TR: Barnaul/Tver, Russia

[Daveman]

I agree but the point I am making is maybe it would be an idea if Jerry revaluated his own comfort zone because it sure looks to me like he's getting nowhere fast (or very slowly) using his current one. That’s not flaming, torching or anything else to do with fire.   Just an opinion.

Well, this has been a theme throughout the thread.  Some have said it with clue bat force, and others have used tact and subtle hints.  But here's the question I have, do you guys really believe that Jerry isn't doing exactly this?  

I don't buy it for a minute. He might not say in open forum "hey, I'm thinking about this and reevaluating my position, giving serious contemplation as to how I might improve my chances in the future..." ???  ???   If he's not, then he's an idiot and beyond hope or reason.  He posted a trip report and then some follow ups.  It's easy to see the reflection between the lines for anyone astute enough to fathom it.  I'm sure spilling his thoughts about different aspects was not only cathartic but a migration to self analysis as well.  (so much for not being armchair psychologists.. heh).

If I'm mistaken, so be it.  There is always a first time to be wrong...      

[OlgaH]

OlgaH,

My RW (Marina) said the same EXACT two words (not serious) in her description of this thread about dating 13 or more women on one trip to Russia.

GOB

GoodOlBoy,

If I were, for example, a "#153 - February 12, 2006" in a man's list I really would like to know why no "click" happened with a "#152 - February 11, 2006", "#151 - February 10, 2006" and so on... just to draw my own conclusion if I can do "click" with that man   

BC made a good point 

I cringe when I hear 'well over 20 trips'..

Maybe your criteria needs review?

[felix8787]

They one thing I have learned from this trip report. Creating a trip report it not worth the flack you get from the peanut gallery at RWD.

HiTech

Thats funny, because my last TR, I got flack for taking to long on getting out the TR. 

[acrzybear]

Thats funny, because my last TR, I got flack for taking to long on getting out the TR. 

Some of the folks here will snipe you no matter what you do. 

[felix8787]

Some of the folks here will snipe you no matter what you do. 

 

I have thick skin crzybear. LOL But I swear the next one will have to be done in 1 day because after that, I'm gone for 6 to 7 months.

felix8787

[Makkin]

  Nice weapon indeed..lol...I think I know that coil action "sweet pea" very well..lol


  Simioni,


   Semper Fi.....Your correct.

Makkin

[tim 360]

Nice pic crzybear.  21 pages of this should be enuf.  Jerry takes the time to post a trip report and the flack is silly.  All you expertexperts do is discourage others from ever posting anything. 

[Simoni]

Nice pic crzybear.  21 pages of this should be enuf.  Jerry takes the time to post a trip report and the flack is silly.  All you expertexperts do is discourage others from ever posting anything. 

Exactly, Tim, exactly.

[OlgaH]

Some guys have this ALL wrong.  It is just a date, like at home. 

Like at home? When I had a date with a man, I never planed any other dates with other men... neither during the same day nor  the next day and even the next month. Probably because I never had "scheduled" men in my life to check or compare "compatibility" or "clicks"   

[Simoni]

Like at home? When I had a date with a man, I never planed any other dates with other men... neither during the same day nor  the next day and even the next month.

I suppose that is the difference between male and female?  When I was single, I often had a couple of dates a week with different women.   Personally, I enjoyed talking with dates and enjoying dinner or a movie.    I suppose some are more "people persons" than others?

[OlgaH]

I suppose that is the difference between male and female?  When I was single, I often had a couple of dates a week with different women.   Personally, I enjoyed talking with dates and enjoying dinner or a movie.    I suppose some are more "people persons" than others?

Because of it I'm a happy woman marred Robert  I was not just a one of his "week scheduled dates" and he was not a simply "scheduled" man

[Simoni]

SIMONI,

I know I am going to be sorry for asking this question, BUT, what do you do with the other 12 RW that are waiting for you?

How do you politely "drop" all 12 of them?

Good question, GOB.  I'm glad you asked; it shows some confusion about what I mean about meeting multiple women on a trip.

