Statistical abberation

[Ade]

Funny how you find negativity in almost everything. 

If you really knew me you'd know why that's quite funny. 

If someone wants to talk about their beliefs than what is the problem?  They are not forcing you to read it nor listen.  Put her on ignore if you don't like it. 

Dude, you realize this is a discussion forum, right? You know, a place where people talk, discuss, argue, share opinions, that sort of thing. Putting people on ignore because they have differing world views is a sign of a weak mind.

[LiveFromUkraine]

If you really knew me you'd know why that's quite funny. 

Dude, you realize this is a discussion forum, right? You know, a place where people talk, discuss, argue, share opinions, that sort of thing. Putting people on ignore because they have differing world views is a sign of a weak mind.

Sure, it is a forum for discussion, Dude.  We are talking about KenC in this thread.  This is not about your views about God and bible thumpers.   

Getting worked up over Anna's post seems weak minded as well.  But that should be for another thread.  Sorry, I don't know who you are.  Only through your posts get a idea of the person you are.  You post a lot of negative stuff imo.  I am glad to hear you are not as negative as I perceive you to be.

[Makkin]

SJ,

  It's always relevant when it comes to issues and the sides people take on religion.


   Let's take religion out of the issue shall we but at the same time look respectfully upon those who choose religion as a force they feel comfortable with.


   Many atheists have been informed through therapy that to discard religion they have known as a child was an attempt to cover the pain of events during childhood as well as the adult life. To go against the parents is a normal process as we can see right?
   Any person who chooses to accept a religious belief is free to do so and those who choose a radical approach on either side usually have issues that deal less with religion and more about the awakening of spiritual reality.
   I'm in agreement with many people in that to grow spritually one must accept whatever belif they have and work for positive results in the condition they have with the world in general. Those who can neither prove or maintain proof in either direction of the debate are as common as anyone.


   What has it got to do with anything you ask. It's has everything to do with being dogmatic about atheism as it does in many cases as being dogmatic about religion. I see little difference and yes you are a dogmatic type as are some religious folks.


Makkin

[tfcrew]

That's the time when I always say - what is there to bind you? What is there to bind both of you to each other forever? There are now vows to God or a promise to God! Legally - both you and her have a right for a divorce or separation. But then again - why marry then at all?  

I had a little trouble with that one too.
The vows are not to God nor are there any promises.
They are to each other.
Usually, the words are..'What God has joined, let no one put asunder.'
That was not the issue in this case.
Karl
 

[SANDRO43]

Grossly , however:

Many atheists have been informed through therapy that to discard religion they have known as a child was an attempt to cover the pain of events during childhood as well as the adult life.

Two-bit psychology I'd venture, why didn't you throw in the Oedipus complex as well ?

To go against the parents is a normal process as we can see right?

As if that were the only reason to reject religion(s). If it is so normal, why don't generations alternate between religious and atheist ?

Any person who chooses to accept a religious belief is free to do so

I doubt that someone who is raised in a religion is making much of a deliberate choice, in many cases. He/she is hearing only ONE side of the argument .

[KenC]

Just for the record, I was baptised Russian Orthodox but not very religious.  I do not take offense to the current topic of conversation in this thread.  I was not offended in the least by AA's email to me.  I understand that AA credits her own strength to her belief in God, which is fine by me.
KenC

[Ooooops]

Outcome of this particular marriage aside - how can anyone predict the future life at the time of saying the wedding vows?   Many things can go wrong and it's strange to say - she/he should have thought ahead of time.    Nobody here is an Oracle, right?   

[Jumper]

people change.
I am not the same person i was at 25 or at 30,,
 thank God.
this endless "young " or "old" age debate is silly to me,,
at 60 i wont be the same person i was at 30..
my wife will change as well. The starting marriage "age"  or more impotantly maturity/life experience ?"
may be relevant, but not nearly as much , as the level of CONTINUED commitment to each other.
through those changes that are bound to happen?

 the need to dissect something that happens in every marriage ,regardless of the couples ages ,, or thier age differences
is beyond me.
Every marriage , if it continues, survives merely on this one fragile thing?
the continued commitment, of the ever changing partners thru the phases of thier lives, to each other ,
(or to their ideals of personal commitment itself)

Could any single thing in this world , possibly be more unpredictable?

