IMBRA Process Flowchart

[Admin]

Hey Folks,

We have been putting some things together that we expect to be of some help to you.

Would those of you that are familiar with IMBRA take a look at this flowchart we put together and let us know if we got it right?

Here is the page (2 pages, in fact) -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=46

Thanks, in advance, for your input.

- Dan

[SANDRO43]

Thanks, in advance, for your input.

If the STOP symbols have a red background, so should the START symbol .

[Gator]

If the STOP symbols have a red background, so should the START symbol .

Or green.

What is the pentagon at the bottom of the chart?

[Admin]

Or green.

What is the pentagon at the bottom of the chart?

>>Or green.<<

I thought the same thing about the START button. Green for 'Go' - Red for 'Stop'. Guess the stoplight concept was in the back of my mind.

>>What is the pentagon at the bottom of the chart?<<

Link to Page 2.

Speaking of links, if you click on the symbol that says "IMBRA Enforcement" it'll bring up the GAO report on the topic.

FYI.

- Dan

[SANDRO43]

>>What is the pentagon at the bottom of the chart?<<
Link to Page 2.

There's roon enough in the triiangle to add: To Pg.2, From Pg.1

Speaking of links, if you click on the symbol that says "IMBRA Enforcement" it'll bring up the GAO report on the topic.

Not very intuitive. Can you add below the symbol: (Click for GAO Report)?

[Admin]

There's roon enough in the triiangle to add: To Pg.2, From Pg.1Not very intuitive. Can you add below the symbol: (Click for GAO Report)?

It appears when you run your mouse over the symbol.

Consider it one of those little 'treasures' one discovers by accident?

Seriously, I agree there needs to be some way for a reader to notice a difference. I am working on it.

- Dan

[Chicagoguy]

I am having trouble seeing this on my screen and for some reason it wouldn't print out.   Also, compare it to this one from Visa Journey


http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?autocom=custom&page=k1flow

[GoodOlBoy]

I am having trouble seeing this on my screen and for some reason it wouldn't print out.   Also, compare it to this one from Visa Journey


http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?autocom=custom&page=k1flow

Hey Chicagoguy.

Are you referring to the format Visa Journey is using in their flowchart?

I don't think you can use the VJ K-1 flowchart format for IMBRA.

There is to many process steps with MULTIPLE variables.


GOB

[Admin]

I am having trouble seeing this on my screen and for some reason it wouldn't print out.   Also, compare it to this one from Visa Journey


http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?autocom=custom&page=k1flow

Can you tell me what kind of problem(s) you are encountering? Error messages?

The flowchart we prepared was specifically to address the flow of information and actions necessitated due to IMBRA.

The reason for this focus is to insure that guys (and gals) have an understanding of the IMBRA hoops they need to consider as a part of this process.

It in no way suggests endorsement of IMBRA.

- Dan

[Chicagoguy]

I has success when I moved my screen size to 200 %. Also had success when I printed a second time. Why ? Who knows.

Also GOB is correct. I get confused between IMBRA and K-1.

[Admin]

I has success when I moved my screen size to 200 %. Also had success when I printed a second time. Why ? Who knows.

Also GOB is correct. I get confused between IMBRA and K-1.

Glad you were able to see it.

In terms of the differences - consider this:

Most American guys in this endeavor will bring their wife/fiance to the US via one of three possible mechanisms.

* The K-1 visa for a fiance
* The K-3 visa for a wife
* The CR-1 visa also for a wife, but normal use is for someone who lives and marries overseas.

Soon enough, you will see more helpful information on each of these three visa types.

The particular flowchart we developed here, was in response to the IMBRA legislation and *only* addresses those particulars. It mostly applies to the K-1 visa process - although I seem to recall seeing something about K-3's also being subject to IMBRA - but that makes little sense to me.

Do you think the flowchart helps?

- Dan

[Chicagoguy]

The flow chart doesn't mean much to me. To be honest I do not understand IMBRA.
I have been approved on my I-129F part of my K-1 effort and I am waiting for it to be sent to Moscow from the National Visa Center in New Hampshire.

The Visa Journey flow chart helps but it seems no one has a handle on the exact time frame. Maybe because there is no exact time frame.

[Admin]

The flow chart doesn't mean much to me. To be honest I do not understand IMBRA.
I have been approved on my I-129F part of my K-1 effort and I am waiting for it to be sent to Moscow from the National Visa Center in New Hampshire.

The Visa Journey flow chart helps but it seems no one has a handle on the exact time frame. Maybe because there is no exact time frame.

