So, you want to marry a younger Russian woman.

[David1963]

 

I haven't read all of these posts on the thread but did read the first page and get the sense of this.

If you are 45 and don't know if you want children then it is irresponsible for you to get married to a woman in her 20's who does not have children, it borders on selfish.  You can find a lovely woman in her 30's who has children.

I don't feel sorry for Jack, I do hope he makes a better decision next time.  I feel sorry for the young lady who was dupped into believing a man 45 would be willing to have children.  I know there are some and she should have made sure but this responsibility falls heavier on the older person.

I hope that she finds the trip to America was worth the wasting of 6 years of her life.

 

[Oosik]

For the mathematically non-gifted:
IF RW live to be 73, and RM live to be 58, that is an age difference of 15 years. So if an RW marries a man her age she will probably be a widow for 15 years.

If AM live to be 78 (last # I saw) and RW live to be 73, then if they marry at the same age she will be a widow for about 5 years. Add a decades age difference, and the length of widowhood in the average circunstance will be about the same, ceterus parabus.

But certerus is not parabus. An RW who comes over in her early 20's will probably live just as long as AW. But still, she knew before she came that she would be a widow in Russia or Ukraine for some years if she was lucky enough to marry and stay married, so she is mentally ready for that. Add to it the fact that she will probably live longer here.

Anyway, that's how I try to rationalize it so I don't feel guilty with a fiance 16.5 years younger. Only she was already fairly certain she would never be able to be married, and if she did, it would be to someone far less kind than I. So I don't feel too bad about robbing the cradle, but I certainly appreciate her more for being so young and yummy (true confession time).

Per the thought at the front of the thread, If you marry someone who says she wants kids, you better give her the kids or don't marry her, or else it's a breach of emotional contract, and you will be wasting her time and a number of her years of youth and beauty, years she would rather give to the man who will give her kids. "L" and I both said we want kids before our engagement, therefore we will have them (God willing), we each are obligated to fulfill that wish that the other has.

[bonbon]

Tiger,

Viagra, medications, etc... What are you talking about? Ask any woman  who is about to have sex wiht an old man who is filled with all sorts  of medications, how she feels about that. I bet, the answer will be  that she'd worry more about his health than about sex. She'd go through  all sorts of scenarios how she'd have to call 911 and explain to them  what happened, or a guy dies while having sex. It's embarassing, let  alone scary.  She'd give up having sex and little by little will  become bitter and will make life miserable for both of them. I heard of  a couple, they're my very distant relatives. I've never met them  personally though. He was much older than her - 21 year difference, if  I'm not mistaken. He died having sex with her. After that she was taken  to a hospital for crazy people and spent a few years there before  dying. She got gray hair instantly, right when he died having sex with  her, and all her hair turned white from black. This is how much I know.  I can only imagine what she had to experience at that moment. :huh:

[Shadow]

bonbon,

How can any person who has the same age but has been brought up in a different society with different values communicate with you ? This is the same as the question you are asking.

If the age gap is less, that does not mean the people have the same experience. Some movies and series never made it to Russia. The older women were raised under communism and have different backgrounds and ideas.

This means that when finding a wife from the FSU we do have to bridge a gap in knowledge and behaviour. It does not matter if there is an age gap or not. What is important is to find a compatible person.

[bonbon]

Exactly, Oosik. I bet he knew up front he didn't want any more kids and  responsibilities raising them. Someone who's that old is mature enough  to decide that before he marries someone. It think it was dishonest and  he simply used her and ruined her dreams about a real family with kids.  I'm sorry for being straightforward and calling things by their names.  I don't justify his actions at all and feel deeply sorry for the girl  and her wasted time.

[Bruno]

How can a 20+ younger person know what you're talking about if she has been living in a totally different time?

In the case of Tiger, he have marry a younger woman... but he have find a woman from a forget little city in middle of siberia... in so little isolated city, mentality of young women CAN BE like from the mentality from our western country 40 year ago...

