TR: Barnaul/Tver, Russia

[GoodOlBoy]

The main problem I see with the trip report is the information it contained.

Jerry can go about his searching how he sees fit. When it is being written from a so called fantasy view and contains what I would call half truths is when creditability issues come into play. Then people can question everything he types.

I can smell it coming from my screen.

If this is such a serious site(?) I feel for some of the new men and women who read it and take it for the full truth.

SMS60 I am in full agreement with you brother.

I still can't put my finger on it but something was wrong with this TR report from the beginning (I smelled it also).

It's pure conjecture, but maybe somebody didn't get their RW "quota" (13+ women) from Tatiana, so this person may have decided to come to RWD and put the "bad mouth" on her and her agency? 

I do know one thing. It has been said by SEVERAL people on this forum that RUSSIAN PEARLS is an honest place to do business.

One disgruntled "customer" does not change this fact.

BTW....As a business owner and operator myself (for many years), I have turned down SEVERAL clients requests for different reasons and some for NO reason, other than it just didn't feel right for me to do what they wanted. As a business owner it is my prerogative.


Again.....Keep up the GOOD work Tatiana!


GOB

[Gator]

When it is being written from a so called fantasy veiw and contains what I would call half truths is when creditbility issues come into play.

Groundless accusation.  Complete nonsense.  The kind of comment made by someone who has never taken a trip.

All one can infer is that Jerry and Tatiana had a difference in opinion on how best to proceed.  

It would be interesting if Jerry and Tatiana had an opportunity to start over, and this time Tatiana assumes that Jerry is the customer.

[Faux Pas]

And after all these debates I come to conclusion that there may be only one issue – lack of communication and openness. I think that when people use the help of the agency they need to trust to the agency and be maximum open from both sides and say what they want or expect.

 but some men come several times to Barnaul to try to find that one and only woman and nobody has ever blamed us for their failure!

I am glad that many people try to see the other side of the coin.

I know that women who come to my agency are the most intelligent, beautiful, kind, sincere, family-oriented and even though Jerry asks everybody not to use the services of my agency,

Tatiana, I am relatively sure you get many that depend on you and your agency 100% but all men will not do this.  Do you not make provisions for those that do not?

I didn't read anywhere that Jerry blamed your agency for his failures. He was however, adamant that your agency did not provide what he paid you for. More damming to me is the accusation that you or one in your agency attempted to make a bad reflection on his character and intentions to ladies that were interested in Jerry. Do you have information that this may be true, other than he didn't follow 100% your guidance and take ladies to the mountain resort?

Many of us are still trying to see the other side of the coin. Some immediately jumped to your defense from their own snap judgements before you even posted on the forum. I was not one of them. Jerry has levied serious complaints against you and/or your agency and you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary.

Jerry did not ask anyone to not use your service. He merely pointed out his level of unsatisfactory service. I again wish to thank you for coming to the forum but I haven't seen you provide any direct evidence that Jerry experience was anything less that what he said.

[Faux Pas]

BTW....As a business owner and operator myself (for many years), I have turned down SEVERAL clients requests for different reasons and some for NO reason, other than it just didn't feel right for me to do what they wanted. As a business owner it is my prerogative.

GOB

Do you accept payment from these clients and then not perform the service?

[GoodOlBoy]

Do you accept payment from these clients and then not perform the service?

No Faux Pas.

I have never taken money from a customer and not delivered the goods (to the best of my ability).

But I have spent enough time in small claims court, on both ends of the stick (plaintiff/defendant) that I know you need a good WRITTEN contract between two parties.

And not just any written contract. The contract has to have specific details laid out in it. A good written contract leaves no room for any doubts.

Oral contracts are worth diddley squat. I believe that is what we have here between these two parties (Jerry/Tatiana). Not only that, but an oral contract with somebody from another country (Russia) that doesn't completely comprehend the English language and all of the nuances/lingo's we use in America. All I can say about oral contracts is "Caveat Emptor".

