Visiting one woman vs a couple of women on the same trip

[Dave13]

I guess all of the guys who used agencys, which does include myself, the real losers, need to take our toys and go home. 

Dave

[ECOCKS]

I guess all of the guys who used agencys, which does include myself, the real losers, need to take our toys and go home. 

Dave

Sounds like semantics to me. I don't know that everyone really defines "using an agency" the same way.

I strongly suspect that the majority of guys here used the agency databases but not so many used the other services such as organized trips, interpreter services, translations, visa process assistance and such.

I joined EM but only accessed the database, made the initial contact through their PM system and then moved to direct email and phone communications. Since some women list email information the PM step was avoided on some. Did I "use an agency" then? I don't think I did the way some people define that but I also have referred people to EM saying they were the agency I used. So, even an individual changes the way they think of the process.

I don't agree with any of the "loser" judgments unless it was out and out a MOB.

[KenC]

Ecocks,
I have long recommended that the guys use agencies as if they were introduction agencies and no more.  Or to utilize their data basis for the same purpose as you did.  I don't see how an agency could be helpful in developing an interpersonal relationship.  One could also use the agencies for some trip coordination (flat rental, airport transportation), but it is really up to the man and woman to establish their own relationship and the sooner the agency is out of that picture, the better.  I even question using the agency's interpretors as their goals may be different from the man's. 
KenC

[russianfront]

I need some help here and advice....Oh I am in a world of trouble..
I removed my listing from cuteonly and elenas as it felt to the be right thing to do since I seem to have developed a realy strong connection with one awesome woman(woman #1) . I  told her that (when she asked me) that if I felt that she was the "one" that I would stop communicating with other women. So I took myself out the ring at the 2 sites I was registered on. I am totally fine with that BUT there is one other lady who REALLY turns my crank...god she (woman #2)is wonderful but we are not at the same place as with the other one but we could be...I can just see it. I promised woman #1 that I would be honest with her always and she already shared some deep secrets with me. She said that she was communicating with some other men but said that she was not really interested in them. She didnt say 100% that she was cutting off comminication though and I am not going to ask her to remove her profile. I want to see if she will do it by herself. My question is, can I still communicate with woman #2 without feeling like I am betraying #1? I don't know how to deal with this situation. It would kill me to tell #2 that I can't speak with her anymore. Oh my delicious suffering...

[JR]

I need some help here and advice....Oh I am in a world of trouble..
I removed my listing from cuteonly and elenas as it felt to the be right thing to do since I seem to have developed a realy strong connection with one awesome woman(woman #1) . I  told her that (when she asked me) that if I felt that she was the "one" that I would stop communicating with other women. So I took myself out the ring at the 2 sites I was registered on. I am totally fine with that BUT there is one other lady who REALLY turns my crank...god she (woman #2)is wonderful but we are not at the same place as with the other one but we could be...I can just see it. I promised woman #1 that I would be honest with her always and she already shared some deep secrets with me. She said that she was communicating with some other men but said that she was not really interested in them. She didnt say 100% that she was cutting off comminication though and I am not going to ask her to remove her profile. I want to see if she will do it by herself. My question is, can I still communicate with woman #2 without feeling like I am betraying #1? I don't know how to deal with this situation. It would kill me to tell #2 that I can't speak with her anymore. Oh my delicious suffering...

Silly Boy!
What did you tell her? Did you give her your word, abide by it.

Have you told her you think she's "the one?" If so then do exactly what you told her you would do or tell her you no longer feel she is "the one" but that now she is only a candidate. Don't start misleading her, you'll suffer big time later.

[Dave13]

KenC, I think some guys, have a unrealistic view, like guys that are five's going after a 10. Of course it's fun,  but sometime down the road it's going to get real rough.    Maybe I was lucky with my interpretors because they gave me good advice, a woman can give you insights on another woman, but you must make it clear that you want the truth. 

Dave

[Gator]

My question is, can I still communicate with woman #2 without feeling like I am betraying #1?

I thought you were WOVO!  WOVO means one and only one.

In any event, No. 1 sounds like a winner.  Now that you have dedicated yourself to her, she should start really opening up.  Ypou have a 1000 questions to ask her to confirm that she is "the one and only maybe."  Perhaps you will grow even closer than now.  Perhaps something will alarm you.  If the latter, and it can not be resolved, you then drop back to No. 2.