Anyone want  the "internet" to counterpoint thier  thoughts /emotions/commitments over the last decade?
 I know north county where KenC lives quite well,
not knocking it because i love the area,,but anyone care to give vegas odds on how long KenC marriage (or anyones) would last if married to any of the SD availible single residents?
(regardless age disparity)
10 years would be pushing well past the average folks

so how about a dose of reality?

odds are (and certainly true in SoCal)
no matter who you marry or what age they are ,, less than 50/50 shot you'll be married for ten years.

no that doesn't mean you shouldn't try and manage your risks.
but to hide from the reality , and try to minimize them by intentionally seeking someone "safer' to marry.. is just as silly?

love and commitment arnt always in tune with *safe*
life generally isnt that predictable or tidy.
(ken and lena took the time to know each other well, the single most important factor?)
To try and "manage" whom you should  have these deep and committed feelings for,,
 , seems impossible to me ,and odd in itself,
and its what we are doing  in this thread by dissecting Ken and Lenas decisions thru the last decade...

really, what could anyone learn? that would truly , in today's reality , make a difference in the ultimate outcome of their marriage?

sorry for the rant..
it isnt aimed at anyone..or at the group for that matter,

it's that I  just dont *get it*

From Maxxs story: we can learn the dangers of any of these type of romances..across cultures..
and to avoid some of the risks he took.(yes on his good intentions)

From kenC's:
 *seemingly* you can also learn not to take as big of risks?
plenty of reasons why..its not a good idea to take them..

but really? is that really true?

think about it.
let me know, because isn't that what the purpose of the thread was?

i "learned" that people change thru thier lives and sometimes the commiment to the institution of marriage ,
and to each other,  isn't strong enough to hold thru those changes.

it wasn't a shock ..
and it seems to be a very individual set of circumstances for everyone, with little hope of applying it to my own life other than in a very the way of a general awareness.

[KenC]

people change.
I am not the same person i was at 25 or at 30,,
 thank God.
this endless "young " or "old" age debate is silly to me,,
at 60 i wont be the same person i was at 30..
my wife will change as well. The starting marriage "age"  or more impotantly maturity/life experience ?"
may be relevant, but not nearly as much , as the level of CONTINUED commitment to each other.
through those changes that are bound to happen?

 the need to dissect something that happens in every marriage ,regardless of the couples ages ,, or thier age differences
is beyond me.
Every marriage , if it continues, survives merely on this one fragile thing?
the continued commitment, of the ever changing partners thru the phases of thier lives, to each other ,
(or to their ideals of personal commitment itself)

Could any single thing in this world , possibly be more unpredictable?

Interesting point, AJ.  Most of the information relayed here is in the form of generalities but the longevity of a relationship depends upon how deep the individual's commitment is to the relationship regardless of the "category" that individual falls in to.

Anyone want  the "internet" to counterpoint thier  thoughts /emotions/commitments over the last decade?
 I know north county where KenC lives quite well,
not knocking it because i love the area,,but anyone care to give vegas odds on how long KenC marriage (or anyones) would last if married to any of the SD availible single residents?
(regardless age disparity)
10 years would be pushing well past the average folks

so how about a dose of reality?
odds are (and certainly true in SoCal)
no matter who you marry or what age they are ,, less than 50/50 shot you'll be married for ten years.

