TR: Barnaul/Tver, Russia

[Simoni]

I'm not here to stroke my ego. I'm more of a private person. If I need to send my resume to someone let me know. I could put anything in my profile and you would not know if it contained the truth..................................

Mr. SMS  --Thanks for adding your "gender" to the profile you see by your name as you post.

Most of us posting here at RWD are anonymous.  That is fine.   

But just about everyone shares their martial status and # of trips to the fsu.  Just scan the posts and you will see that is true.  No one is asking for you name or location.  But if you have never been to the fsu (and this we don't know since you have yet to share it), it does pose a credibility problem when you give advise others.

[Vaughn]

The reason I post is because of the reputation the WM is getting. When clueless men travel abroad and act like "chumps" it makes it harder for the next man.

Clueless WM are unseasoned travelers, believe agency hype, envision their quest as a rescue mission, have
unreasonable expectations about the woman they seek, carefully calculate their return on investment, believe
that a K-1-less journey was a wasted effort, are willing to settle, believe this all can be accomplished on a
shoestring budget, have little or no interest in foreign language and fail to recognize knowledge of such as a benefit,
seek approval and validation for their own misguided notions - and then refuse to acknowledge constructive
criticism, after which they howl "Foul" when the clue bat comes down. Not necessarily all but some of these.

I fail to see any of these in Jerry. If the 20 trips bothers some, maybe they cannot deal with their own inability
to do the same. Or, they suffer from the "any woman will do" syndrome - and fail to realize it.

 

[Turboguy]

Lots of people would classify as clueless who dream of an FSU woman but I think most who hang out here and have made 20 trips are far from clueless.   I spent the early part of my search being clueless perhaps but most do learn from experience.

Personally the idea of spending two or three days shacking up in a resort with each person you might or might not have some interest in sounds more like sex tourism than seeking an FSU wife.  I have to commend Jerry for not liking that approach.  

[SMS60]

True, but it also requires the following as well:

1. Knowing what you are looking for in a future wife;
2. Knowing where and how to look;
3. Knowing when you found that person you were looking for and knowing that she is truly the one (many guys I would say fail at this step)
4. Knowing how to maintain the relationship once you have found the right person.

Vaughn

The above is what I feel Jerry lacks. It is more than being a traveler. You must have a good sense of yourself. This is what I mean by inner-self. This is with any relationship not just in the FSU.

I do question the 20 trips....................When you start to inflate yourself there are other problems. I think if he would brush his ego to the side and look for advice he would be successful.

Well anyways this is what I gather from his post other people see it different. Maybe he is playing all of us

[Vaughn]

I missed an important one, Turbo - and I think you'll agree that it's a difficult one to spot, for it's seldom admitted
and cannot easily be detected.

For divorced men, clulessness often manifests itself in believing that all his shortcomings will be overlooked
and accepted by a FSU lady. As if his own self-improvement is quite unnecessary. "She will be the answer
to all my problems" when in fact, she is likely to compound them...

Jerry, please forgive us for sidetracking your thread and TR.

SMS60, I feel Jerry has a very good sense of himself, and knows what he is looking for - and is big enough to
admit he hasn't found the chemistry yet. As for maintaining the relationship once he finds her, how can you feel
he will be lacking in that area? I don't get it at all. Another trait I don't sense is the ego you feel needs brushing
aside. One thing's for certain - we all read into TR's in many ways.

[Turboguy]

Personally I think there would be a lot more successes in this endeavor (by success I am refering to happy marriages not doing a K-1) if people took however many trips it took to really find the right person, 1-5-20-40.

I think many starting this journey go to the FSU and meet a woman who is attrative compared to the women he dated at home, has a nice trim body unlike the chubby ones at home, has a nice personality and seems intelligent and out comes the K-1 papers.

I respect someone who takes the time to find a woman who is right for him.  Not every woman is even though she might be beautiful and hot.  Jerry is smart and doing things right. 

[Misha]

'Point is that I don't lie and if a woman has asked me if I am meeting with other women and I am indeed doing that, I always say "yes", despite the advice of many agencies (including this one in Barnaul) to lie and say "no". 