I don't know how to deal with this situation. It would kill me to tell #2 that I can't speak with her anymore.

I suggest that you slow down the pace of talking with No.2 to about once per week for one hour only, and never tell her about your travel plans.  When you visit No. 1 and if the meeting fizzles, you can then call Number 2 and say, "Surprise...."

THE KEY TO THIS IS GETTING YOUR ASS ON A PLANE NOW.  So when do you fly? Please tell us "not more than 6 weeks."

[russianfront]

Thanks again for all the advice. I know I have been a naughty boy. I willl dramatically slow down the pace of communications with #2 and stop all together to communicate with anyone else. I told #2 that I am only communciating with her and one other woman now.

So I'll put #2 on the slow burner and really dive into #1 to see how the next couple of weeks go. I see #2 as the really hot babe every guy wants to have on his arms, tight jeans and all and #1 as the potential stable wife who is not as "flashy" but really solid and stable in character.

#1 is really going to have to work to win me over. I want her to take over at this point as I have been driving things so far.

Oh and as far as my travel plans it will be in the summer at the earlies, maybe July. But I will go. I have been there 3x already so its not exactly new to me.

I'll keep you all posted.

[Wraith]

#1 is really going to have to work to win me over. I want her to take over at this point as I have been driving things so far.

So out of curiosity who has been driving #2? Not jumping to a conclusion but merely curious why she is chosen (aside from the 6 hours chat) and still has yet to win you over?

[Brianinaz]

Russianfront

You will find that many people have strong opinions on this and related topics which often correlates with what worked for them.

I will throw in a few observations I have made.

I found that women I met that I had been writing to were often very different than they seemed in the letters. I think it is very difficult if not impossible to develop a relationship until you have met in person. That is the basis for many peoples WMVM approach. You can spend months getting "close" to someone to have it all evaporate in a couple of minutes of face time.

If your girl is with an agency she knows you are writing to others as she is. Often they don't want to bring up the topic but they know. You were advised to be honest if asked but not to go out of your way to volunteer the information. Good advice

I don't think your idea of wanting "her to take over" is a good one. They expect you to take the lead. They expect you to know what you are doing, what you want, and to have a plan to get it done. I don't know if respect is quite the right word but for a lack of a better one I will use it. They seem not to respect a man that is not confident and and taking the lead. It is foreign to them.

[Wraith]

I don't think your idea of wanting "her to take over" is a good one. They expect you to take the lead. They expect you to know what you are doing, what you want, and to have a plan to get it done. I don't know if respect is quite the right word but for a lack of a better one I will use it. They seem not to respect a man that is not confident and and taking the lead. It is foreign to them.

That is on target from most of what I have read through various forums. I was actually waiting for his answer to point that out  He has a bit more experience than I do IIRC but I am literally a sponge when it comes to gleening over this wealth of info here, but from my experience most women I have ever been involved with have generally appreciated the man taking the lead.

[Ade]

Thanks again for all the advice. I know I have been a naughty boy. I willl dramatically slow down the pace of communications with #2 and stop all together to communicate with anyone else. I told #2 that I am only communciating with her and one other woman now.

So I'll put #2 on the slow burner and really dive into #1 to see how the next couple of weeks go. I see #2 as the really hot babe every guy wants to have on his arms, tight jeans and all and #1 as the potential stable wife who is not as "flashy" but really solid and stable in character.

#1 is really going to have to work to win me over. I want her to take over at this point as I have been driving things so far.

Oh and as far as my travel plans it will be in the summer at the earlies, maybe July. But I will go. I have been there 3x already so its not exactly new to me.

I'll keep you all posted.

Anyone that deliberately lies to a woman and misleads them as you are planning to do (slowing down the pace is not stopping) deserves any and all *snip* that comes their way IMO.

Sheesh, guys make such a big freaking deal about judging a woman's character and then you go lie and then to top it all off you say, "I see #2 as the really hot babe every guy wants to have on his arms, tight jeans and all." Very classy and I see you have your priorities all sorted out then. 

