TR: Barnaul/Tver, Russia

[Daveman]

I know it and I perfectly understand that it was not refereed to me, but to Village Idiots aka Hominy Clowns. You have written it clear.

But try not to overdo (or overdose) it (clowning)  being dieting  

Just for the record, do you understand that Village Idiots aka Hominy Clowns was a joke about a new category for myself?  -- as opposed to Good ole Gentlemen and Anointed Messianic Scoundrels.  Just curious because I really think we are on two different planets at the moment. 

[OlgaH]

Just curious because I really think we are on two different planets at the moment. 

satisfying your curiosity: that sentence with plural pronoun was right to the place regarding clowning around my post 

[SANDRO43]

Have you read the Don Foster book "Author Unknown."  ?  It demonstrates how ones language is like a fingerprint. Nice reading.

No but it sounds very interesting. I'll look for it next time I'm at my usual bookshop.

[Gator]

Maybe, I will disappoint you but I can't give any evidence or direct answers to your questions because first of all Jerry was my client and I have to keep confidentially the details of his staying in Barnaul and information about his meetings with ladies. Do not provoke me with your questions ).

There was no need to say such.  It implies that you have some "dirt" on Jerry, when maybe all that happened was a difference in opinion.

[SANDRO43]

I don't recollect Quarryman

From a couple of years ago, when I had a kidney stone blasted out of my bladder: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3896.msg76991#msg76991.

[OlgaH]

... when maybe all that happened was a difference in opinion.

or it was misunderstanding  But I don't think Jerry is inclined to think so.

I'm really curious what Jerry meant actually, when he mentioned the word "brilliant" looking in Tatiana's eyes.

 I am grateful to Jerry, that as he had promised, he gave us his recommendations, though when he was in Barnaul he was talking about “brilliant” recommendations )).

 

[groovlstk]

Groovlstk, Simoni, Catzenmouse and any of the other "RWD anointed ones".

As I have already stated. Your definition of gentleman and mine is far apart.

I think that anyone that refers to a Russian Woman's virtue in such a manner as stated above by your "friend" Groovlstk is nothing short of scoundralism.


GOB

GOB,

I realize you're sort of a "Catholic" guy. You like to think most if not all Russian men are bad, most American women are fat slobs, etc. That's your style. I can even respect it in this age of wishy-washy political correctness.

However...

You fought tooth and nail for Law's TR - breath easy, I'm not going to bring up the photos thing again - and Law met his dates via a social tour. As you must know, such tours usually consist of a room full of pretty women sitting at tables who are there to meet a handful of men. Often there are as many as 10 women for each guy. I never did a tour because personally I find this setup too much like the proverbial meat market and so do quite a few women. (So many, in fact, that some of the shadier tour companies are known to invite prostitutes and professional daters because they can't find enough self-respecting women to attend.) Others, both men and women, don't share my hangups. Hey, it's not for me but if people are finding success this way, more power to them.

But are you honestly telling me that Jerry, by dating 10 individual women for instance, is being "ungentlemanly" and guys who go from table to table playing "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" are, in comparison, acting like gentlemen?

Tell me that with a straight face, please.

Each woman Jerry spent time with had his undivided attention for the duration of their meeting. None were asked to pin nametags to their chests prior to meeting him. This path is certainly one I would have chosen (and did choose for a time, although I wasn't searching as long as Jerry nor did I have the stamina to date so many women) as opposed to a tour.

[GoodOlBoy]

Law met his dates via a social tour. As you must know, such tours usually consist of a room full of pretty women sitting at tables who are there to meet a handful of men. Often there are as many as 10 women for each guy. I never did a tour because personally I find this setup too much like the proverbial meat market and so do quite a few women.

Hello Groovlstk.

I am so glad you asked for a clarification about this from me.

Now I know you will not agree with my conclusions, BUT, here goes:

The scenario you describe above involves HUNDREDS of women in a "competition".

It seems tawdry to me, but I can stomach this situation because THE WOMEN COME KNOWING they are in a competition with other women to find a possible mate. No surprises, these ladies know the "ground rules" going in.

Diametrically opposed to this is Jerry's (and other's) approach of "dating many".

Usually leaving the poor girl with the notion that she might be the "one" he is searching for when we know for a fact she has little or no chance and has probably just lost a day's pay for the "pleasure" of being in Jerry's company.

