Realities of FSUW

[Mir]

I realize this seems like bragging but I'm speaking as honestly as I can.  I do really get a kick out or doing good for someone without expecting anything in return.  Selfishly speaking, that is what gives me my happiness.

So what you are saying is that you married an FSU woman just to give the poor girl a new start, perhaps because you felt sorry for her (or for the FSU women as a whole)? You got nothing in return for this great Nobel act, right?
It certainly is hard to comprehend why people spend time in the wilderness of Africa or Afghanistan looking after poor and sick people, they should go to FSU and find a woman as old as their daughter and rescue her.

[Sculpto]

Well to one extent the law defines what is appropriate.  Would you condone a relationship between a 50 year old and 17 year old even if both proclaimed their undying love?  After the law it's common sense and statistical patterns of divorce rates for large age gap marriages.

The law varies from state to state and country to country.  Austria which most people would consider to be a very modern civilized country I believe has the age of consent at 14 years.

BTW.. check a few pages back in this thread for the link I posted to the dating site in Tomsk and the forum on that site..

[brucen36]

The law varies from state to state and country to country.  Austria which most people would consider to be a very modern civilized country I believe has the age of consent at 14 years.

BTW.. check a few pages back in this thread for the link I posted to the dating site in Tomsk and the forum on that site..

Fine but what do you think is appropriate?  Would you be ok with a 50 year old guy dating your 16 year old daughter?  Be honest now, don't try to just say what you think will win the argument.

[Ronnie]

Do you realise that what you said here may sound like a knight-in-the-shining-armour syndrom?

Yep.  That's why I think we don't like to talk about it.  That, and the obvious opening oneself up to accusations of self-righteousness,  "holier than thou," etc, etc. 

We were once a Christian nation here in the United States. Now, when people put into practice (be it by faith or natural inclination) those things associated with Christianity,  there is no end to the abusive howling and scorn by the secularistic (it's all about me) crowd.

[Sculpto]

Fine but what do you think is appropriate?  Would you be ok with a 50 year old guy dating your 16 year old daughter?  Be honest now, don't try to just say what you think will win the argument.

I can not answer that question in an honest way because I do not have a 16 year old daughter so any opinion I might have would be from an uninformed perspective.

[Sculpto]

We were once a Christian nation here in the United States. Now, when people put into practice (be it by faith or natural inclination) those things associated with Christianity,  there is no end to the abusive howling and scorn by the secularistic (it's all about me) crowd.

Ronnie.. to avoid sending this thread and probably the entire forum into chaos I am not going to say what I really want to about your above comment.  You just told us you went to the FSU without rose colored glasses yet your comment indicates an incredibly deep ignorance about the reality of the history of that which you hold so dear. 

I suggest you take a look at the history of Mexico as the best example of Christian benevolence.   

[brucen36]

I can not answer that question in an honest way because I do not have a 16 year old daughter so any opinion I might have would be from an uninformed perspective.

C'mon.  You're not totally unreasonable.  What do you think most fathers would feel?  You can't be completely clueless.  Such a man has problems if he is chasing children.  Logic should intervene and override his "love", otherwise the law - in most places - will get him.

[Doll]

My guess is that subconsciencioulsy I wanted to be part of giving someone a new start in life.  I'm not motivated much by what I can get out of it, I've been that way since my early childhood - rather more focused on helping others.  I realize this seems like bragging but I'm speaking as honestly as I can.  I do really get a kick out or doing good for someone without expecting anything in return.  Selfishly speaking, that is what gives me my happiness.

I dont' think I am alone in this.

No. you are not alone in this- most of Am who did or will marry FSUW think so. Sick of it.

[Sculpto]

Materialism as a way of life in my mind would be defined as a lack of appreciation for spiritual, natural, familial values in favor of an appreciation for the aqquisition of money and objects.

In its extreme it is exemplified by scammers, hustlers and grifters who use deception for material gain.  

In the lives of average people it could be described for example as the kinds of peole who are not satisfied in life unless they are surrounded by luxuries, especially if such luxuries are actually beyond their means.  Or, by those who define their self worth by what they have.

[Ranetka]

Yep.  That's why I think we don't like to talk about it.  That, and the obvious opening oneself up to accusations of self-tighteousness,  "holier than thou," etc, etc. 

Do you realise that in order to continue feeling like a knight one HAS to think FSU and it's people has more bad than good?

I normally hate it when people do home-made pscycoanalysis on forums but could it be that your need to be "the knight" is responsible for your negative atittudes towards FSU?

[Sculpto]

C'mon.  You're not totally unreasonable.  What do you think most fathers would feel?  You can't be completely clueless.  Such a man has problems if he is chasing children.  Logic should intervene and override his "love", otherwise the law - in most places - will get him.

[ECOCKS]

Skipping over the legal situation and foregoing the immediate police call, IF my 16 year old daughter came home with a 50 year old boyfriend, I would like to think I would recover, be initially polite with him, have a conference with my wife and then a looooong conversation with my daughter to determine if she had lost her mind.

