Rejected for student visa...now what?

[Misha]

I have a friend who brought his wife over from Thailand and the government doesn't even offer English as a Second Language classes.

That is not quite true. The Federal Government sponsors ESL classes. My wife, for example has been studying English now for free these last two years. Where does your friend live? Any large city and most small cities will offer ESL classes free of charge for permanent residents.

[Misha]

As Misha states, genuine proof of marriage must be sent along with the Sponsorship/PR Application.... as well as........
The complete story of First Contact...
The complete story of First Meeting...
Information about Engagement...
Information about the Wedding...
Copies of Emails, Text Message Records, Phone Records, Cards, Letters, Photos of Gifts, Photos of Places we've been together, Photos together with Friends and Family, Photos of Engagement, Photos of Wedding, Airline Tickets, Boarding Passes, train Tickets, Hotel receipts, Restaurant receipts

If you don't mind my asking, how much are you going to submit proving the legitimacy of your marriage? My "love story" for CIC ended being a bit over 50 pages, but I know that some have submitted much, much more.

[UTRO]

That is not quite true. The Federal Government sponsors ESL classes. My wife, for example has been studying English now for free these last two years. Where does your friend live? Any large city and most small cities will offer ESL classes free of charge for permanent residents.

He lives in Bradford Ontario. There is a Federally sponsored Immigration Center there where his wife did indeed go to ESL classes. However she was disillusioned after only a few weeks. She described it more as a Social Gathering with a bunch of Chatty Cathy's and Gossipers. Too many students for one teacher as well. More of a Drop In Center than anything else. She asked for homework and none was available. He then tried to get her into Georgian College for their ESL course, in Barrie, but the Government wouldn't pick up the tuition fees. This is her/his experience and not mine, so I can only go by what he told me. Thankfully Svetlana and I won't be dealing with the issue of ESL.

[UTRO]

If you don't mind my asking, how much are you going to submit proving the legitimacy of your marriage? My "love story" for CIC ended being a bit over 50 pages, but I know that some have submitted much, much more.

Absolutely! This is why I've been at the computer for my third day    Well, my whole Application will be going off in a File Box 16x12.5x10, not an envelope!! How long was your actual 'Meeting' Story?

[Misha]

She described it more as a Social Gathering with a bunch of Chatty Cathy's and Gossipers. Too many students for one teacher as well.

LOL! Ours is a bit like that as well. However, my wife put a lot of effort doing the work they gave her, and I helped her in the evening going over the material, so it was useful for us. Next year, my wife wants to take a writing course at the college in addition to continuing the free courses.

[Misha]

How long was your actual 'Meeting' Story?

By the time we submitted our paperwork, my wife and I had been together, seeing each other daily, for well over a year, so we figured that at point it was not necessary to submit as much. We lucked out and she got a tourist visa, so she had been living with me for a year as well by the time we applied (we had gotten an extension to her first temporary residence visa).

[brucen36]

My "love story" for CIC ended being a bit over 50 pages.

Well,my whole Application will be going off in a File Box 16x12.5x10, not an envelope!!

Holy crap!

[GoodOlBoy]

Absolutely! This is why I've been at the computer for my third day    Well, my whole Application will be going off in a File Box 16x12.5x10, not an envelope!!

Holy crap!

I agree.

And I thought the "pesky" documentation process in the GoodOl' USA was tedious! 


GOB

[UTRO]

I agree.

And I thought the "pesky" documentation process in America was tedious! 


GOB

No Kidding!! I'm not sure what Marina's Medical was like but I met Lyndal and Natasha (Lee008) in Moscow in February, the day she had her K1 Medical and it was nothing like Svetlana's for Canadian Immigration. Sveta was put through 4 hours of prodding, poking, waiting, examinations, chest x-rays, urine test, etc...

[UTRO]

By the time we submitted our paperwork, my wife and I had been together, seeing each other daily, for well over a year, so we figured that at point it was not necessary to submit as much. We lucked out and she got a tourist visa, so she had been living with me for a year as well by the time we applied (we had gotten an extension to her first temporary residence visa).

