In Kharkov April 27 to May 24

[Sculpto]

hey!

[Sculpto]

Sculpto and "A"

[gemini]

Sculpto and "A"

[Sculpto]

more like this

[gemini]

more like this

[Sculpto]

lol

[OlgaH]

just eat Ukrainian burritos!  (shwarma)

I guess you are talking about shawarma

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawarma

What are those Georgian things called.. they are dough filled with savory or sweet.. I loved those.. want some right now!

Can not tell.

Have you ever tried khachapuri?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khachapuri

[Sculpto]

I guess you are talking about shawarma

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawarma

Can not tell.

Have you ever tried khachapuri?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khachapuri

We have shwerma in SF.. usually in the middle eastern places.. very similiar to what I had in Ukraine and Russia.. but.. bigger LOL.. (big surprise)

khachapuri is exactly what i was talking about.. I tried them in the izmaylovo market and got hooked.. ended up trying several.. the georgian guys in the stand thought I was funny.   can't find that here that I know of..

[OlgaH]

Sculpto,

I love khachapuri, but have never tried to make it by myself. I found a recipe 

http://www.ruscuisine.com/recipes-by-email/archive/031125.html

and wiki has some links to the  khachapuri recipes.

[Taz]

I go away for a while and I miss all the fun. I came back just in time for khachapuri recipe. Maybe CC and Mila can have a food fight at 50 paces and settle this. Unfortunately he has no plates or cookware to do this...

Mila should provide the service that the client requests assuming it is not unethical, immoral or illegal assuming she agreed to the arrangement.

I think many of you are missing the point here. It doesn’t matter if CC’s expectations with women are unrealistic or not, that isn’t the issue here. He expects Mila to provide a service. She should have provided final copy of the ad. Once she said she knew what to do with respect to the ad, she assumed all responsibility at that point with respect to the ad. CC should have seen the final copy of the ad BEFORE placement! By failing to do that Mila took ownership of that.

Another area where Mila I think failed is in the pre-qualification of prospective women. She should make sure that the client’s criteria are met before arranging a meeting. If he specifies NO DEPENDENT children, then she should make sure that is the case and not arrange any meetings. Otherwise it could be construed as just padding her bill.

[SANDRO43]

Mila should provide the service that the client requests assuming it is ...... unethical, immoral or illegal assuming she agreed to the arrangement.

Excellent advice :evil:.

Unless you forgot to include a NOT in that sentence ?

[GoodOlBoy]

Otherwise it could be construed as just padding her bill.

Give me a break! 

In South Miami, the "illegal" Mexicans make more money per hour (cutting grass and trimming trees), than Mila does from some of our "greedy" RWD members.   :evil:


GOB

[Taz]

Excellent advice :evil:.

Unless you forgot to include a NOT in that sentence ?

Oopps. I'll edit. Shows what happens when I work too many hours.

[Taz]

Give me a break! 

In South Miami, the "illegal" Mexicans make more money per hour (cutting grass and trimming trees), than Mila does from some of our "greedy" RWD members.   :evil:


GOB

GOB- It is readily apparent to me you don’t understand the meaning of context. Do you have ANY idea what the average salary for a well educated professional is in Ukraine? Do you have an understanding of the concept of “cost of living”? If you put Milas fees in the context of her environment, she is VERY WELL compensated vis a vis other Ukrainians. Even at $5/hr. she is earning twice the average in Kharkov. Considering her, lack of experience she is incredibly well compensated at $10 hour. That would be similar to someone making at least $45-$50 an hour in the US and I bet she isn’t paying ANY TAX on her income!

If you are “netting” the equivalent of $45-50 an hour in the US, you are doing pretty damn well.  If you want to stretch it a bit, based on current rates, her salary has almost doubled from a year ago since she is being paid in dollars and not grivna since the grivna has fallen so much. I can assure you based on multiple trips this last year and almost 2 months in country, that cost have NOT DOUBLED in that period of time. As a result she has seen her income versus her peers rise dramatically and she has been very well insulated against the grivna’s decline.

