St.Pete's Trip Report Jan 2009

[Sculpto]

The 70K I could see walking down the street would scare me the least. I can recognize them and know what they stand for. Do you honestly believe that the 70K is all the threat for hate crime in Russia? For someone with supposed time on the ground in Russia/Ukraine you weren't very observant were you? Do you believe the majority of the other 140 million will share your attitude on homosexuality? What solace will you take in that with a steel toed boot crashing into your teeth? Or what solace should some newbie take in your words with his bone cracking from the advice you posted to "sure! be proud to visit gay bars" in the forum? Your words and encouragement here Sculpt are very irresponsible. Hopefully, no one will take them to heart.

Actually from my experiences and the people I have met on the ground in Ukraine and Moscow there was very little if any anti gay feelings expressed.  Most people just don't care.  The right wing lunatics known as skin heads do not represent the average person, here, or in the FSU.  And, quite frankly, by the warped logic you are using, if you turned it around and took a good look at the good ole usa you might notice that our cities are filled with violent gangs and criminals, we have the highest murder rate of all the industrial nations etc.. so, perhaps we should be warning all the lovely FSUWs to stay out of the USA because it is too dangerous. 

[Misha]

Actually there is a cop on trial right now in Oakland.  Then there is the idaho case.. there are plenty of examples..

Can you provide links to specific cases and news articles?

[Sculpto]

Sulpto, you really need to check your facts before you throw out the anecdotes and "statistics" from the propaganda pamphlets.  That 10% number comes from Kindey's original report in the 1940's and has been latched on to by gays to further their agenda, rationalize their lifestyle and to make it appear more acceptable.  Kinsy's study was seriously flawed, including the fact that a high percentage of his subjects were prostitutes and the prison population.  He didn't use many of the controls that are considered standard practice by statisticians today.

The most recent studies, both nationally and internationally, put the figure at 1-3%.  Anyone who continues to throw out the 10% number is either woefully uninformed or willingly deceptive.  Living in SF will naturally give you a skewed view of the percentage of gays as well as many other things that are considered outside the concept of normal everywhere else.

To stave off the expected accusations of homophobia, yes I have friends who are gay, and yes, I have been to gay bars, the last time just a couple of months ago.  Would I do it in the FSU?  Not a chance!

Scott.. I am sticking by the 10% number, regardless of any discreditation of Kinsey.  Why?  because not everyone will admit to it and not everyone acts on it.  For example.. in some Latin American countries male to male contact is common.. but because it is restricted to certain acts the reciever will not percieve himself as gay.. he is just getting a favor.. open homosexuals living a gay lifestyle.. yeah.. 2-4% is probably about right.. those with active fantasy lives.. doing it on the "DL" or guys in macho oriented societies that do not identify recieving oral sex as making them gay/bi make up the difference. 

That said.. in terms of places like Moscow or Piter.. they are modern cosmopolitan cities.. there is no reason to live in fear of jackbooted neo nazis..

[Sculpto]

Hate crime statistics for the usa.. from the FBI website.. year 2007

Of the 7,621 single-bias incidents, 50.8 percent were motivated by a racial bias, 18.4 percent were motivated by a religious bias, 16.6 percent were motivated by a sexual orientation bias, and 13.2 percent were motivated by an ethnicity/national origin bias. One percent involved a bias against a disability.
 
There were 5,408 hate crime offenses classified as crimes against persons in 2007. Intimidation accounted for 47.4 percent of crimes against persons, simple assaults for 31.1 percent, and aggravated assaults for 20.6 percent. Nine murders were reported as hate crimes.

There were 3,579 hate crime offenses classified as crimes against property; most of these (81.4 percent) were acts of destruction/damage/vandalism. The remaining 18.6 percent of crimes against property consisted of robbery, burglary, larceny theft, motor vehicle theft, arson, and other offenses.

Of the 6,965 known offenders, 62.9 percent were white and 20.8 percent were black. The race was unknown for 9.8 percent, and other races accounted for the remaining known offenders.

The largest percentage (30.5 percent) of hate crime incidents occurred in or near homes. Also, 18.9 percent took place on highways, roads, alleys, or streets; 11.3 percent happened at schools or colleges; 6.0 percent in parking lots or garages; and 4.1 percent in churches, synagogues, or temples. The remaining 29.3 percent of hate crime incidents took place at other specified locations, multiple locations, or other/unknown locations.