So, AJ, you think that geographically speaking, marriages tend to last shorter in Southern California?  Why do you think that is true?

no that doesn't mean you shouldn't try and manage your risks.
but to hide from the reality , and try to minimize them by intentionally seeking someone "safer' to marry.. is just as silly?

love and commitment arnt always in tune with *safe*
life generally isnt that predictable or tidy.
(ken and lena took the time to know each other well, the single most important factor?)
To try and "manage" whom you should  have these deep and committed feelings for,,
 , seems impossible to me ,and odd in itself,
and its what we are doing  in this thread by dissecting Ken and Lenas decisions thru the last decade...

really, what could anyone learn? that would truly , in today's reality , make a difference in the ultimate outcome of their marriage?

sorry for the rant..
it isnt aimed at anyone..or at the group for that matter,

it's that I  just dont *get it*

From Maxxs story: we can learn the dangers of any of these type of romances..across cultures..
and to avoid some of the risks he took.(yes on his good intentions)

From kenC's:
 *seemingly* you can also learn not to take as big of risks?
plenty of reasons why..its not a good idea to take them..

but really? is that really true?

think about it.
let me know, because isn't that what the purpose of the thread was?

i "learned" that people change thru thier lives and sometimes the commiment to the institution of marriage ,
and to each other,  isn't strong enough to hold thru those changes.

it wasn't a shock ..
and it seems to be a very individual set of circumstances for everyone, with little hope of applying it to my own life other than in a very the way of a general awareness.

"Managing your risks" goes back to buying into generalities again.  I have seen many men make all the right decisions in selecting women the right age, in the right circumstances and take the right steps in preparation for a long term marriage and fail miserably in a much shorter amount of time.  Why?  Because love and commitment are individual characteristics that cannot be generalized.  It all falls back to the dynamics of the two people in the relationship and not preconceived notions of the category they fall in to.
KenC

[SANDRO43]

So, AJ, you think that geographically speaking, marriages tend to last shorter in Southern California?  Why do you think that is true?

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pyC7WnvLT4&feature=related[/youtube] 

[HiTech]

relationship depends upon how deep the individual's commitment is to the relationship

I agree with this, and in fact I think one of the better definitions of the word love as it relates to marriage is commitment.

It all falls back to the dynamics of the two people in the relationship and not preconceived notions of the category they fall in to.

But you confused me here Ken, this seems to speak against your prior statement. If the relationship depends on commitment, (which I agree) then how can the dynamics change this commitment. The dynamics can effect the ups and downs of daily life, but as Anna was referring to it is the commitment that should not change.

HiTech

[AnastassiaAsh]

i "learned" that people change thru thier lives and sometimes the commitment to the institution of marriage ,
and to each other,  isn't strong enough to hold thru those changes.

People do change and their perception of things do too, but if values and core beliefs change too then they were not true at the very beginning. Is there anything that a person can take through his or her whole life unchanged? If you allow yourself at the alter to think that there is a possibility that this commitment will change, then why marry at all? Do not promise what you are not sure you will be able to do in 10-20-50 years. How do people suppose to stay committed to each other all their lives, raise children and teach them the same values if their own values 'might change'?

Of course I am different now at 33 than when I was 15, but who I really am in my heart hasn't and never will. With such thinking why trying to minimize risks and finding the best person for you? Best, mediocre or worst - in 2-5-10 years marriage will fall apart any way, because people 'change'... Why searching for a Russian woman then, spending so much money, effort and so on? No matter how much she is better than any AW - it still doesn't mean she won't change and that commitment won't end...

Institution of marriage is probably the worst in CA with all the SF's gay scene, Hollywood, money and shallowness. It might be the best place to live, but not to raise your kids....

[AnastassiaAsh]

I agree with this, and in fact I think one of the better definitions of the word love as it relates to marriage is commitment.

Pretty close, but I think even further. Love is always associated with feelings, but feelings are not constant, they change, they come and go, they evolve within years. Your meaning of love changes too with age. But what do you do to keep the marriage any way? What actually keeps you from divorcing?
Commitment. Promise. 100% Devotion. That is something constant NO MATTER WHAT! With that idea in mind marriage can survive.

[GoodOlBoy]

Institution of marriage is probably the worst in CA with all the SF's gay scene,.........

Oh Lord Anastassia....You have done it now !  

Standby for the "howling" to begin !!!  :evil:

If you are not careful with your posts, you might be labeled the "Anita Bryant" of RWD. 

.....or worse "intolerant" of others.  :evil:


GOB



...........ooooh Sculpto !

[KenC]

relationship depends upon how deep the individual's commitment is to the relationship

"I agree with this, and in fact I think one of the better definitions of the word love as it relates to marriage is commitment."