I cannot imagine that she could convince me that things were "normal" though.

Then again, the two losers the oldest ones hooked up with the first time out of the starting gate could not have been any worse for them. Felony convictions, police calls, drugs, school expulsions, etc.

FSUW daughters have no monopoly on meaness, rebellion, manipulation or cunning. 

[Ronnie]

Ronnie.. to avoid sending this thread and probably the entire forum into chaos I am not going to say what I really want to about your above comment.  You just told us you went to the FSU without rose colored glasses yet your comment indicates an incredibly deep ignorance about the reality of the history of that which you hold so dear. 

I suggest you take a look at the history of Mexico as the best example of Christian benevolence.   

You make the mistake (perhaps intentionally so) of equating Christ's example to those man-made organizations that operate without his approval yet use his name.  Religion is not Christianity.  In fact it appears to me to be the antithesis of it.  Maybe we have found common agreement?

[Sculpto]

whoops.. hit send before I typed anything..

look there ae places in the world where fathers sell their 9 year old daughters into marriage.  Western cultural norms do not approve, but, whoa re we to impose our will?

[Wienerin]

As a matter of fact it can.  Just compare the rate of survival of newborns in rich countries versus that of third world (i.e. poor) countries.  People seem to take some things very much for granted after being brought up in well to do countries.

Why go that far? There's a much lesser chance to see your child's happy face when you cannot feed your family (starving or even habitually malnourished children rarely smile, - they are listless, with sad pinched faces, and do not have energy to play and be happy as a child should), or when other children have toys, shoes, pretty clothes, go to school, go on vacations to nice places, - and your child cannot.

Because the parent likes to lead relaxed life, not to work too much, lest he, G-d forbid, does not have enough time to lay under a tree and contemplate the Universe  

Sculpto likes to write about unique people like these itinerant artisans, who drag their children all over the place to buy gold and stones "at the mine" (which is illegal, BTW, and can get both seller and buyer in dire trouble if not shot outright), make baubles on the go, and sell those - supposedly to the despised people who earn money in despised fashion and spend in in despised ways - on "material things"... Of course, one can live like this - dangerously, stressfully, with no home, always on the road, depending on a good number of affluent people and on fashion. Not paying taxes, too, and not providing for one's old age, illness, etc.

I would think, though, that if one likes to live like this, - it would be nice not to have any children. And to have a thought on what will one do when the stresses of this gypsy life become too much, and one doesn't have the health and strength any more to wander the roads... I suppose that then again the despised drones are to provide for these lofty spirits... oh, well... We are used to it

Somebody was talking about hippies... Well, I was a hippy at one time, my sons were and remain hippies - but they work as I worked, because even jeans and beads to make bracelets, etc. do not come free, nor does food, roof over one's head (even if it's a trailer or van), books, music records, guitars, amplifiers, etc., etc. - let alone children, which could be quite an expensive proposition.

Of course those who can (not everyone has talents enough ) earn in an "artistic" way - making tie-died c.othes, weaving, making music, jewelry, pictures, etc. My younger one breeds chinchillas on the side and the baby already helps (mostly preventing the cat from eating the newborn chinchillas )... And of course there are quite a lot, who are "artistic", "hippies", "free spirits" or whatever - without achieving anything for years and years. Then they are either drones - and being artistic only in their spare time (which is OK with me, as long as they honestly work - I hate people, who despise their work, coworkers, bosses, clients, etc.), or depend on the earnings (i.e. being a drone) of somebody else, which for some reason is not OK with me. Though what do I know?

Sorry, I digressed again

[Sculpto]

No. you are not alone in this- most of Am who did or will marry FSUW think so. Sick of it.

You have hit on a truth Doll.  The problem is that most of these women do not need to be saved.  Life isn't that bad over there, especially in the major cities.

What you are leaving out is the inherent race issues.  If those same men really wanted to be the savior they would go someplace a lot worse off than the FSU to find their little princess that needs saving.

[brucen36]

whoops.. hit send before I typed anything..

look there ae places in the world where fathers sell their 9 year old daughters into marriage.  Western cultural norms do not approve, but, whoa re we to impose our will?

Because at some point common sense has to intervene along with the preservation of the species instinct.

[Ronnie]

Do you realise that in order to continue feeling like a knight one HAS to think FSU and it's people has more bad than good?

I normally hate it when people do home-made pscycoanalysis on forums but could it be that your need to be "the knight" is responsible for your negative atittudes towards FSU?

There is a sexual connotation in the use of "Knight".  It doesn't apply when I try to help people of either gender does it?  Are workers in Charitable organizations all Knights?  I don't think so.  I also fail to see how the reality of the FSU where the corruption and low quality of life which are well-documented by international metrics are the product of my psyche.  Nice try though 

[Sculpto]

You make the mistake (perhaps intentionally so) of equating Christ's example to those man-made organizations that operate without his approval yet use his name.  Religion is not Christianity.  In fact it appears to me to be the antithesis of it.  Maybe we have found common agreement?

excuses.  EXCUSES!  BTW Ronnie.. I heard all Muslims are terrorists and that Islam is predisposed to violence.   :evil:

[Doll]

You have hit on a truth Doll.  The problem is that most of these women do not need to be saved.  Life isn't that bad over there, especially in the major cities.

