All eggs in one basket

[Tanner]

I have read over and over when you go to the FSU to have a back up plan/girl/girls just in case.  My question is how to effectively coordinate this plan.  My speed bump is what to tell the women that is the backup.  Would you say "I may drop into the Ukraine out of the blue, so it is possible to receive a phone call from me in the near future."  I guess this excuse works better for me then most because I currently live in Germany and it is only $400 round trip.  But I don't think my first time meeting on of my "lady friends" should be unexpected for them.  Please share ideas or what you have done or recommendations.

[Shadow]

If you live in Germany, what is against making multiple short trips ? It worked for me.
If you take a flight on Friday, and return on Sunday or Monday you will have 2-3 days to get a first look at the woman and decide if you want to follow up.
It saves you the hassle of excuses, time is short enough not to get in to trouble even if the date ends in 10 minutes, and yo do not have to find all in one location.

Backup plan can be to enjoy the scenery or tourists traps. It does not always have to be another woman.

[Tanner]

Thanks again Shadow.  I am glad to see my conscience is telling me the same things as someone with experience like yourself.  I told her I would come on a Friday and leave on a Monday or Tuesday.  She said that she would arrange the apartment and meet me at the air port.  She speaks perfect English so I think it will make my first trip to the FSU a lot easier.  I like the idea of being a tourist as a back up. 

[BillyB]

My speed bump is what to tell the women that is the backup. 

I'm going to start a thread soon, today or tomorrow, with the answer to your question. You can tell the ladies the truth they are the backup, they will respect you and you will get dates with them. Stay tuned on how to do that.

[Blues Fairy]

You can tell the ladies the truth they are the backup, they will respect you and you will get dates with them.

If I were told such a thing I would tell the guy to go to hell, respectfully.

[BillyB]

If I were told such a thing I would tell the guy to go to hell, respectfully.

It's easy to say that in a forum but when a guy calls you out of the blue and shows interest in you, your attitude is different. Just wait and see my answer Bluesfairy. Deep down you'd respect a guy that tells you the ugly truth instead of a beautiful lie. You wouldn't hang up on him as fast as you'd want us to believe. I've been gone a few months and now notice your new avatar. Congrats on your baby.

[tfcrew]

Quote from: BillyB on Today at 05:54:11 PM
You can tell the ladies the truth they are the backup, they will respect you and you will get dates with them.

If I were told such a thing I would tell the guy to go to hell, respectfully.

Or go somewhere...I agree.

Perhaps this is why BillyB is still looking?

"A faint heart n'er won fair lady" ....Billy Shakespear

[groovlstk]

If I were told such a thing I would tell the guy to go to hell, respectfully.

My wife would be the same way, although I don't know how one can wish such an itinerary on another in a respectful manner 

To the OP: There is no perfect answer to your situation. Every option is a minefield.

[Blues Fairy]

It's easy to say that in a forum but when a guy calls you out of the blue and shows interest in you, your attitude is different.

The guy goes right back to the blue from whence he came.
Billy, seriously, do you think women have to be grateful for the very fact that a man shows interest and accept it on any terms?  Sorry but some of us can very well send him packing if he tramples on our pride.  If you prefer a different kind of woman, its totally up to you, but don't generalize.

[kievstar]

For the men on the board how would you feel if a woman came to USA and said your on my list of men to see as I have a backup plan.

A high quality girl does not want to be on a list to see.  She wants to be the reason your coming. 

Another thing if you have a date with a high quality woman you have good chemistry with you will blow it if you continue to see other women after this first date.  You may get a 2nd and /or 3rd date with her but she is not going to marry you.  She has all ready written that off and you have become a casual dating partner. 

Have you noticed the many trip reports over the years where men cannot make up there mind and start juggling women and the women know it.  Have you noticed they may get more dates but never do they marry.  They may even meet the woman on 2 or more visits over a course of a year.  But it ends without marriage.  People do not like to be second or third choice.

