Realities of FSUW

[brucen36]

This is usually what men who have spent little time with Russian or in the FSU say  I did not use statistics, but I was right 

Sure based on your subjective experience.  Anecdotal evidence.

[Misha]

Sure based on your subjective experience.  Anecdotal evidence.

Yes, and in this case "subjective" experience produced a correct prediction :evil:

[brucen36]

Yes, and in this case "subjective" experience produced a correct prediction :evil:

You should have also put quotes around "correct", as it only exists in your mind.

[Sculpto]

I would hardly call this a danger.  First of all, remove "belief" from the equation.  Simply look at the statistics.  If the statistics say that 90% of the women put high monetary success as first on their list, then case 'x' has a high probability of falling within this majority.  It's not an absolute truth, but a liklihood.  And then it is fair to say that in all liklihood, such a woman who says it was not important is in fact deluding herself - I emphasize liklihood.  10% chance she is not.

[goforit]

Fine, if you don't agree with my interpretation, that is okay with me. However, IMHO, the reason why there are so many trainwrecks is that men overlook the obvious. Read ScottinCrimea's thread as an example.

Yes many men do overlook the obvious, and that is true whether they are dating and marrying RW or AW, which is why this road is not for everyone. But the woman in Scott's thread (his wife) is nothing like the women in this thread, based on her actions and what these women are actually saying, not what we imagine them to be saying. That should be very obvious.

[brucen36]

Ummm perhaps you should read it again.  There is no statistic quoted there.  You do see the word "If' right?

[Zhena]

Sculpto,such people hve a right to exist and be happy,nobody argues about that. There are the hippies who live exactly that way and have same phylosophy. As soon as they happy-I am happy for them :)They are the children of the flowers. Personally me didnt get so far yet to enjoy that lifestyle.
Just make sure that the lady you will like,shares your points of view. There are not so many of those ladies,you have to look really hard.

[Misha]

Yes many men do overlook the obvious, and that is true whether they are dating and marrying RW or AW, which is why this road is not for everyone. But the woman in Scott's thread (his wife) is nothing like the women in this thread, based on her actions and what these women are actually saying, not what we imagine them to be saying. That should be very obvious.

Let's see, Scott does state that his wife was satisfied in Ukraine because she saw herself as being equal or higher in status monetarily than her friends, acquaintances, but becomes very dissatisfied in the United States when all of a sudden she sees people that are living a much richer life than her (sorry Scott if I badly paraphrased your words). Interpret it how you will, but I see it as an example of a woman who used material status to define her happiness. I may be wrong (this is a forum after all where you get second-hand information at best), but Scott seems to be indicating that he overlooked the indicators that were there (the jam story as a case in point).

[Wienerin]

I knew it. What I was implying was  - it is very much different from lets say me with a 8 y.o. kid and all this GC stuff

I do, I do understand - he brought you here with your 8 y.o., tearing you away from your country, home city, family and friends, job, whatever- and subjected you to all the rigors of this "GC stuff". So how much should this be - for all the pain and suffering? How did you make sure of getting the just price?

Do you not understand that you are writing exactly what you indignantly denied - that RW have a price list for coming to their chosen husband? Of course, more money is better than less, but should it really be a determining factor in a marriage? And should anyone try to smear ALL RW with this tar brush? 

[goforit]

Yes, you're right, no one has said that it's only about money but in some women's posts here there's certainly enough to indicate that a significant part of their decision making process involves material aspects of a relationship.

Take a look at this quote;
As far as I can tell by this her husband better watch out if he becomes unemployed as she may up and leave him for someone with more money. I have great faith that the woman I'm about to marry would heap scorn on anyone with such ideas as Zhena's. BF said it far more eloquently than I ever could.

But FWIW, I can see that a woman would not go out of their way initially to search for a man that is obviously destitute. I think that goes without saying. Of course, it's been known that a woman will bump into a man like this and fall in love regardless. Other than that, if a couple truly loves each other, money and "things" are meaningless additions and should not add to the love they share.

Ah, so you didn't see it either. I think for most women, especially if they are older and/or have children (or want them and have thought it out properly) a significant part of the decision making process involves the ability to be supported in a way that they think is fit. You say as much above by noting that no women is searching for a man who is obviously destitute.