Well, Kuna had an excellent point that brutal honesty is not necessarily the best option on a first date. The fact of the matter is that on the date you are meeting one woman: her and only her. If you fall madly in love with her and she with you, then presumably you won't be meeting any more woman. So, I would not say that it is a lie to say that you are meeting one woman and want to see whether it works out or not.

[Misha]

Some guys hit the bars (or other places) every weekend (52 times a year).....for much more than than "4 years".......lets see......52 x 4 = 208 visits.......

Presumably those guys were looking for something other than marriage and a committed relationship  

[GoodOlBoy]

I respect someone who takes the time to find a woman who is right for him.  Not every woman is even though she might be beautiful and hot.  Jerry is smart and doing things right. 

Hello Turboguy.

I understand what you are saying, But I disagree.

You can spend "years" searching for your "perfect" match and you know what...5 years later you wake up and find out the one thing that you have no control over PEOPLE CHANGE.

Over the years she will change and you will too.

Do not mistake perfection in matchmaking with something LONG TERM.

As we say in GoodOl' Virginia: "It ain't gonna happen my friend".

IMHO, if you don't go into this endeavor with "some" flexibility in your criteria, I predict failure in the future.


GOB

[groovlstk]

The reason I post is because of the reputation the WM is getting. When clueless men travel abroad and act like "chumps" it makes it harder for the next man.

This is my opinion

I don't see how Jerry behaved like a chump. If you mean he's dated and rejected many women, well that's life - dating is a contact sport. I don't think WM should go into this feeling an obligation to find a partner in x number of visits. Many guys here warn others against being one-week-wonders, is there also some predetermined limit on the number of trips a guy should make before pulling the trigger?

I get the gist of your post, though - that guys should have their act together and know what they want before they begin their search.

[Misha]

Personally I think there would be a lot more successes in this endeavor (by success I am refering to happy marriages not doing a K-1) if people took however many trips it took to really find the right person, 1-5-20-40.

It depends. There are two extremes. One is the OWW who will marry the first woman who smiles at him and will marry the first woman who is foolish enough to say yes. The other extreme would be the man who is looking for perfection and a woman that could not possible exist, and if she did exist and they had a date, she would likely not want him   For the second extreme, there inability to settle for any woman will be compounded by the addictive nature of online dating: there is always another woman who could be more attractive, more intriguing, ...

Ideally, you want to fit yourself somewhere between these two extremes. I had a long list of traits that my future wife had to have. My wife also had a list of traits that she was looking for in a man. She fit what I was looking for and I suited what she was looking for. Would I have been happier if I continued dating and met even more women on more trips? I have my doubts. Again, comes down to knowing what you want, being realistic and recognizing it when you find it

[UTRO]

Since I am the one who recommended RP to Jerry I probably should keep my mouth shut but having made more trips than Jerry. Hitting the 20 trip mark is not that hard.

Turbo, how many of your over 20 Trips were to see the same Woman again?

[av8or1]

Hi Y'all,

Wow!  I had no idea my TR would generate such a thread.  Interesting discussions however, so I will continue to participate.

First, thanks to Crazy Bear, Bruce, Vaughn, TurboGuy, Brainnai, Kuna, Simoni and others for their positive comments.  I appreciate you, not only because you said good things about me but because I know you too and feel the same about you.  It's good to have friends and it's good to have excellent relationships with those friends, even if you aren't able to stay in touch all of the time.  I am glad to "see" all of you again and even more glad to know that you are doing well.  Thanks so much again, I appreciate you.

To SMS60, Utrobina and others either past or present who want to question the validity of a man making 20+ trips to the FSU, I have taken no offense, no worries in this regard, no heat on that.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  In this case however, my reply to you is that you are making some assumptions that are negative in nature.  I'm not sure why you are making those assumptions, especially since you don't know me.  I could speculate but won't.  Also your math is a bit faulty, I think it was GOB who was calling it 4 years, but I don't recall now.

Anyway let me clear a few things up for y'all:

1) My first trip was in March 2004.  In a couple of months that will be 5 years not 4.