When we were in Jamaica I gave Svetlana all the paperwork, employer letter, invitation, certified cheque, etc... in duplicate so she could apply for a Tourist Visa(s) to visit in July. I read that if it isn't accepted the first time, that there is a better chance the next time  ??? Her sister-in-law delivered the 1st Application to the Canadian Embassy in Moscow on Monday. My Invitation letter was an absolute gem, if I say so myself So we'll see where that gets us  Nowhere probably!   

[GoodOlBoy]

No Kidding!! I'm not sure what Marina's Medical was like but I met Lyndal and Natasha (Lee008) in Moscow in February, the day she had her K1 Medical and it was nothing like Svetlana's for Canadian Immigration. Sveta was put through 4 hours of prodding, poking, waiting, examinations, chest x-rays, urine test, etc...

Kind of makes you wonder how many FSU women cut and run from this process (immigration) because of such debasing and humiliating treatment by a total stranger (Doctor) for 4 hours. 

Rest assured Dave, your Svetlana loves you a lot. 


GOB

[brucen36]

When we were in Jamaica I gave Svetlana all the paperwork, employer letter, invitation, certified cheque, etc... in duplicate so she could apply for a Tourist Visa(s) to visit in July. I read that if it isn't accepted the first time, that there is a better chance the next time  ??? Her sister-in-law delivered the 1st Application to the Canadian Embassy in Moscow on Monday. My Invitation letter was an absolute gem, if I say so myself So we'll see where that gets us  Nowhere probably!   

So a tourist visa prefaced on the fact that she will eventually become your wife (i.e. that you have already applied for sponsorship)?  I mean do you specify in your invitation letter that she is your wife?

[Misha]

Holy crap!

It is not an easy process. Also, keep in mind that there was an opinion piece in the Globe and Mail last year complaining that the men were treated much more easily than Canadian women wishing to sponsor young hotties from the Caribbean (not true IMHO), so if anything, CIC will probably be a bit more demanding when it comes to men marrying younger women to demonstrate that they are fair. Simply put, I would not encourage anybody submitting a permanent residence application based on one trip and a couple or few weeks together. If it is rejected, it can be appealed, but it will be a very long and a very expensive process.

[Misha]

Kind of makes you wonder how many FSU women cut and run from this process (immigration) because of such debasing and humiliating treatment by a total stranger (Doctor) for 4 hours. 

IMHO, if the USA had Canada's immigration laws, most men would cut and run from this process  Which is why I keep warning Canadian newby's that anything they read about K1's and the like here does not apply to them and that they should expect a long and nerve wracking process.

[Sculpto]

Then even if you married her tomorrow she would not come here immediately anyways, if she insists on completing her degree there first.

she studies by correspondence which means she has to be there twice a year for exams. 

[UTRO]

So a tourist visa prefaced on the fact that she will eventually become your wife (i.e. that you have already applied for sponsorship)?  I mean do you specify in your invitation letter that she is your wife?

Well, we are hoping that because she is now my wife, they will allow her to visit me and her now Stepchildren, in Canada on a Temporary Resident Visa (tourist visa). This can have the opposite effect with Immigration though. They might see it as an attempt by me to try and bring Sveta to Canada and keep her here until our PR Application is accepted, or rejected. I won't do this. I was very adamant and pointed out in the Invitation Letter I wrote, that I would not do this because I am well aware of the risks and that Sveta will have next to no freedoms. She can't work, can't go to school, can't bank, no medicare, can't drive, etc.... Besides she has to return to Russia to help her Dad adjust to living without his recently deceased wife. Plus she has to return to her job and has a flat which she owns outright. Yes, we listed her as my Wife in the Application and made it known that we are persuing a Sponsorship Application. We'll see where it goes. If Sveta's sister-in-law brought the documents to the Embassy on Monday we should have results by late next week 

[UTRO]

Kind of makes you wonder how many FSU women cut and run from this process (immigration) because of such debasing and humiliating treatment by a total stranger (Doctor) for 4 hours. 

Rest assured Dave, your Svetlana loves you a lot. 