Same difference can exist localy... take a US woman who have always life in the center of New-york and a woman who is from a farm is middle of nowhere... they are two different creature...

Take two women from the same city... you can have one who like discoteek and the other who like opera...

Only need to find the compatible soulmate... of course, the difference of age don't help, it reduce the chance to find the right compatible partner but it is not impossible...

Previously, i have choice to search women who have +-5 year age gap with me... but i am now with a women who is more that 10 year younger that me... we have become friend before i know she was a woman... we have become soulmate before i know her age... we have begin feel feeling for each other before we see a photo of the other... we seem to be compatible... do i need stop these relation because our difference of age ? Certainly not, our chance to be mutual right partner is more high that in my previous relation...

[bonbon]

Shadow, and what is a "compatible person"?

[Shadow]

bonbon, someone who shares similar interests, who has an equal sense of humour. Who likes the same food, same way to spend time etc.

I have a friend of 55 who spends lots of time in the Amsterdam clubs and discos. I am 15 years his minor and do not think of going there, as I would feel too old for the crowd. My friend could easily keep up with a 20-25 y.o. girl.

[bonbon]

That's the thing, Shadow. What if their interests differ? Say, she likes skiing and he likes pubs.:?  I've already said before that I totally understand a mutual drive  towards each other, for exmaple, between an old music professor and his  young student, their love for music. They live for it.  How about skiing and pubs then? Also, equal sense of humor: how can she  understand his favorite 'Simpsons' if she has no idea what it is all  about and what happened in 60's and 70's?

I'm not trying to say that large age difference marriages will all  fail. What I'm trying to say is that those marriages could be tough for  either party. Not only the cultural differences add to the mess, but  also the big age gap. That's twice as hard than a same age  international marriages. Those marriages are a much bigger risk. I'd  love to hear from those who have lived together for more than 5-10  years in a 12-20-25 yrs difference marriages.

[Oosik]

How can you say it is twice as hard for int'l marriages? It is more common for a RW/UW to marry a guy 10+ years older than it is in the US. The US feminist movement is trying to encourage 0 age difference, because they see age differences as an unhealthy power imbalance.

[bonbon]

Interesting, Oosik, where did you get such an information that it is  more common for a FSU women to marry a men who are 10+ yrs older. What  they say in their profiles is not what they really want. Yes, they  agree to a bigger age gap, but only because many of them are desperate.  Most women of 30+ are divorced and have kids. They have to work hard  and often they don't get any help from the gov't or their ex-husbands.  They really are desperate and agree to marry anyone who'd take them out  of powerty. Many of them work 2 jobs and still struggle. Only very  young girld who are 20-25 often might not have kids or previous  marriages. And those girld usually are looking for someone of their own  age. Other than that, most women on the dating sites are in a desperate  situation. If they have a choice, they'd marry either a guy of their  own age span or a richer guy. Often they choose the "richer", or they  think he's richer because he's older. The ONLY reason why they marry  older guys is that they believe older men are richer, have worked  longer and have saved more. One thing most of them have in common is  that they don't understand how much money a divorced AM pays his  ex-wife for alimonies. Also, they tent not to realize the credit system  in whole since they've never known credit cards or personal check and  bank account systems. They're used to having cash and ralying on it or  their savings they keep at home, not in a bank. Usually. They don't  realize how it is possible to be deep into debt. They don't know the  depriciation of money. They've no idea what a Future Value Annuity is  all about. They don't know how little retirement money might be out  there and how little this money can buy. They know NOTHING about the  whole money system in the West. They don't even understand that it is  necessary to have a car insurance, how much it costs, etc. They don't  understand how come Americans buy houses NOT FOR CASH like most of them  still do in the FSU. They have no clear idea what mortgage is. They  don't understand why have a house insurance. They don't apprehend how  can Americans be so careful with money and count every cent, while FSU  people used to living like there's no tomorrow. They've seen inflations  and lost all their savings so many times that they simply don't  understand many things or that things might be different. That's why  when you marry them, they tend to overspend. But let meget back to the  subject.

