St.Pete's Trip Report Jan 2009

[Gator]

Did you happen to think about asking any of these "girls" if one of their Mothers was available? 

I asked that of one UW.  An agency wanted me to meet this one young woman.  I protested because of the age disparity (25+), yet relented as the agency assured me she was special.

She was different with a great SOH and an infectious smile.  I asked her about our age difference and she played back the usual response.  Too which I asked, "Because I am the same age as your mama, is she available?"

"You would not like my mama.  She is fat."

"No problem.  She would lose that extra weight if with me."

"How?"

"I would chase her around the house all day, dragging her to bed."

She laughed loud and long.  I thought maybe we had something going.  Then when parting and talking about a second meeting, she asked me to go to a nearby cosmetics shop and buy her some French shampoo. 

"Paka."

[Simoni]

Great story, Gator!   

I had a similar experience, but this girl's mom was beautiful!

It was a WOVO trip, and the girl (23) put me in a nearby apartment.  She had to leave for university classes, which left me alone.

And then mom stepped in and started taking care of me, driving me around Zhitomir in her BMW. 

That's not all there is to the story, but all I'm saying here!

[GoodOlBoy]

And then mom stepped in and started taking care of me, driving me around Zhitomir in her BMW. 

That's not all there is to the story, but all I'm saying here!

"Mrs. Robinson, you're trying to seduce me". 


GOB

[ambach123]

DaveyJ, thanks for a very well written post.

I am sorry for the bashing you got here, but some people have given good advise.

In this pursuit you get what you pay for; you look for women at Mamba or Mambo, you get nothing for nothing. As you found out those are not serious women, and they are not about to leave their country specially not from St. Pete in  Russia, does not matter who you are.

I think your choice of the country and city were not right.

You will have better luck in Ukraine; choose an agency that will screen the girls, and arrange for a meeting. It costs about $50 per meeting, the meeting arrangement is their repsonsibility. Choose a city, not Kiev.

There are many agencies or combination of agencies, in Dnepro, Kherson and Kharkov who can put together about ten meetings with girls you may like for you.

If you like someone make a quick second trip.

You earn good money, why skimp in the search process?

[2tallbill]

Oh damn, are you sure? But I've been told that I look like I'm more in my 20s than 40s.

On a more serious note; take my posts as personal insults if you wish but I thought these TR were supposed to be primarily "educational" at least that is the rationalisation that everyone usually gives.

If you don't think that this trip report could be highly educational then you
aren't reading it the same way I am.

1. If nothing else a newbie can read this report and realize that he can't get
on a plane and stand in the middle of St Pete waving his blue passport
waiting to select among the throngs of the sexy RW to marry him.

2. Do you think that the second commandment might be reinforced a little bit
for a newbie reading this?

3. A report doesn't have to end in wedded bliss or written like a "how to" in
order to be educational. Lessons in life rarely are written like a "for dummies book"

4. Lastly everyone has their own style, method and what works for them. Very very
few are successful the first time. We all make mistakes and it takes a certain amount
of bravery to write about your failure(s).

About chasing women too young, I certainly did it a time or two before I realized
the folly of it. Some things men can learn by reading and others they have to screw
up on their own to learn.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill

[Misha]

In this pursuit you get what you pay for; you look for women at Mamba or Mambo, you get nothing for nothing.

Let's see, I met my wife on the mambo network and have been happily married for 2+ years 

[Simoni]

About chasing women too young, I certainly did it a time or two before I realized
the folly of it. Some things men can learn by reading and others they have to screw
up on their own to learn.

Great post, Bill.  The gem of what you wrote is that despite good advice, many men have to try it for themselves.  The original poster (Davey)  got dumped on because he had a date with Y (25 or 26 years old) and students who were likely in their early 20s.  But in the long term, I think it's good he had those dates.

Why, some ask?

Because a guy in his 40s is likely coming out of a dull, boring marriage and his dreams have died.   Such a time is not to move right back into the same situation.  Note--(not speaking here of Davey, who is 40 and never married).

