become a referal thread. Here is the background information.

In 1986 Congress passed a law to deter widespread immigration related marriage fraud. 

  

Unfortunately some men used this 2 year INS conditional residency as a lever to abuse their wives and with the threat of deportation to silence them.

It was in 1989 that the INS made provisions that an immigrant wife (husbands too) could separate from an abusive spouse and still proceed towards citizenship. She would have to present her case to the local service center. Both she and her accused husband would interviewed. Their evidence would be received and a decision would be made as to the wife's immigration status. In 1996 all this changed.

Prior to this the V.A.W.A. act of 1994 was passed into law. This law made it very easy to prove abuse. In fact the burden of proof that abuse did not happen is placed on the accused. Also the defination of abuse is so broad that many marriages qualify as abusive in that emotional, pschological and verbal discomfort by the spouse can be interpreted as abuse. If a woman claims fear, even if it is irrational fear, it is considered abusive. Not providing credit cards or joint checking accounts can be considered controling, thus abusive and so on. 

In 1996 the INS set up with the Vermont Service Center (VSC) as the one central location that all abuse petitions are to be sent to and processed. Up until that time the local service centers handled these cases. It was at the local service center that both sides could be heard and from both sides that evidence could be recieved. Evidence that could prove the guilt or innocence of the accused or whether the marriage was bonifide or in good faith.

What the local servicer centers quickly found out was the Vermont Service Center did not interview the petitioner. It did not recieve evidence from both sides. It received evidence only from the petitioner. There was no provision to receive evidence from the accused. On the website from the VSC it says that any documentation sent without an appropiate INS petition form and the filing fee will be disposed of. So the accused can send to the VSC documents that prove fraud or deceit by the petitioner and the VSC will only shred them as they do not come with the appropiate petition and filing fee as there is none.    

 

The I-360 petition above is usually filled out with the aid of a woman's shelter's paralegal or an immigration attorney. It is sent with supporting documentation as is asked for in with the USCIS (INS) website instructional pages.

The immigration provisions of VAWA allow certain battered immigrants to file for immigration relief without the abuser's assistance or knowledge, in order to seek safety and independence from the abuser.

 

Q. Must the self-petitioner remain married to the abusive spouse until the self-petition is approved?
A. The regulations only require that the self-petitioning spouse be married at the time of filing. After the self-petition has been filed, legal termination of the marriage will not usually affect the self-petition, but you may want to seek advice from an immigration attorney or legal advocate. Statutory changes, effective October 28, 2000, allow for the marriage to have been terminated (there are some restrictions) within two years prior to the date of filing.

 

Notice C5driver she must file this before she can sign off on the divorce.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/battered.htm

Anyway instructions are given and the petitioner sends off this petition and it is processed within 3 weeks to get a temporary repreave from further INS hassels. 

If the Service makes a prima facie determination, the self-petitioner will receive a Notice of Prima Facie Determination valid for 150 days. The notice may be presented to state and federal agencies that provide public benefits.

 

With the "Notice of Prima Facie Determination" the petitioner can receive public benefits for food, shelter, medical, job training and job placement and so on.

The I-130 relative petition whom the husband may have withdrawn his support for is still processed at the Regional Service Center. When it has been processed, at the usual time frame for all these petitions, it is then that she gets her Legal Perminent Residency (LPR) or Green card. The approval of the I-360 will be finished at that time by the VSC or close to it. She will of course not have to meet any spousal requirements or even go through an interview as does other couples.

Also the application for US citizenship is processed at the rate of those for LPR spouses of US citizens. That is 3 year wait verses the normal 5 year wait. This is one more advantage of an I-360 spousal abuse petition verses a I-751 good faith attempt petition. 

When one takes all the above into consideration it is easy to believe what the INS adjudicator told me:

 

I asked one of the more senior adjudicators about VSC et al, and found out that VSC basically rolls over if -any- shred or indication of abuse is put in the file.  Sadly, the most flimsy of evidence grants them. 

When the VSC refuses to hear or receive evidence from the accused or to interview the petitioner it sends the message that they make on effort to be fair and balanced in their judgment.