Many dating agencies purposely deceive foreign men by saying that FSU  women WANT to marry older men. No, they DON'T. They lie and you believe  it. They prefer men of their own age. But the agencies want to sell  their "products" and will tell you anything you want to hear. Just like  used cars dealers. Listen but divide it at least in half. Ask any woman  on the Russian forum and you'll see that a VAST MAJORITY of them prefer  to marry men with no more than 8-10 yrs difference. If they do marry  someone much older: a) they have no time or strength to wait and look  for someone else; b) they think older men will give them more money and  security (which is often not true); 3) they want kids and they don't  know anyone around them who is available and able of having kids.   Maybe there are some other reasons, but those would be rather minor  ones.

[Admin]

Many dating agencies purposely deceive foreign men by saying that FSU  women WANT to marry older men. No, they DON'T. They lie and you believe  it. They prefer men of their own age. But the agencies want to sell  their "products" and will tell you anything you want to hear. Just like  used cars dealers. Listen but divide it at least in half. Ask any woman  on the Russian forum and you'll see that a VAST MAJORITY of them prefer  to marry men with no more than 8-10 yrs difference. If they do marry  someone much older: a) they have no time or strength to wait and look  for someone else; b) they think older men will give them more money and  security (which is often not true); 3) they want kids and they don't  know anyone around them who is available and able of having kids.   Maybe there are some other reasons, but those would be rather minor  ones.

I did not use an agency, so have no first-hand experience with which to reply. My sense is that you are generally correct and there are, unfortunately, at least some agencies who are unscrupulous about promoting their 'wares' and have no conscience about who they hurt in the process - male or female.

OTOH, I also have had the genuine pleasure of meeting quite a number of people who either own agencies, or are otherwise involved with agencies in some way. At least a few are extremely conscientious and concerned about the welfare of their customers - both male and female.

I find your arguments just a bit too broad-sweeping to be valid.

- Dan

[TigerPaws]

Tiger, it is great when there is love, mutual respect and need, and  understanding, and it is true for both same-age and  large-age-difference marriages. It is even better when the two are good  friends.  But how do you know you WILL get it all and will be good  friends when marrying a much younger person who grew up in a different  generation and actually in a different world, and has different values?  

[color="blue"][size="4"]bonbon, how do any two people know anything about each? By  exploring each other, age difference or not? People learn to trust, to be friends and lovers to live together over time, their age difference has little to do with it is they have the desire to be together and make a relationship work.[/size][/color]

I can be good friends with people I grew up with or with fellow  students, but I don't see myself being a "good friend" wiht my in-laws, [color="blue"][size="4"]Who is?[/size][/color] for example, just because I don't identify myself with them in this  sense. We do have a wonderful relationship, but we'll never be "good  friends." It's that simple. Of course, we can discuss various things  and have great conversations, play table games and stuff, but being  "good friends" is a utopia. I simply don't see how this is possible  because for me being good friends means being close in our minds and  really understanding each other. It is like watching 'Simpsons' and  understanding every joke or nuance the same way. Would your wife really  understand your needs if she can't understand your era you grew up in  and your generation's special things and needs? [color="blue"][size="4"]Yes and it does not matter so who cares, I do not nore do many others. [/size][/color]You can tell me a  million of times that no, no and no, but I know that deep down you wish  you had not only a physical aspect of your life being satisfactory, but  also the spiritual one.[color="blue"][size="4"]You are making a huge assumption about someone you do not know.[/size][/color] Human beings are social creatures and  communication is probably even more important than sex [color="blue"][size="4"]Only a woman would make that statement:toocool:[/size][/color], no matter what  men would say. Yes, sex is imoprtant, but how much can one have sex?  24/7?   I  don't think so. Communication takes much more time and is way much more  important for men than they think it is, although they wouldn't admit  that. At least not all of them would. And even the desire of being  together with a woman is driven not purely by just wanting to have sex,  but by a desire to be with someone who would really  understand  you and know what you're talking about. How can a 20+ younger person  know what you're talking about if she has been living in a totally  different time? [color="blue"][size="4"]Like so many things understanding comes with time, common ground is unnecessary, you are amking HUGE assumptions with no facts, typical woman.[/size][/color]