Maybe I should fully clarify my stance on this; if you are talking to a woman that is under the impression that you are only talking to her, and you're not, then you should be truthful and tell her. Also, if she is under the impression that you will visit only her, and you're not, you should tell her. In fact, any misdirection either explicitly or implicitly shouldn't be tolerated from yourself or from her. And yes, I understand the kid in candy store phenomena but being honest is just basic human decency. And FWIW, I've nothing against the WMVM approach as long as everyone is open and honest.

[Noyrt]

It is difficult to travel easily there if you are not a native.

I agree, but then sometimes the adventure of getting somewhere made the trip that much more exciting.. Or dangerous however you look at it..

I remember one time I rode the slow electric train from Sevostopol back to Simferopol.  Quite an experinece.. very primative, slow and not comfortable, but to see how some of the native people live and travel from farms to the city, and the experience of the 2 hours of culture I had on that train was amazing.. From the musicians playing in the isles for coins, to the man selling the cartoon porn..  It was great...

T.   

[Noyrt]

I like what GQBlues wrote, "A WMVM is nothing more than a WOVO waiting to happen"

Is there an acronym cheat sheet on this site..  I don't know these?

[KenC]

Is there an acronym cheat sheet on this site..  I don't know these?

WMVM =write many visit many
WOVO=write one visit one

Eventually, you have to get down to just one.
KenC

[Shadow]

Is there an acronym cheat sheet on this site..  I don't know these?

Check the RWD Glossary

To RussianFront, you have no commitment and nothing but a penpal at this time. There for there is nothing wrong in communicating with others. I waited until after the first meeting with MrsShadow, then wrote the others I was communicating with that I met someone I wanted to continue with.

[Ade]

Check the RWD Glossary

To RussianFront, you have no commitment and nothing but a penpal at this time. There for there is nothing wrong in communicating with others. I waited until after the first meeting with MrsShadow, then wrote the others I was communicating with that I met someone I wanted to continue with.

Of course, when you were communicating with many you didn't tell any of them that you were solely talking to them either did you?

[Shadow]

Of course, when you were communicating with many you didn't tell any of them that you were solely talking to them either did you?

No, they never asked and I never told. Neither did I ask them if they were solely talking to me.

[Gator]

No, they never asked and I never told. Neither did I ask them if they were solely talking to me.

That's vital when communicating with more than one. 

You still have 2-3 months before traveling.  That is a long time.  It speaks volumes if you are able to have an interesting conversation every day with a woman over these next months.  I would do my best to nurture a relationship with this woman, and certainly not do anything to risk losing her before you met her. 

OTOH If comnversations become boring and empty, you may want to pick up the pace with Number 2.  I am assuming there is some intellectual connection with Number and it is not just because she is so hot.

 

[groovlstk]

Thanks again for all the advice. I know I have been a naughty boy. I willl dramatically slow down the pace of communications with #2 and stop all together to communicate with anyone else. I told #2 that I am only communciating with her and one other woman now.

So I'll put #2 on the slow burner and really dive into #1 to see how the next couple of weeks go. I see #2 as the really hot babe every guy wants to have on his arms, tight jeans and all and #1 as the potential stable wife who is not as "flashy" but really solid and stable in character.

#1 is really going to have to work to win me over. I want her to take over at this point as I have been driving things so far.

Oh and as far as my travel plans it will be in the summer at the earlies, maybe July. But I will go. I have been there 3x already so its not exactly new to me.

I'll keep you all posted.

One thing you should know (and perhaps you do): the impressions you have of the woman you're chatting with will almost surely be different when you meet her in person. There are guys here who hit home runs on their first visit but they are exceedingly rare. I dated dozens of FSU women during my search and not a single one of them was as I'd pictured in my mind prior to meeting (and I'm sure this cuts both ways and the women I dated felt similarly about me). Always, the more extensive our communications were prior to meeting, the more vivid my impressions were and thus the bigger my disappointment was when we met in person. (And as a side note, my disappointment had nothing to do with the womens' appearances - there are very subtle and important qualities we all possess that can't be discerned through a webcam or chat window.)

Just something to keep in mind during your search.

Also, if you concentrate on one woman at a time, you must be prepared to start from scratch again if things don't work out during your first meeting. Unless you're able to make multiple trips throughout the year this could be a very sloooooooowwww process for you.

