Getting started? Yeah, right!

[392ihc]

Greetings to all.  I appreciate the opportunity to be able to post my situation on here and read possible solutions to my dilemma.  I have been corresponding with a number of Ukrainian women over the last 3-4 months. Maybe less than half have responded to my contact. After several of them suggested I visit their country I agreed to do this. There were four different women who invited me to Ukraine. I bought airline tickets with this knowledge.  Now, one by one, they have either turned into scammers who do not exist, or will not return my emails to them!  I have one who has said she will meet me at the Borispol airport and help me rent an apartment in Kiev. Then the next day she informs me she will leave for Easter with her family and then to Russia on business.  Now, I am 59 yrs. old and have contacted over 100 women on different dating sites. I have never been out of US/Canada in my life. I am retired and I am not rich. I have some real estate holdings but you know what that is worth right now.
I am truly looking for a wife. I would not go there if I were only a sex tourist. Apparently these women do not believe me.  Now I have these tickets bought and it looks like I will be alone for 12 days in a totally strange city!  Somebody tell me what to do!  I will not go if it means finding my way around Kiev alone. I thank you in advance for your ideas.
Mike C  Riverton, Wyoming

[smilingjake]

Greetings  ---

When are you scheduled to leave for your trip to Kiev?  Perhaps you can salvage your trip by contacting one of the agencies in Kiev to assist you with accomodations and also the opportunity for dates with some of their agency gals.

In retrospect perhaps you should have spent more preparation for this trip. I, similar to you had also never been out of the USA prior to my trip to Dneptropevosk. It can seem overwhelming, but it can also be most rewarding and satisfying.

I was most fortunate in that I had an awesome woman waiting for me at the airport. Her biggest concern was my welfare, which made me feel very much at ease.  Best of luck --

Jake

[facetrock]

   I think you should get a refund on your tickets.  You have never traveled outside North America. Landing in Kiev is going to make you think you have arrived on another planet. My feeling is you need to do a little more research and give us some more information on what your plan is. But from what I know by your post here is my advice if you are still planning on going.

 Since you have zero experience traveling to the FSU(or any other country outside the USA or Canada) I would advise you to make sure someone you trust will meet you at the airport. The agency route might be a good idea for you. I think Kherson Girls has an office in Kiev, they are American owned and have a very good reputation. They could have someone meet you at the airport, have an apartment ready for you and you would be able to meet alot of women. For a newbie with little travel experience this is good way to get your feet wet.

All the women you were emailing have disapeared, that might be a blessing in disguise for you. You would be free, you wont be worried about trying to make a relationship  work with someone you have been emailing for months. You could just be yourself. Good luck

[SMS60]

Can I ask a small question?

Were all the women under 40? I mean under 35?

[Vaughn]

Apparently these women do not believe me.

No, Mike, they believed you. It was when they got news of your pending arrival that they all
scurried away. Those ladies make thier income through letter writing - and you were paying
to correspond with them, no?

facetrock is right, this is a blessing - that you found out now, and not while standing there
overseas waiting for contact that would never come. The questions above are fair ones -
how old were these ladies? And when do you plan to travel there? This is hardly a lost cause,
unless you were banking on a first visit engagement.

Another question - seriously - do you believe a Kyiv woman could find contentedness in Wyoming?

We're here to help, but also to bring up realities.

Vaughn

[SMS60]

Another question - seriously - do you believe a Kyiv woman could find contentedness in Wyoming?

Vaughn, I have to take issue with this. I dont want to derail the topic but I have been looking for an explanation of this way of thinking.

I started a thread "thoughts from the farside" about this very issue.

Some men are placing the women on a very high pedastal instead of an equal. This will freak healthy women out. The bad women will smell blood.

Yes, I do believe a women would be happy in Wyoming with the right man.

Carry on

[kievstar]

This does not mean any of these girls are bad.  You do not have a relationship before face to face contact.  The girl going away with her family and than work.  Your not her boyfriend.  Have you called any of these girls - if not, your writing letters with men and agency workers.