I remember once liking and attempting to date this older woman when I lived in California. She had been married and divorced and had children as well. The romance was fun but she was very clear that romance alone wasn't going to win the day for her. She had already walked that path and it all got her was a divorce and two kids she was supporting on her own. I had to laugh cuz I knew she was telling the truth, and at the time I was in no position to feed and support three other people besides myself. So she wasn't having any of it, and was unwilling to put herself in a position to have her judgment clouded by "love." Good for her.

I will go even further and say that no woman is searching for a man who is even close to being destitute. Doesn't mean she might not meet and fall in love with such a man, but she certainly is not actively seeking him out. I don't think there is anything improper or wrong about that.

How much is enough will vary from person to person. Money only becomes "meaningless" when you have enough to provide, and the definition of that will vary from person to person. If you don't have enough to provide for you and your family, you will soon discover how "meaningful" money is, and it will have nothing to do with whether she loves you or not. And it doesn't much matter whether you think you have enough, what matters is that she thinks you have enough, which is why we all must be careful to find a proper match, regardless of what country she or he is from.

Finally I don't think that is Zhena's idea, I think she is warning about a certain kind of woman, and warning that people be careful with whom they match up (which should be obvious since she suggests marrying an older woman or someone at least their own age), and that goes both ways, for the woman and the man. Thus far, I think Vaughn and Gator, outside of Zhena herself, have given the best interpretation of Zhena's post(s). Zhena keeps clarifying but some seem to keep wanting to fall back to the early things as if that post existed in a vacuum.

[Zhena]

Wienerin,may I ask you politely,how did you get in usa(ure here,as I see from your profile),do you have a good job,do you have the kids? Have you been married?
And would you deal with the man who will tell you that all he needs is the obsereve the sunrise and enjoy the birds songs? And he invites you to share this life with him? You feel a chemistry for him-but will you risk to marry him?

[goforit]

well you should have said that in the beginning, then this topic would be twice shorter

I doubt it.

[Ade]

Ah, so you didn't see it either.

Yes, maybe I've misunderstood, but if I have then so have several RW here, and I'm in good company.

Here's a summary of my understanding what Zhena has said or inferred in this thread; money for most maybe all RW is important when choosing a partner and if they deny this they are delusional or lying. All else being equal between two suitors (not really a possibility of course) the most wealthy will be the obvious choice. If the guy is unable to provide after the fact he's a loser and she would leave him. There's more of course but let's leave it at that for now.

[goforit]

Come on, you knew that.We can forgive the AM who take the words literary but you did know that.

Not all AM took that literally. It seemed obvious to me from the beginning what she was trying to say.

[Wienerin]

I reflect back on that experience 7 years ago and compare it with my own real experiences.  After all, this thread is entitled "realities of FSUW."  The lady was definitely wrong, as anyone can see who follows this forum.  Blues Fairy and a very few others here prove there are exceptions, just as I thought there were.  In those two years I met and dated just over forty FSUW.  I must tell you in all honesty, and I wish I could say otherwise, but I found only 3 or 4, less than 10% who were exceptions to the assertion made by the RW in the store.

Did you try to apply a correction - among women, who post on foreign dating sites. And you were also spectacularly unlucky for some reason (I'm not going to wonder why - I don't know you, how you present yourself, how you were choosing your mate, etc., etc...)

Yes, there are the sex tourists..maybe about 10%, Yes there are the social misfits, maybe another 10%, but the vast majority are pretty darned average, just looking for a good woman of character who is looking for a good man of character.

Again, the "vast majority" do not seek a wife in an unknown exotic country and do not do it on Russian Brides or whatever sites. And no< such men couldn't be described as pretty darn average

[Misha]

Here's a summary of my understanding what Zhena has said or inferred in this thread

Matches my understanding as well. Nice summary.

[goforit]

By this I only mean material things. Not all the women look for a higher level of life- they have it in Russia (Ukraine, etc.) but those are definitely not seeking for the worse life style.
Overall- yes, love IS important but there IS no love at the point a woman is creating her profile online. She is starting looking for a successfulman.
A successful man is his career, not so? If he is in his 30s, 40's and 50's and is not successful financially then we need to think twice.

You need to think many many times, not just twice. The American landscape is littered with women who were damaged by men who couldn't cut the mustard and expected them to hang around while he could barely put food on the table well into his mid-life. Not I'm not just blaming the men for that. Many of them were "bad boys" and the signs were patently obvious that this is where the relationship was going, but you know many AW overlooked that for "love" and then later looked to the good guys who were a little more prudent with their lives - but that is another topic for another thread.