2) The overwhelming majority of my trips have been to see a single woman with whom I had exclusive relations.  When I am involved with a woman I try hard to maintain our connection to each other with phone calls, emails and visits whenever I can.  The aforementioned relationships didn't end up working out but that's the risk you take when dating someone, regardless if they are local or foreign.  I knew the risks when I began this endeavor and I have no big-picture type of complaints about how things have worked out for me.  It is my personal belief that I simply haven't gotten "lucky" yet.  However the importance of being married to one woman forever (fingers crossed) and creating a family with children based on the love and bond that she and I share is simply too important for me, so I cannot give up trying.  Thus my >>20 trips to the FSU.

3) The assumption that I don't date locally is incorrect.  The fact is that I do date locally but things haven't worked out in this regard either, for one reason or another.  What I read that IS correct is that I don't go to bars to meet women.  Never have, never will.  That's simply a personal preference that stems from my ultra-conservative personality.  That kinda thing can work for others and that's ok; it just doesn't work for me, that's all I'm saying.

4) I go for shorter periods of time simply because of the demands of my 9-5 job.  I get 1 month's vacation each year and I cannot be away for long periods of time, generally speaking.  Yes, I have spent a considerable amount of money during my time in this endeavor.  Why this is even being raised as an issue is beyond me.  I knew going in that this was going to be the case.  I didn't complain about it then and I'm not complaining about it now.  It is my personal opinion that I would have spent the same amount of money had I dated a woman locally and saw her much more often.  Ergo, I spent a lot in a short period of time versus smaller amounts more frequently.  In my mind, the difference is negligible.  YMMV.

5) Where and why SMS60 and others came to the conclusion that I don't know myself, what I want in a woman, where to look for that woman or how to maintain a relationship with that woman escapes my comprehension.  I'd attempt to address those issues if I understood your rationale, but I don't, so I won't.  All I can say is that I feel as though I know myself quite well.  That is just my opinion however.  I've always believed that a person can be measured by their friends and family.  I believe that "wealth" is best described in these terms, not in dollar figures.  And if the support shown (only) on RWD is any indication of that "wealth" then I must admit that I am touched because of their generosity and friendship.  I am grateful to them and I feel blessed to have them "in my life" so to speak.  Indeed, I feel "wealthy".  To me, this is also verification that in terms of who I am, I am doing "ok".  Thank y'all so much!

As for the rest of the list, I know what I want (and what I don't want) but I am somewhat flexible in this regard, meaning that I understand that noone gets everything they want in a partner.  Where/how to look?  Don't understand that one enough to even give a knee-jerk response.  Maintain my relationships?  I'll have to disagree with that one and not only because it's me we're talking about but because things happen that are beyond our control sometimes.  That is what has happened to me.  I was supposed to have been married to a woman from Tver by now; but hey, she betrayed me, married another man within a month and now sends me SMSs telling me how perfect I am and how big of a mistake she made and how she wants me back.  I just delete them without responding and am thankful that the Good Lord above helped me to dodge that bullet prior to actually "tying the knot".  I'm doing fine afterwards and am trying my best to find a woman who won't do such things, a woman of good character and morality, a woman who inspires me and a woman for whom I do those things in return.  In short, life happens, deal with it; I am.

6) Kuna.  Good post.  Sure, I am absolutely happy.  My life is great!  All I'm searching for is someone to create a family with because it is what I want from life.  That may not work for everyone, but it is what I want.  WRT your issue of being honest, well you too made a bit of an assumption, though on a much smaller scale than others have.  I don't just "blurt out" the truth.  I'll have to respectfully disagree with Ambach a bit, the question of whether or not I am seeing other women does not ALWAYS come up when I have met a girl.  In fact most of the time it doesn't.  When it does I first attempt to give a PC answer that is not a lie but that doesn't have the potential to make the woman feel uncomfortable.  I wouldn't want that for her.  It is ONLY WHEN SHE PUSHES THE ISSUE AND ASKS REPEATEDLY that I feel compelled to give the full and complete answer, which is a simple "yes".  I don't share any details about who, where, when, why, how it's going, anything like that.  No, that is private information between the woman in question and me.  Rather it is a simple "yes" and that's where it stops.  To me this IS respectful, courteous and genuine.  It IS the truth and if the woman has a problem with that, then she has a problem with that.  She is the one who pushed the question and in a way made me feel a tad uncomfortable for having to answer it.  As my mom always used to say "Don't ask a question if you are not prepared for the answer" ... and if a woman isn't prepared and asks anyway, well...that is what it is.  My gut feeling on this issue has always been, and is as I have already stated, that if she has that kind of reaction, we probably aren't compatible anyway, so in the big picture it's not a "loss".  In other words Ambach, if she ends our communication for this reason, then that is an acceptable result for me.  Perhaps it isn't for you or others, perhaps you'd prefer to tell a "little white lie" and that is ok for you.  I won't knock that either.  But it's not ok for me.  That's all I'm saying.  I hope everyone understands me now.