I will say you will struggle in Kiev based on what you said unless you target women over 40 years old.

On a positive note.  You have a ticket and 12 days.  Go to Kharkov.

[392ihc]

Thank you. I am grateful for the replies!  Let me try to answer a few questions brought up here.  First the ages:  I have written ladies from 27-48 yrs.  I have called several of them but their English is so poor I cannot understand them when they speak the "pidgen English".  Probably more my limitation than theirs. All seemed very sincere (of course).  One contacted me unsolicited from a local Kiev agency. I didn't think that much about it until the agency told me I would need to pay $200. sent only by Western Union to continue our correspondence!  I did not pay and I have not heard from her since.  And on and on the story goes....  Yes, I agree. I should have prepared better; but how does one prepare for a scammer?  You can't. All you can do is back away when it is discovered.  And, yes, better now than standing in Borispol.  Regarding living in Wyoming...funny here to me.  I have been very clear to all of the women I have written. I live in a town of 10,000 people in the shadow of the Wind River mountains. I make frequent trips to Denver and SLC for cultural events.  The women in Ukraine seemed to have easier time understanding this than my fellow Americans!  It really isn't the Great American Outback! But indeed it could be perceived as a problem.
I am serious thinking I should contact one of these agencies like the one mentioned above. I really do not normally go off half cocked on such deals. I really thought I had some things confirmed....  it is less a lack of planning on my part than my own naivete!  I was a sucker and I admit it.
Again, please tell me what you think.  Thank you.
Mike C.

[SANDRO43]

Yes, I agree. I should have prepared better; but how does one prepare for a scammer?

By first having a look at our Scam Card in the Scam Avoidance menu at left .

[bobb]

I see you registered about 3 weeks ago here.  I will assume you have spent some time reading many topics in different groups.

You say you are retired and not rich.  If I, and remember this is only my opinion for what I would do, was in this situation I would cancel the flight.  Most likely you have a non-refundable ticket.  Plan on using that airline company when you do go.

Explore the group discussion about different agencies and find a more reputable place to meet some 'real' women.  If finances are an issue look for women who indicate they are good or fluent in English.  Ask them for current photos.  Send them current photos, all kinds.  BTW, where did you meet these women?

I just feel having never traveled anywhere internationally it would be a mistake to just go right now.  But, if your financial condition is such you can spend $2500 - $4000 for a trip that has a high probability of becoming a disappointment, but a learning experience then go.   

[PeeWee]

If your posting is real...I would think that you would want to step back only to reaccess your plan of attack. I would not travel to anywhere until I had a specific reason to do so. There are many sincere women whom have posted their profiles with an agency. Just choose the right agency. 

Elena is good. She seems to screen the non serious ones out. I may just be lucky but I have met less than 5 scammers in my 6 or so years of semi serious searching. In the meantime I have met some very nice and honest Russian ladies as a result of my travels, which is averaging about one per year.

My recommendation is that you establish communication with only those who speak English. After several months of email and phone exchanges make a date to travel to her city. I don't think any scammer is going to invest anymore than a few emails in someone but the one who will invest hours upon hours emailing and conversing by phone will most likely be who she claims to be.

To date I have not been scammed while in the meantime I have spent hundreds of hours either in the company of very decent and honest Russian gals or at the least many hours on the telephone getting to know them better.

I have been all over this world, many times, for many years and nothing that I have seen of done had prepared me for my first day in Moskva. I have to admit that place knock me over. To begin with the guy at the airport wanted $200.00 to take me to the city. I told the guy to take a hike. I did get him down to $60.00. Thinking that was ok I only later found out from my friend Irina, who flew in from Vlad-k to meet me, that she and I could take the same cab back to the airport from the city for $20.00 for the both of us! And she had the guy waiting for us at 7am at our hotel from an arrangement she had made the night before. I suppose my point is that if you are going to place your soul in the midst of a place you do not know you should have a guide of some kind to keep you out of harms way.