But for this guy who has lived and failed and died of boredom, why not date some 20 something year olds? Have fun, live your fantasy, and get it out of your system!   This experience will show you that you better forget under age 28 if you want the maturity you need to move forward with.  But as Bill said above, men have to learn this for themselves.

What about the girl you say?  She too is experiencing a fantasy; handsome, rich (to her), foreign guy who speaks perfect English and knows how to treat a girl.

Davey, you did it.  Now follow the advice that many have given here and move on to a more "real" city and to an agency where the girls will really meet you.  At 40, you'll do well with girls 28-35, if you want to target those ages.   Keep on having fun, and learn about eastern european girls and their culture.  In time, it can all work out for you.

[Daveman]

I asked that of one UW.  An agency wanted me to meet this one young woman.  I protested because of the age disparity (25+), yet relented as the agency assured me she was special.

She was different with a great SOH and an infectious smile.  I asked her about our age difference and she played back the usual response.  Too which I asked, "Because I am the same age as your mama, is she available?"

"You would not like my mama.  She is fat."

"No problem.  She would lose that extra weight if with me."

"How?"

"I would chase her around the house all day, dragging her to bed."

 

She laughed loud and long.  I thought maybe we had something going.  Then when parting and talking about a second meeting, she asked me to go to a nearby cosmetics shop and buy her some French shampoo. 

"Paka."

No kidding... French shampoo..  I guess it must be good as the French do have the reputation of not bathing daily.  Must be clog dissolving strength!  

[Ade]

If you don't think that this trip report could be highly educational then you
aren't reading it the same way I am.

Maybe I'm hallucinating but I'm almost positive that just after that bit of my posted you selectively edited I said;

Anyway, I think your total failure really is educational to those misty eyed gullible guys out there that have been taken in by agency propaganda and think that there are droves of nubile young hotties just queuing up waiting for the next forty or fifty year old to step off the plane.

[Misha]

But for this guy who has lived and failed and died of boredom, why not date some 20 something year olds? Have fun, live your fantasy, and get it out of your system! 

I agree, dating a twenty-year old can be fun. I had some wonderful dates where I enjoyed the company of women who were 19 or 20. However, it is important not to get caught up in the fantasy and expect that all or even most 20-year-old RW would be dying to marry you.

[Daveman]

Great post, Bill.  The gem of what you wrote is that despite good advice, many men have to try it for themselves.  The original poster (Davey)  got dumped on because he had a date with Y (25 or 26 years old) and students who were likely in their early 20s.  But in the long term, I think it's good he had those dates.

Why, some ask?

Because a guy in his 40s is likely coming out of a dull, boring marriage and his dreams have died.   Such a time is not to move right back into the same situation.  Note--(not speaking here of Davey, who is 40 and never married).

But for this guy who has lived and failed and died of boredom, why not date some 20 something year olds? Have fun, live your fantasy, and get it out of your system!   This experience will show you that you better forget under age 28 if you want the maturity you need to move forward with.  But as Bill said above, men have to learn this for themselves.

What about the girl you say?  She too is experiencing a fantasy; handsome, rich (to her), foreign guy who speaks perfect English and knows how to treat a girl.

Davey, you did it.  Now follow the advice that many have given here and move on to a more "real" city and to an agency where the girls will really meet you.  At 40, you'll do well with girls 28-35, if you want to target those ages.   Keep on having fun, and learn about eastern european girls and their culture.  In time, it can all work out for you.

Excellent posts and points, Simoni, Bill

I've seen this in action from having several extended visits over there.  The starry eyed visions or illusions of grandeur as I've called it in other threads could fall right here under the term 'mutual fantasy'. They both have a part in the fantasy.  Of course, some guys are sincere and caught up in the whirlwind; others are truly borderline nutcases (same for the women).

Those starry eyes usually don't go away until a man has lived it, regardless of what anyone here could possibly say to him.  Live and learn.

DaveyJ has done exactly what we speak about... GET OVER THERE and see it for yourself.  He did it. Hopefully he won't miss the lessons and will take some time to clear the head and try again.