The short answer is that I did not have 12 dates scheduled, so I did not have to break 12 dates.

Here is what I did on a couple of VM (visit many) trips.

I would pick out a good agency (one recommended by RWD members) in a big city.   I would go through their data base, and make a list of girls who had interesting profiles that I might like to meet.   I'd write 3 or 4 girls, and if that worked out, I'd tell them I might be visiting their city and would like to meet them.   

When arriving, I'd call them and say I was in town and could we have dinner?  After these dates with girls I had exchanged a few letters with, I'd go to the agency and ask them to set up a couple of more dates for the next day, usually lunch and dinner.

Within 10 days, I would meet a dozen girls or so.  On my last trip, I only met 6 girls or so because I met one girl I wanted to spend more time with, and I did.

So you see, you plan the next day the day before, allowing yourself flexibility.

In my 20 something trips, I did a little bit of everything.  I stared off as a WOVO guy.  Then I moved to WOVO with backup.   The last three trips were VM trips, with meetings with about a dozen girls each time.

I always learned a lot through dating.  I learned about FSU life, including culture, food, and perspectives.  I became very comfortable in the dating scene.   I learned what I wanted in a partner, and what I did not want.    Looking back, I'm glad I had those experiences.  It makes me very secure and happy in the marriage I am in.  I will never wonder, what if....?

[Daveman]

Heh, my only real question is.... where the heck is Eduard???  He would have saved the trip! He wouldda whupped RP into shape with Russian speznatz blather tactics, saved a babushka from a speeding truck, wrestled the creature in Lake Baikal, used the carcass to ward off the angry bears (at an 8-1 ratio of course), AND found a great woman behind the dumpster where no one dared to look, and .........

Oooops, sorry, I shouldn't have said that..... it was an Eduardian slip!   

[UTRO]

Nice pic crzybear.  21 pages of this should be enuf.  Jerry takes the time to post a trip report and the flack is silly.  All you expertexperts do is discourage others from ever posting anything. 

lol!!! I'd been thinking for the last couple of weeks how boring RWD was getting, mainly due to there not being many new Trip Reports.... Then along came Jerry 

[SANDRO43]

The Forensic Tripopathologists NEVER rest .

[av8or1]

Hey Gang,

How's everyone doing?  Sorry I haven't been online lately, too much going on between work and real-life stuff.  However, I thought I would make one final reply to this thread.  This will be my last word on the subject, as I have found many of the replies taxing.  Not because they represented differing views, but because they were personal attacks that offered little in the way of help.  Which was what I was attempting to do, to help.

I won't bother attempting to convince anyone of anything.  That was not my purpose ever.  I only posted MY EXPERIENCE with Russian Pearls and my opinion of their services; I then made a recommendation to avoid them based on my experience.  And that's that.  I've read Tatiana's replies to everything I have stated in my posts.  Amazing.  I'll leave it at that.

As for the general issue of meeting several women, wow, many of you guys think that this method is a bad thing and "not serious."  Whatever.  The reality was and is that, like other trips, there were about the same number of women who weren't interested in me as there were women who I wasn't interested in.  However the men in this thread, like always, come to the defense of the women, saying that the guy (me in this case) is to blame and that I am "bad" and "not serious" because I met so many women.  Sheesh.  Yeah right, whatever.  It is a different approach and like Tatiana, you're being critical of something you don't agree with, going so far as to say that it's not the "correct way" of meeting a woman.  What arrogance.  It's a narrow-minded point of view, but ... your choice.  I'll stop there.

Sorry, I am just not too patient with people who are intolerant of other people's points of view, regardless of context (ergo FSU relations, politics, etc.).  Tatiana is such a person unfortunately, despite what she has said here.  I don't mean to sound harsh in this final reply, I just wish that more people weren't so closed-minded...

I AM serious.  As I've said, I have 2 NOA 2s that say otherwise.  Of course I didn't cancel either of them, such a notion is crazy in my mind.  I do my thinking beforehand and once I make a decision, I stick with it.  I'll leave it at that.