[Gator]

Sculpto,

You sure do know a lot about gay culture, more than I care to know.

So who among RWD makes up the 10%?  

[Faux Pas]

Actually from my experiences and the people I have met on the ground in Ukraine and Moscow there was very little if any anti gay feelings expressed.  Most people just don't care.  The right wing lunatics known as skin heads do not represent the average person, here, or in the FSU.  And, quite frankly, by the warped logic you are using, if you turned it around and took a good look at the good ole usa you might notice that our cities are filled with violent gangs and criminals, we have the highest murder rate of all the industrial nations etc.. so, perhaps we should be warning all the lovely FSUWs to stay out of the USA because it is too dangerous. 

There is nothing warped about my logic. From your ACTUAL experiences how many of the people on the ground in Russia/Ukraine did you discuss your penchant and support of homosexuality with? How many gay bars did you frequent? What did you base their supposed "the devil may care about homosexuals" attitude on?

The "good ole USA" is not even relevant to this conversation of hate crimes against gays in Russia or your insistence that frequenting gays bars is "okay". Your attempted Strawman is duly noted. What is really sad here Sculpt, is you don't even see the absurdity in your statement. You are so blinded by your blanket politically correct liberal agenda you are not capable of grasping the reality of the situation. Very sad indeed for one claiming such openness, enlightenment and educated. I encourage you to visit all the gay clubs you can find on your next visit. Please do return and tell us of the wonderful experience.

[Faux Pas]

Sculpto,

You sure do know a lot about gay culture, more than I care to know.

So who among RWD makes up the 10%?  

count Sculpt as 10% and me in the other 90%.

[SMS60]

Good grief

Something I never thought I would see discussed on this forum.

And another reason why some of these trip reports are BS.

The OP, who is into the arts, travels 5000 miles to visit a gay bar while passing up the Hermitage.

Something stinks again.

[Sculpto]

Sculpto,

You sure do know a lot about gay culture, more than I care to know.

So who among RWD makes up the 10%?  

You never know Gator.. people have all kinds of skeltons in their closets..

[GoodOlBoy]

You never know Gator.. people have all kinds of skeltons in their closets..

Gator....I think the man just called you "out". 

Anything you want to tell us?  :evil:


GOB

[Sculpto]

Can you provide links to specific cases and news articles?

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2007/table_01.htm

this table breaks down hate crime in the us by type.. there are a lot of other tables on the fbi site.. from the looks of things it is more dangerous to be a Jew in the US than Gay or Black..

[GoodOlBoy]

Good grief

Something I never thought I would see discussed on this forum.

And another reason why some of these trip reports are BS.

The OP, who is into the arts, travels 5000 miles to visit a gay bar while passing up the Hermitage.
Something stinks again.

SMS60.....I am so glad somebody else on this forum is having a difficult time understanding the OP's position and strategy in St. Petersburg while supposedly looking for a legitimate RW.  


GOB

[Misha]

Hate crime statistics for the usa.. from the FBI website.. year 2007

I was asking for sources dealing with the specific cases you mentioned: the cop from Oakland etc...

[Gator]

Gator....I think the man just called you "out".  :evil:

Sculpto, I assure you that I don't want something repeatedly banging against my prostate.  :whirling:

[Sculpto]

There is nothing warped about my logic. From your ACTUAL experiences how many of the people on the ground in Russia/Ukraine did you discuss your penchant and support of homosexuality with? How many gay bars did you frequent? What did you base their supposed "the devil may care about homosexuals" attitude on?

I live in GayTown USA.. you think i am not going to make sure any woman I get involved with is not going to make my gay friends uncomfortable?  You think I am going to spend my life with a homophobe?  Come on now.. it is a primary question when I was vetting potential women.. in the top 20 questions.  

[Simoni]

Some of my best friends are gay (and yes, I do have friends here at RWD :-).   My wife was totally acceptable of them and in fact loves them dearly.

RWD is not representative of American life--way more racist here and gay bashers than in the population as a whole. 

Having said that, the vast majority of guys here are wonderful and would do anything for you.

~Why are we even talking about gays as a population?  People are people.