[TigerPaws]

Tiger,

Viagra, medications, etc... What are you talking about? Ask any woman  who is about to have sex wiht an old man who is filled with all sorts  of medications, how she feels about that. I bet, the answer will be  that she'd worry more about his health than about sex. She'd go through  all sorts of scenarios how she'd have to call 911 and explain to them  what happened, or a guy dies while having sex. It's embarassing, let  alone scary.  She'd give up having sex and little by little will  become bitter and will make life miserable for both of them. I heard of  a couple, they're my very distant relatives. I've never met them  personally though. He was much older than her - 21 year difference, if  I'm not mistaken. He died having sex with her. After that she was taken  to a hospital for crazy people and spent a few years there before  dying. She got gray hair instantly, right when he died having sex with  her, and all her hair turned white from black. This is how much I know.  I can only imagine what she had to experience at that moment.

[color="blue"][size="4"]bonbon you are grasping at straws, looking for any reason to support an unsupportable position and you have come to understand this but you are unwilling or unable to admit it. Give it up you have lost in this discussion.[/size][/color]

[TigerPaws]

Exactly, Oosik. I bet he knew up front he didn't want any more kids and  responsibilities raising them. Someone who's that old is mature enough  to decide that before he marries someone. It think it was dishonest and  he simply used her and ruined her dreams about a real family with kids.  I'm sorry for being straightforward and calling things by their names.  I don't justify his actions at all and feel deeply sorry for the girl  and her wasted time.

[size="4"][color="blue"]bonbon you are being extremily crass and unkind to someone you do not know anything about, someone who in detail explained what happened in his relationship and he was under no obligation to do so.
 You are in NO position to sit in judgement on Jack Bragg, nor is anyone else for that matter and you should apologize for your extremily unknid comments.
[/color][/size]

[TigerPaws]

That's the thing, Shadow. What if their interests differ? Say, she likes skiing and he likes pubs.:?  I've already said before that I totally understand a mutual drive  towards each other, for exmaple, between an old music professor and his  young student, their love for music. They live for it.  How about skiing and pubs then? Also, equal sense of humor: how can she  understand his favorite 'Simpsons' if she has no idea what it is all  about and what happened in 60's and 70's?

I'm not trying to say that large age difference marriages will all  fail. What I'm trying to say is that those marriages could be tough for  either party. Not only the cultural differences add to the mess, but  also the big age gap. That's twice as hard than a same age  international marriages. Those marriages are a much bigger risk. I'd  love to hear from those who have lived together for more than 5-10  years in a 12-20-25 yrs difference marriages.

[color="blue"][size="4"]bonbon, you have been hearing from several people (me included) with a minimum of 5 years together with their RW/UW, try listening to what people are trying to tell you for a change.[/size][/color]

[TigerPaws]