Gator, others, I have no vested interest in posting my comments in this TR, so what are you talking about?  Dunno, but I find it annoying.  Eh, whatever; you can say what you wish.  I am only trying to help others in the future, whereas Tatiana is defending a business.  You do the math.  And I'll leave that at that.

I have a thick skin, sure enough, but will definitely reconsider posting future TRs, but only because of the personal attacks that result.  Someone expressing a different opinion is fine, but to criticize me because I take a different approach than you is simply ridiculous.  It does NOT make me "not serious", it does NOT make me "not a good man" or any of the other tripe that has been offered here.  It's simply a different approach and that's all it is.  Folk like Tatiana who don't support approaches that are different from hers don't bother me so much, let them say what they want.  I'll leave it at that.

As for the rest of you, some people are pre-disposed to believe things one way or another, that is to side with one party or another, regardless of what they are told.  So I'm not too bothered about who believes what...the last thing I'll ever do in this world is engage in a he-said-she-said kind of debate.  That's a no-win situation, especially with someone like Tatiana.  If a man is looking back on this thread in the future, he has the content in the posts to refer to, he can draw what conclusions he will and he may "believe" who he wants.  Whatever anyone reading this thread in the future decides, I hope it works out for ya...

I will end with one last statement: Tatiana provided an inferior product.  She did not provide the support and services that I paid for.  She refused to introduce me to new women.  Her interpreter practically yelled at me on two separate occasions.  They left me without support for days at a time, which fortunately I didn't need because I can speak Russian.  All of this was my experience.  She then violated all codes of ethics by speaking badly about my character and intentions in my absence.  And if you doubt the women in question who told me these things...well I don't know what to tell you.  Those women CERTAINLY didn't have any reason to lie.  So...that is my experience, that is what happened to me.

While not a "scam" agency in the purest definition of the term, her services are definitely to be avoided by any man considering a trip to Russia.  That is my recommendation.  That is my opinion.  Decide what is best for you.

And with that I'm done.  Y'all take care.

Best,

Jerry

[OlgaH]

I AM serious.  As I've said, I have 2 NOA 2s that say otherwise.  Of course I didn't cancel either of them, such a notion is crazy in my mind.  I do my thinking beforehand and once I make a decision, I stick with it.  I'll leave it at that.
Best,

Jerry

av8or1,

Saying 2 NOA do you mean Notice of Receipt of your petition and Notice of Approval of your petition? or two NOA for two different petitions?

Reading one of your posts about scheduled dating, I had a thought that your were lost in your own feelings about women that you met and finally you chose a woman who after all got "Cold feet" or she turned into something else that you did not expect ... 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3101.msg59183#msg59183

Was it just a bad luck?

PS
I really don't care about WMVM or WOWO. I don't care if guys will schedule their dates or just form their dates in ranks by weight and height. It is just their and their dates own business and preference.

[Turboguy]

Hello Turboguy, I am glad to see you and the lady next to you. You got the real treasure . Thank you for your kind words. Say a big hello to your wife.
Tatiana

Hello Tatiana,   Yes, I agree totally.  my wife is an amazing and wonderful woman.   She always speaks very kindly of you and both liked you as a person and respects you as a good businesswoman who runs her business well.

I have read a lot of reports on "bad agencies"   My wife spent a lot of time at RP and saw a lot of what goes on behind the scenes.   This is her "take" on Russian Pearls.

Often when we hear about a bad agency the complaint I hear most often is that the office staff creates letters to generate fees from the men.   My wife never saw that once.   She did see times that a woman would come in and say she should write her boyfriend but just didn't have anything to say and didn't know what to write.   This would have been a good place for Tatiana to offer to help and make some money.   She never did that.  Sometimes she would question that the woman should really think if the man was right for her because if they really did have a good relationship the woman should not be searching for something to say.

Another sign of a bad agency is one who makes bad matches for the sake of generating fees.   My wife never saw Tatiana do that.   The matches she saw always looked similar in age and like they made a good couple.  She never saw for instance a rich, old, fat, bald man matched with a hot young beauties.