It all falls back to the dynamics of the two people in the relationship and not preconceived notions of the category they fall in to.

"But you confused me here Ken, this seems to speak against your prior statement. If the relationship depends on commitment, (which I agree) then how can the dynamics change this commitment. The dynamics can effect the ups and downs of daily life, but as Anna was referring to it is the commitment that should not change."

HiTech

I do not see a conflict between the two statements at all.  Commitment is a part of the relationship's dynamics.
KenC

[Admin]

Institution of marriage is probably the worst in CA with all the SF's gay scene, Hollywood, money and shallowness. It might be the best place to live, but not to raise your kids....

Anna - and/or others,

This is something of a 'hot button' issue in America right now - witness the debacle over Miss California's Carrie Prejean. The comments led me to a related and important question however - and that is:

What are the biggest threats to marriage - and how are those threats different in a cross-cultural marriage?

Maybe someone can raise a new topic to address this?

BTW - regarding raising children. I moved out of South Florida and returned to Colorado for that every reason. At the time living in Palm Beach county, one could see the movement in crime rate from Dade (worst) to Broward (next county North of Dade) to Palm Beach (next county North of Broward). FWIW

- Dan

[Makkin]

Sandro,

  I suppose two-bit is all I can give you without your actual attention to sprituality rather than logic..lol.

  Please keep in mind that in the USA it is called "freedom of religion". Sadly I must inform the atheists that freedom of religion does not grant you...."Freedom from Religion".

Makkin

[SANDRO43]

  I suppose two-bit is all I can give you without your actual attention to sprituality rather than logic..lol.

Makkin, although I don't share it, I'm mindful of spirituality and respect it, when not encroaching on others' different views. Your reference to 'atheists and therapy' was simply a groundless oversimplification, IMO.

Please keep in mind that in the USA it is called "freedom of religion". Sadly I must inform the atheists that freedom of religion does not grant you...."Freedom from Religion".

We have it in our constitution, too, but I'd object to your interpretation: in my personal view, that'd also mean NO religion, unless you are of the opinion that in the USA one should have ANY religion regardless . Would all US agnostics/atheists converting to Islam make you happier ?

[Markus]

I really enjoy when a person is blunt and to the point in their opinion in a professional and respectable way. I admit that I try to be this way, but have missed the mark, as Kenc can verify. But, AnastassiaAsh's post is the most honest and best post I have ever seen. I have seen the responses. Maybe I should take Dan's advice and start a new thread but I'm going to continue. I have been offended with opinions before and it's at that point that I defended myself and my thoughts. The good thing about strong opinions is that it may make the person reading it think. That's the purpose. I have been educated by this board and changed my thoughts. I am addressing not anyone in particular, but the multiple posts I have read from the last to Anna's. My references are not me but HIM.

I see many references to morality in being a Christian. I think a lot of religions try to incorporate the same. But, to become a Christian a person cannot earn it through lifestyle.  Read Ephesians 2:8, 9. Christianity is a gift that comes through faith. Faith in what? Well, the answer has become politically correct in that it's God. The blunt answer is Jesus. Jesus is God. People are afraid of the name of Jesus. Jesus is God.  A person must know who God is before he/she can have faith in God. Living a good life does not make one a Christian.

Why all the hoopla over being a Christian? The answers are endless but the main answer is where one will spend eternity. Imagine when a person rejects Christianity and dies that way. There's no turning back. That person is in eternity separated from God. But, before that person exits into Eternity, after they exit this world, he/she will bow their knee to God. Every person must give an account of their life to God (Romans 11: 11/12). Every person falls short of the standard that God requires. That's why he became a man and shed his blood for the sins of every person. But, not all people will reach out and receive their free gift. Disbelief is in the way. Jesus said very few people will find the path to righteousness.  Imagine a free gift under a Christmas tree with your name on it. Each of us have that gift. But, some folks will not open that gift and receive the most important free gift of their life.
One of the points of AnastassiaAsh's post was having something that binds two people together. She used God but I promise she was referrring to Jesus.