Although Jerry does tell his dates that there are other women "waiting in the wings", which I find strange.    Because....most Russian women I know would tell a guy like Jerry to go take a hike if she was just a another number on his 13-15 RW hit list.

I find this method of "dating" many RW unsavory and deceptive.

This sounds crazy, But, what if the agency's owner tell's the perspective Russian Lady at the beginning of their conversation on the telephone, before she irons her clothes, prepares her hair and maybe misses time from her job that she must come quickly and meet Jerry because he has 13 other women waiting to meet him.....Sounds kind of absurd?

Well not really, because I just want to see the same fairness for the second group of women as there is for the first group.

Simply put, the agency girls should know, before they go through all of the preparations needed on their part to meet Jerry that they are in competition with MANY other women that day. 

Knowing this, how many do you think would show up to meet Jerry?

Probably not too many RW would be interested in Jerry's game.

So why not tell them up front Groovlstk, at the beginning (before meeting Jerry)?

It is only fair.


GOB

[Kuna]

GOB,

I realize you're sort of a "Catholic" guy. You like to think most if not all Russian men are bad, most American women are fat slobs, etc. That's your style. I can even respect it in this age of wishy-washy political correctness.

However...

You fought tooth and nail for Law's TR - breath easy, I'm not going to bring up the photos thing again - and Law met his dates via a social tour. As you must know, such tours usually consist of a room full of pretty women sitting at tables who are there to meet a handful of men. Often there are as many as 10 women for each guy. I never did a tour because personally I find this setup too much like the proverbial meat market and so do quite a few women. (So many, in fact, that some of the shadier tour companies are known to invite prostitutes and professional daters because they can't find enough self-respecting women to attend.) Others, both men and women, don't share my hangups. Hey, it's not for me but if people are finding success this way, more power to them.

But are you honestly telling me that Jerry, by dating 10 individual women for instance, is being "ungentlemanly" and guys who go from table to table playing "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" are, in comparison, acting like gentlemen?

Tell me that with a straight face, please.

Each woman Jerry spent time with had his undivided attention for the duration of their meeting. None were asked to pin nametags to their chests prior to meeting him. This path is certainly one I would have chosen (and did choose for a time, although I wasn't searching as long as Jerry nor did I have the stamina to date so many women) as opposed to a tour.

Groov,

If GOB took the time to read Jerry's previous TR's he would understand the situation better before he shot off at the mouth.  Maybe narrow mindedness is a part of being a "Good Ol Boy"... and maybe he is proud of it.   ???

I just hope he hits the spitoon as he's chewin' that tabacco. 

For the record - I think Jerry has issues but I could never criticise him if he is going about his search in the way that he is - and knowing that his is respectful and considerate of the women he meets.  Whilst he remains happy I remain supportive - but if he starts seeking a different way then I would respond with some thoughts/ideas.

[GoodOlBoy]

Groov,

If GOB took the time to read Jerry's previous TR's he would understand the situation better before he shot off at the mouth.  Maybe narrow mindedness is a part of being a "Good Ol Boy"... and maybe he is proud of it.   ???

I just hope he hits the spitoon as he's chewin' that tabacco. 

And another "RWD ANOINTED ONE" has spoken.  

Bow to the "master".


GOB

[Makkin]

  Being from Texas but having much experience with other cultures I'm somewhat surprised that GOB would call himself "good ol Boy. The reason I'm surprised is because to call yourself that by name would infer that you are either proud of all it entails or you would like to strike a stereotypical response in a reader?


  Being a gob means nothing really other than you are one of the cloth that maintains the image of a stereotype southern man. "Farmer Brown" might be better as it includes an occupational skill. "Hillbilly" seems to narrow down the stereotype more because it localises the mentality to a long rifle or a better mental image of what the reader might feel.


   A good ole Boy is probably that man who drinks beer and sits with his buddies a lot and has certain opinions of many things related to a closed area of his world. Respect for the gob would be regional and located in the USA because it means generally that he can tolerate and maintain the standard operating procedure and be politically positive with other gob's.


   Okay there you have the gob...a regional USA person who maintains his identity through the friends he keeps in his area of the world. Now you have a salesmanship approach who would transport his gob to the world and RWD especially.

Makkin


 

[Chicagoguy]

As President Carter's brother Billy said: A Hillbilly is someone who throws his empty beer cans out the window when he is finished. A Good Ole Boy is one who tosses them into the bed of the pickup truck he is driving

Please GOB do not take this as any reflection on you. It just makes a good story.