Interesting, Oosik, where did you get such an information that it is  more common for a FSU women to marry a men who are 10+ yrs older. [color="red"][size="4"]I can not speak for Oosk but I have lived and worked in Russia for over 3 years and it was my experience that age was but one of many factors in a ladies choice in men.[/size][/color] What  they say in their profiles is not what they really want. Yes, they  agree to a bigger age gap, but only because many of them are desperate.[color="red"][size="4"]And you point is? So what no one is forcing the girls to do anything they make their choices based on many reasons, wants and need as do all of us.[/size][/color]  Most women of 30+ are divorced and have kids. They have to work hard  and often they don't get any help from the gov't or their ex-husbands.  They really are desperate and agree to marry anyone who'd take them out  of powerty. Many of them work 2 jobs and still struggle. Only very  young girld who are 20-25 often might not have kids or previous  marriages.[color="red"][size="4"]Again so what bonbon, if a lady is willing to make some compromises what is wrong with that?[/size][/color] And those girld usually are looking for someone of their own  age. Other than that, most women on the dating sites are in a desperate  situation. If they have a choice, they'd marry either a guy of their  own age span or a richer guy. Often they choose the "richer", or they  think he's richer because he's older. The ONLY reason why they marry  older guys is that they believe older men are richer, have worked  longer and have saved more. [color="red"][size="4"]You have still not said what is wrong with this,  I do not see a problem, no one is being forced into anythinng and if both people are happy so what?[/size][/color]One thing most of them have in common is  that they don't understand how much money a divorced AM pays his  ex-wife for alimonies.[color="red"][size="4"]Sometimes we do not pay anything, sometimes a lot, again you are talking with any knowledge of the people you are describing.[/size][/color] Also, they tent not to realize the credit system  in whole since they've never known credit cards or personal check and  bank account systems. They're used to having cash and ralying on it or  their savings they keep at home, not in a bank. Usually. They don't  realize how it is possible to be deep into debt. They don't know the  depriciation of money. They've no idea what a Future Value Annuity is  all about. They don't know how little retirement money might be out  there and how little this money can buy. They know NOTHING about the  whole money system in the West. They don't even understand that it is  necessary to have a car insurance, how much it costs, etc. They don't  understand how come Americans buy houses NOT FOR CASH like most of them  still do in the FSU. They have no clear idea what mortgage is. They  don't understand why have a house insurance. They don't apprehend how  can Americans be so careful with money and count every cent, while FSU  people used to living like there's no tomorrow. They've seen inflations  and lost all their savings so many times that they simply don't  understand many things or that things might be different. That's why  when you marry them, they tend to overspend. But let meget back to the  subject. [color="red"][size="4"]Here again you do not know what you are talking about bonbon, this is something easily controlled and even though my lady had nearly unlimited resources available to her she always spent funds wisely. Sure it has taken a long time for her to begin to understand our (American) system so what is the big deal, that is what I am for to help her understand and that had NOTHING to do with our age difference.[/size][/color]
Many dating agencies purposely deceive foreign men by saying that FSU  women WANT to marry older men. No, they DON'T. They lie and you believe  it. They prefer men of their own age. But the agencies want to sell  their "products" and will tell you anything you want to hear. Just like  used cars dealers.[color="red"][size="4"]In general we may have a point of agreemnet here, all but a very few agencies are highly suspect in their business practices. Men also have to remember these are companies in business to make money so it is buyer beware.[/size][/color]  Listen but divide it at least in half. Ask any woman  on the Russian forum and you'll see that a VAST MAJORITY of them prefer  to marry men with no more than 8-10 yrs difference[color="red"][size="3"][size="4"]O[/size][size="4"]n this we disagree and you have yet to provide facts to back up your assertions[/size][/size][/color]. If they do marry  someone much older: a) they have no time or strength to wait and look  for someone else;[color="red"][size="4"]What please explain?[/size][/color] b) they think older men will give them more money and  security (which is often not true)[color="red"][size="4"]Maybe and maybe not, of all the couples we know this is the case, the ladies are far more secure in many ways.[/size][/color]; 3) they want kids and they don't  know anyone around them who is available and able of having kids. [color="red"][size="4"]Ok so what, I was willing and several others who have posted her have done the same, again so what?[/size][/color]  Maybe there are some other reasons, but those would be rather minor  ones.

[color="red"][size="4"]Yes minor as in non existand bonbon, you are running out of excuses for your contention that there is a problem with a 15 to 20 year age difference. I am not going to say there have never been problems with some people but then again that can happen at any age difference including no difference.[/size][/color]

[Bruno]

Human beings are social creatures and communication is probably even more important than sex Only a woman would make that statement:toocool:

I am a man and i agree... sex is a part of relationship but not the whole... with time, i can learn a woman to have good sex together but i have not enough with a lifespan for learn a bitch to be a good woman...

In some way, sex is a form of communication who show that you love your woman...

