Ukraine vs. Russia, Pros and Cons?

[Sculpto]

One of the biggest.  Some hide the extent of their wealth.

PS - I find his false "Ukrainianism" as goofy as Tymoshenko's populist braid.

The people I met loved him.  They said he was responsible for ending the bloodshed and fixing up the city. 

[Shadow]

The opposition to the Orange?  Do you mean they were in favor of the voter fraud in favor of Kuchma?  Are Ukrainians not entitled to choose who will govern, or is that still better left to Moscow?  Apparently the mostly Russian residents of Donetsk believe so.

I'm puzzled why some folks in this day and age, use language more fitting in 1850's France.  "Working Class," so wouldn't that include anyone who works?  Is a Harvard MBA working at an investment banker for Goldman Sachs a member of the "working class?"  Even if she was raised by a single parent on food stamps?  Who decides a person's class?  In modern society, I don't believe these old cliche's are meaningful at all.  But they are still being used by the far left, anti-capitalists.  As Ronnie Reagan used to say, "It's not that our liberal friends are ignorant, it's just that what they know isn't so."

Ronnie, first of all the Ukrainians have got the right to choose who will govern, and that goes if the choose a pro-Russian government as much as when they choose a pro-West government, or do you disagree with this ?

Secondly, one might argue that the Orange party in Ukraine are liberals. 

[WmGO]

Well, I didn't have time to read this thread, but I note the original
title.

In regards to the title of this thread, I have read in MANY places
and I have heard it in MANY places, that Ukraine women are BETTER
than Russian women!

What say ye FSUW? 

[FSUW *not* WM]

 :evil:

 
 

[Ooooops]

In regards to the title of this thread, I have read in MANY places
and I have heard it in MANY places, that Ukraine women are BETTER
than Russian women!

What say ye FSUW? 
 

I don't have to say anything - I'm half-n-half.       Not sure though, if I've combined the best or the worst of two genomes...   

[Sculpto]

I don't have to say anything - I'm half-n-half.       Not sure though, if I've combined the best or the worst of two genomes...   

clearly the best

[victoria]

I'm half Russian - half Ukrainian (mother - father).    But I also think that I've combined the worst of those two halfs...   

Anyway...  back to the question - what kind of qualities are looking in the future wife?   Something purebred of puppy mill?    Hair color?   Ability to cook?   Childbearing? 


Sorry, people, but when I read posts like that it just ticks me ...    Sounds like somebody's going to pick up a prise cow and asking which country produces the best one... 

I have the same feeling sometimes when reading these posts...

[groovlstk]

It seems guys are damned if they are trying to be practical (never mind that the original question of Russia vs. Ukraine is very silly once you get beyond the visa issue) and damned if they are too romantic and dreamy and w/out solid plans.

Putting these considerations in proper perspective, such questions aren't much different than a guy asking his single friends where the best places are for meeting single women.

[Sculpto]

where the best places are for meeting single women.

everywhere. 

[groovlstk]

I totally agree ladies.  After all when women are looking for a husband all they want is someone who is smart, handsome, has a good job, likes/wants kids, willing to help around the house, likes his in-laws etc.  A woman seems to be willing to take just about any man so why won't a man take just any woman?

FWIW, I think this is overly simplistic. Plenty of men here went that route - thinking that being a decent man, a good provider, and wanting children were "enough" to keep their Russian wives happy. Romance and passion are needs too, even if they are not as easy to quantify as your annual salary and willingness to have kids. If you marry young woman who selects you for practical purposes there's a risk she'll find what she's looking for outside marriage.

[Mir]

a huge proportion of Ukraine's communist party was Jewish until the 1960's.

Well quite a few leaders of Bolshevik party were Jewish or had strong Jewish links including Lenin (strong Jewish links) and Trotsky (Jew).
To me it looks as if the power struggle between Stalin and Trotsky was between the Non-Jewish and Jewish Bolsheviks which was (perhaps sadly) won by Stalin.