[GoodOlBoy]

  Being from Texas but having much experience with other cultures I'm somewhat surprised that GOB would call himself "good ol Boy. The reason I'm surprised is because to call yourself that by name would infer that you are either proud of all it entails or you would like to strike a stereotypical response in a reader?


  Being a gob means nothing really other than you are one of the cloth that maintains the image of a stereotype southern man. "Farmer Brown" might be better as it includes an occupational skill. "Hillbilly" seems to narrow down the stereotype more because it localises the mentality to a long rifle or a better mental image of what the reader might feel.


   A good ole Boy is probably that man who drinks beer and sits with his buddies a lot and has certain opinions of many things related to a closed area of his world. Respect for the gob would be regional and located in the USA because it means generally that he can tolerate and maintain the standard operating procedure and be politically positive with other gob's.


   Okay there you have the gob...a regional USA person who maintains his identity through the friends he keeps in his area of the world. Now you have a salesmanship approach who would transport his gob to the world and RWD especially.

Makkin 

WTH, I don't even know what this member is trying to say?  

Are you asking for membership to the "Anointed Ones"  :evil: or the "Mental Midgets"?


GOB

[Daveman]

WTH, I don't even know what this member is trying to say?  

Are you asking for membership to the "Anointed Ones"  :evil: or the "Mental Midgets"?


GOB

The Village Idiots aka Hominy Clowns  are also currently accepting applications for the upcoming pledge rush season.

[groovlstk]

There's some good stuff to be found here if we can all respect each other's opinions. The thread about posting photos could've yielded the same if we hadn't let it sink into a cesspool of personal attacks.  :noidea:

[Gator]

Simply put, the agency girls should know, before they go through all of the preparations needed on their part to meet Jerry that they are in competition with MANY other women. 

GOB,

The women know the procedure and willingly participate.  It occurs frequently.  With  socials (i. e., Law's T/R)  RW see their competition and can measure their appeal by how much time a man spends with her before he moves to the next RW.  A social is more demeaning IMO than Jerry's approach.

... and has probably just lost a day's pay for the "pleasure" of being in Jerry's company.

Most RW do not miss work - meeting Jerry for their lunch break, just after work, evening dinner, weekends, etc.  There is a lot of downtime for the man when following Jerry's approach.

Regarding the time to prepare for the meeting, most are already looking good (the nature of the RW).

Usually leaving the poor girl with the notion that she might be the "one" he is searching for when we know for a fact she has little or no chance

We do not know what Jerry told them.  It appears that he promised little because Tatiana wrote, “…each of the ladies would call me several times a day and come to the office to talk to me about that [how serious man's intentions are towards her]."  

With Jerry's approach, there is nominal time-consuming correspondence prior to the meeting, no buildup of false hopes.

There is the other side of the coin.  I was in Cindy Agency's office when an irritated UW came in and said, "That man was awful loser.  Don't call me for dates with losers.  Call me only when the man is excellent" (as translated to me by my interpreter).  

[Misha]

There's some good stuff to be found here if we can all respect each other's opinions.

I agree. That is why I objected to the "mental midgets" sideswipe.

[Simoni]

WTH, I don't even know what this member is trying to say?  

Makkikn is saying you are a "poser."  You call yourself GOB but you are not.  Same thing I told you upthread...

...you call yourself GOB?  I know GOBs, and you are not one.

Good ole' boys do not leave their fellow guys high and dry, while taking up for an agency owner who has done one of our own wrong.

And a true GOB has experience.  Your postings appear to be from a one week wonder.  Are you?

Let me repeat.  Your attacks on Jerry for dating more than one girl while on a trip are naive at best.

Your lack of experience means you don't understand what a dating agency is, whether in the US or the FSU.   Listen to the two words-- Dating Agency.  Girls sign up to meet guys.  Guys sign up to meet girls.  You do so in order to have a date, and hopefully a nice time together. Nothing beyond the single date is promised.

Girls from match.com or their sister agencies in the fsu know that men are dating other women.  And guess what?  The girls are also meeting and dating other guys!

You have taken something that is pure and aboveboard and cast it in a negative light.  It's time you get off your soapbox and start being supportive of the guys here at RWD.  Only then can you hope to be a GOB.  Until then, you are with the Girlie Guys group.

