In Kharkov April 27 to May 24

[Doll]

Mila didn't pre-qualify the women as well as she should have. For whatever reason I don't know.

Is she supposed to? Then men should be "pre-qualified" also.

[kievstar]

faux pas, we heard from CC and Az1 what they thought the service was.  That is different than the other party.  Do not believe everything CC and Az1 said they communicated.  Read the history of CC posts.  He runs into problems everywhere.  He may have an issue with clear communication. Who knows.  Face to face is how you get to know somebody.  

But looks like the three people who really care have left the thread and the rest of us who having nothing better to do keep discussing it.

[Admin]

Wrong again Thomas.

It is a cartoon character (Johnny Quest).

Stop trying to stir up a bunch of hate and discontent.


GOB

GOB,

I think you are trying to be sly with issuing a clearly disparaging insult - reference this link to a definition -- http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hadji.

In the best case, you were ignorant of the colloquial use of the term and meant it harmlessly - though that would be hard to believe - especially since you elected to call someone by a term that had nothing whatsoever to do with them.

You will be seeing the formal Warned status on your account imminently. As this is the 2nd occasion of issuing you a formal warning, I am also notifying you that the next infraction will result in placing your account in Moderated status.

- Dan

[Sculpto]

Is she supposed to? Then men should be "pre-qualified" also.

yes in some cases they should Doll.  That is clearly one of the biggest problems in the industry.  But too many agencies and others are mercenary and will take money from anyone that offers to pay for something.  Greed allows all kinds of bad things to happen on both sides of the gender question.  Once the provider takes money from a client, regardless if the provider thinks the payer is living in a fantasy world the provider has an obligation to represent the payer in the best way.  Anything less is unethical.

So again, it seems there is a need for a more high end service in which providers are pre-screening the clients and giving a much higher level of personal service and reserving the right to decline a client.

[Doll]

yes in some cases they should Doll.

If the deal is translation, pre-qualifying and some other service then it cost another money- thousands. 

[Doll]

   That is clearly one of the biggest problems in the industry.

Sir, just go to RW forum and read many threads about mentally sick men who marry RW- abusers and simple criminals.
Want the link?
There are the agencies that do offer this kind of clearance but the girls are aware of it. In this case both sides were equal.
 

[Sculpto]

If the deal is translation, pre-qualifying and some other service then it cost another money- thousands. 

exactly.. an no one wants to pay that.. they want to do it on the cheap..

I once found a site for a matchmaker in Moscow.. I believe it was intended for rich Moscow guys.. but I thought the service they were offering was interesting.. but i have not been able to find the site again.

Sir, just go to RW forum and read many threads about mentally sick men who marry RW- abusers and simple criminals.
Want the link?
There are the agencies that do offer this kind of clearance but the girls are aware of it. In this case both sides were equal.
 

you realize I am agreeing with you don't you??

[Doll]

Once the provider takes money from a client, regardless if the provider thinks the payer is living in a fantasy world the provider has an obligation to represent the payer in the best way.  Anything less is unethical.

Ok, lets talk business: in this case the provider didn't promise the "quality product"-women, the provider offered the translation (or what was offered?). The translation met all the requirements

[Doll]

they want to do it on the cheap..

Ok, he had it cheap 
Matchmaking costs a lot and I am not sure it is legal to provide this kind of information to the "payer"

[GoodOlBoy]

In the best case, you were ignorant of the colloquial use of the term and meant it harmlessly - Dan

To Dan and the rest of the forum.

I was using the term Had** in a harmless manner or at least I meant it harmlessly.

If I offended anybody with this term, I apologize and offer a BIG SORRY.


GOB (Rick Hill)

[kievstar]

Problem in Ukraine is not enough men will pay for the prescreening to make a business out there. Foreign men by nature visiting Ukraine tend to be cheap.  The dreams of the perfect agency will not exist in Ukraine if it is to be profitable.  No money in it.

If you go the newspaper way and your a man bent on a photo (I myself am guilty), your going to have a lot of disappointment.  Newspaper way is not cheaper than an agency as you have to go through a high number of women to find an attractive one.  

In an agency you can see the photos and do not have to worry as much on the personal appearance as you know upfront.  But the competition is higher from men for the best looking girls in the agency.  The newspaper way has many untouched women. But that can be risky as a RW may upgrade on you later just like most of the divorced AM on this site have done with AW.





  

[Sculpto]

Ok, lets talk business: in this case the provider didn't promise the "quality product"-women, the provider offered the translation (or what was offered?). The translation met all the requirements

yes but she was also doing the ad campaign and that is where both Asif and CC are feeling the got shortchanged.  If all she was providing was translation it would be a completely different story.