I was blunt and in my thoughts about her post. She may not even agree with what I have said. But, I wanted to
elaborate more on God.

From my opinion, if an atheist exists, he/she wouldn't care. But, then, that might make that person an agnostic. An agnostic is someone too mentally lazy to research Jesus and find out who he really is. Jesus said those that seek me will find me. Ask Josh McDowell who wrote "Evidence that demands a verdict." He set out to prove that the Jesus stuff was wrong. His book is not for the weak. He did his research and was mentally honest with himself. Oh, he went from atheist to pastor.

An atheist who argues against Christianity isn't really an atheist. Atheists are not 100% sure of their position. That's why they argue.

Mark

P.S. I forgot to add that I believed all my life in Jesus but never became a Christian until January 4, on a Wednesday night, 1984, at 20:45. I know that exact minute that I was born from above.

[Jumper]

KenC -
yeah, i was just rambling something we all know well..
that generalities , are all we have in a forums format, and that they mean so very little in any specific individual couples case.

I guess my small my frustration was from seeing  38 pages of dissecting any individuals circumstance ,
in some attempt to make some generalities from it, (and those generalities are well known already)

it seemed somehow backwards,  and to have come  full circle to the point of being mute?
but that's not all that unusual 

I hope you are doing well!

Maxx- I am sorry to hear of the health issues  ;(
Keep on top of that with a good physicians care and advice!!!

[Makkin]

Sandro,

  In my opinion as always I'll keep in mind your opposition to it but will probably lose no sleep over anything.

  In regards to a question you made in reference to Muslims. Why did you ask me that?

[Ade]

I really enjoy when a person is blunt and to the point in their opinion in a professional and respectable way. I admit that I try to be this way, but have missed the mark, as Kenc can verify. But, AnastassiaAsh's post is the most honest and best post I have ever seen. I have seen the responses. Maybe I should take Dan's advice and start a new thread but I'm going to continue. I have been offended with opinions before and it's at that point that I defended myself and my thoughts. The good thing about strong opinions is that it may make the person reading it think. That's the purpose. I have been educated by this board and changed my thoughts. I am addressing not anyone in particular, but the multiple posts I have read from the last to Anna's. My references are not me but HIM.

I see many references to morality in being a Christian. I think a lot of religions try to incorporate the same. But, to become a Christian a person cannot earn it through lifestyle.  Read Ephesians 2:8, 9. Christianity is a gift that comes through faith. Faith in what? Well, the answer has become politically correct in that it's God. The blunt answer is Jesus. Jesus is God. People are afraid of the name of Jesus. Jesus is God.  A person must know who God is before he/she can have faith in God. Living a good life does not make one a Christian.

Why all the hoopla over being a Christian? The answers are endless but the main answer is where one will spend eternity. Imagine when a person rejects Christianity and dies that way. There's no turning back. That person is in eternity separated from God. But, before that person exits into Eternity, after they exit this world, he/she will bow their knee to God. Every person must give an account of their life to God (Romans 11: 11/12). Every person falls short of the standard that God requires. That's why he became a man and shed his blood for the sins of every person. But, not all people will reach out and receive their free gift. Disbelief is in the way. Jesus said very few people will find the path to righteousness.  Imagine a free gift under a Christmas tree with your name on it. Each of us have that gift. But, some folks will not open that gift and receive the most important free gift of their life.
One of the points of AnastassiaAsh's post was having something that binds two people together. She used God but I promise she was referrring to Jesus.

I was blunt and in my thoughts about her post. She may not even agree with what I have said. But, I wanted to
elaborate more on God.

From my opinion, if an atheist exists, he/she wouldn't care. But, then, that might make that person an agnostic. An agnostic is someone too mentally lazy to research Jesus and find out who he really is. Jesus said those that seek me will find me. Ask Josh McDowell who wrote "Evidence that demands a verdict." He set out to prove that the Jesus stuff was wrong. His book is not for the weak. He did his research and was mentally honest with himself. Oh, he went from atheist to pastor.

An atheist who argues against Christianity isn't really an atheist. Atheists are not 100% sure of their position. That's why they argue.