Success is not only defined by finances, and it doesn't mean being wealthy, but if I was a woman in another country looking for a WM I would look to external tokens like financial stability because in the early stages you have nothing else to go on. A man who wants to avoid that should probably pick up and just go live in the FSU for awhile and meet someone initially up close and personal.

[Doll]

Yes dear?  did I hear a giggle? or maybe it wasnt as funny to you as it was to me at the time. I like to joke a little and lighten things up.
 :hairraising: :hairraising:
 

Not really, sweetie, as there is no age on my profile, also I've never hidden it, also I am not uglyyyyyyyyyyy So my boys ( as I posed long ago) are 29(married) and 15 (with me here). Nothing funny. The funny thing is that Misha made a double mistake- we were talking of men's age (in terms of AM's career) and yes, he asked a woman about her age.

[Misha]

Misha made a double mistake- we were talking of men's age (in terms of AM's career) and yes, he asked a woman about her age.

Well, I was being kind. I could have said something less kind such as: "You must be in your fifties by now"  Sorry, could not resist the jab  :evil:

[ScottinCrimea]

Scot,I want to answer your question about what for your wife married you.
I think,the love was there. But unfortunately your and her ambitions is quite different,she wanted to work more together on making yur life better. You didnt want,you were satisfied with what you have had. It made her very offended. She was not smart about the way to get her goals,she thought it will stimulate you that she works so much. It didnt work though. She had to be wiser and go another way.

You have it quite backwards.  After a short time she stopped contributing anything toward our future and became resentful that she was working and seeing no immediate gain.  When I continued to focus on the future rather than spending money on a more lavish current lifestyle, she saw me as being inadequate because I wasn't giving her what she wanted now.  The ironic part is that, by leaving me, her current lifestyle will be less, she is now forced to work to support herself, and she has no way to build a future.

[Zhena]

I will tell you honestly,I think your wife was not smart,Scott. She didnt see the future,she wanted all today and immediately. Only cats are getting born fast. If she would make a plane for you both and would follow it,and would supprt you on the way-all could be much better. But what to do,we now have what we have...

[Zhena]

Yes, maybe I've misunderstood, but if I have then so have several RW here, and I'm in good company.

Here's a summary of my understanding what Zhena has said or inferred in this thread; money for most maybe all RW is important when choosing a partner and if they deny this they are delusional or lying. All else being equal between two suitors (not really a possibility of course) the most wealthy will be the obvious choice. If the guy is unable to provide after the fact he's a loser and she would leave him. There's more of course but let's leave it at that for now.

Yes,Jaded,you got me right. Money IS important. The one who doesnt earn enough yet has a chance if he shows that he is ready to work on that. All is in our own hands,we build our own life.

[Doll]

I do, I do understand - he brought you here with your 8 y.o., tearing you away from your country, home city, family and friends, job, whatever- and subjected you to all the rigors of this "GC stuff". So how much should this be - for all the pain and suffering? How did you make sure of getting the just price?

Do you not understand that you are writing exactly what you indignantly denied - that RW have a price list for coming to their chosen husband? Of course, more money is better than less, but should it really be a determining factor in a marriage? And should anyone try to smear ALL RW with this tar brush?

You're trying too hard, dear. We were talking of the criteria RW have to use just because the marriage is international. Nothing about tag with prices but the level of her security is different from that of AW. Not so?
Next, I didn't say money was the main thing- it is different considering her 2-3 years of getting adjusted. So why are you using this "tearing away?" We have to come here with our eyes open.
No, I am NOT writing what I denied- we need to consider every thing, finances being the part of the whole thing.
Now and then but very often the girls on the RW forum ask about how much is enough. A year ago there was a girl with same question, then she moved next to me county. So we talk time to time. " You were so right when you warned me!"
And this is a young girl with no kids.

[Doll]

Misha, didn't you tell me you would be at work at it was 9 a.m.?
You've been posting for all day long - non stop 

[goforit]

It's a material world yes, but maybe, just maybe, you don't realize how much of that actually needs to impact on a relationship. It may sound overly romantic in this cynical world but really, if you meet the right person, money matters not one whit; I know it, I've seen it and I've experienced it. I can only think that you haven't yet and I pity you that wake up call.

I don't think you are being overly romantic, I just think you are saying two different things. If money matters not one whit, then why wouldn't most woman want to marry a man who is destitute?

It seems to me you are applying your idea of how much is enough to everyone else, and if they don't agree with it then they are attaching too much meaning to money.