GOB

There's no doubt in my mind Rick Ah... and it would be doctor's. There were a few of them and all male! One doctor even thanked her for removing her bra  This would be sexual harassment in the West!  Oh, and when she 'provided' the Urine sample the room had a half glass door! WTF?!?

[Misha]

can't bank, no medicare, can't drive, etc....

Depends on the province. In BC, you can get a driver's license if you have a temporary resident visa (my wife go her learner's almost a year before she became a permanent resident). You can open a bank account if you are not a permanent resident and in BC you can actually get temporary BC Health Care once her application for PR has reached the final stages (i.e. approved in principle).

[UTRO]

You can open a bank account if you are not a permanent resident and in BC you can actually get temporary BC Health Care once her application for PR has reached the final stages (i.e. approved in principle).

You can open a bank account? I tried to do this for Sveta, or at least get her a bank card to show we shared an account together for the CIC Application, but I was unable to. I was told she needed to have a SIN number?!?
Yes, but until Approval in Principal was granted she would be SOL if anything happened and I would potentially be footing a nice hospital bill.

[Misha]

I was told she needed to have a SIN number?!?
Yes, but until Approval in Principal was granted she would be SOL if anything happened and I would potentially be footing a nice hospital bill.

We had the regular travel insurance, but it was nice to be able to get a 6-month BC health care card instead of getting more insurance. Also, the travel insurance only covered health emergencies, but not more mundane stuff. We ended up going to the walk-in clinic once and paid $60 to see a doctor.

I may have mixed up the dates for the bank account. I thought that my wife opened an account before she got her PR, but it may have been just afterward.

[Aloe]

As for the live-in nanny, we have looked into that too.  Registered her on a number of au pair sites, but no bites yet.  It's not something she wants to do, but she is willing to suffer through that for 2 years if she can be here with me.  I don't know why it's so hard to find a position like this since a family can save a LOT of money by paying her only peanuts and she doesn't even have to be live-in.  

What the HELL ?! This just makes me so mad. "She is willing to suffer through that". Well did you think of the children who will be suffering with her?? Or it makes it ok, since it's not your children who will be suffering with a nanny who is hating her job or disliking the kids? What an irresponsible attitude. Awful, just awful.

[brucen36]

What the HELL ?! This just makes me so mad. "She is willing to suffer through that". Well did you think of the children who will be suffering with her?? Or it makes it ok, since it's not your children who will be suffering with a nanny who is hating her job or disliking the kids? What an irresponsible attitude. Awful, just awful.

Why assume the children would suffer?  Do you think most au pair's coming from abroad do this job because this is their #1 choice in a job?  Pretty naive if you do think this.  I'm not saying she would make the children suffer, she already works with children, all I meant was that this would not be her ideal job, cooking and cleaning like a maid for a family that is not your own.  Who the hell wants to do that?

[tfcrew]

     

IMHO, if the USA had Canada's immigration laws, most men would cut and run from this process  Which is why I keep warning Canadian newby's that anything they read about K1's and the like here does not apply to them and that they should expect a long and nerve wracking process.

I noticed this...

    * APRIL 17, 2009

Canada Issues a Wake-Up Call: You May Be a Citizen




By PHRED DVORAK

Thanks to a new law, Canada will bestow citizenship Friday on what its government believes could be hundreds of thousands of unsuspecting foreigners, most of them Americans.


The April 17 amendment to Canada's Citizenship Act automatically restores Canadian nationality to many people forced to renounce it when they became citizens of another country. It also grants citizenship to their children.


The Canadian government doesn't know the precise number or location of individuals affected by the legislation. But it believes most are U.S. citizens, a spokeswoman for Canada's immigration office said. U.S. Department of Homeland Security records show 240,000 Canadians were naturalized in the U.S. from 1948 to 1977; the new law fixes problems that occurred during those years.


To reach that amorphous group of beneficiaries, the Canadian government has turned to YouTube. It's running an ad there titled "Waking up Canadian," in which a man awakens on April 17 to a room festooned with red-and-white Canadian flags. He's met by a welcoming committee consisting of two stuffed plush moose, a hockey player, and a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.