Also agree with Vaughn.  Kiss St. Pete good-bye if you decide to search again, Daveyj.

Lastly, about that engagement.  I think that situation could have easily been a 'jealousy ploy'.  Use the WM (who won't be staying there anyway long term) to make the BF jealous and get a rise outta him, force his hand, whatever.  Could be mistaken there but that kind opf crap happens a lot everywhere. Especially with younger people.

[Simoni]

I agree, dating a twenty-year old can be fun. I had some wonderful dates where I enjoyed the company of women who were 19 or 20. However, it is important not to get caught up in the fantasy and expect that all or even most 20-year-old RW would be dying to marry you.

19 or 20?  I never went that young :-)

My point was that a 40 something year old guy with suppressed fantasies should do it and see what it is and get it out of his "system."
And I hope that such a guy is not dying to get married, but just experiencing new things.

[groovlstk]

If every factor is equal except age, a RW will naturally gravitate towards someone her age (as in not more than 2-4 years older).  However, never is everything equal.

I think this is a bit backwards. An older man had better bring a LOT MORE to the table than a younger suitor. Being a "better" prospect than most of his younger competitors in most cases isn't enough. We've discussed age differences ad nauseum, but as far as qualities that women look for in a man, she may evaluate his looks, education, etc. etc., but if there's a significant age difference that falls into an entirely separate category. 

[Misha]

19 or 20?  I never went that young :-) My point was that a 40 something year old guy with suppressed fantasies should do it and see what it is and get it out of his "system." And I hope that such a guy is not dying to get married, but just experiencing new things.

Hey, I confess, I lived through my going through a break-up exploration phase and the usual few infatuations that follow. I am human  :evil: What my experience taught me is that women in Russia in their early twenties will often be more than happy to go out with you if you foot the bill. As noted, I had some dates, had some nice conversations, and then quickly moved on to women in their late twenties once I was ready for a real relationship. As I turned 40 this Saturday, I am close to Dave's age. My wife is now 29 and when we met she was 26. When we met she was already disillusioned with her prospects of finding a husband locally, had already finished her partying stage years earlier, and was looking for a good man to be her husband.

To sum up, it is quite easy to date women in their twenties in Russia and this is does not matter whether you are in St. Petersburg or a small city in the middle of Siberia. However, expecting that she will want a meaningful relationship is much less likely IMHO.

[daveyj]

Within the thread there are those posters riding the high of a transparent shaudenfreude in the misfortune of another.  Not uncoincidentally most of them are already on my ignore list, so I'll not respond to them.  But I do wish they weren't so mean to others - I think they do a great disservice to the board.

To the others, I'm sure that many newbies will benefit from your generous sharing of your knowledge on these matters.

Much has been made of my "criteria" of (under 30, 7+, cosmopolitan lifestyle living in St.Petersburg).  Of course these were not absolute rules, but merely guidelines.

Nonethelss, I'd like to highlight that everyone has zoomed in to focus on the "under 30, 7+" and most posters either ignored (or were confused by) the "cosmopolitan lifestyle living in St.Petersburg".

Regarding the former, I met women in both of my trips who demonstrated clear interest in developing a relaitionship with me and were "under 30, 7+".  I really don't think it's that hard.  I just don't think they specifically are who I'm looking for.

Regarding the latter, allow me to provide some more context...  

I've spent a large portion of my life in the arts, and it is a huge part of who I am, how I live, and how I think and behave.  Further, I live in the downtown arts core of a city of 5+million.  Thus I chose St.Pete's specifically because it was the FSU city that seemed most similar to where I live.

Having visited St.Petes twice, it seems to me that many of the women there would experience a smooth transition in a move to my town, and similarly would feel comfortable in this sort of environment.

Further I figured that in the same way that most actresses move from their small town to NY or LA, many of the types of woman I'm looking for would similarly move to St.Pete's (Russia's artistic capital).  So it seemed to me to be the perfect place to go.