One time, in Virginia,  I walked into small claims court thinking I was going to get my money (judgement) and came out with egg on my face because this sleaze bag had some "friendly" lawyer that showed him how to break our written contract.

BTW....Simoni, this sleaze bag was a former Marine also.

Yeah, Semper Fi...Do or Die...Blah Blah Blah


GOB

[Diplomacy]

My read is this.

Lady calls Tatiana.  Lady asks what Tatiana feels about the relationship chances  with Jerry?  Tatiana says that Jerry is not "head over heels for her" at this point.  Jerry is a good person though, so the lady that called should see if anything develops.

So depending on how you view that conversation, is how you feel.

Jerry is serious about the pursuit.  Tatiana is looking for 2 people that can not stand the thought, of not being together every second of the day.  Jerry is not the type of person IMO, that is going to get caught up in the moment.

Conversations transpired, some of which only one side has had.  I would be willing to bet, that people that were successful with RP.  Hit it off fairly quickly and have been that way ever since. 

Tatiana clearly has discussed the angst and conversations, she has with women we are visiting.  Some women seek guidance on what is a good way to spend time with a WM in their city or at the resort.

Jerry said that RP was not a good fit for him, therefor the advice is only good for similar men. 

Why is this a situation where someone has to be bad?  If you are planning to marry a FSUW, then you better plan on having a whole lot of conversations close to this.  You have to take the time to try and understand what is really meant, and not take it at literal. 

There is often more than one good way to do something.  Work together to understand their environment and find best solutions for the both of you.  At the end of the day, pick your battles.  If you do not, then you are going to exhaust yourself with the stubborn nature of FSUW.  They will fight your way out of spite.

You need to decide if being right all the time, is better than being happy all the time.  Let time become your ally and let her come to terms with the American Perspective, on the flip side do the same thing with your coming to terms with the FSU perspective.   

[groovlstk]

If we're going to speculate, I'd say just the opposite. Most clients aren't like Jerry, most guys are compliant and trusting as puppydogs when an agency owner tells them they've matched x number of married couples and "know" the formula for success. There are more one-week-wonders in this industry than discriminating and careful men and women.

[Ade]

Jerry has levied serious complaints against you and/or your agency and you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary.

Uh, you want evidence? On an internet forum? I guess as Jerry levied the complaints he should be the first to provide "evidence"?

Seriously  Tatiana has said these things haven't happened. Jerry says they have. That's about as good as you're going to get.

[Simoni]

...There are more one-week-wonders in this industry than discriminating and careful men and women.

What I find strange about this thread and the "girlie men" comments,
is that someone like Jerry, a veteran who has the tenacity to hang in there and get it right, is tied to the stake and burned, while one week wonders are praised...

What is RWD coming to?

[Ade]

What I find strange about this thread and the "girlie men" comments,
is that someone like Jerry, a veteran who has the tenacity to hang in there and get it right, is tied to the stake and burned, while one week wonders are praised...

What is RWD coming to?

I honestly believe that guys that use terms such as "pussy-whipped" and "girlie men" have serious inferiority complexes and/or other personal issues. The fact that you use such terms and claim to be "well read" is just laughable. 

[Simoni]

I honestly believe that guys that use terms such as "pussy-whipped" and "girlie men" have serious inferiority complexes and/or other personal issues.

Whatever.

But it is more likely that guys like you (however you are termed) that attack men for dating numerous girls and take an agencies position over a veteran poster here are the ones with inferiority complexes...

[Ade]

Whatever.

But it is more likely that guys like you (however you are termed) that attack men for dating numerous girls and take an agencies position over a veteran poster here are the ones with inferiority complexes...

Actually, I took the neutral position and suggested that it was probably a misunderstanding between him and the agency.

The fact that I think his methodology isn't working for him is an entirely separate issue, and, FWIW, it's fairly self evident after so many trips, so many dates and several failed engagements; if it's not working it's time to fix something.

[Simoni]

...it's fairly self evident after so many trips, so many dates and several failed engagements; if it's not working it's time to fix something.