Peewee

[Daveman]

Well, first off, I'll tell you the simple truth.. most WMVO, or WOVO trips don't work out long term, and most WMVM trips don't work out long term.  :-)  You would be extremely lucky if you met "The One" on your first trip anyway. SO, I say... GO GO GO GO GO!! You've got the ticket, I'd suggest Kharkov too which is an overnight train ride, or a quick jump by plane.  If you want to stay in Kiev, the heck, there are a billion (give or take) ladies in Kiev on Elenas, so you could get someone to assist with acquiring a place to stay (not one of the ladies), and you could fill your days with meetings face to face.

If a sincere lady knows you have dates for travel, definitely coming, she'll meet you.

When you contact other women, don't speak about the first women. Don't mention "Scammer", don't mention "disappeared".. just say you are coming and would like to meet her. 

If you have enough time before you are scheduled, then don't be worried.  You won't die, and if you are not Quasimodo, then you'll probably have a pretty good time getting your feet wet.  Check out some of the recommended agencies, accommodations, etc., and set up your trip.  We all made our first trip at some point with exactly as much experience as you have.

If you stick to those women around 40, you'll be fine. If you go much younger, you'll blow a bunch of money and most likely have your ass handed to you.  There are a T O N of very nice looking 40 something ladies in Kiev begging for attention.  Kharkov too.  You probably should not stray too far off the popular path on your first trip, though even if you do you shouldn't have too much trouble (as long as you behave sensibly).

So my suggestion is that if you are serious about finding a UW, then read a lot here, get your plan together, and absolutely get on the plane and go.  GO GO GO GO GO GO GO!!!  You can't really do anything much from here except write letters and make phone/skype calls... and those letters/calls will mean a hell of a lot more if she knows you are definitely coming. Big time.

[GoodOlBoy]

SO, I say... GO GO GO GO GO!! You've got the ticket, I'd suggest Kharkov too which is an overnight train ride, or a quick jump by plane. 

Listen to Daveman....GO!

You won't be sorry.

Just be realistic in your expectations!


GOB

[392ihc]

Yes, PeeWee, this posting is real...do I stand out that badly?  Who else would write that they are from Wyoming looking for a UW for a wife?  Probably makes me one in a million!  And, no, I am not quasimodo!  I am not overweight or bald!  I exercise frequently. Seriously, I do appreciate the advise here.  You guys are very kind and encouraging.  Good thing I found this site. I guess I will still try to go...jury is still out.
I hear you say Elenas agency is a good place to try....I have been on Loveme.com, RussianBrides, JDating, and Lava.  I have communicated with various women from each site. Hope I am not breaking ettiquette here by naming them...someone asked.  What other agency would you recommend?  If I had some dates lined up in advance I would surely go...maybe even hit it off with one of them to spend more time with.
I do realize this UW dating for marriage is not a one-trip deal.  But one thing the ladies on these sites have already taught me is that few women take you seriously until you talk of actually buying airline tickets!
Mike in Wyoming!

[Ade]

Yes, PeeWee, this posting is real...do I stand out that badly?  Who else would write that they are from Wyoming looking for a UW for a wife?  Probably makes me one in a million!  And, no, I am not quasimodo!  I am not overweight or bald!  I exercise frequently. Seriously, I do appreciate the advise here.  You guys are very kind and encouraging.  Good thing I found this site. I guess I will still try to go...jury is still out.
I hear you say Elenas agency is a good place to try....I have been on Loveme.com, RussianBrides, JDating, and Lava.  I have communicated with various women from each site. Hope I am not breaking ettiquette here by naming them...someone asked.  What other agency would you recommend?  If I had some dates lined up in advance I would surely go...maybe even hit it off with one of them to spend more time with.
I do realize this UW dating for marriage is not a one-trip deal.  But one thing the ladies on these sites have already taught me is that few women take you seriously until you talk of actually buying airline tickets!
Mike in Wyoming!

Hey there Mike in Wyoming.