[Sculpto]

Problem in Ukraine is not enough men will pay for the prescreening to make a business out there. Foreign men by nature visiting Ukraine tend to be cheap.  The dreams of the perfect agency will not exist in Ukraine if it is to be profitable.  No money in it.

If you go the newspaper way and your a man bent on a photo (I myself am guilty), your going to have a lot of disappointment.  Newspaper way is not cheaper than an agency as you have to go through a high number of women to find an attractive one.  

In an agency you can see the photos and do not have to worry as much on the personal appearance as you know upfront.  But the competition is higher from men for the best looking girls in the agency.  The newspaper way has many untouched women. But that can be risky as a RW may upgrade on you later just like most of the divorced AM on this site have done with AW.
  

you are 100% right Kiev.  I still dont understand why guys aren't making better use of vkontakte.. but on the other hand.. it is a LOT harder to get a ladies attention there.. might have something to do with reality versus fantasy. 

[Daveman]

If the deal is translation, pre-qualifying and some other service then it cost another money- thousands. 

thousands? please...

It was clearly NOT just for translation, the service did also involve placing and and administering responses to the ads.  It was not mentioned whether pre-screening was part of the deal. If it were, we are talking about this:



Hello, I am replying to the ad
- thank you, some quick questions please, do you have children?
yes
- thank you for the response, but the gentleman is not interested in meeting a lady with children

Add to this "how tall are you? what is your weight? etc.." to quickly eliminate those ladies which will obviously not be what the client is looking to find.  How long exactly should that take in conversational real time, asking all of the questions? Perhaps 15-20 seconds at most.


Sculpto, replying to you restaurant analogy..  it doesn't really fit as it is a different genre of business but let's use it anyway -- you go into a restaurant, and you order a steak, you are promised steak, you agree upon steak,,, then the waiter brings out a plate of liver...  you have the option to pay for the coffee and walk away (NOT paying for the steak, or the liver, since that is NOT what you ordered).  But let's run with it.. should the customer shut up and pay the tab? accept the liver and pay for steak? What do you guys think a *reasonable and prudent* customer should do in that situation?

[Sculpto]

Dave.. your point is correct.. but what if you are delivered a steak that is not very good.. its not the prime cut you were expecting.. but, its still a steak..

[Daveman]

Exactamundo Sculpto.

Just like we do here in the GoodOl'USA.

The money/credit card is put on the table BEFORE the work begins (because of what we have seen posted here).


GOB

I'm not sure how business is conducted in Florida, but in the various places in which I have lived, not once have I ever paid for a *service* in advance and not on that, I have laughed the idiot out of my house for suggesting such a thing.  At maximum it is 50% down, and the balance upon completion.   I would never pay in advance for services, here, there, or anywhere -- for the same reasons listed on the other side of the thread.   

[Mir]

You do pay for your apartment in advance.

For translation service it is not possible to pay in advance as it is by the hour and it would not be possible to know that in advance.

[Daveman]

Dave.. your point is correct.. but what if you are delivered a steak that is not very good.. its not the prime cut you were expecting.. but, its still a steak..

First let me make the clear comparison... this would equate, IMO, to meeting ladies within the expected criteria with whom there was no chemistry. She was the right kind of lady (a steak) but you just didn't like her (or perhaps the steak didn't like the eater!) in which case I would personally pay the tab, and suggest to the restaurant manager to get better qualities of meat or a new cook! But in that given situation, I would pay the bill.

[Sculpto]

You do pay for your apartment in advance.

For translation service it is not possible to pay in advance as it is by the hour and it would not be possible to know that in advance.

I had to pay for a block of translation time in advance.. if I didn't use it it was credited back for the next day.. if I went over I was expected to pay it that day..

[Sculpto]

I'm not sure how business is conducted in Florida, but in the various places in which I have lived, not once have I ever paid for a *service* in advance and not on that, I have laughed the idiot out of my house for suggesting such a thing.  At maximum it is 50% down, and the balance upon completion.   I would never pay in advance for services, here, there, or anywhere -- for the same reasons listed on the other side of the thread.   

in CA a GC is allowed to get 10% deposit and then clearly specified progress payments during the ongoing project when certain benchmarks are met.. its a bit different in kitchens.. I take 50% and the balance on delivery.. home depot for example requires full payment to process a cabinet order.