As an analogy, if someone loves mountain climbing then I think it would be a beautiful thing for them to find a life partner who also loves mountain climbing.

In my case I love living in my artistically vibrant urban city, and I'd like someone that feels comfortable with that and can embrace that lifestyle.  

Last summer I made some changes so I could refocus my lifestyle away from work and more towards starting a family.  At that time it seemed like a FSU bride would help to fasttrack that process.  

Since then I've thrown myself headlong into the process, and regrettably I know recognise that the type of woman I'm looking for is probably among the least likely to want to relocate to a foreign country.  

If I continue with the process I'm sure that eventually I'll find someone (whether in Piter or elsewhere).  But in the context of the time, effort and money spent thus far, it seems like I'd be better off spending the next several years focusing on my hometown (which has a Russian/Ukrainian population of 300k btw).  Really, it seems silly to me now that I didn't first aggressively explore my local possibilities.

So to summarize, I'm not giving up on love & happiness.  And really I'm already taking the advice of looking away from Piter.  It's just that I'm looking 5000 miles away, to the women in my hometown.  And if some of the pots I have on simmer in the FSU start to heat up, then great.  And if things don't work out, then maybe I'll revisit my FSU options in the future

As I conclude my post, I know that there will inevitably be those who will misread or misundertand (or perhaps I've not written clearly enough?).  I can only say, love it or leave it, and vive le difference.  

I wish all of you all the best (even those on my ignore list).

[GoodOlBoy]

Sorry, but I am even more confused now after reading your post.

Your "WISH LIST" consists of the following:

You want a MATURE FSU "girl" in her 20's ?

I assume she would be pretty (not Butt Ugly).

Maybe with an artistic background.

Cosmopolitan lifestyle.

Wanting to leave her life in St. Petersburg to live with a 40 year old man?

Good Luck.


GOB


BTW... What is this  "under 30, 7+"  cr*p?

I guess you are in some sort of denial process.

Just say it: "I am 40 something years old and I want a 20 something year old Hottie.".  :evil:

[Vinnvinny]

Further I figured that in the same way that most actresses move from their small town to NY or LA, many of the types of woman I'm looking for would similarly move to St.Pete's (Russia's artistic capital).  So it seemed to me to be the perfect place to go.

I can sympathise with this. I was looking for a ‘Docker’ which is why I chose Kherson. 

[mendeleyev]

you did not mention marriage until being asked.  Which is an indication to a Russian woman, that she was not a candidate to be your wife.  So you were treated like an acquaintance: if there is time to meet, we'll meet.  If something more important comes up, then she just cancels.  Russian women take serious relationships seriously.  If you are interested, you need to show it

Excellent advice, Tamara.

Daveyj, my wife is a successful professional artist and I understand much of your thinking in choice of St P. We spend a moderate amount of time in Petr while based in Moscow. In reading over the TR, like Tamara I came away with the very strong impression that none of these ladies considered you as being serious.  Given your investment in prior preparation, time and money, that had to hurt.

What a girl in Russia (or Ukraine/Belarussia) wants to do is make a big deal of your arrival. That includes meals at her home, meeting her immediate family and then extended family, showing you around her city and to her friends, etc.  She should have spent weeks in nervous anticipation of your arrival. If you do it right, her family and friends will have been talking for weeks about how a special man is coming across the oceans for one great purpose--visit her.

Hard to accomplish when she's 1 of 30 you hope to contact.

And dear Lord in Heaven when she discovers that she's 1 of 30....no wonder you got so many excuses and noshows.

Please don't misunderstand as I'm not making fun, but from a culture perspective the excuses offered were neither real nor typical. These girls as Tamara pointed out, likely saw you as non-serious guy who just happened to be in town and if they could fit into the schedule, great....and if not, no big deal.

Guys who travel there and then plan to "date" (away from her family) like they do in the USA often are asking for heartache and misunderstandings. You have to date like they do there--in many cases that means more family involvement, and less time "alone."