Maxx

[Admin]

Damn Maxx,

I am SOOOOO sorry you had to learn so much about this shite.

The 'school of hard knocks' is definitely NOT the place to learn about this DV stuff.

So far, thank God (literally), the only abuse/DV stuff in my history is that which my ex has done, and continues to try to do, through the courts now.

- Dan

[Maxx]

Would you believe Dan that I am helping in one divorce, one annullment and one fiancee send back all at the same time? Sometimes I think this is my God given purpose in life.

Maxx

P.S. Sorry to hear about the ex giving you grief. Nobody takes what they say serious anyway  

[MandM]

Damn Maxx,

I am SOOOOO sorry you had to learn so much about this ****e.

The 'school of hard knocks' is definitely NOT the place to learn about this DV stuff.

So far, thank God (literally), the only abuse/DV stuff in my history is that which my ex has done, and continues to try to do, through the courts now.

- Dan

I agree with Dan, I feel so sorry for you, you know too much about this stuff, poor Maxxy... May be you should re-qualify as a lawyer?

Maxx, you are doing a great job helping other unlucky guys with your advice. I am corresponding with a guy from RWG, who is going through some s**** with his RW and I advised him to PM you. He's very grateful for your advice over the phone. You're a good lad, Maxx.

[Maxx]

That must be the annullment. He really is going through a nerve racking time right now. It will be interesting to see how it plays out with him. I hope he posts his story as I see him as the best example of a guy playing it smart.

Maxx  

[Admin]

P.S. Sorry to hear about the ex giving you grief. Nobody takes what they say serious anyway

4 attorneys - 2 contempt citations - 1 bench warrant - a lien - and countless formal motions later . . . . . I will find out next week if the court continues to believe my ex's fabrications, or if we have FINALLY managed to bring some sense to an otherwise insane judicial system. Note that I did NOT say "justice" system - because there is NO JUSTICE to be expected from our system.

The fundamental problem, like so many other aspects of American society, is the attempted emasculation of the American male by the feminists and by the political infrastructure leading to the courts.

When all is said and done, I will tell my story. It's just not quite time yet.

- Dan

[MandM]

That must be the annullment. He really is going through a nerve racking time right now. It will be interesting to see how it plays out with him. I hope he posts his story as I see him as the best example of a guy playing it smart.

Maxx  

Yep, thats the one. He is going through some rough time, and unfortunately he had some health problems recently, but it all looks hopeful. He seems to be a nice guy and I wish him well. He said he'd post his story as soon as the nightmare is over.

[Maxx]

unfortunately he had some health problems recently, but it all looks hopeful.

I hope it is not as a result of this situation. I would have to say that in such a stressful time having health problems is the norm.

[Maxx]

Top[/i] [/align]
post traumatic stress disorder[/i] (PTSD) and you should read up on the available information.'

2. If you have been falsely accused you almost certainly have some conditions related to PTSD.[/b]

Mistrust of women in general is a likely result and it will probably be difficult or impossible to form another stable heterosexual relationship.

Additional charges, such as driving under the influence (DUI), may arise out of these health and mental conditions, compounding an individual's problems.

The many hearings and trial will be emotionally and physically exhausting should you make the wise move of insisting on a trial. The medical terms for what you are going through include divorce-related depression, cognitive impairment, and an inability to concentrate.

[Maxx]

post traumatic stress disorder[/i] (PTSD) and you should read up on the available information.'

[Maxx]

I am having a heck of a time getting this to post. Here goes....