For sex only, without any other kind of communication/relation, you don't need a wife but a hooker... a relation with hooker is very simple, it is a business relation, money exchanged for sex... and if you wish only sex, hooker is cheaper that marry a RW...

[Todd]

I would like to respond to Oosik's calculation of life expectancies.  Demographic averages are quite misleading.  If you want to have some fun, you can take a 20 or 30 question quiz to figure out your life expectancy more exactly.  (Don't have any websites off the top of my head.)

Another way to figure out life expectancy (if your grandparents have lived to old age), average their 4 life expectancies and do +/- 5 years.  It actually gives a very rough rule of thumb.  

Also, I would tend to agree with what others have already said here that women coming to the US in their 20's should  have an AW's life expectancy after living here 20 years.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it would be BETTER if they continue with the better diet and get the benefit of better medical care.

[mischief]

My two cents:


Marriages with big age difference has existed for centuries….  There are different reason for different people to marry older partner… As long as they don't marry under compulsion and are ready to accept the consequences, nobody has the right to judge their will…

I always have been attracted to older men (guess it runs in the family)… so, I found an amazingly caring and sensitive man, who I'm comfortable with, who shares my goals and values, who understands me more than myself, who make my life brighter and happier every day… - I can go on and on…

SO -  should I care that some people might say: "She married her father" or " she sleeps with an old guy" … whatever?  - OR - Should I live my life the way I want to live, feel I want to feel…  do what I think is right to do?

Who cares if some people are narrow-minded and can't accept that there can be the other way! 

Besides, I've noticed if any person has been around successful couples with big age gap, he's less likely to comment negatively on this very subject…


Some examples of the couples I know with big age difference:

 My husband's friend  & co-worker (US) married to a guy (US) 35 years older, no kids, been together for 17 years (not married)… he is 76 and still in a good shape ( he used to train horses)… not sure about sex now but they seems perfectly right for each other..


My friend (Norway) married to a guy (Norway) 20 years older, 3 kids together and 20 years of marriage…

 My husband's brother (US) married to a woman (US) 15yrs younger, no kids together (she is an artist and seems never had a desire to have them), he has two boys from the first marriage… married for 13-14 years.. 

 My grandma (Poland) was 19 years younger than my grandpa… had two kids together and two of his previous marriage… lived 30 years together..

 And here is us with 25 yrs age difference and a beautiful baby-boy…

 

[Shadow]

That's the thing, Shadow. What if their interests differ? Say, she likes skiing and he likes pubs.:? I've already said before that I totally understand a mutual drive towards each other, for exmaple, between an old music professor and his young student, their love for music. They live for it. How about skiing and pubs then? Also, equal sense of humor: how can she understand his favorite 'Simpsons' if she has no idea what it is all about and what happened in 60's and 70's?

bonbon, a woman who lived in Russia in the 60's and 70's has NO IDEA what happened in the USA and western Europe at that time.

What you seem not to be able to grasp is that until the 90's there were as good as NO western movies or TV shows in Russia. The news was seen from a Russian angle.

Example: this Christmas I watched the movie 'White Christmas'with my fiancee. It was the FIRST TIME IN HER LIFE she saw it, and she is 32 years old.

Cultural differences between WM and RW who actively remeber the Soviet era may be even more than with the younger generation. Where the older guys lived through the 60's and 70's and long back to those times, the 90's were the 60's for RW. They might be able to relate better than the older generations.

[TigerPaws]

Cultural differences between WM and RW who actively remeber the Soviet era may be even more than with the younger generation. Where the older guys lived through the 60's and 70's and long back to those times, the 90's were the 60's for RW. They might be able to relate better than the older generations.[color="blue"][size="4"] [/size][/color]

[color="blue"][size="4"]Shadow,[/size][/color]
[color="blue"][size="4"]
 I could not help remembering a flight I took back in the 70's on a SAC (Strategic Air Command) B-52[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"][color="blue"] carrying 2 each 40 megaton warheads,  we were on patrol near Norway and there was little question what our target  would have been. Hells Bells my RW was not even born when I was ready to drop 2  city busting nukes on Russia, never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I  would be married to a Russian girl 30 years later. [/color]
[/size][/color]

[bonbon]

Apologize? For what? For having an opinion? Why wouldn't you, TP,   apologize for calling old women used up old bags? Don't tell me what to  do, and I won't tell you where to go. Ask your sweet RW to interpret  this saying to you.