If I had been paid in Euros of the last year I’d be a happy camper too to maybe put the situation in a context you might understand. Ooopps, I forgot, you don’t understand the term “concept” as you obviously demonstrated by your repeated posts showing no grasp of this concept...

You also fail to include the entire “compensation package” of a terp. They often get free meals, drinks, free transportation and other bennies such as nightclubs, shows, etc. I am not saying it is all peaches and cream but there many pluses. I also know that some of my friends have tipped their terps if they didn’t think they got gouged by the bill. In the incredibly rare times I’ve used a terp, I’ve often tipped them or did something very nice for them. I ALWAYS bought their meals and drinks or the night out.

Many terps pad their bills. I’ve seen it personally. Not ALL do but many do. I have no skin in this game. I don’t know Mila and I am not best buds with CC or Az. I call it as I see it. I think things could have been handled better on Mila’s part. It is HER responsibility to set client’s expectations accurately so as to improve the odds of a successful outcome. Always give the client final say so over any ad copy. Always let THEM make the final decision so the client is held accountable not the terp.

I have the sense from reading CC's post that Mila is basically a good terp who screwed up. She should just learn from it an move on. I see that CC can have unrealistic expectations but at times I think we all have had. Mila should have set him straight if that was her sense. I saw another terp do that with a acquaintance of mine. She has room to grow assuming she never does anything as markedly brash and foolish as threaten a client such as she did.

[GoodOlBoy]

GOB- It is readily apparent to me you don’t understand the meaning of context. Do you have ANY idea what the average salary for a well educated professional is in Ukraine? Do you have an understanding of the concept of “cost of living”?

So you believe in "taking advantage" of people because of their circumstances in life?......nice guy.

Do you also hire illegal immigrants to do your labor work, so you can pay less money to them?  :evil:

GoodOlBoy says: What goes around, comes around......"Do unto others".
 


GOB

[Taz]

So you believe in "taking advantage" of people because of their circumstances in life?......nice guy.

Do you also hire illegal immigrants to do your labor work, so you can pay less money to them?  :evil:

GoodOlBoy says: What goes around, comes around......"Do unto others".
GOB

GOB - I am beginning to think that you can't read as well. I know you have a difficult grasp with the concept of "context" but apparently basic reading skills are beyond your grasp as well. I am not slandering you but pointing out the obvious as I clearly stated the part where I said I ALWAYS buy the meals. I often tip. I must be terrible to work for.   Did you ever tip a terp?

Where did I ever advocate “taking advantage” of anyone? If you didn’t receive the service you contracted for, then renegotiate the terms. It is that simple.  Also the service provider SHOULD provide and itemized bill of their services. I track all my billable hours EVERY DAY for every client. It is part of my overhead.

Why would I hire illegals? I have very high moral and ethical standards. Why would I hire people that are criminals? Illegals are just that- ILLEGAL! I have never taken advantage of any class of people. I came from very humble beginnings and worked my way up. My family was dirt poor and we appreciated everything we had.

So I will again say, Mila still was not poorly compensated. Maybe not as well as she liked but still far better than most. I think her dropping the bill on CC with little time to review was a very poor business practice. The lack of an itemized bill was also a poor practice as well. It is more likely to have errors that could be in her favor or against. OTOH it is easier to “bury” hours in a bill for you benefit if you don’t itemize… Not saying she did but it does open it up for abuse.

I too subscribe to the principle what goes around comes around. I have always been very fair, fairer than most, when it comes to business dealings. I am more likely to overlook many of the things Mila did but the threat to divulge personal information was sheer lunacy on her part. That violates one of the basic tenets of any client and professional service provider relationship. Of course if she isn’t a “professional” then I guess it doesn’t really matter. At her billable rate, I would expect the highest level of professionalism as she is definitely in the upper echelon income in UA for a non-oligarch or somebody without amazing “connections”.