[Sculpto]

I was asking for sources dealing with the specific cases you mentioned: the cop from Oakland etc...

The Oakland cop case is heading to trial.. not there yet.  The cops will deny there was a racial motivation behind the killing, but, there has been a pattern of racial profiliing and harrassment by the oakland pd for a long time.  

I was mistaken about idaho.. i meant wyoming.. here is the wiki on it..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

here is another bay area case a few years ago..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwen_Araujo

here is a report from the Oakland PD.. it should be clear enough to understand what it must feel like to be black in Oakland..
http://oaklandpolice.com/geninfo/press/04.8.24.pdf

you want more?  there is plenty more...

[Sculpto]

SMS60.....I am so glad somebody else on this forum is having a difficult time understanding the OP's position and strategy in St. Petersburg while supposedly looking for a legitimate RW.  


GOB

I think we all find his strategy was flawed.  Though, for different reasons.

[Faux Pas]

I live in GayTown USA.. you think i am not going to make sure any woman I get involved with is not going to make my gay friends uncomfortable?  You think I am going to spend my life with a homophobe?  Come on now.. it is a primary question when I was vetting potential women.. in the top 20 questions.  

Just curious, what question exactly did you pose to these potential women? Did I read this correctly? You will chose your gay friends over your potential female mate for life?

Homophobe is what exactly? Anyone who doesn't agree with the homosexual agenda? Someone who disagrees homosexual nature is normal? Someone who hides their own homosexual tendencies? Someone who hates homosexuals or someone who hates homosexuality? All of the above? Seems to be a broad term you have used more than once in different applications.

[Sculpto]

Sculpto, I assure you that I don't want something repeatedly banging against my prostate.  :whirling:

LMFAO.. Gator.. out of respect for your prostate I will not make ANY of the jokes you OPENED yourself up to..

I will say however.. and this has nothing to do with you.. there is a quite active subculture of totally NON GAY guys who seek out females practiced in the art of prostate massage.  Point is.. you might be missing something..

[Misha]

you want more?  there is plenty more...

Cases where one individual was murdered. Always a tragedy, but I asked you for examples where a gang killed twenty people because they were immigrants as was the case in the Moscow killing spree. I will settle for a case of a skinhead gang killing a few people because they were immigrants or gay in the United States.

[Sculpto]

Just curious, what question exactly did you pose to these potential women? Did I read this correctly? You will chose your gay friends over your potential female mate for life?

Homophobe is what exactly? Anyone who doesn't agree with the homosexual agenda? Someone who disagrees homosexual nature is normal? Someone who hides their own homosexual tendencies? Someone who hates homosexuals or someone who hates homosexuality? All of the above? Seems to be a broad term you have used more than once in different applications.

I simply explain that I live ina city with a large open gay community.  Would the lday be uncomfortable seeing men holding hands or kissing on the street.. or.. at a dinner party at our home.

I could never be comfortable with a woman that is openly homophobic, no less than I could with a woman that is racist or has relgious biases against jews, muslims, hindus, or any other religion.  If a woman has those traits she would not be a match for me.

As to the definition of homophobe.. all the above would fit.

I should add an interesting point.. the people in my circle of friends who have been the most supportive of my quest have been gay men.  Some of my non gay friends are very much stuck i the biases of perception about women from the FSU.  Gold diggers, green card seekers etc.. while the gay guys understand on a rather deep level the value of being yourself and doing what you believe in, even at the cost of being ostracized.  

[Makkin]

hiya,


   I bet we need a section to establish percentage on gay's right?..lol.


   My O My I've never been so bored as when this "Gay" issue reared it's head and Sculpto has shown a irregular amount of pride..lol.

Makkin

[Sculpto]

Cases where one individual was murdered. Always a tragedy, but I asked you for examples where a gang killed twenty people because they were immigrants as was the case in the Moscow killing spree. I will settle for a case of a skinhead gang killing a few people because they were immigrants or gay in the United States.

Misha.. will this do..

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49Q7KJ20081028

[Misha]

Misha.. will this do..

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49Q7KJ20081028

From your article: "skinheads were arrested in Tennessee over plans to go on a killing spree" versus skinheads in Moscow going out and killing 20 people. Can you not see the difference?