There's no cookie cutter answer to your questions unfortunately and as you can see from the replies already, there are differing views on the best course of action in situations such as yours.

A few things you should be aware of if you aren't already; do not underestimate the long term cost in time and money of international dating. It's a bundle. Even the one week wonders have the relocation expenses of their women not to mention having a dependant for some time after her arrival.

Also, do not underestimate how lost you may feel in a country where you don't understand the language but much worse, do not know the alphabet, even reading a map becomes a task and a half; I know I felt that way and I've travelled and lived in various foriegn language countries.

Having said that, if you are the adventurous type, even a little, you will find a trip there an eye opening and, hopefully, an enjoyable experience.

Assuming you have enough time to prepare, I would contact one of the recommended agencies in Kiev (or Kharkov as others have suggested) and get them to set up an apartment and also get them to arrange for someone to meet you at the airport; those two things will at least remove the burden of first contact. Of course, it will cost.

As for women, well, yes, date by all means but I think you will find it easier to go with a holiday attitude this first time, to survey the lay of the land so to speak. Remove from your mind the pressure of finding a partner for life; seriously, it is extremely unlikely to happen the first trip anyway.

Good luck.

[Mir]

I may have missed something but it looks as you have just bought the plane ticket and have not made any other arrangements.
So first of all I would advice you to book and apartment for your stay and get the agency where you book apartment to have a driver at Borispol to pick you up.
Next thing is to buy a nice tourist guide for Kiev if that is the city you want to stay in. Some want you to go to Kharkov but I am not sure if that is a good idea unless there is a lady ready to meet you in Kharkov.
Travel to Kharkov will involve extra hassle specially for someone who has never been to Ukraine.
There certainly is a lot more to do and see in Kiev.
As regards finding women, you can try an local agency. Try icq etc.
There certainly is no guarantee you will meet anyone but you will still get an idea of what you are getting into if you make this trip.
Good luck

[kievstar]

What days will you be in Ukraine? 

Also, being from Wyoming will not be a problem for you.  I have met many guys from remote areas of the USA wild west in Ukraine who look for women.   A man with true intentions and realistic expectations can easily get married in Ukraine. 

Many girls in Kiev (the good looking ones) tend to get a lot of attention from men.  Reason is their are many expat (foreign workers in Kiev) that can date these girls on a normal daily basis. Also, many good local men as well.  I know as I used to live in Kiev.  Kiev dating agency is like match.com for the expats except the quality of women is a higher %.  But if you like a lot of competition from men than Kiev is a great place.   Kiev Connections is a good agency, MissUA or UAMiss (near Miami Blue restaurant) is good.  Stay away from interdating / delphania.  They have changed to focus on sex tourists.  Also, be careful of Elena's model in Kiev.  The better looking ones are looking to get married but also are hookers on the side (not all girls but many).  If your OK with a girl with a little experience than Elena's models in Kiev will work than.  Sex toursits love Elena's models in Kiev.  I have met many sex tourists in Kiev.  Never met one in Kharkov. 

Best advise is date a girl who has had children and over 40 unless you want children.  Since your retired why not go to Ukraine for 8 months.  Go to a smaller city.  Study Russian and date women one at a time until you meet the right one.  You could do this on $2,000 usd a month easily and save the cost of flying back many times (this is rarely a fly once and get married process).  You can get a nice apartment for monthly rent of $375 usd.  I know this price as I just rented one for my wife. 

But please go to Ukraine.  Many people on this board will help you.  Please post your dates and maybe we can meet up.  I go to Ukraine every month to see my wife.

