Concern about scam red flag

[Gator]

Meeting a RW in a thrid country is not as wacky of an idea as some of you think.  Sometimes the lady has too many meddliing family members or friends, and this is the best way to spend your time solely with her and not with any of them.  I did it with my last RW meeting (the Amsterdam trip, as some of you may remember).

I did not know you had experience with RW.  Obviously, your "last RW meeting" did not work, so what did you learn?  What is different about your Bishkek woman?   Was the "last RW meeting" your first?

[Misha]

So I need to see to it that I get the most bang for the buck here and not waste any of that money on women out to waste my time.

In your first post you write: "she is non-responsive to my personal questions." To be honest, you are already wasting your time. Establishing a relationship is all about communication and if she ignores your questions, you already have a communication problem before even meeting.

[Gator]

I am confused.

Some people think that meeting exclusively for a short time and proceeding further quickly is insanity.

Others swear by it as the way to go.

Your own experience should have removed any confusion.  I will repeat my analysis for those who indeed are confused.

In your dating life, how have you done with women who totally infatuated you after just a couple of dates?  Did the relationship progress into something special?  Recall that  you and your American date were on equal footing.   Now factor the implications for FSUW not being on equal footing.

I contend that true love takes time for which there is no substitute.  And why would you want to marry without true love?!

For sure there have been lasting marriages where the man proposed in the first week together.  KenC labeled these OWW or One Week Wonders.  I have met a few OWW couples.  One is clearly a happy couple with children.  In another, the two are still together after 8 years, yet the incompatibility is readily apparent, neither seems fulfilled, and neither has the energy to divorce.  Sad.

The only survey I have seen on OWW marriages was five years ago and it reported that the divorce rate is 90+ % (the survey seemed valid yet was never completed nor verified).

Yes, the potential reward of rapid success is wonderful; however, are the likely consequences of failure acceptable?  If yes, go for it, but don't complain if you are back to ground zero less some major bucks.

[Simoni]

I contend that true love takes time for which there is no substitute.  And why would you want to marry without true love?!

True statement, Gator.  And one that it appears many do not comprehend.  So time for a little dissertation...

Beware of RW who say they "love you" too quickly.  That will only come much later in a relationship.

Love for a RW is NOT the infatuation kind of "love" or teen-ager love.  It is deep and real and lasting.

That is why I constantly caution against one week wonders.  A RW can't possibly love you after one week, in the sense of what love means in the FSU.  And as Gator wrote "why would you want to marry without true love?!"

[ambach123]

I will give you another side.

The RW are as much or more worried about our legitimacy as we are worried about theirs.
It appears that WM have earned their reputations as " sex tourists "or " keyboard Romeos" with little real interest.

There are also rumors among them that that RW are " enslaved " after they enter USA by their husbands.

There are some basic precautions, most RW take.

1. They would ask you for your phone number and call you, on a land line to check you. They put the number through some data bank, or at least cofirm the location, just like we do.

2. They would ask you for your home address, to " send you a card ". I am sure this is not to send just a card.

3. They would ask you for your employment details, they must have ways to check into it, further.

I have come across these questions several times, whenever going beyond the initial stages.

I am not sure, a RW who is so inquisitive in verifying you is a good sign or a bad sign.

One thing for sure, these women are not dumb.

[Gator]

Ambach, how does what you just wrote relate to your "confusion" about OWW?

Yes, RW are checking men.  It is a good sign because it means she is serious about this endeavor.  Hopefully you have nothing to hide.

[Misha]

There are some basic precautions, most RW take.

1. They would ask you for your phone number and call you, on a land line to check you. They put the number through some data bank, or at least cofirm the location, just like we do.

2. They would ask you for your home address, to " send you a card ". I am sure this is not to send just a card.

This is advice that is given on the RW forums. With your name and address they can use google maps to see where you live and with your name and address they can run an online background check. This is the service that one woman on a RW forum recommended: http://www.intelius.com/.

The background check that Intelius provides will include when available: a criminal and sex offender check, lawsuits, judgments, liens, bankruptcies, home value & property ownership, address history, phone numbers, relatives & associates, neighbors, marriage/divorce records and more.

[ambach123]

You can argue that if she asks all these questions, she does not trust you; or may be she has heard less than complimentary things about WM looking for a woman in her country.

On this board we discuss how much difficult it is for us to trust RW, I think it is equally or more difficult for them to trust us.