The IMBRA flowchart is only significant if you worked through an IMB.

If you *did* utilize an IMB for your introduction to your fiance, then there are a number of steps the IMB should have followed, and it would be to your benefit to understand those steps. That was the intent behind this particular flowchart.

- Dan

[Vaughn]

Chicagoguy,

  You can throw tomatoes my way if I'm overexplaining - but the IMB refers to International Marriage Broker,
which simply put is an agency (introduction, marriage, etc..) If you met your intended through one of these.
the two of you WILL be checked out for IMBRA compliance. And again, if you DID meet this way, I urge you
to not discount its importance. Don't be shy - fire away, or start a new thread with questions.

Dan,

  This flowchart is laid out very well. Looks great, and follows the steps and possibilities comprehensively. This
also is not an endorsement of IMBRA, in fact, I am happy that we married well before the law took effect.

   A very useful vehicle, not to be overlooked

[Chicagoguy]

Vaughn,

Thanks for your "heads up" but I did not use agencies or brokers. Maybe in the beginning but even then I went straight for direct e-mails. The last women I met were through Free Personals.ru and finally got lucky with Holostyak.com.

Am I correct in thinking they are not covered by IMBRA ?

[Admin]

Vaughn,

Thanks for your "heads up" but I did not use agencies or brokers. Maybe in the beginning but even then I went straight for direct e-mails. The last women I met were through Free Personals.ru and finally got lucky with Holostyak.com.

Am I correct in thinking they are not covered by IMBRA ?

Depends. There are some exceptions to the IMBRA legislation - which is part of what makes it so specious.

Here is the IMBRA language regarding who is, and who is not, an international marriage broker:

(4) INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER-

      (A) IN GENERAL- The term `international marriage broker' means a corporation, partnership, business, individual, or other legal entity, whether or not organized under any law of the United States, that charges fees for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services, or social referrals between United States citizens or nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States as permanent residents and foreign national clients by providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating communication between individuals.

      (B) EXCEPTIONS- Such term does not include--

            (i) a traditional matchmaking organization of a cultural or religious nature that operates on a nonprofit basis and otherwise operates in compliance with the laws of the countries in which it operates, including the laws of the United States; or

            (ii) an entity that provides dating services if its principal business is not to provide international dating services between United States citizens or United States residents and foreign nationals and it charges comparable rates and offers comparable services to all individuals it serves regardless of the individual's gender or country of citizenship.

And for additional reference, at the interview, the consular officer is obligated to inquire about how your fiancee met you and if an IMB was involved. Here, again, is a specific excerpt from IMBRA:

(1) FIANCE(E)S, SPOUSES AND THEIR DERIVATIVES- During an interview with an applicant for a K nonimmigrant visa, a consular officers shall--

      (A) provide information, in the primary language of the visa applicant, on protection orders or criminal convictions collected under subsection (a)(5)(A)(iii);

      (B) provide a copy of the pamphlet developed under subsection (a)(1) in English or another appropriate language and provide an oral summary, in the primary language of the visa applicant, of that pamphlet; and

      (C) ask the applicant, in the primary language of the applicant, whether an international marriage broker has facilitated the relationship between the applicant and the United States petitioner, and, if so, obtain the identity of the international marriage broker from the applicant and confirm that the international marriage broker provided to the applicant the information and materials required under subsection (d)(3)(A)(iii).

BTW - I do not believe the Information Pamphlet referenced in IMBRA and in the flowchart is available yet. It was distributed for comment some time back, and I know they received comments from some of the feminazi bunch (they made a big splash about their righteous indignation and response) - but I do not know if the pamphlet has been finalized.

The entire IMBRA text may be found here -- http://www.goodwife.com/index.php?pid=14

I hope this helps.

- Dan

[Gator]

This chart does not cover an important step for some K-1 petitioners.  Namely, if he has filed two or more K-1 petitions, he will need a variance.  Or the time is too short between the two.  I forget the actual requirement.  It is defined on the 129 form.

[Gator]

The last women I met were through Free Personals.ru and finally got lucky with Holostyak.com.

Am I correct in thinking they are not covered by IMBRA ?

Freepersonals derives income (albeit indirectly) via its advertisers.  I recall reading a couple a years ago some discussion that such would exclude them from the nonprofit exemption.  Forgot where I read it.  Seems too onerous as Freepersonals would not be expected to  comply with the IMB requirements.

[Admin]

This chart does not cover an important step for some K-1 petitioners.  Namely, if he has filed two or more K-1 petitions, he will need a variance.  Or the time is too short between the two.  I forget the actual requirement.  It is defined on the 129 form.