Compliments: You seem like a guy willing to study some Russian, willing to learn, and brave enough to travel. You've given some good thought to making a lady comfortable in your home city. Living downtown: We do also. It means a lot for my wife to be in the центр (center) as that is where the art is in large cities. I think your planning in this sense makes is well thought out.

Refine the approach and narrow the choices so that upon arrival a girl, or a very small number (not all in the same locale) are excited about your arrival.

And don't be afraid to try Moscow either as the arts community there is just as vibrant, and probably more diverse, than Petr. Knowing the region, I'd quickly list Kyiv (Ukraine) on the same "short list" of cities which have a deep appreciation of the arts.

The other approach might be to go and do local advertising (newspapers, etc) and meet to start the process, then return home where you work on narrowing a few relationships via email and phone conversations and plan for additional visits.

[Misha]

I've spent a large portion of my life in the arts, and it is a huge part of who I am, how I live, and how I think and behave.  Further, I live in the downtown arts core of a city of 5+million.  Thus I chose St.Pete's specifically because it was the FSU city that seemed most similar to where I live.

Most universities in most most Russian cities will offer art programs, and you will be able to find artists in most Russian cities.

Also, every Russian city that I visited in Russia with more than 50,000 people offered a pretty similar way of life: most people lived in concrete apartment buildings 10-15 stories high and these apartment buildings were pretty much the same everywhere in Russia. True, the downtown cores may be different architecturally, but the neighborhoods where people actually live in cities is pretty much identical from one city to the next. Main distinguishing feature of the really large cities in Russia from the smaller ones IMHO is the fact that they would have a metro (subway) and the larger cities these past few years had more job opportunities for young, well-educated and motivated Russians [this, of course, may change with the economic crisis].  True, bigger cities have more theaters, art galleries and so forth in addition to stores and other services, but they still offer a "city" experience. A woman, IMHO, would not be necessarily out-of-place in a large American city even if she was from a smaller city. She would have to learn her way around, but that would be true even for a woman from St. Petersburg or Moscow.

Having visited St.Petes twice, it seems to me that many of the women there would experience a smooth transition in a move to my town, and similarly would feel comfortable in this sort of environment.

I would not count on it. She will likely experience culture shock and loneliness even if she is from St. Peterburg.

Further I figured that in the same way that most actresses move from their small town to NY or LA, many of the types of woman I'm looking for would similarly move to St.Pete's (Russia's artistic capital).  So it seemed to me to be the perfect place to go.

As an analogy, if someone loves mountain climbing then I think it would be a beautiful thing for them to find a life partner who also loves mountain climbing.

Have you made any contacts with art galleries or artists in Russia? Though your principle is correct, I would add that just because there are mountains nearby does not mean that everybody will be a mountain climber. In other words, just because a woman lives in "Russia's artistic capital" does not mean that she will be artistic or even interested in the arts. Best to look for woman who shares common interests with you.

In my case I love living in my artistically vibrant urban city, and I'd like someone that feels comfortable with that and can embrace that lifestyle.

This is good, but you have to search for the person who fits this criteria. She may be in St. Petersburg and she may be from another city. 

Since then I've thrown myself headlong into the process, and regrettably I know recognise that the type of woman I'm looking for is probably among the least likely to want to relocate to a foreign country.

Again, this depends IMHO. I am sure there are many artistic women in the FSU who would love to live in a large city.   

Really, it seems silly to me now that I didn't first aggressively explore my local possibilities.

I agree with you here. If you can find someone locally, it will certainly be much simpler in terms of finances and bureaucratic paperwork.

[mendeleyev]

every Russian city that I visited in Russia with more than 50,000 people offered a pretty similar way of life: most people lived in concrete apartment buildings 10-15 stories high and these apartment buildings were pretty much the same everywhere in Russia.

And many ladies in smaller areas have an appreciation for the arts too. Some of these girls can recall vividly back to the day their small town school or arts club climbed aboard a bus to spend a day in Moscow at the Bolshoi, Cat's Theatre, Tretyakov Gallery and Palace of Culture as one of the special highlights of her life.