I think mutual lack of trust is the biggest obstacle in this type of relationships

[Misha]

You can argue that if she asks all these questions, she does not trust you; or may be she has heard less than complimentary things about WM looking for a woman in her country.

On this board we discuss how much difficult it is for us to trust RW, I think it is equally or more difficult for them to trust us.

I think mutual lack of trust is the biggest obstacle in this type of relationships

As Russians love to say, trust but verify  :evil:

[Gator]

As Russians love to say, trust but verify  :evil:

And Ronald Reagan stole the phrase, turned around and used it on the Russians as well as in other places.

[ambach123]

I still have some concerns that obvious attempts to verify shows a lack of trust.
How would a RW feel if she knew that I went on detective work about her without telling her?

[Daveman]

I still have some concerns that obvious attempts to verify shows a lack of trust.
How would a RW feel if she knew that I went on detective work about her without telling her?

She'd probably be pissed, however, why do you care at this point? If she's *into you*, it won't matter in the big picture, and if she's not into you she'll rant and rave and try to make you feel like a traitor so you'll buy her a big gift to make up for it..  but, really... I know it's a wonderful dream to have this babe arrive at your door, but at worst you'll send money and never see her and at best she'll use you as a mule.  From what you've written so far, she just doesn't exhibit the behavior of an RW who is really into you.

Do you think that perhaps after she arrives that you'll win her heart?  What are your real expectations here?

[Misha]

I still have some concerns that obvious attempts to verify shows a lack of trust.
How would a RW feel if she knew that I went on detective work about her without telling her?

Well, in some ways, it is better for them to check up on the man, not like what they see, and move on, than to move to a new country and to be bitter and disappointed.

[Vaughn]

For the life of me, I cannot imagine establishing genuine trust with someone you've never met - and I mean
this goes BOTH ways. Hope, for sure. Trust? Get real. That comes later. Any sooner is simple delusion.

If Al_C moves on - and continues searching the FSU, I'm gonna recommend Kazan to him.

[Simoni]

I still have some concerns that obvious attempts to verify shows a lack of trust.
How would a RW feel if she knew that I went on detective work about her without telling her?

Let's make some assumptions.  First, that you know the girl and have spent some time with her.

When you spend time with her, you see where she lives and you meet her family.  And her friends, too.

Your verification comes as you come to know her.

I would not recommend anyone hire a detective to investigate an unknown girl.  Rather, you go and meet her and see for yourself.  But that leaves us with that last assumption:  You have not fallen in love with a picture.

[GoodOlBoy]

But that leaves us with that last assumption:  You have not fallen in love with a picture.

Ah Yes....That pesky RWD Commandment #6:

"Do not fall in love with photos!!"

That is the "other" Commandment that I broke. 

There should be an Eleventh Commandment: "Do not fall in Love with a sexy Russian voice!"


GOB

[Simoni]

There should be an Eleventh Commandment: "Do not fall in Love with a sexy Russian voice!"

Now that one would be virtually impossible to keep!    LOL

[jj]

My Marina always wanted me to come visit her, whenever I could with much anticipation .  After my first visit to meet her and her daughter, we longed to be together again, and it was so hard to say good bye at the airport  with each visit. We talked about what we wanted in a relationship on a personal level  both before and after we met.  Only after our first visit did I buy her plane tickets for her to meet me in Moscow for a visit, and later in Ukraine( she did not ask me to buy any tickets out of pride). She was eager to introduce me to her friends in Russia.  We both wanted to spend as much time together as possible.  It was such a great feeling to know we were into each other.  I still can't wait to get home from work now that she is my wife   So, I think if  you have doubts about this lady's intentions, it may be hard to know if she is "into you for a relationship".

[Al_C]

I did not know you had experience with RW.  Obviously, your "last RW meeting" did not work, so what did you learn?  What is different about your Bishkek woman?   Was the "last RW meeting" your first?

Yes, I do have experience.  Besides the Amsterdam trip, I was in Russia 3 times.  My first meeting was with a OWW, and it was almost a home run, only for me to be thrown out at the plate 3 days before her visa interview in Moscow.  Trips 2 and 3 were for a total of three women, and I was called out on strikes on all of them.  The Amsterdam one and I hit it off very well, but then she started to become pushy and demanding about a life together, wanting everything her way without regard to anything I wanted.  That one died a month before our planned second meeting, and that was the reason why.

I have no problem with a RW checking me out.  I generally invite them to do so and tell them that their investigator may contact me and will receive my full cooperation.  I want the RW who is interested in me to feel confident with me, and I have no problem with whatever it takes for her to get that confidence.