Secondary physical and mental health problems are almost certain

[align=right]1. Many, if not most men who go through the hell of being charged with domestic violence or abuse suffer a variety of health problems as a result of the strain. Such stress-induced diseases as heart attacks, asthma, arthritis, headaches, and vision problems are common, or exacerbated by the situation. The list is by no means inclusive. Sleeplessness is a virtual certainty. Alcohol, or other substance abuse may result from, or be worsened by, such charges. Mental aberrations may result either from stress, improper nutrition, or both. [/size][/font] [/align]

[/size][/font]When I read "vision problems" it reminded me about something that happened to me while I was going through my last few months of my marriage. My eyesight suddenly worsened. I needed very strong reading glasses. I had mucus forming on my eyes to the point I had people telling me to wash my eyes. Also I needed to have my prescription changed for my contact lenses to a much stronger one. After all stress went away so did the cloudy vision and need for strong reading glasses.
There were other symptoms I had as stated above. Sleeplessness being one of them. I got so I could not sleep for days and had to drink a rather large glass of alcohol  (I am not a drinker) and take a few over the counter sleeping pills to get to sleep.
I had taped one of my phone calls as is good practice to do when one is going through possible DV false charges. I listened to the tape and did not recognise my voice. It was very raspy and very deep.
So this does effect one physically. I hope Dan understands this as I do.
Maxx

[Todd]

I don't really have much to add to this thread other than to express my sympathies.  Having grown up in a constantly fracturing family, I can empathize.  Also, I think that you should avoid generalizing about RW's, and, if you must generalize, I would look at the age gropus rather than the nationality of the person. 

 

[Rando]

22 year old gal ....geesh go figure.

I have  read all this post and frankly I dony understand the problem....other than your feelings are really hurt (understandable) but why the keen interest in deporting her? Punishment?

Shes fighting divorce....on what grounds? On the grounds she needs to milk you for more or what? She abandoned your marriage to live with another man....what exactly are her grounds for a contested divorce? The is the craziest thing I have ever heard of...

I think what we are really talking about here is that you would like to exact reverge by having her deported when in fact everyone is telling you that is unlikely to happen...heck there are a couple of million illegals living in the country now and Bush wants to give them drivers lic...and they are fighting for state tutition costs for illegal childrens college. So can you imagine that INS cares about your marriage problems?

May I ask why you are ignoring an annulment based on marriage fraud...geesh this is a breeze to prove if your story is even 1/4 true. Annulment based on fraud!

Also why not tape your wife or her BF trying to bribe you into green card fraud...seems like there were a couple of opps to do that...one time you said about green card another when BF said something about fighting prenup...

Best advice ....get the low life AH's out of your life....stop moaning over the possibility of renewed relations with this girl....I read some sadness about missing her and how she seemed nice....she is a snake...she will always be a snake...Im sure you are missing the hot young bod....guess what....and even you know this ....girls like her are a dime a dozen....and heres something you may not know.....good, no great girls nothing like her are also a dime a dozen....you just need to choose more wisely next time.

Dont beat yourself up but dont ignore your mistake....get rid of her....annul her ass and move on....maybe move houses....she WILL NOT BE DEPORTED suck it up and move on...

Take your hard earned experience and go find yourself a suitable woman for your  age and situation. They are a dime a dozen over there ....but remember over here those dimes turn into $1000 bills...so be careful.

 

 

[Maxx]

Rando is being a bit harsh. He does have some good points. The annullment might work in Russia but here the courts would probably advise divorce. In Russia it's easier to get a cooperating court $$$ but I don't think they would get involved if you were married in the US. Better ask on that one. Taping a scam. I would advise using digital video with a certified time date. Try http://www.gotchanow.com/ If you get the goods then take a copy to the INS and mention you have some friends in the media who might like to feature a story on MOBs scamming AM. The INS does not get motivated to deport unless they want to avoid a scandle. That is why in my first post on this thread I mentioned a deportation of a RW who stabbed her husband. He wasn't serious hurt. In fact he plead with the INS to not deport her. The fool ended up following her to Russia and was/is going live there with her. Love conquers all... 

Maxx

 

[anono]

In fact he plead with the INS to not deport her. The fool ended up following her to Russia and was/is going live there with her. Love conquers all... 

when i read this, it makes me think of all the men who come here. we AM are so conditioned to think a nice attractive woman (oops, take away nice, they do not have to be nice as evidenced above)..maybe all they need is to be attractive and have sex with us in such a way that we feel we cannot live without them, that they are so rare, what are we going to do if they leave?

i think the same thing is going on with one week wonders. they meet the first attractive woman (and she doesn't even have to be attractive for some of the guys) that will have anything to do with them and they are "in love".

we are so conditioned that anything acceptable is so rare, we put up with unbelievable behavior.

here in ukraine good looking woman are a dime a dozen, and simply because of the numbers you'll find women interested in you.

so instead of putting up with bad behavior, you'll sooner or later learn to kick them out of your house and say "NEXT"!!!!!