[steve057]

Hi Mike,
 While I have never been to the Ukraine I have been to Russia twice. I also had never traveled outside the US until last summer when I went to Russia. I did as much reading as I could on this site and any books I could get ahold of before I went. They really did help as the attitude of people in FSU countries is much different than our own here in the states. All I can say is go and stay in Kiev for a week and have some fun, be patient and open minded. Look at it as an adventure, there is always someone that will speak English. See if you can hook up with an agency before you go and have them help you find an apartment and pick you up at the airport. Just don't go and look at it as a wife hunt,(trust me on this one!!)just try to find a friend and maybe more in time!:)
 Also be ready for a shock when you step off that plane and everything is written in Russian! I mean surprise, we all knew it was going to be that way but until you see it for yourself it is hard to imagine. So, go and have a good time you won't regret it!  Steve

[Mir]

Kievstar

Can I ask why your wife is going to live in Ukraine rather then live with you wherever you live?

Also how come a man of your financial success has rented an apartment costing just $375 per month for a stunning ex-supermodel wife?

[Gator]

Mike,

Cowboys from Wyoming are not afraid of an adventure!

I say GO but not for a couple of months, if you can get your air tix changed.

Do not stop in Kiev.  This is a big city and sopisticated Kiev women would probably have a problem with moving to upper Bumfluck.   But no problem in dining with you at an expensive Kiev restaurant.

You need some selective screening via correspondence.  Thus, contact some reliable agencies in Kharkov (Jerry the aviator is writing a trip report about  Kharkiv and has researched the agencies.)  A 3-hour traain ride from Kharkiv is Dnepropetrovsk where you can find Cindy's Agency.  Contact them too.  Tell them of where you live and explain that you seek the "cozy home" model of UW (who also likes cold weather).

If you can not change your air tix, go to Kharkiv and Dnepro.  Call the agencies and they will meet you at the airport (or train station or bus station) and reserve an apartment.  They will arrange meetings with UW for about $25-50 excluding terps.

[kievstar]

i.

[PeeWee]

Something else that you might consider. The women in large cities, such as; Moscow, St. Pete, Kiev, etc are of a different temperment and life style than the women in villages or smaller cites. Try Vladivostok, Perm, Astrakahan, and so forth in Russia. Maybe less likely to find a scammer in Vlad-k than in Moscow? Think about meeting her somewhere such as Jamaica, Egypt, Thailand. Many will say that you need to meet her in own environment. That too but I have always had good luck getting them to meet me somewhere. If you buy a non refundable ticket good only for the destination you both have planned you won't lose your money.

Not a bad idea to have a first meeting on neutral ground and get a good vacation all at the same time. I have had 100% show up for my on neutral ground meet and greets. What I like about this tactic is that when you meet her in a location other than her home you have no distractions at all which allows  you to both focus for 24/7 on each other. And you get to visit somewhere that you may have wanted to visit anyway. Maybe second trip you meet her in her city if the first meeting held promise.

What if she does not show up? You still win. You have not lost your money, you are still where you want to be, and you can spend your time meeting the local single women who live in that country. Just an another point of view.

Peewee

[kryten41]

You didn't say how long until your trip.  Regardless, you should learn some Russian.  There are some links in recent threads to sites that can give you a start on reading. I suggest you at least get a phrase book (Lonely Planet makes a popular one).  The Pimsleur language CDs are also good, and after only one or two lessons you will be able to say in Russian the most important phrase: "Excuse me, do you speak English?"

Another agency you might condider, especially if you are going to be near Crimea, is www.chance.crimea.ua

Best of luck!

[Ade]

The Pimsleur language CDs are also good, and after only one or two lessons you will be able to say in Russian the most important phrase: "Excuse me, do you speak English?"

Most important? Probably the most redundant one.

[Gator]

Most important? Probably the most redundant one.

Or get Rosetta DVDs and learn how to say, "The boy sits on a ball."

I would suggest learning the Cyrillic alphabet. 

Even with that knowledge I had trouble reading the railroad time schedules.  So I asked a stranger who found someone to help me, who also pointed to a window in the Kharkiv station where the teller spoke English.  An agency, for a fee, will drop you off at the train station and make sure you get on the correct train.

People are very helpful if you are polite.  Never ask a policeman for help:  first, he does not care and second, he is rude.  Perhaps because you have distracted him from his business of collecting bribes.