[russianfront]

In reponse to the above, I know about home runs. I was married for many years to a woman from Ukraine and this is how that time it went down

Get a letter from a pretty young lady (I had written to her sister but she had already dropped the conecept and was dating a local guy...and this was all by snail mail)

WOW she seems great

Write & call constantly for about 6 months and chatting with nobody else

Get on the plane

Meet her and her father in Borispol airport. Oh damn she is awesome!!!!!!

Spend 6 weeks constantly together both in her parents place (she lived at home) then in a rented pad in her city

Ask her to marry me in week 4

Bribe the lady in charge of ZAGS wedding planning

Get married 3 days later at ZAGS

Honeymoon in Yalta for 3 days

Come home and fill out the paperwork

She arrives 7 months later and we're off to the races

That was many years ago and in the end it didnt work out but we are still friends. She even came over yesterday to hang out with me (and to wash her car lol).

So I have some experience in all this. I am not afraid that all the feelings that I build up with woman #1 will evaporate at meeting. I have time and I am bloddy well going to be sure we are compatible before I fly all the way over there to see JUST her.

In the meantime I am going to keep #2 (sorry if this seems so impersonal) on the slow burner just in case over the next 1-2 months that the spark with #1 fizzles. I want to have a back-up plan. From what I can see I could like them equally but #1 is more advanced as we have had a lot more communications. But if I wanted to crank it up I COULD do the same with #2 as well.

I will keep you all posted!

[HiTech]

The one other thing you are possibly setting yourself up for is ,seeing fairly quickly when you meet that things do not feel right, it is very difficult to drop the relationship  quickly. At this point you really have to look you at your heart square in the nuts, and say do I really see us as an Ideal relationship, or do I just Hope it would be an ideal relationship. If the later it is best to say goodbye quickly.

If you have had a lot of communication and are feeling infatuation before you see her the first time, it will be an agonizing choice to have to jump ship. But someone gave me good advice on my first trip , If it does not feel right, it isn't.

Time on the ground in Russia or Ukraine is very expensive in terms of free time, or money for both of you. To waist it with someone you are not feeling fireworks with, is just foolish, and servers neither you nor your lady any good.

[krimster]

I know that what I am about to write may seem strange to you, but your problem used to be one of the fundamental problems in Artificial Intelligence.  This was called "the depth-first vrs. breadth-first" controversy.  This problem was generally applied to "games" such as chess, where the program had to calculate it's best move in the least time, which is an abstract way of describing your problem.  Expressed in the context of dating RW it means you Depth-first, method - you choose a particular woman and you start from the beginning and you explore as far as possible along each branch before backtracking, er, in other words you see how far the relationship will go with a particular woman, if it goes "real-well", hurrah, you won, game over, if not, you start over and pick another woman.  Now breadth-first is different, here you more or less explore all nodes, but at a superficial level, you see lots of women, from which to prune, but usually you will not get the "real-well" satisfaction you might end up with using depth-first.  This approach takes longer, and requires more searching to be done.  Whatever logical form of conclusion you make, I actually advise something different which is to let the final arbiter be you "gut" or intuition.  In the end this is all a game of chance folks, but it's not purely random.

PostScript,

Another aspect to consider is that the breadth-first approach is universally perceived negatively by the women involved.  They understand you will be seeing others and this will greatly effect their behavior towards you.  You may perceive the women you meet with the breadth-first approach as being reserved or quiet.  Whereas if you met that same woman Depth-first she may have been very passionate, if you know what I mean

[Aloe]

why does everyone assume the woman is necessarily writing to more than 1 guy?
i was talking exclusively to 1 guy for 10 months (thru webcam with voice for a few hours every day) ((only to find out he has 2 other women who he fed exact same BS he fed to me)), took me a long time to get over that, but in any case, maybe she isn't talking to anyone else, and i think you should tell her that you are going to visit somebody else, if you are.
It's likely, especially for someone who is new at this, to fall for someone while talking even through text messages only, so it's possible that the woman isn't talking to anyone else. And if she isn't the only 1 you are talking to, i think it's important to let her know how you view it, and that she SHOULD talk to other guys, just like you talk to other women

[Aloe]

Besides if you don't tell them they aren't the only 1 for you, and they find out on their own, when they already have feelings for you, you don't know what they gonna do about it. I'm not proud of what i did personally, that was totally wrong, but i was so furious...
So you might end up losing all of them.