There is your value judgement. 

In reality, there is nothing wrong with multiple trips and meeting multiple girls. In fact, that is far superior to the inexperienced position/predicament  of a one trip wonder.

[GoodOlBoy]

 




GOB

[Ade]

There is your value judgement. 

In reality, there is nothing wrong with multiple trips and meeting multiple girls. In fact, that is far superior to the inexperienced position/predicament  of a one trip wonder.

"Value judgement"? You think so?  

I thought the whole point of him going there was to find someone that had the potential to be his wife. If, after all this time and effort, he hasn't then either he has been extremely unlucky or he's been doing something wrong, whether that is meeting the wrong women or whatever. If, on the other hand, his goal was to date as many women as he can, then of course he has been very successful.

[GoodOlBoy]

If, on the other hand, his goal was to date as many women as he can, then of course he has been very successful.

That is until he met Tatiana (Russian Pearls owner).

She put the KABOSH on his "activities".  :evil:


GOB

[Faux Pas]

Uh, you want evidence? On an internet forum? I guess as Jerry levied the complaints he should be the first to provide "evidence"?

Seriously  Tatiana has said these things haven't happened. Jerry says they have. That's about as good as you're going to get.

For one supposedly pasted with so many university accolades, you don't come off as too bright, do you? Narrow-minded and condescending is no substitute. Tatiana has yet to refute  and address directly, Jerry's assertions. Are you so consumed in yourself and being right that you cannot comprehend?

[Faux Pas]

What I find strange about this thread and the "girlie men" comments,
is that someone like Jerry, a veteran who has the tenacity to hang in there and get it right, is tied to the stake and burned, while one week wonders are praised...

What is RWD coming to?

Simoni,

I stated up thread IMO there are hundreds of roads to this destination. I honestly do not believe any of them to be the "high road". Jerry's trek is no more or no less superior than anyone else's. It is, what it is. The path he has chosen just as some one-week wonders choose another way. However, I don't agree with some of these posters trying to crucify him for his choices. More often it seems someone reads a TR, declares a bandwagon and others start jumping on without knowing any facts. I have no reason not to believe Jerry. He is a good member and his TR has stood up to intense scrutiny despite the back handed suspicions of other posters.

[Daveman]

If you check out the website, as well as the following video, everything you see about Russian Pearls is geared specifically for WMVO approach. The write to many, narrow down to your favorite and go visit her.  I think the meet many, spark interest, develop communication after concept is foreign to them.  Thus, it is very easy for me to believe that they told him it's "not the correct way".  Many Russian women here at RWD speak negatively of the VM approach because they just don't understand it. 

I think that side of it is pretty much instinctual.  Women are accustomed to having many suitors and choosing the Alpha Male (for them) in their eyes.  Competition with many other women goes against a gazillion years of learned behavior. 

Sooooooooo, while I'm not justifying anything, I think if we look at the big picture we can understand how Jerry's words make sense.  They just don't really get the VM idea.  They are, after all, Russian women who can be the most close minded and stubborn group on the planet. 

check it out:



While someone like myself who was a WMVO guy would fit in well with their approach (if I had chemistry with the one I chose after meeting)... someone like Jerry is an absolutely terrible match for this agency. 

Not trying to make excuses for anyone, just trying to provide and opinion on the vastly different expressions.

Richard's agency is just the opposite, from what I understand, he prefers guys to meet many women and develop relations later. So, of course Jerry fit right in there....

Bad match with RP is the bottom line I think.

Dave

[Simoni]

Simoni,

I stated up thread IMO there are hundreds of roads to this destination.

Oh, and I agree, too.  My posts elsewhere say that time and time again.  There are many good roads.  But my problem here is the "peanut gallery," as Tim360 described them, taking shots at Jerry for his path.

Now, I do reserve the right to caution men who are contacted by a woman, asked to meet at a neutral site, and then get engaged right away!  That, to me, is a problem.  Jerry's multiple trips are not a problem.