[Sculpto]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx

My understanding.. and I might very well be wrong, is Yiddish intellectuals of the time were in favor of the revolution because they had for so long been the target of discrimination.. the Pale of Settlement specifically.. they believed the anti-religion of the revolution would free them.

Correct me if I am wrong. 

[JR]

I totally agree ladies.  After all when women are looking for a husband all they want is someone who is smart, handsome, has a good job, likes/wants kids, willing to help around the house, likes his in-laws etc.  A woman seems to be willing to take just about any man so why won't a man take just any woman?

LOL, if that's all a woman wants then most men are in for trouble because they can't fill half that list

[JR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx

Correct me if I am wrong. 

You're wrong

[Ooooops]

After all when women are looking for a husband all they want is someone who is smart, handsome, has a good job, likes/wants kids, willing to help around the house, likes his in-laws etc.  A woman seems to be willing to take just about any man so why won't a man take just any woman?

 

  That's why so many people prefer to stay single... 

[Daveman]

I totally agree ladies.  After all when women are looking for a husband all they want is someone who is smart, handsome, has a good job, likes/wants kids, willing to help around the house, likes his in-laws etc.  A woman seems to be willing to take just about any man so why won't a man take just any woman?

Yeah, some women are that way and some men will marry any woman who shows them a bit of attention...the percentages/ratios are probably about equal across the gender lines,  but do you honestly think that is a *healthy* pattern?  

The extremes of either end - take anything that breathes or so picky no one could ever measure up to the fantasy - don't sound very promising for happiness.  

edit: nevermind.. I think just now caught the dripping sarcasm.. 

[Boethius]

d

[Boethius]

d

[Ooooops]

edit: nevermind.. I think just now caught the dripping sarcasm.. 

Have another coffee   

[Sculpto]

A significant number of Jewish intellectuals were communists and socialists.  And I do think you are correct that this had to do with the discrimination they faced.  However, all of these Jewish intellectuals were anti religion.  You wouldn't see religious Jews joining this movement.  Also, while Jews were disproportionately represented among the Bolshevik leadership and the Menshevik party, the majority of the Russian Empire's Jews, living in Ukraine and Belarus, were not involved in politics at all.

After the Revolution, when the Bolsheviks were trying to consolidate their power, there was a policy of nationalization.  This included a flourishing of Yiddish culture and literature (with an intent to have this Yiddish culture replace Jewish religious life).  However, as with all other minorities, this was, a scant decade later, completely suppressed.

ETA - Sculpto, if you are interested, here is a link to a book on the subject.  You can preview some of the book here as well -

http://books.google.com/books?id=eS03_4qpDo4C&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=yiddish+culture+bolsheviks&source=bl&ots=sW6b-pg1gU&sig=TIaKUKoDDLWl9X4WqB-j-dWL2qE&hl=en&ei=tRcuSuLfDpiuNbDKhYgK&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#PPP1,M1

I am moderately interested and will add that to my reading list.  On a side note.. I visited Trotsky's house in Mexico City on my first trip there in 1987.  At the time I knew very little about the USSR and its history.. I went mostly out of curiosity and because Frida Khalo's house is just around the corner.  Next Mexico trip will definitely include a revisit to the Trotsky house.

[TexasJetMan]

Hello all, Brian from Dallas Texas USA here, just read a lot of the post and came across the summary of Ronnie on post reply number 51, it appears he is quite detailed and has some very good words of wisdom. There hasn't been a lot of replies from others with this much detail and summary, I am very interested in the city of
Poltava.
Here is Ronnie's summary,
 Easily the most beautiful women in the FSU and that is also the reputation it has.  My theory is that because this is where Swedish King Charles XII met his Waterloo 300 years ago, that many of his captured men stayed on.  More natural blondes than anywhere in the FSU from my observations.  Again, just a theory and not well researched at that.  But there seem to be a higher percentage of attractive women than any other city.