[c5driver]

The USCIS Fraud Investigator called today.

She wanted to talk to me/get a sworn statement ASAP (ie tommorrow morning).

Then she will talk to my RW.

Apparently they do care when fraud is involved.

[Maxx]

On October 29th 2003 I had an ICE investigator call. I went down to the service center the next day. Was sworn in and questioned for 3 hours. However the ex filed an abuse petition and ICE got out of the way. If your wife does not have the protective umbrella of an abuse charge it could get hot for her.

You should be gathering documentation including printouts of e-mails with the time/date headers discussing the situation for evidence of marriage fraud. If you get enough evidence it makes the investigator's job easier and more likely a full investigation will be follow with a possible trial afterwards. 

Maxx

 

[c5driver]

Hi Maxx,

I think this is a USCIS investigator, not an ICE investigator (I think they're different depts in Homeland security). She asked me if I could give her a 1 hour sworn statement.

I doubt they've pursued the DV route yet because they were still trying to get me to go to her interview as of a week ago.

Perhaps my situation is different (better) because she's never made DV accusations against me (neither in family court nor criminally). The fact that I've not lived with her since July will (hopefully) make it difficult for her to go that route now. Of course, if she can make DV accusations without evidence (as stated in the womenslaw website) then DV could still happen.

She had a previous interview scheduled in August, but somehow she rescheduled it (perhaps she went to the interview and said that I was in Iraq or something). She told me at the time that her attorney lied for her. I'm wondering if they might catch her in fraud because of what she said in the August interview.

Obviously stopping your ICE investigation was terribly unjust. Such is our PC culture.

c5driver

[Maxx]

I.C.E. or Immigration Customs and Enforcement is the investigative and enforcement branch of the USCIS. Many times they share the same offices and they answer to the director of that "INS" service center. However you may have an adjudicator or investigator from the CIS taking your sworn statement. Gather your divorce filing documents, lists of her friends, e-mails discussing your situation, her address of her live-with boyfriend, phone numbers, copies of everything pertaining in the case and so on.

You case is simply this. You with good faith believed you had entered into a bona fide marriage. However your wife made no effort (if this is the truth) to build a relationship with you. She got a boyfriend soon after you were married. Together after consulting with an immigration attorney (do you know who?) they asked you to support your relative petition in exchange for a favorable divorce settlement.

Here is a link to a document that my first immigration prepared for me. You can read it and see what the legal concerns are both for the immigrant and the sponser. Namely you were unaware of this outcome while she was your fiancee and that you married her in good faith that she loved you and wanted to build a family and marriage. She on the other hand did not work on bonding a marriage with you

 http://tinypic.com/f07pd5.jpg

BTW as you may notice I had this document drafted after a visit to my attorney explaining the condition of my marriage. That visit was on April 23rd just 5 weeks after her arrival on March 15th '03. My divorce filing was July 10th of that year. I.C.E. had these documents and many others but an abuse petition by her trumped all...

Good luck and keep us posted

Maxx

 

 

 

[Bruno]

Maxx,

Your knowledge over Rw cannot be used by several people but your personal experience can help a lot these few who are living what you have personal know before...

Your information for C5driver are gold... thank to these forum, it seem that with time, we have specialist in several domain... The topic over GCG is already qualified for be a top topic but these, same if it it a personal case, it is already a great one... this thank to you...

Now, i have only a wish... that yourself find the real hapiness  ... and thank you for share your experience... GCG are not the majority but c5driver was the first who speak over his problem... be sure that more have interest in your post... they are only afraid to post their story...

Yep, guys... several time, i post rant against some... but i can reconize the value of a good poster here...