I have many decades ahead of me before, according to you, I turn into  an "old bag", and so does your young wife. But when you're finally  gone, she will be close to being that "used up old bag" and nobody will  want her. She'll be sentenced to spending her life alone and you must  be happy, 'coz you'll never know what she's thinking and how much she  is regretting marrying an old used up bag herself.

I've said enough here, so don't expect me to respond any further. I  don't know what you've seen in Russia, but age IS an issue in marriages  there. You're just trying to assure yourself that you did a right  thing, while you know WHAT you was driven by when marrying a young  chick. Just if you're curions enough and if you can understand Russian,  my little advice: go to the Russian forums and see what those  brides-to-be say about old "perverts" and see HOW MUCH the're concerned  and HOW MUCH they DON'T want ending up marrying an old guy. I'm not  going to try to stop anyone from marrying a young poor girl because he  thinks he does her favor by taking her out of powerty. Nobody can  really do that as lewd old guys who try to get as much as possible out  of the youth that is long gone for them will always exist. The only  difference is that AM just have more money or think they have enough  money that any young chick will be happy to trade her youth for this  illusion.  Just wanted to point out to another side of this issue.

[TigerPaws]

Apologize? For what? For having an opinion? [color="red"][size="4"]You need to apologize because you no NOTHING about the person or who the relationship went and your comments were unkind and mean spirited. If you want to state an opinion then make it in general not to a specific person or persons. [/size][/color]Why wouldn't you, TP,   apologize for calling old women used up old bags? [color="red"][size="4"]Beause I did not call you or anyone else anything, just a comment in general, don't take is personally.[/size][/color]  Don't tell me what to  do [color="red"][size="4"]Well someone needs to suggest what is proper and polite.[/size][/color], and I won't tell you where to go. [color="red"][size="4"]Been to Hell and back as well as places you can not begin to imagine.[/size][/color] Ask your sweet RW to interpret  this saying to you.

I have many decades ahead of me before, according to you, I turn into  an "old bag", and so does your young wife. But when you're finally  gone, she will be close to being that "used up old bag" and nobody will  want her. She'll be sentenced to spending her life alone and you must  be happy, 'coz you'll never know what she's thinking and how much she  is regretting marrying an old used up bag herself. [color="red"][size="4"]Ok and your point is? What do I care when I or anyone else is dead and gone, seems to be a mute point.[/size][/color]

I've said enough here, [color="red"][size="4"]Ya! and too bad. [/size][/color]so don't expect me to respond any further. [color="red"][size="4"]LoL yes you are a lost cause. [/size][/color]I  don't know what you've seen in Russia, but age IS an issue in marriages  there. You're just trying to assure yourself that you did a right  thing,[color="red"][size="4"]Nope never look back and do not care much to your chagrin.[/size][/color] while you know WHAT you was driven by when marrying a young  chick. Just if you're curions enough and if you can understand Russian,[color="red"][size="4"]Yes i speak fairly well and read enough to keep myself out of trouble.[/size][/color]  my little advice: go to the Russian forums and see what those  brides-to-be say about old "perverts" and see HOW MUCH the're concerned  and HOW MUCH they DON'T want ending up marrying an old guy.[color="red"][size="4"]Not interested because it does no apply.[/size][/color] I'm not  going to try to stop anyone from marrying a young poor girl because he  thinks he does her favor by taking her out of powerty. Nobody can  really do that as lewd old guys who try to get as much as possible out  of the youth that is long gone for them will always exist. The only  difference is that AM just have more money or think they have enough  money that any young chick will be happy to trade her youth for this  illusion.  Just wanted to point out to another side of this issue.
[color="red"][size="4"]Again I ask so what, if an attractive girl wants to make some compromises so what, it is not my place to agree or disagree only to take advantage of the oppertunities presented to me.[/size][/color]

[midwestcoast]

Jack, I don't know you but I could feel your pain and anguish at letting go the love of your life.  You and your wife made this decision and I honor you for the way you have helped her move to the next stage of life.  Most of us guys would not have done it so gracefully.