[Simoni]

If you check out the website, as well as the following video, everything you see about Russian Pearls is geared specifically for WMVO approach. The write to many, narrow down to your favorite and go visit her.  I think the meet many, spark interest, develop communication after concept is foreign to them.  Thus, it is very easy for me to believe that they told him it's "not the correct way".  Many Russian women here at RWD speak negatively of the VM approach because they just don't understand it. 

I think that side of it is pretty much instinctual.  Women are accustomed to having many suitors and choosing the Alpha Male (for them) in their eyes.  Competition with many other women goes against a gazillion years of learned behavior. 

Sooooooooo, while I'm not justifying anything, I think if we look at the big picture we can understand how Jerry's words make sense.  They just don't really get the VM idea.  They are, after all, Russian women who can be the most close minded and stubborn group on the planet. 

check it out:



While someone like myself who was a WMVO guy would fit in well with their approach (if I had chemistry with the one I chose after meeting)... someone like Jerry is an absolutely terrible match for this agency. 

Not trying to make excuses for anyone, just trying to provide and opinion on the vastly different expressions.

Richard's agency is just the opposite, from what I understand, he prefers guys to meet many women and develop relations later. So, of course Jerry fit right in there....

Bad match with RP is the bottom line I think.

Dave

Good post and excellent analysis, Dave!

[GoodOlBoy]

If you check out the website, as well as the following video, everything you see about Russian Pearls is geared specifically for WMVO approach. check it out:

Dave take a bow, you are truly "the man". 

The video you found of "Russian Pearls" only goes to reinforce what I already knew from reading Tatiana's post.

Russian Pearls is not some Russian McDonald's where you can walk in and order 15 or 20 Russian Women from their "menu".

NO, NO... it is a reputable and honest agency looking to "match" people together and not pick your wallet clean as others have suggested on this forum.

Hats off to you Tatiana and as I have said before, Keep Up The Good Work!


GOB

[Simoni]

Russian Pearls is not some Russian McDonald's where you can walk in and order 15 or 20 Russian Women from their "menu".  xxx  "menu."

Strange but true.  Their model is "here it is, take it!"

Or "here she is, take her!"   

To the mountains.  Come back three days later.

This model works with only a few girls.   Much more cost effective that way...

[Faux Pas]

Good post and excellent analysis, Dave!

Ditto! Dave does have a knack of breaking things down.

Simoni,
I think we are both preaching to the choir but, I would even caution your condemnation of the the neutral site one week wonders. Even some of those work. Sure they are completely against what we know as the more tried and proven way for success and against all odds as we know them.

Love at first sight, I have never believed in but some do. Women that would meet a man in a neutral site are not all pro-daters, scammers or GTGs. I was no one week wonder, more like a second trip 5-week wonder but, who is to say? I personally think for anyone to declare any method at all is the "wrong" (even though we disagree with it) way is a bit over the top. Sure we can recommend to the poster advice based on our knowledge but, that is all it is, advice. I realize I've rambled but hope it made some sense.

[OlgaH]

The fact that I think his methodology isn't working for him is an entirely separate issue, and, FWIW, it's fairly self evident after so many trips, so many dates and several failed engagements; if it's not working it's time to fix something.

SeriouslyJaded,

Maybe it is even not about his methodology...

In 2006 he wrote: "I'm kinda burned out on Ukraine" in 2009 he wrote: "I've been in contact with the one woman from Barnaul, but not sure where that will go, if anywhere. I went to Siberia with the hope that the folk might be a little different than they are in other parts of Russia... What I found in this Siberia... that people in Siberia were pretty much the same as they were everywhere else"
Plus take his trips to Belarus, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan and two petitions that were concealed by women...

And after all his conclusion is "It is my personal belief that I simply haven't gotten "lucky" yet"

Yes, in Minsk, Kiev, Tver, Barnaul and so on people are pretty much the same.

I don't think it is just about his methodology and luck, but most likely about him.