7) TurboGuy is exactly correct: in my opinion spending 24 hours a day with a woman after only a couple of meetings is more commensurate with a sex tour than what I was advocating.  When I told the agency that I didn't want to do that they became somewhat belligerent with me and refused to allow me to meet new women.  It was a shocker and something that I felt beared being made known on RWD so that other guys don't end up in the same situation.  'Just trying to help out, that's all.

SMS60, while I am open to advice from others, I (like most everyone) will filter said advice and only accept/follow that which makes sense to me.  So feel free to offer what you will, but that doesn't mean that I'll agree with you or follow your advice.  And I hope you can accept that without offense too.  And WRT the notion that I don't know myself or that I need help, I'll have to respectfully disagree.  I'm doing just fine, thank you.  I just haven't been blessed yet with the gift that others have.  However I will continue to try and as I have said repeatedly now, I hope that oneday I am as "lucky" or fortunate as they have been.

9) I've tried to go back in time and remember each trip to give y'all a more accurate number.  It's difficult for some reason, but as it stands now (meaning so far as I can remember) I've been to the FSU on 24 separate occasions.  I'd have to give that a margin of error of -2/+1.  Hope that helps.

10) Who said that I only use agencies?  Don't know why others on RWD have been trying to give me advice to avoid them in the future.  As I have already stated, I have met women through agencies, personal ads in the newspapers, personal ads on Internet dating websites (freepersonals, luckylovers, etc.) as well as RUSSIAN dating websites.  I have a contact in Volgograd who does those for me when I have used that vehicle.  I have also met women through more conventional channels such as friends of friends in the FSU.  I have even gone "hunting" or "fishing" as it's called on one occasion.  I have even approached FSU women on my own without the help/aid of an interpreter (you NEED EXPERIENCE TO DO THIS, I would definitely not recommend this unless you have considerable experience).  After doing all of this I am of the opinion that a man can meet both good and bad women and everything in between through any of the above methods.  This is why I still am open to the notion of agencies today.  It's simply NOT the ONLY method I use anymore, as it was when I first began back in 2004.  So let's put this one to bed too.  Some of you are very anti-agency and that's ok.  Let's agree to disagree and call it day.

11) I am clueless?  About what exactly?  Hmmmmm....interesting observation.  After >>20 trips?  Nah, I don't think so.  I may have different opinions than some, but that doesn't make me "clueless."  Often folk will make such remarks when someone doesn't agree with them or when they are working on insufficient data.  If it's the latter, my suggestion would be to try to reserve judgement until you know more.  Just something to consider.

12) I'm a "tourist looking for a good time"?  Wha-?  Where do y'all come up with this stuff?  <sigh>  No, I'll have to respectfully disagree with that one too.  I have two NOA2s to validate my assertion regarding this issue as well.

13) Some RW, like some AW need immediate exclusivity while others need a little more time.  It is my experience that it varies too widely as to be able to say RW want immediate exclusive relations whereas AW don't.  But that's just my opinion; I simply have not observed that in my travels, that's all.

Ok.......it's way after my lunch break.  I guess I got on a roll didn't I?  Hahahaha! ;-)  Sorry for the novel, just trying to address some issues not to defend myself but more so because they are interesting discussion items and my hope in posting such a long reply is that I can help someone who is new to this process, either now or at some point in the future.  It would have been nice to have RWD when I began!  So...I hope this helps you.