Eligible individuals automatically become Canadian citizens. But they don't get proof of that citizenship unless they apply for it, meaning other countries -- including those that allow people to be citizens of only one nation -- won't be alerted, according to the immigration office spokeswoman. Those people also may renounce their citizenship rights, she said.


The citizenship bonanza is the byproduct of a decadeslong struggle by a motley group of people who claim they were unfairly denied or lost their Canadian nationality. Canadian families who crossed the border in 1947 to 1977 to have their babies in a U.S. hospital found those children weren't recognized as Canadians unless the families registered them with the government. Some foreign brides of Canadian World War II servicemen lost their citizenship if they stayed out of the country for a decade or more.


Then there are the Canadian Mennonites who moved to Mexico in the 1920s to the 1960s. When their children and grandchildren returned to Canada, many found their nationality unclear.


Some such cases languished in litigation for years. Others surfaced in 2007, when new U.S. rules requiring passports for travel between Canada and the U.S. uncovered significant numbers of people who thought they were Canadian, but weren't. The old rules were "quite intricate," said Bill Janzen, an immigration lobbyist in Ottawa for the Mennonite Central Committee of Canada.


The new law offers citizenship to many individuals now in limbo. It also stops the previous practice of granting citizenship in perpetuity to children of Canadians born abroad, limiting eligibility to children of parents born in Canada.

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?p=5455859

[Donhollio]

I want to make sure that you really understand what you will have to pay if she arrives in Canada and leaves you shortly afterward. She will go to the nearest provincial office and apply for social assistance. A single person who qualifies in Canada will range roughly between $13,000 and $17,000 based on what I could find googling. Multiply this by three and you could potentially be responsible over the full three years for a nice sum ranging between $39,000 and $51,000. Are you prepared to pay this or possibly even more money?

Also, IMHO, you should plan for the worst case scenario. You should expect her to stay and you should expect to pay the full amount for the full three years. If you could live with that, then you will be prepared for the worst case scenario. Also, keep in mind that what people say before marriage, may change after they arrive in Canada. Don't expect any sympathy from any government official as they will show you the contract that you signed when sponsoring your spouse. Here is a thread on a forum specializing in Canadian immigration matters that you should read: http://www.immigration.ca/discussion2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44179

 Misha I am wondering just how many FSU types would sit on welfare ? And do it for 3 years ?  All the ones I know have a very good work ethic, and it seems to me  rather pointless to think they'll live  with the dregs of Canadian society, when getting a job would give them something better.  Have you heard of any on welfare ?

[Misha]

Misha I am wondering just how many FSU types would sit on welfare ? And do it for 3 years ?  All the ones I know have a very good work ethic, and it seems to me  rather pointless to think they'll live  with the dregs of Canadian society, when getting a job would give them something better.  Have you heard of any on welfare ?

Short term, yes. This is the story I know of personally (acquaintance who divorced her husband). She went to a shelter and then divorced her husband. She was then granted spousal support (three years I believe). The spousal agreement will be used by the Courts to decide how much support the sponsored spouse will get. Usually, if you had two Canadians  who were married and divorced shortly afterward, neither spouse would get spousal support. However, given the sponsorship agreement and the fact that one party moved and disrupted their lives, then they will invariably get spousal support. This is from the Ontario Women's Justice Network:

Typically, a person gets very little spousal support after a short relationship breaks down. But this is not true of cases involving Sponsorship Agreements. This is because many spouses who are sponsored to come to Canada usually give up a lot to move to Canada. Sponsored spouses may have given up a job. They may not speak English or French fluently. Also, because they are new to Canada, sponsored spouses may face challenges finding a job and becoming self-supporting. The guidelines that help courts decide how much support should be awarded - the Spousal Support Advisory Guidelines - state that short marriages where one spouse moves to be with the other can result in a claim for compensatory support. Compensatory support is support to make up for the sacrifices made and to help that spouse become self-sufficient.

Source: http://www.owjn.org/owjn_new/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=67