Can anyone else add to this summary? Thank you for your time and efforts on this board, I am very impressed, as I am new to this and have yet to make my first trip.

[Sculpto]

Hello all, Brian from Dallas Texas USA here, just read a lot of the post and came across the summary of Ronnie on post reply number 51, it appears he is quite detailed and has some very good words of wisdom. There hasn't been a lot of replies from others with this much detail and summary, I am very interested in the city of
Poltava.
Here is Ronnie's summary,
 Easily the most beautiful women in the FSU and that is also the reputation it has.  My theory is that because this is where Swedish King Charles XII met his Waterloo 300 years ago, that many of his captured men stayed on.  More natural blondes than anywhere in the FSU from my observations.  Again, just a theory and not well researched at that.  But there seem to be a higher percentage of attractive women than any other city.

Can anyone else add to this summary? Thank you for your time and efforts on this board, I am very impressed, as I am new to this and have yet to make my first trip.

There are gorgeous women everywhere you go in the FSU.  Period.  Someone might say Poltava has the prettiest.. others might say scam central in Lugansk does.. and there are all kinds of theories why.. at the end of the day.. imagine being a man in post WW2 USSR.. what were the percentages of men to women immediately after the war?  How hot a girl could an ugly guy marry at that time? 

[Boethius]

Hello all, Brian from Dallas Texas USA here, just read a lot of the post and came across the summary of Ronnie on post reply number 51, it appears he is quite detailed and has some very good words of wisdom. There hasn't been a lot of replies from others with this much detail and summary, I am very interested in the city of
Poltava.
Here is Ronnie's summary,
 Easily the most beautiful women in the FSU and that is also the reputation it has.  My theory is that because this is where Swedish King Charles XII met his Waterloo 300 years ago, that many of his captured men stayed on.  More natural blondes than anywhere in the FSU from my observations.  Again, just a theory and not well researched at that.  But there seem to be a higher percentage of attractive women than any other city.

Can anyone else add to this summary? Thank you for your time and efforts on this board, I am very impressed, as I am new to this and have yet to make my first trip.

I'd say his theory on beautiful women is historically inaccurate.  The survivors of the Battle of Poltava either escaped to Moldova, or were taken as prisoners to build St. Petersburg.

There is a village about 40 km from Kyiv.  On one side of the river, everyone in the village is olive skinned and green eyed.  On the other side, everyone is blonde and blue eyed.  In my Grandmother's village in Western Ukraine, everyone is blue eyed and blonde.  None of those areas ever saw a Swedish battle.

Sculpto, women from that era who lost husbands in WWII rarely remarried.  Not because they wanted to, and couldn't, but because they felt to do so would be a betrayal of their deceased husbands.

[Sculpto]

Sculpto, women from that era who lost husbands in WWII rarely remarried.  Not because they wanted to, and couldn't, but because they felt to do so would be a betrayal of their deceased husbands.

I am not talking about those who lost husbands.. but those who were never married or came of age shortly after the war.  The male female ratio must have been heavily in the favor of the men.

[miladana]

Re: Ukraine

Pretty B&W considerations would be:

No visas required for entry.

Cheaper.

Easier to get around in.

Language the same.

Subjective opinion:

Women are just as pretty but I stop short of saying the same (see below).

Attitude is a bit more pro-western and less exposed to the propaganda.

As for Odessa, city has a pretty open feeling to it. Between the tourism and city's position as an international port with lots of history, there is a fairly friendly atmosphere there. A million or so folks makes it big enough to be big, but not so big you cannot walk around the main areas or get where you're going relatively quickly.

Enjoy!

i have to say, i completely agree with you.. on this.

in Ukraine.. the attitude is so much less anti-american.. Russian women wont say this to American men { few like to say bad things on someone's face} but they mostly arent that gaga over America...

disclaimer : i am a Russian girl, not Ukranian