Y'all have a good day.  Best to everyone!

Jerry

[Diplomacy]

I wish the best of luck to you Jerry, I am glad to see someone that knows what they are looking for and is willing to do what it takes to achieve that goal. 

[Turboguy]

It depends. There are two extremes. One is the OWW who will marry the first woman who smiles at him and will marry the first woman who is foolish enough to say yes. The other extreme would be the man who is looking for perfection and a woman that could not possible exist,

Good point Misha.   I don't think Jerry is looking for perfection and I sure know I wasn't.   As far as the fixed flexability no one could be more open minded than I was.   I had gals that I had interest in who were 4'10 and ones who were 6'6'.  I considered gals that would blow away in the wind and some built like AW.   I had gals I was interested in who had no kids and one who had 5 (two were her sisters who died in an accident).  I met some very beautiful women and some who were not.  One of the ones I liked the most was not particularly attractive but had a lot of inner beauty.   

Turbo, how many of your over 20 Trips were to see the same Woman again?

Quite a few probably.  I made wasted trips to spend more time with some I met on the tours made 4 or 5 trips with my first fiancee and saw my wife frequently when we were in the getting to know each other to waiting for the visa stage.   

[tim 360]

Hey Jerry,  Thanks for taking the time to post your trip report and I do wish you good luck in the future.  It seems to me your methods are working fine for you and the type of wife you are seeking.  Some things are harder to find than others.  It appears to me your head is screwed on properly and you DO know exactly what you are doing and are not in a big rush.  I don't know if you are looking for perfection, as someone mentioned,  but I tend to think you have set a high criteria for a wife and I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Getting married is the easy part, staying married is...Cheers, tim360

[av8or1]

Hey Jerry,  Thanks for taking the time to post your trip report and I do wish you good luck in the future.  It seems to me your methods are working fine for you and the type of wife you are seeking.  Some things are harder to find than others.  It appears to me your head is screwed on properly and you DO know exactly what you are doing and are not in a big rush.  I don't know if you are looking for perfection, as someone mentioned,  but I tend to think you have set a high criteria for a wife and I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Getting married is the easy part, staying married is...Cheers, tim360

Hey Tim!

Good to see you also, glad you are well too.  Looking for perfection?  Alas no, that is not me.  Gang it's really simple: all I look for is a woman with whom "things click" for BOTH of us.  We are mutually "into each other" and want to develop our relations together.  If those of you who are making all of this fuss would sit back and think for a minute, the reality is that most of the time this does NOT happen when two people meet in a "dating situation", regardless of what country they originate.  This axiom has held true for me as well: most of the time things just don't click, despite the fact that the woman may be stunningly beautiful or rather plain, have an education or work in a factory.  And it is this that I search for, not "perfection".

Which leads me to one other point: there seems to be this underlying belief that I feel when I read everyone's responses to the various posts in this thread that it was me who turned down lots and lotsa women because I am searching for this "perfection" deal.  Hah!  As if.  No, the reality is that I have been turned down by RW about as much as I have turned them down.  This is a further example of my previous point about dating in general: most of the time you don't click AS A COUPLE, where "click as a couple" means that you are BOTH MUTUALLY interested in each other.  What usually happens is that those who you are interested in aren't interested in you or vice-versa, or you're both not interested in each other.  In pure statistical terms based on a one-variable profile you've got a 1-in-4 chance of this both-mutually-interested thing happening.  Then when you expand the profile to include other "real life" variables, the percentage of success decreases significantly from that 25% to a much lower number.  Only rarely is there a mutual, genuine sincere interest.  It seems obvious to me but I'll state it anyway: this reality cannot be altered simply by the fact that one person has spent a significant amount of time, money and energy to travel halfway around the planet to meet the other person.  Either you're into someone or you're not; it's usually that simple.  There are exceptions, yes, but usually this is the case.  So in simple terms, you cannot go there and think "...how is it possible that she does not like me?  I came all of this way to meet her and then she turns me down?"  You will be tempted to think this, but unfortunately two things are working against you.  One is the aforementioned statistical-probability-not-being-in-your-favor issue and the other is the fact that most of the women will not be fully aware of what is required for you to arrive and meet them in their own backyard.  And even if she did understand your effort, it shouldn't be a part of her equation as to whether or not she's into you, at least not significantly so.  But that's another can-o-worms that I'll save for another thread.  'Point is that for reasons I cannot understand many of you who have posted on this thread seem to have lost sight of this basic fundamental tenet of the process of natural selection.  And that is that the odds are against you from the get-go; it's not something that can be changed, though you can eliminate some of those "real world" variables in the statistical profile by putting your best foot forward (ergo, dressing well, being clean-shaven, look like you had a shower within a couple of days, have your A-game working, not be a "loser", etc.).  These odds cannot be improved by the fact that you have put forth so much effort and spent so much money, despite how much you would like for this to be the case.  I mean some of you seem to think/believe (key word == "seem") that just by going across the Atlantic your odds improve dramatically from what they are here.  This is a sure sign of vanity in my mind.  There may have been a day back in the 90's and early 00's when this was the case, but no more.  RW have so many more options now and most do NOT want to leave their native country.  I have definitely noticed that in my experience, no doubt about it.