[Sculpto]

First let me make the clear comparison... this would equate, IMO, to meeting ladies within the expected criteria with whom there was no chemistry. She was the right kind of lady (a steak) but you just didn't like her (or perhaps the steak didn't like the eater!) in which case I would personally pay the tab, and suggest to the restaurant manager to get better qualities of meat or a new cook! But in that given situation, I would pay the bill.

ok, agreed.. but getting back to CC's situation.. if he was being introduced to a line up of ladies that did not meet his specifications he should have addressed it right then and there and discussed a discount or refund or credit when there was still time for Mila to do something about it.  Thats the part I don't understand from his actions.. if things were not going right and he had limited time it would seem logical to take drastic action immediately.  But maybe thats just me.. who knows..

[Admin]

You do pay for your apartment in advance.

For translation service it is not possible to pay in advance as it is by the hour and it would not be possible to know that in advance.

>>You do pay for your apartment in advance.<<

You may - but I won't. One of the most heated exchanges I faced in Ukraine was over an apartment squabble. It resulted in the authorities being called, a quick trip to the US Embassy for a meeting with the security officer, threats of "forcible repatriation" and so on. The US Consular corps at the time reported apartment disputes were the leading cause of US Embassy interventions in Ukraine.

Since then, unless I was renting from a known source, I insist on paying only a portion up-front, with periodic (and reasonable) payments for the duration of the stay. In other words, I limit my exposure to potentially corrupt influences. If the apartment agent/owner refuses those terms - I move on. There are plenty that will work with you - especially if you can navigate around Aviso to find listings.

FWIW

- Dan

[Daveman]

ok, agreed.. but getting back to CC's situation.. if he was being introduced to a line up of ladies that did not meet his specifications he should have addressed it right then and there and discussed a discount or refund or credit when there was still time for Mila to do something about it.  Thats the part I don't understand from his actions.. if things were not going right and he had limited time it would seem logical to take drastic action immediately.  But maybe thats just me.. who knows..

Sculpto, this is the point with which I have been in complete agreement all along. I don't understand this aspect either.  I think in depth communication at that time would have been the preferred approach as well as the most beneficial.  

I just don't think these two guys should have been crucified for posting opinions of the service they received, and don't think we have enough information to consider the service provider to have milked or deceived anyone.  There was simply too much piling on for my taste without real factual justification.  

[Gator]

Everyone, please help me understand exactly what Mila provided for a fee?

Apartment - was there a problem other than it was $5/day more than originally thought?

Identification and screening of UW through newspaper ads - one UW had a child, failing to meet one of Az1's mandatory criteria, yet he decided to spend more time with her.  What was Mila's charge for this?  I have no experience with this.  Were the results about par?

Interpreter - Read no complaints.  When I used an interpreter 3-4 years ago, $10 was the rate for all time from "privet" to "paka."

Advice - Giving advice is not infallible.  Many of us give advice here, and some of it is very wrong.  When dating a RW and having a second set of eyes and ears watching her, you naturally will ask the interpreter her opinion.  You listen to her opinion, do your own deliberation and then make a decision.  Next, you monitor results and make adjustments as needed.  One needs to be a man and make decisions, and not depend upon a third party to tell you what to do.  BTW, I agree with Mila and Kievstar that "A" is trouble.

What else?

So there was a disagreement about Mila's services.  It seems that Mila is refunding money paid by Az1.  That's rare for people in this business.  Even someone as reputable as Kevin at Kherson Girls refused to refund $25 for a problem (telephone call) they created when I attempted to work with that agency.

So what am I missing?

Az1, if you are still reading, I agree that you need someone like Mila to hold your hand.  You need some more experience because this venture is not like following a 1, 2, 3 recipe from a cookbook. Make some more trips and try to wean yourself from such services. 

[Daveman]

Gator, I'm not exactly sure what was promised/agreed upon, as opposed to what was "assumed".. two different guys.. I have been concentrating more on CCowboy's story as he provided more detailed information.

My best guess is this:

1) placing ads
2) administering responses to ads and doing basic pre-screening questions
3) Terp the meetings

the questions are...
--did she screen sufficiently?
--should a client pay for interpretation during meetings with ladies who should have been screened?

secondary questions (of which the provider had less control I think, but opinions will vary)
-- what's the story with Peoplenet and the third party 'subleasing' of inet access
-- apartment glitches

Then the wormcanopener - the threat of exposing supposedly confidential details in retaliation for the negative feedback about the services.  This is a biggie, but I ascribe this to her being young and getting caught up in the call for "war" -- not wanting to appear chicken or whatever.. but I really do not think she would have actually done this.

There you have it as I understand it.  I don't see anything really catastrophic anywhere, but some good discussion fodder if the gang could have remained objective.