My wife never saw them push going to a resort on people.  She did see times that a woman had someone she really liked and asked Tatiana what they should do to entertain him.   She would suggest going to the mountain resort where there were lots of scenic trails and beautiful scenery.   If the woman didn't want to do that they she would give local suggestions.

Do I think RP is a bad agency.   Going by my wifes observations I think they are fine.  Do I think Jerry's observations are wrong.  I have talked to Jerry several times on the phone.  He seems like a very intelligent and good guy who has his act together.   I think based on what happened to him he should feel they are a bad agency.   I think part of it was just some things that happened that should not have.

I have to think back to Kuna and Pavel.   I have heard guys who think Pavel is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Son of Clyde is on Pavels website with a glowing recommendation.  I have talked to lots and lots of guys who almost looked at Pavel as a long lost brother.   Kuna however had terrible experiences with Pavel and is far more critical than Jerry is of R.P.  No mater how good or bad someones services are there are times things don't go right and people feel disappointed and like the provider of the service is bad.   I can look at what happened on Jerrys trip and he has ever reason to think they are a poor agency.   Personally I think Pavel is a good guide who dropped the ball with Kuna and that R.P is a good agency that dropped the ball with Jerry.  

[Gator]

Someone expressing a different opinion is fine, but to criticize me because I take a different approach than you is simply ridiculous.  It does NOT make me "not serious", it does NOT make me "not a good man" or any of the other tripe that has been offered here.  It's simply a different approach and that's all it is.  Folk like Tatiana who don't support approaches that are different from hers don't bother me so much, let them say what they want.  I'll leave it at that.

Most of the negative response to Jerry's thread was exactly that - a difference of opinion.  Just because Jerry's approach is different from your path does not make Jerry's path wrong.

The unresolved issue in my mind is RP’s decision to not introduce Jerry to additional women once he declined the trip to the top of the mountain.  I assume Jerry would have paid introduction fees for meetings with a new woman, yet RP decided to forgo these additional fees.  What would compel an agency to do that?  It is counter to the image all of us hold about marriage agencies.  

Jerry, this was a very interesting T/R.  Not for the advice about RP but for the thought provoking debate the report prompted.  Men who have not yet taken a trip would benefit from reading it.  

I wish you well.

P. S.  After reading your elaborations over the 20+ pages, I see no problem in what you are doing.

[Turboguy]

Olga,   I believe Jerry is saying he had two K-1 visa applications that got as far as the NOA-2 stage and were cancelled at the request of the lady.

I am glad that I don't have to worry about WOVO and WMVM.   It is wonderful to have that behind me.   I usually tended to be a WMVF type of guy.   Sometimes I would do a WMVO trip.  Some of those were the biggest disasters I had.   The way I liked to do it was to make a trip and visit 2-3 women who I had some rapport with and some reason to think there might be some potential with.   My thoughts were alway that if I found one I really hit it off with then I would visit them only on the next trip.  Usually I would very the time on the potential I saw.  In other words the one I felt the most connected to would get a 4-5 day visit and the ones that were intersting but my number 2 or 3 choice would be someone I would spend a day or two with.    Quite often the ones I did not have high expections with ended up being far nicer than the ones I expected to really hit it off with.  

I only made one trip where I was meeting women in a lightning manner, two or three and even 4 sometimes a day.  That was Jacks trip a few weeks before I made the trip to meet the woman who is now my wife.  I have to say it was a real eye opener for me.   I was surprised how well that worked and I came away from Jacks trip thinking I had been a real idiot for not doing it that way sooner.   You can tell a lot more about a woman sharing a lunch or a coffee and talking for an hour or two than you can in a year of writing.   A trip like that is more about finding someone to visit on a return trip than really trying to make an real progress but of course if you met someone early in the trip you could just concentrate on them.   I don't think there is any right or wrong way.  People have had success with every method imaginable but I do think some who have not met the right woman might want to try going and meeting a lot of women.  

[OlgaH]

You can tell a lot more about a woman sharing a lunch or a coffee and talking for an hour or two than you can in a year of writing.  

But as I can see not for av8or.