So anyway...it's of little surprise, to me at least, that I am still searching after 20+ trips.  And dating locally.  Remember that I thought I had found my match twice now, but it blew up in my face for reasons I cannot control.  That's called "life", but I digress.  I'm starting to write another novel.....

Finally, It's the newbies who go over thinking that they can wave a little blue booklet that says "US Passport" on the cover, flash some cash and then subsequently walk away with a supermodel type chosen from a long lineup that cause me concern.  I am certainly not one of them.  'Never have been.

Ok, just more thoughts that came to mind, thought I'd share.

Best,

Jerry

[Misha]

I do agree with you. However, looking back at my experience, I have to say that I worked to hone my dating skills and tried different strategies. At first, I corresponded a long time with one woman, then realized that is a failure if she is not into you. Then, I shifted my strategy to what I would call serial dating. Simply put, I tried to learn from my mistakes and adjusted my strategy. I also learned more about myself and what was important to me.

[av8or1]

Hey Misha,

Yeah I agree with the notion of the evolution of strategies in all endeavors, including dating.  It's mystifying to me how some on RWD think I haven't done that, but hey, to each his own.  I will say that my technique, approach, beliefs and experience/understanding of this process has greatly evolved in the ~5 years I've been at it.  And then some!  What is important to me hasn't really changed though, I must admit.  I've always wanted the family deal and I've wanted it with a woman where there was a mutual interest from the very start ("clicking from the beginning" as a friend calls it).  I've been open to trying to date women with whom that wasn't the case to see if it would come with time, but usually that doesn't bear fruit.

But now we're getting into an issue of technique so I'll stop there.  Thanks for the feedback.

Best,

Jerry

[Gator]

Jerry,

1.  You are not clueless about travel and RW.

2.  You have used many different approaches, far more than most men use.

3.  Your family goals are consistent with the goals of almost every RW I met.

4.  The Internet means that you can screen potential dates according to age, education, children, hobbies, etc. or whatever you feel are important compatibility factors.

5.  You have made many trips over 5 years, meaning that you are following the Law of More.


Before learning the above about you, I thought you were not serious.  Now it makes your lack of success an even larger enigma.

Yes, I can understand that times have changed from my first trip in 2002.

Yes, I can understand being especially careful because of the potential need for a variance considering your two NOA2.

Yes, I can understand some important compatibility factors can not be ascertained except with face time, e. g. SOH and values such as honesty.

 
Can you write a one-sentence guess, without using the word "luck," for why none of the wells you have drilled have hit oil?

I commend you for your perseverance.  That is a valuable quality to possess if and when you do marry a RW.

[Misha]

I've always wanted the family deal and I've wanted it with a woman where there was a mutual interest from the very start ("clicking from the beginning" as a friend calls it).  I've been open to trying to date women with whom that wasn't the case to see if it would come with time, but usually that doesn't bear fruit.

I am curious as to how you define mutual interest. Do you mean attraction or something else?