The background check site, www.intelius.com, is interesting, although not completely accurate.  I ran my own name, and it made several mistakes.  Overall accuracy was about 80%.

As for the Bishkek woman, the one who sparked this whole thread, I have determined that she is not a scammer.  The flower delivery was completed, so her address is good.   She still may be a user, and I am working on that one.  Once I have completed my investigation, I will take the appropriate action.  One thing for sure is that she will not be coming to NY next month on my dime.  But as long as there is a chance for a successful relationship here, I will not burn it.

I approached the EM administrators about my concerns with this woman, and they are pushing me to finger her.  I have not done so yet.  They assured me that they will not contact her and will not tell her that I fingered her, so I wonder what they want with the information.  Does anyone know?

[groovlstk]

This woman must have some phenomenally beautiful photos for you to go through all this trouble, since from what you've written there's nothing else there.

[Mishenka]

I still have some concerns that obvious attempts to verify shows a lack of trust.
How would a RW feel if she knew that I went on detective work about her without telling her?

The truth is, she will think you are as cleaver as she is. Do you think she is not checking you out and doing a complete background check? If not you are mistaken. She will know more about you than you know about her before she meets with you.

Mishenka

[Daveman]

Yes, I do have experience.  Besides the Amsterdam trip, I was in Russia 3 times.  My first meeting was with a OWW, and it was almost a home run, only for me to be thrown out at the plate 3 days before her visa interview in Moscow. 

So you have a history of jumping the gun a bit... firing your shots early taking the big risk.. slow down a little..  I think this venture is more about seed planting and growth rather than blitzkrieg.

Trips 2 and 3 were for a total of three women, and I was called out on strikes on all of them.  The Amsterdam one and I hit it off very well, but then she started to become pushy and demanding about a life together, wanting everything her way without regard to anything I wanted.  That one died a month before our planned second meeting, and that was the reason why.

So you've seen with your own eyes that this is not an easy fishing expedition to the trout pond.. this should give you a "step back, watch for clues" mentality.

... But as long as there is a chance for a successful relationship here, I will not burn it.

ask yourself what evidence, other than her sending a few photos and continuing to speak with you about mundane topics, do you have that this is a real possibility?  You have a phone pal and that's it.  Maybe you can forget the visa thing and insist on simply visiting her instead?  What's her problem with that?

I approached the EM administrators about my concerns with this woman, and they are pushing me to finger her.  I have not done so yet.  They assured me that they will not contact her and will not tell her that I fingered her, so I wonder what they want with the information.  Does anyone know?

Because she asked you for money which is an explicit violation of EM TOS... They want to know who she is so they can suspend her profile.  While EM does have a few questionable ladies, the site does suspend/remove profiles of ladies who obviously break the rules.

Don't look at her photos for about a week... stop superimposing that "Angel who will love me forever *if* ..."   think about what you really have with her...

Dave

[Gator]

Al_C,

Yes, you do have a lot of experience with multiple RW.  Thus, I am surprised that you are so enthusiastic about the Bishek woman. 

We are here to help, not criticize.  In that regard, I have two important questions.  You did not tell us what is different (from the other RW) about your Bishek woman.  Is there a difference?   Also, you have struck out 5 times.  Is there something common among the three?

I commend you for taking the correct step in not paying for her air flight.  If her interest is sincere, she will wait.  Perhaps it would be a good idea to meet her cousin so that her cousin could tell her more about you - it would be good or bad (which is also good as it would stop wasting your time with her).

If you fingered her, EM would remove her profile. 

[Al_C]

We are here to help, not criticize.  In that regard, I have two important questions.  You did not tell us what is different (from the other RW) about your Bishek woman.  Is there a difference?   Also, you have struck out 5 times.  Is there something common among the three?

If you fingered her, EM would remove her profile. 

I know you are here to help, and constructive criticism is part of that process.  Al of it is fine, and I appreciate your efforts.

What is there different abuot this woman?  Nothing.  Your point is well taken.

There is no common thread among the strikeouts.  They all failed for different reasons.    But I can't help thinking that the two that I made the most progress with failed because they would both be leaving large families behind, and neither of them could do it even though they had themselves convinced that they could.

[Ooooops]

Stepford wives are neither genuine or loving.  I don't get the connection between them.  Funny how you left out the key word...spend $10,000 searching to "FIND" a genuine loving FSUW. 

What I find funny is sticking a price tag to "a genuine loving FSUW"