[Diplomacy]

Best of Luck to you Jerry

I agree there is a lot of thought provoking information in this thread.  I just spent an evening with my fiance's best friend's family.  This whole journey is the tale of two cities.  It can be the best of times and the worst of times.

You see the train wrecks on the boards, and can even see some of them coming.  Members scream get out of there, but somethings some people have to experience for themselves.  I have been involved with some of the most ruthless, calculated, and cutthroat people I have ever met over the last few years.  Pure professionals of manipulation, deception, and self preservation.  Both AM and FSUW, and I can not say it loud enough. 

On the other side, there is some of the most amazing FSUW and AM, that I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.  Women that not only can turn all the heads in a room, but also WOW you with grace, intelligence, culture, and charisma. 

I just do not see how anyone could push a single member into making a hasty decision.  You should know a great person for you when you meet them.  A woman will know if someone is great person for them also quickly.

A FSUW will be very much the huntress and learns about who you are as a person.  She will go to great lengths to show that she knows you and can make you feel amazing. 

At the end of the day, they are women.  All sorts of different men and different women in the world.  The type of person you are and the type of are looking for dictates what will work. 

If you really do not know the answer, to who you are and what you are looking for.  You need to look for advice from people that have similar personalities, character, intelligence, and lifestyle that you have.

[Tatiana]

Hello everybody!
I am glad to see you all here again. Jerry, you consider yourself to be a gentleman, but you turn to personal accusations and that is after I tried my best for you to feel comfortable in Barnaul and took my daughter and came to you to the hotel to take you to go skiing with us in the woods? Though now, to tell the truth, I am glad that we didn’t manage to do that due to some reasons. Perhaps that is natural to Gentleman, but I want to say it once again that I have never discussed Jerry’s personality negatively with none of you and with none of the ladies in Barnaul. What for? Am I not interested in “happy end” of his staying in Barnaul?
I can’t agree with Jerry’s words. And after all these debates I come to conclusion that there may be only one issue – lack of communication and openness. I think that when people use the help of the agency they need to trust to the agency and be maximum open from both sides and say what they want or expect. As somebody said here “not to assume”. You should understand that the agency is not a magic stick or the telepaths who can read your thoughts and make all your dreams come true.
I don’t say that for all men who come to my agency it works out from the 1st time (though certainly, there are many of them), but some men come several times to Barnaul to try to find that one and only woman and nobody has ever blamed us for their failure! I believe that when two people are sincerely and truly interested in each other and attracted to each other then nobody can stop them from being together!
I am glad that many people try to see the other side of the coin. I know that women who come to my agency are the most intelligent, beautiful, kind, sincere, family-oriented and even though Jerry asks everybody not to use the services of my agency, I am sure that they will find their soul mates and will be happy. And we will be eager to help them in that. Every day when I communicate with men and women I see their eyes, listen to their stories. Some women are looking for the prince, some are looking for harmony, some dream about the home full of children’s laughter. And I assure everybody that I realize the level of my responsibility for every client, both men and women.
I want to wish life-long happiness to those who have found their second halves. I want to wish good-luck and success to those who are haven’t found yet and are still in the process. And for those who are just thinking to start this journey and making the first steps, I want to say that who really wants to be happy will be happy!
I was glad to visit your forum and will be glad to see you on our web-site (www.russian-girls.us.com) and in Barnaul.
Talk to you soon,
Tatiana

[Tatiana]

Hello Tatiana,   Yes, I agree totally.  my wife is an amazing and wonderful woman.   She always speaks very kindly of you and both liked you as a person and respects you as a good businesswoman who runs her business well.

Hello again! Thank you so much, you are right. You have your wife's attitude and experience in our agency. Sometimes men accuse the agency because they don't know what is happening behind he scene.
Tatiana

[SMS60]

The main problem I see with the trip report is the information it contained.

Jerry can go about his searching how he sees fit. When it is being written from a so called fantasy veiw and contains what I would call half truths is when creditbility issues come into play. Then people can question everything he types.

I can smell it coming from my screen.

If this is such a serious site(?) I feel for some of the new men and women who read it and take it for the full truth.