Good catch.

I'll build that in and revise.

Thanks,

- Dan

[Admin]

OK - I updated the flowchart for a couple of variations.

The more I read about the details of IMBRA, the more it becomes obvious this flowcharting exercise will be a continuous 'work-in-progress' for some time to come. Still, I think this is the most accurate depiction of the process as it is currently defined and implemented.

I added a disconnected page 3 to indicate the various roles and responsibilities of USCIS, Dept of State, and Dept of Justice insofar as IMBRA-specific responsibilities. Since some provisions of IMBRA are not yet actioned, distinct responsibilities are still being determined in at least one instance - for criminal prosecutions. The last page of the flow makes an attempt to describe which agency does what.

Anyway - let me know if this helps - or just confuses matters further.

The link in the opening post takes you to the updated charts.

- Dan

[vwrw]

Two years is the time between them and the visa does not need to be approved.   If you file and withdraw it a week later and then apply for a second time even if it is the same fiancee you now fall under the two year rule.

Free Personals does not qualify as a IMB.  The determining factor is if you paid for a meeting or contact information or a membership that lets you access contact information.   The other variances are if the organization was a religious one or if facilitating meetings between foreigners and us citizens is not the primary part of their business, which was designed to keep companies like Match.com out of IMBRA.  As an example I met my wife through Elena's models and Elena's is considered to be an IMB.

Nice job Dan.   ( Sorry, this is Turboguy who posted, I forgot we were logged in as VWRW )

[Admin]

OK - made some changes, and also expanded the flowchart substantially, now making two sets of flowcharts.

First is the US Marriage/Fiance(e) Visa Processes, which covers K-1/K-2 - K-3/K-4 - CR-1/IR-1 - and can be found here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=47. Anytime you see this - (link) - if you click on that symbol, it should open the referenced document - largely USCIS forms.

The IMBRA flowchart has been refined a bit, and a third page added to show responsibilities by US agencies for various aspects of IMBRA. You can find this set of flowcharts here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=46

Please let me know what you think - and if these are helpful. If y'all think these are worthwhile, we can 'sticky' them or place them in a location where guys can find them easily.

- Dan

[ScottinCrimea]

The flow chart of the CR-1 process still needs some work.  For example, it doesn't make clear that you first send the petition and necessary documents to the appropriate service center, then after it is approved there it is sent to the NVC who request additional documents such as the form I-864, originals of the police certificate and her birth certificate and copies of her international passport.  The fee is also paid to the NVC. This is significantly different from the K-1 process where she takes the I-864 and the documents to the interview and pays there.  The only thing needed by her at the interview are the medical exam (you also left that step out) and some passport photos. This is all pretty fresh in my mind as our daughter has her embassy interview in Kiev about 4 hours from now.

You also left out the removal of conditions step which comes before naturalization.

[Admin]

The flow chart of the CR-1 process still needs some work.  For example, it doesn't make clear that you first send the petition and necessary documents to the appropriate service center, then after it is approved there it is sent to the NVC who request additional documents such as the form I-864, originals of the police certificate and her birth certificate and copies of her international passport.  The fee is also paid to the NVC. This is significantly different from the K-1 process where she takes the I-864 and the documents to the interview and pays there.  The only thing needed by her at the interview are the medical exam (you also left that step out) and some passport photos. This is all pretty fresh in my mind as our daughter has her embassy interview in Kiev about 4 hours from now.

You also left out the removal of conditions step which comes before naturalization.

Scott,

From the standpoint of the petitioner, the processing that goes on by USCIS local offices forwarding to NVC is hidden, that is why it was not shown.

Can the I-864 be submitted with the I-130, or is it necessary to wait for the billing from NVC?

Do you recall completing the DS-230 - and if so, when?

- Dan

[ScottinCrimea]

Dan,

Once the NVC receives the approved petition from the local office, they send out two bills.  They send to you a bill for $70, the charge for their review of the I-864.   Only after the NVC has received this money are you allowed to submit the documents, and you send it to them.  To the beneficiary or their assigned agent they send a bill for the visa fee of $400 and only after this has been received does she submit the DS-230.  In both cases they specifically state that you should not send the I-864 or the DS-230 until the appropriate payment has been received. From the dates on the letters, they sent out the bill for the I-864 about 2 weeks before the visa bill. All documents must be received and approved by the NVC before they set the interview date and send your file to the embassy. Essentially no document review is done by the embassy.