[GoodOlBoy]

To the others, I'm sure that many newbies will benefit from your generous sharing of your knowledge on these matters.

Good God man, I just realized something.

You were in St. Petersburg?

I was there for almost 2 weeks and I spent almost 2 days of that time at the Hermitage Museum and I am not even an artist.

The Hermitage is HUGE.

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/index.html

On your lonely days and nights, why didn't you hang out there?

The Hermitage is crawling with girls/artists/students ?


GOB

[Simoni]

Sorry, but I am even more confused now after reading your post.

Your "WISH LIST" consists of the following:

You want a MATURE FSU "girl" in her 20's ?

I assume she would be pretty (not Butt Ugly).

Maybe with an artistic background.

Cosmopolitan lifestyle.

Wanting to leave her life in St. Petersburg to live with a 40 year old man?

Good Luck.


GOB


BTW... What is this  "under 30, 7+"  cr*p?

I guess you are in some sort of denial process.

GOB:

Hello, South Pole...this is North Pole.

Yes, we are polar opposites!

You say you are "even more confused now after reading" his post.
I think Davey's last post was extremely clear, and the info alters the advice I will give him.

He lives in the city center and wants a girl who will like this atmosphere.   Yes, it's better to look in St Pete rather than in a small UA city.  He needs a woman who will appreciate the arts and downtown life.  He needs a city girl.  I know this from personal experience.  I took a girl out of the city center and she whithered.  Now we live downtown and she has blossomed.   What Davie shared IS important.

You also questioned his "under 30, 7+"  criterial and told him that as a 40 year old he was " in some sort of denial process."

I don't know what part of the fsu you have traveled to, but it is the NORM that a 40 year old guy can marry a 7+ fsu girl.  That is simple fact.

And Davie added more info in his post by saying he would like a child.  That also says to me, and MDs, that it is better to look for a girl age 25-32.

Very clear post.   Good info.

Goodbye, South Pole...

[Misha]

He lives in the city center and wants a girl who will like this atmosphere.   Yes, it's better to look in St Pete rather than in a small UA city.  He needs a woman who will appreciate the arts and downtown life.  He needs a city girl.  I know this from personal experience.  I took a girl out of the city center and she whithered. 

Well, not all women from a smaller city will "wither" in a bigger city. I agree that he needs a woman who will appreciate the arts and downtown life, but not every woman who lives in St. Pete will fit this criteria, and not every woman who lives in a smaller city will be excluded either.

[GoodOlBoy]

GOB:

Hello, South Pole...this is North Pole.



 He needs a woman who will appreciate the arts and downtown life. 

Ho Ho Ho!....From the land of the "Mental Midgets"

How's the weather Simoni, in the land of the "Anointed One's"?

Well at least we agree on one thing, he needs to look for a WOMAN.

Not a 20 year old "hung over" schoolgirl.  :evil:

I don't know what part of the fsu you have traveled to, but it is the NORM that a 40 year old guy can marry a 7+ fsu girl.  That is simple fact.

40 year old Man and a 20 year old Schoolgirl?

I don't think so.

You might want to check our latest RWD Polls for the "facts".


GOB

[Gator]

Daveyj,

So you want to marry an artistic woman!  Having been immersed in the arts for much of your life, you are familiar with the personality of the artist.  My few artistic friends/lovers have been various shades of exuberant, unpredictable, mercurial, intuitive, dedicated to their field to the exclusion of others, indulgent to the point of hedonism, promiscuous, and enigmatic. 

Now add the whims of “youth” into the equation, and I understand why you received frustratingly little inclination from your St. Piter dyevs towards the future.

If you are indeed looking for someone with an artistic background, you were fishing in one of the best ponds.  This neglected women in other parts of the FSU who have been educated in the arts or so employed (more of the former than the latter). 

Nevertheless, romancing artistic women will not follow a normal path.  So I agree with your conclusion to concentrate on Toronto, or wherever you live.  FSU artists with take too much time.