What you are leaving out is the inherent race issues.  If those same men really wanted to be the savior they would go someplace a lot worse off than the FSU to find their little princess that needs saving.

Well, they can also go to animal shelters or what come to marriage- there are thousands poor girls here who would use this "new start".
 

[Ranetka]

There is a sexual connotation in the use of "Knight".  It doesn't apply when I try to help people of either gender does it?  Are workers in Charitable organizations all Knights?  I don't think so.  I also fail to see how the reality of the FSU where the corruption and low quality of life which are well-documented by international metrics are the product of my psyche.  Nice try though 

Tnaks for your answers Ronnie. Now I can carry on happily ignoring your posts again:-)

[acrzybear]

  In my travels I have seen this "white knight" syndrome numerous times, mainly by American men.  Part of the psychology behind this is that American men are taught from an early age that they are the protectors and providers for women and that Americans want to help those they consider less fortunate.  

 I can be blamed for this syndrome in that I entered law enforcement because I am able to sometimes help people that are unable to speak for themselves (mainly children and animals), I have become more cynical over the years and realize that I cannot save the world, however I can perhaps make a slight difference in my little part of it.

  As far as a wife, I would not want a woman that I have to rescue, but an equal partner in everything.  I would get extremely annoyed with a person that consistently needed reassurance and always agreed with me.  I look at marriage as a partnership where both parties have a stake in the situation.

  But what do I know, I'm just single neanderthal knuckle dragging public servant.  

[Daveman]

Materialism as a way of life in my mind would be defined as a lack of appreciation for spiritual, natural, familial values in favor of an appreciation for the aqquisition of money and objects.

In its extreme it is exemplified by scammers, hustlers and grifters who use deception for material gain.  

In the lives of average people it could be described for example as the kinds of peole who are not satisfied in life unless they are surrounded by luxuries, especially if such luxuries are actually beyond their means.  Or, by those who define their self worth by what they have.

I would disagree that the definition of "materialism" would necessarily include a lack of appreciation for other aspects.

I would define "materialism" as a prioritized belief system where tangible items bring a high level of pleasurable feelings.  A very simplistic summation of a complex topic of interrelated aspects, e.g., one aspect of materialism can be the feeling of pleasure derived from the perception of causation of envious feelings in others.  

What we value are similar to drugs and their effects on the brain (which is actually more truth than analogy).  Some drugs bring a rush, others bring a comfortable feeling.  A new car rush runs fast and furious, but wears off, and another fix must be found.   The rush of a new love wears off, but the comfort of stable emotions and feelings of family replaces it.  

Materialism is not inherently evil but rather just another learned mindset/mentality through a combination of internal and external programming.

A near death experience can change one's value of material things quickly, and a stint of being dirt poor can cause one to wander away from the "pleasures" of spirituality.

The practical value of all of that rambling is that materialism is merely but one aspect of an overall value system which needs to match up in order to fit together for long term compatibility.

[Doll]

As far as a wife, I would not want a woman that I have to rescue,

You see,acrzybear , if there is a "I rescued you" component, then it has to be another (of his wife)-" I am and will always be thankful to you, dear". This latter being the most useful and important for rescue man. This is the trick.

[Ronnie]

 In my travels I have seen this "white knight" syndrome numerous times, mainly by American men.  Part of the psychology behind this is that American men are taught from an early age that they are the protectors and providers for women and that Americans want to help those they consider less fortunate.  

 I can be blamed for this syndrome in that I entered law enforcement because I am able to sometimes help people that are unable to speak for themselves (mainly children and animals), I have become more cynical over the years and realize that I cannot save the world, however I can perhaps make a slight difference in my little part of it.

  As far as a wife, I would not want a woman that I have to rescue, but an equal partner in everything.  I would get extremely annoyed with a person that consistently needed reassurance and always agreed with me.  I look at marriage as a partnership where both parties have a stake in the situation.

  But what do I know, I'm just single neanderthal knuckle dragging public servant.  

I would like to thank you for your service!  Also to those nurses and firefighters and EMT's who save lives.  Let's not forget the teachers, foster parents and the CASAs who try to make life a little better for children. 

I said my decision (to marry an FSUW was complicated and could only be understood by a few (men or women) who can relate.  Others may mock and so they have. 

BTW, I picture the knight as one who rides in on his white steed and scoops up the damsel in distress.  Good for him and her.  But what do you call it when people find themselves swimming across a swift river and when one starts to fail the other says, "hold on to me, let's swim together?"  Nothing heroic there.  No one has an easy life.  It's a struggle for us all.