Hell, if I could consistently net $10/hr year round in Ukraine, with the extra bennies such as free food, etc. I’d live there. Over 20k a year is very good money in Ukraine especially if you aren’t in Kiev. If you want to put things in perspective, multiply her income by at least a factor of 5 and closer to 7 times. Now that is going to be her NET so add on another 30-40% to factor in the lack of taxes. So at $10/hr she is making the comparable equivalent of about $150-200k in the US. If she only makes $5/hr that is $75-100 assuming she only works 40 hours a week and doesn’t factor in any “commissions” fr m apartment owners or other “value added services” such as Internet rentals…

Don’t forget again that compared to the norm her salary almost effective doubled the last year since the dollar strengthened against the grivna. What kind of a pay raise did you get last year? Was it anywhere near Mila’s?

Again I’ll say I have nothing against Mila. She is young and inexperienced. She is more likely to make mistakes. However if you pay top tier rates then you should get that level of service.

I personally would like to hear her side of all this. I am curious to see how she presents herself beyond threatening her clients.

[kievstar]

Only 3 people really know what took place between Mila, Az1, and CC. 

Question for the CC and AZ1 supporters - have you ever met Az1 and CC in person? 

[Faux Pas]

Only 3 people really know what took place between Mila, Az1, and CC. 

Question for the CC and AZ1 supporters - have you ever met Az1 and CC in person? 

"Most" of the Mila supporters haven't met her in person either. How should that affect their opinion either way?

[kievstar]

Character says a lot of about someone.  People are different in person than on the internet. Anyone can be a keyboard romeo or arm chair quarterback. 

CC has been going to Russia since 1994 so I imagine someone on RWD must have met him in person.  Az1 says he has a friend who referred Mila to.  I would like to see people who met CC and Az1 speak about their character. 

I know my character is crap on this board but I do not care.

[Taz]

If since 1994, that means CC has been an adult longer in Russia/Ukraine than Mila! 

She wasn't even a teenager when he was going to Russia. Then again she wasn't even born the first time I was in Russia. Now I am feeling old.

[SMS60]

Ahhh.........

Whats going on here is a common scene played out everyday somewhere in the world. I think it is more common in states because of the way society here has become over the years.

No one can think for themselves anymore. They want other people to do it for them, like the goverment.

People lack personal responsibility. They do not want to be accountable. I guess it looks weak in their eyes. They want to blame all problems or faults on other things or people ( the blame game). I guess you look weak if you blame yourself. That darn ego always gets in the way. You have to feed it some how. Somebody or thing has to take the fall and its not going to be me.

You dont have to know the parties here. Its about other things which really stick out.

I see 2 "grown" men who did not have things go perfectly and will not take any responsibility for the events which happened who feel the need to blame something to justify the actions.

Maybe they did not recieve the service they thought they were paying for. If it is the case you do not post a 1/2 page report blaming an individual in every paragraph. It could have been done in better taste. They have an ax to grind with someone and it is very apparent. They are going about it in a very childish way. Not the way an older, mature "man" would tackle the problem. This says alot about peoples character.

Its no wonder WM are getting a bad rap in some circles.

[Sculpto]

SMS gets it.   

[Taz]

I think as people get older, they become more likely to complain. I understand that very well. I've seen it with my mom.

A few key points stand out for me assuming CC is accurate. One point doesn't pertain to his accuracy as Mila herself made it.

Against Mila:

Mila didn't pre-qualify the women as well as she should have. For whatever reason I don't know. I hope it wasn't to add more service time but I'll give her a pass on that potential abuse. JD had a major issue with this as well in Kharkov.

Didn’t have CC review the ad. The few times I did this, my terp/support gave me final review before submission. This was a major problem with how she handled this. This unfortunately likely had a direct impact on the number of women that wanted to meet him.

She should have provided an itemized bill with sufficient time for review and discussion. In general I think terps on a long term engagement should give status reports or not wait longer than a week to settle up. It reduces their risk as well. Less chance a client would skip out without paying.

Internet was a fiasco. She should have known better if this is her profession and not her first gig. Many guys want internet.

I can give her a pass on the dishes. Last apartment I rented didn’t have adequate cooking devices and the host brought it up to snuff while I was there.