[GoodOlBoy]

GOB,
The women know the procedure and willingly participate.  It occurs frequently.  With  socials (i. e., Law's T/R)  RW see their competition and can measure their appeal by how much time a man spends with her before he moves to the next RW.  A social is more demeaning IMO than Jerry's approach.

Hello Gator.

How "willing" would they be if they knew the whole truth about Jerry's tactics.

In a "social" dating scheme, the women can size each other up.

In a "dating many" scheme, the women are at a disadvantage because they don't know who the "competition" is.

I am just trying to say there is an inherent UNFAIRNESS to the RW in the second style of dating.


GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

Your lack of experience means you don't understand what a dating agency is, whether in the US or the FSU.   Listen to the two words-- Dating Agency.  Girls sign up to meet guys.  Guys sign up to meet girls.  You do so in order to have a date, and hopefully a nice time together. Nothing beyond the single date is promised.

And Simoni, your braggadocio behavior on this forum, about having so many RW/UW proves only one thing to me.

You are NO gentleman.....you sir are a CAD.


GOB

[Admin]

Enough.

No more name-calling. No more personal insults.

- Dan

[OlgaH]

Good ole' boys do not leave their fellow guys high and dry, while taking up for an agency owner who has done one of our own wrong.

So, you are sure that an agency owner has done wrong. I'm not sure.  I'm inclined to think that Jerry has misunderstood... or (and here I remember Tatiana's words about keeping confidentially the details of his staying in Barnaul)
For example, an understandable person even would not mention that "they were late in picking him up... and they did show up after he waited for a short time"

In 2006 he accused Richard's Tver Angels" in lies, and after Richard's explanation he gave his apology. But who knows how that case would go if Richard was not a member of this board  

[Vaughn]

I am just trying to say there is an inherent UNFAIRNESS to the RW in the second style of dating.

That unfairness is a normal part of dating, everywhere. I can appreciate your protectiveness of RW, GOB,
but think hard about the indignity of a woman having to show up in a hall full of women to be scrutinized
by a small band of paying men - it reeks to me. Just imagine it.

Hey, I'm not a OWW - but only dated one lady seriously. Had it not worked out, would I have been such
a scoundrel to have moved on to others? It's the way life works.

BTW, I was baptized a Catholic - and am sure I'm not at all how a previous poster implied. While the word
was definitely NOT intended as a slur - I think we ALL ought to dispense with the labels. Including myself.
I publicly apologize for having called a member a "racist" in another thread - it will not happen again. 

Looks like Dan got here ahead of me...

[Gator]

How "willing" would they be if they knew the whole truth about Jerry's tactics.

Believe me, they know.  Why would they not know?  RW are not idiots.  Also, RW are natural skeptics.  They do not make themselves vulnerable.  

In a "social" dating scheme, the women can size each other up.

In a "dating many" scheme, the women are at a disadvantage because they don't know who the "competition" is.

What difference does it make.  There are two questions:  Does he like her?  Does she like him?  Four possible combinations.  Only one leads to another date. From there, magic could happen.

I am just trying to say there is an inherent UNFAIRNESS to the RW in the second style of dating.

If the RW thinks it unfair, she does not have to participate.  She can wait for a man to correspond with her for several months and come to meet only her (and possibly have her work and hopes destroyed by the first meeting when she feels no chemistry).

[Simoni]

And Simoni, your braggadocio behavior on this forum, about having so many RW/UW proves only one thing to me.

You are NO gentleman.....you sir are a CAD.

GOB-- there is not bragging in what I posted.  I simply laid out a sound plan for traveling to a central city and meeting fsu girls. It's upstream, but all I said was to write a few letters to 3 or 4 girls and identify others for backup.  That is not bragging--it is just plain good sense.

Our problem is that you see something "polluted" in simple dating behavior. 

I think Gator has said it best...

Most RW do not miss work - meeting Jerry for their lunch break, just after work, evening dinner, weekends, etc.  There is a lot of downtime for the man when following Jerry's approach.

Regarding the time to prepare for the meeting, most are already looking good (the nature of the RW).

We do not know what Jerry told them.  It appears that he promised little because Tatiana wrote, “…each of the ladies would call me several times a day and come to the office to talk to me about that [how serious man's intentions are towards her]."  

With Jerry's approach, there is nominal time-consuming correspondence prior to the meeting, no buildup of false hopes.