I wanted to quickly share two perspectives:  First, I am the oldest son (now age 50) of a father who had me when he was 54.  My mother was 39 at the time.  3 years later they added a second son.

Growing up in a mature family was wonderful.  My dad played sports with us and was very involved in our lives.  In fact, it was an advantage having a father who was mature enough to understand that his presence was important in our lives.  That gets lost on a lot of younger guys who only learn this lesson after their own children are teens are already grown.  My Dad lasted until 94 and my Mom died 9 months later.  Her death was a result of both cancer and grief over losing my Dad.  They had a unique and lasting love.

Perspective number 2:  I married a Russian woman from Moscow 3 years ago.  (I will never again marry a big city Russian woman because they have discovered money in the big cities).  We were happy at first but ran into some immigration snags which I won't detail here other than to say that getting married in Russia was a HUGE mistake and the USCIS made us pay for it with continual delays and mistakes.  Guys, do the K1 fiance process, it is so much easier for the overwhelming number of Hispanic USCIS staff members to understand and process.  Don't give them a complicated task to accomplish, it will get butchered.

Unfortunately she lived with her mother, a well known professor and still a member of the Communist party, who had never been keen on her daughter moving to America.  At each USCIS immigration mis-step, her mother ensured that I pay dearly in emotional and mental terms. 

I was 47 and she was 36.  She had a teenage daughter and I had 2 grown daughters.  At first, another child was not important to her.  But as she grew closer to 40 it became a big deal.  She got pregnant during one of my frequent visits to Moscow but we lost the baby in a miscarriage about 45 days into it.  That prompted me to want to have the next baby only after she had arrived in the USA because of the medical care situation.  She could not understand why and it cost me later.

To complicate matters, her teenage daughter decided to go live with her Dad during the school year because he could place her into an exclusive private international English school in the city of Kaluga.  Her daughter was smart and with both grandmothers being professors at major Russian universities, an almost free advanced education was on the horizon.  However it also meant that the daughter would remain in Russia to pursue this opportunity.

I visited in September of 2005 and thought all was fine.  The immigration was finally close to approval (after 2 years) thanks to the assistance of my Congressman.  She would be awarded an immediate green card, without the normal waiting period, because of the USCIC mishandling of our case.

In November she was informed of the immigration approval and told to make an embassy appointment to pick up the visa.  She phoned and told me that she wasn't coming. Her daughter had decided to stay in Russia for the education opportunities.  She wanted me to move to Russia.  I had lived there previously as a journalist and knew that the employment opportunities were not the same as a few years earlier.  Most news organizations were downsizing their Russian bureaus, and none were hiring.  I also needed to remain in my current company a few more years for future retirement benefits.

However I was willing to move but it would take some job research and planning.  She didn't want to wait.  She decided that we should divorce because she felt that her "birth clock" running and wanted a baby immediately.  She was not willing to leave her daughter behind.  She was exceptionally attractive and there were Russian guys coming out of the woodwork to court her as soon as our divorce process started.

It was painful and I still hurt every day.  But I've learned some valuable lessons for the next time.  Jack, you are right.  Children are the most important in their lives and they will hold you responsible for the lack of children.  And they will take whatever action necessary to ensure that they can have a baby.  Mainly due to the urging of my mother in law, my Christmas present was an official divorce request.

Even now, she calls to say that she misses me.  She says that she will always love me, but that she must move on in life.  Her mother had guys lined up to meet her and her new wedding is already planned and will take place as soon as our divorce is final.