Mark

P.S. I forgot to add that I believed all my life in Jesus but never became a Christian until January 4, on a Wednesday night, 1984, at 20:45. I know that exact minute that I was born from above.

I could dissect your post and show you where you've blithely insulted every atheist and agnostic but to be honest, there is no point is there? It won't change your mind and those on the other side of the fence to you have already rolled their eyes and moved on. I guess that a lot of the faithful here don't even get why this post is so insulting? Oh well, time to roll my eyes and move on I suppose. 

[Maxx2]

Maxx,
A level of 200 isn't that bad.  My last 20 reads average 284 with 4 injections daily.  So it could be worse.

But use this as a wake up call.  Wake up to taking care of yourself.  Take care of yourself, physically, mentally and socially. Take steps to make your life better and happier.  I know you are basically a nice guy and get a sense of fulfillment in helping guys in trouble with divorcing RW, but at what cost to you?  From my perspective, you have allowed helping others to consume your life.  It is time to concentrate on Maxx.

Maybe you could put a standard package together of posts or links so that when someone contacts you for advice, you just send out the information for their reading.  You simply cannot let other peoples problems become your problems.  Get healthy and then focus on things that will make you truly happy.
KenC

Hello Ken, AJ, Dan, Gator, GOB, Makkin and others

So far I am only on the medication for it (diabetes). My numbers have improved but do not seem to be dropping much. I have usual a high in the 200's (a low of 217 once) after waking up. Then numbers in the 300's and up to 400+ during the day after eating. Normal for those that do not know is about 80 after an all night fast and less than 200 after eating a carbohydrate then going below 100 after an hour or so. Am I correct in this Ken? I figure insulin injections are in my future. The good news is I feel a lot better. I am actually getting things done. It must be due to how I am eating (low carb). I lost about 15 lbs these past 3 weeks. I look back now and see that my lethargy in regard to my business and anything regarding self improvement must have had physiological roots. I felt lousy all the time. I slept about 14 hours a day. Did the least work I could. Moved like a 90 year old man. I was upset with myself for not having the will power to make changes I knew I needed to make. I just had no energy other than to exist. That's all changed. I am working and sleeping normal length hours and thinking smart and clear. I see now I needed to take care of my health by a doctor's advice and medicine so I could take care of my health through exercise and diet. It all works together.

In regard to helping the guys and American women involved in this issue I have taken up. I have cut back on that quite a bit before I learned of the above. My bad mood helped there. I was getting irritated with most everyone. I do not feel that way anymore. BUT I have no desire to make this issue the bases of my life. I am concentrating as you said Ken on doing those things that make me personally happy. I have to keep the other secondary. If I am not happy what good am I?  

The "standard package" you mentioned I have this covered. I made a 24 minute documentary film called "Avi's story" that covers this problem. It was shown at the Heritage Foundation in DC on October 1st, 2008 at their VAWA reform conference. I mail this DVD out free to those that need it and anyone else interested in it. I lost faith in the written word to convey the message so I use film to tell the story told by a Ukrainian/American family and a few Russian women immigration attorneys. My story although useful is waaay past it's expiration date. Besides I am sick it.


Maxx

[SANDRO43]

In regards to a question you made in reference to Muslims. Why did you ask me that?

Makkin, a rhetorical question based on what I gathered from your argument, i.e. that ANY religion is better than NO religion at all - unless you meant any Christian religion, which I believe is NOT what you constitution says or even implies, IINM.

[Makkin]

Sandro,

  Thanks for the basic constitutional information as I'm aware of this..lol.


   The UN seems a bit upset with Italy at this time and maybe the Muslim thing has something to do with it? I see many ways in which you try to stem the flow of people to Italy and even have neighborhood watches. Has it come to this dear friend...already seems a bit unlike the USA doesn't it?


   European mentality never ceases to amaze me but what do I know?..lol. Seems as if the more educated you guys appear or want to be known as it still causes more problems than other parts of the world in specific areas of "quality of life". I'm wishing you the best but as far as I can see there is a land and population problem that will never be fixed no matter how much you study it.

Makkin