The bed would have been an issue for me. She should have checked if that was one of his prime requirements.

Most egregious of all is the threat to divulge personal information if he doesn’t do what she wants. This is tantamount to blackmail and is an instant DQ in my book. No need to look further after I saw that. Nothing that CC or Az rose to the level of this response.


Against CC:

Unrealistic expectations are definitely in full bloom here. He didn’t have to put his exact age but he could have just put mature.

Willing to rely on Mila’s reputation more than his instincts.

Petty about minor stuff like cookware. Not the end of the world but definitely an  annoyance.

Possibly a failure to clearly define what he expected from her. In effect a SOW would have been good. God help you if you actually know that acronym.


So where do they go from here. I am still waiting to see Mila’s response. I personally would like to see a public apology from her to threaten the release of her client’s data in a public forum. This is an unforgivable sin though in my eyes but would be a start. CC needs to refine his expectations and being so picky. He does come across as zhadni in Russian. For most RW this would be the kiss of death for the relationship.

I don’t think in general CC was really drilling Mila. He had some legitimate concerns about his ad and bed. His failure was trusting implicitly that she would do everything correctly with respect to this even though he did have experience in this. She should have heeded his request for review AND provided him immediately with a translated copy of his ad once it was placed. There could have been time to make changes.

Mila seems like a good, well intentioned person who screwed up with the client’s while in country. It happens. Again the biggest issue for me is her response on this forum to with her threat to divulge info. I don’t get too caught up in how someone presented a message as others might. I listen to the message. So what if CC seemed pouty, whiny, immature, etc. What doest that matter if his message is accurate? The substance is more important than style in this situation as far as I’m concerned. Of course style is most important to RW!!!

Bottom line for me is Mila provides a “professional” service and should act like a professional. Not you pissed me off so hell hath fury like a wronged Ukrainian terp mentality. A scorched Earth policy just puts her country up in flames. The turf is HER homeland, not his…

I personally hope she will learn from this. CC is probably too old to learn. I hope that he will as well. I hope that neither of them will become bitter or cynical.

I'll leave you with one thought who might be major Mila supporters (I don't hate her). What if your DOCTOR or LAWYER threatened to release your private medical or legal information without your consent? Can you think of ANY circumstances where they are justified in doing so? Do any of those involve getting into a row with them? I think not. They have responsibility to protect your confidentiality. I submit that professional terps to do as well. I further submit that we should start a recommended code of conduct for professional terps if there isn't already one somewhere we can copy. 

[Daveman]

SMS gets it.   

I don't follow the logic there.  I agree with "take responsibility", etc. etc., but this is simply another avoidance of the thrust of the discussion -- in this situation you have a guy who clearly stated that he paid for a service that wasn't rendered... and he clearly stated what he paid for, and what service was NOT rendered.  

I don't see Taz comments as advocating "take advantage of the Ukrainians".. that's nothing more than another smoke screen in an attempt to obfuscate the real points of discussion in the thread... which is the typical method of approach for those without a leg upon which to stand in actual point counterpoint debate.

Taz is basically saying the same things I wrote about in a related thread beginning here:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9617.msg184938#msg184938

If the service of pre-screening was paid for, and agreed to by the service provider, then this service was NOT rendered. Calling the OP as many names as desired, or attempting to deflect the discussion in any other direction does not negate this simple point.  

[GoodOlBoy]

Its no wonder WM are getting a bad rap in some circles.

Exactly SMS.

Can you now imagine contacting Mila (after these 2) and trying to negotiate your travels to the Ukraine with her?

Yeah right!

A few more like these guys and I can promise you Mila will not be so "nice" to deal with.  :evil: 


But wait a minute......If you continue to believe the tripe spewed out here, Mila will ALWAYS "appreciate" being screwed over by RWD member's and stiffed for her salary and welcome whatever crumbs are dropped at her feet......

Because she lives in a "poor" country with a "bad" economy and she has no pride or self-esteem.....right Taz? 


GOB