[CaptB]

Misha.....and others,

My Analogy using "hit the bars" seemed to bring small (-) comment. What was missed....right after the word "bars" was (other places). I am not a drinker....and shortly after after my divorce realized the chance of finding someone there....was remote. Pool, karoke, socializing.....yes......."partner location".....no. As to "other places".......grocery store, laundromat, library, art exhibit, hiking, biking, hang-gliding,
boating, lecture, concert, bookstore, introduction by friends and family, pow wow, mall, UP 200 Dogsled Race, university, college, PTO..........and many more. This is my personal list (with a few dozen ommisions). My original point was......many spend an awful lot of time at this endeavor......right in their own back-yard.......and not finding that special person.

20 trips in the greater scheme of things......insignificant. Jerry seems to know what he is looking for. No "back slapping" here. For those who have spent a significant amount of "years".......even looking in their own backyard......BUT.....think that looking overseas should be some sort of "shortcut"............its not. Yes......you can find someone in a short time......get engaged......K-1......and voila......she is here......in the US (OR OTHER  )...........will get back to you in a few years and see how things are going. Maybe you will still be on your honeymoon.......or watching "Birthday Girl".......and thinking...."what a lucky chap" (no I am not from the UK......just sounded better  )

Some folks here seem to imply that because of the "higher financial ivestment"....it just "should" happen in a shorter time. I Jerry's case......he seems to have the finances.....so they really don't enter into the equation. I am not a rich person.....but finances were never in "my" equation......either. Lots of good folks here are happily married after many trips.......most somewhere in the middle.......and even a few "successful (ie happily married) one-week wonders. I know its a shock to newbies........but there is no guantee........in "what" category you will ultimately find yourself in. Hopefully you will never let finances.....or number of trips.....cloud your judgement.

Good luck Jerry.....and all


Capt B

[Misha]

CaptB, I have to ask. What is it with all the periods/ellipses?

[CaptB]

Misha,

You may ask.......as many before you.......but I may never tell 
Actually it is just my "style".......don't know when it started. Hopefully
it is not a distraction......for thoughts expressed.


Capt B

[Kuna]

Misha.....and others,

My Analogy using "hit the bars" seemed to bring small (-) comment. What was missed....right after the word "bars" was (other places). I am not a drinker....and shortly after after my divorce realized the chance of finding someone there....was remote. Pool, karoke, socializing.....yes......."partner location".....no. As to "other places".......grocery store, laundromat, library, art exhibit, hiking, biking, hang-gliding,
boating, lecture, concert, bookstore, introduction by friends and family, pow wow, mall, UP 200 Dogsled Race, university, college, PTO..........and many more. This is my personal list (with a few dozen ommisions). My original point was......many spend an awful lot of time at this endeavor......right in their own back-yard.......and not finding that special person.

20 trips in the greater scheme of things......insignificant. Jerry seems to know what he is looking for. No "back slapping" here. For those who have spent a significant amount of "years".......even looking in their own backyard......BUT.....think that looking overseas should be some sort of "shortcut"............its not. Yes......you can find someone in a short time......get engaged......K-1......and voila......she is here......in the US (OR OTHER  )...........will get back to you in a few years and see how things are going. Maybe you will still be on your honeymoon.......or watching "Birthday Girl".......and thinking...."what a lucky chap" (no I am not from the UK......just sounded better  )

Some folks here seem to imply that because of the "higher financial ivestment"....it just "should" happen in a shorter time. I Jerry's case......he seems to have the finances.....so they really don't enter into the equation. I am not a rich person.....but finances were never in "my" equation......either. Lots of good folks here are happily married after many trips.......most somewhere in the middle.......and even a few "successful (ie happily married) one-week wonders. I know its a shock to newbies........but there is no guantee........in "what" category you will ultimately find yourself in. Hopefully you will never let finances.....or number of trips.....cloud your judgement.

Good luck Jerry.....and all


Capt B

Hey CaptB.... I've missed that writing style....  I remember when I first joined RWD you'd post in here and... well...  what do you know...  everytime I read it I felt like I was having a long relaxed chat with a friend...  a real friend who had time to... well... you know... talk!

;-)

Keep posting please, in any form.  I always see the wisdom in your ideas!

Kuna