[GregfromGa]

BillyB, you've been around here a long time but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. In 2001 when I got those 600+ letters and emails by accident from going to one lone dating agency in Tallinn, I made the mistake of telling a few of those girls that I was going over to see a couple of others. Heck I didnt know. Even back then that notion was not accepted by anyone. One Russian girl from Saransk went so far as to tell me to never write to her again because she had a guy from San Fransisco coming to see her. The funny thing about that is 8 years later we still talk from time to time on the computer. She's married now but we are still friends.

I just dont think you can easily juggle 4 or 5 girls on a trip but you certainly cannot go see just one without a backup or backup's. It's a tough call. The agency girls are almost certainly going to continue in most cases to date possible prospects after you leave. I'm just happy I dont have to deal with this anymore.

[GQBlues]

Please share ideas or what you have done or recommendations.

On that premise, this is what I did.

I was a WMVM. I was honest front and center with what my plans were. Make my acquaintances and leave for Moscow within 2-3 months time. Each one knowing I plan on meeting multiple acquaintances. I kept my correspondences at the platonic level trying not to get too personal with anyone before leaving. I made it known to each one that my visit was to find out if meeting in person will perpetuate mutual desire to explore any possiblity of pursuing deeper relations with one another. I made no other promises other than doing everything I can to make the trip as planned.

Luckily, the majority of the ones I've written to, understood. A couple of apprehensive ones, and a couple who declined. One of those I met, eventually became my wife.

I was prepared to lose contacts because of this, but all things considered, I believed it's the most respectful, fair and honest approach I felt I can do for everyone.

Recommendation: You first need to understand who you are and what you can handle. Every person need to stay within their comfort and limitation. If this isn't in your nature, I would highly advise you seek another way.

[Gator]

if you have a date with a high quality woman you have good chemistry with you will blow it if you continue to see other women 

True.  I used to think that this was mostly because of the combination of a) the commitment that a RW has made to consider foreign men and b) the oddities of a long distance relationship.  Discussions with some RW here in Tampa suggest that it has nothing to do with these two.

It seems that most sincere, good-hearted RW do not date casually. They meet a man (AM or RM, no difference).  If they like him, they continue to see him and not others.  And dependent upon the dynamics between the two, the relationship either grows or flops, and not because of comparative shopping.

Have you noticed the many trip reports over the years where men cannot make up there mind and start juggling women and the women know it....Have you noticed they may get more dates but never do they marry.  

I assert that if a man met a quality RW whom he liked and she were interested in him, he would not juggle and instead terminate further discussions with the others.  Caveat:  If he had any sense that is what he would do.

In BillyB's defense, he was engaged for an extended period and his woman was denied a fiancee visa.  Sad  Good to see you again Billy.

[Faux Pas]

Recommendation: You first need to understand who you are and what you can handle. Every person need to stay within their comfort and limitation. If this isn't in your nature, I would highly advise you seek another way.

Agreed. I was a WOVO and from the advice I received, I had a backup plan that was only an agency phone number in my pocket. I am thankful I never needed it. There is the WOVO and the WMVM and many variations in between and it is highly advisable for one to do what one is most comfortable with.

[JR]

I go with GQ Blues on this one. If you are always upfront and haven't attached any emotional strings before you go then there shouldn't be any problems with seeing a number of ladies while you are there. If you lie or make statements which are false or misleading you should expect to be brushed off.

[GregfromGa]

If GQ Blues tells you it's raining you can grab an umbrella. Not only has he been around here for years and years, he's married to one of the prettiest women you have ever laid your eyes on. This can be a difficult process at times. It's not cheap to fly, it's not cheap to stay, it's not cheap to dine at Soho in Kiev. The weather can be brutal and the women can be even colder. Most of your friends will think you're crazy as a loon but they wont tell you. It makes it all worth while the first time your wife goes to the market and makes borscht.

[BillyB]

The guy goes right back to the blue from whence he came.
Billy, seriously, do you think women have to be grateful for the very fact that a man shows interest and accept it on any terms?  Sorry but some of us can very well send him packing if he tramples on our pride.  If you prefer a different kind of woman, its totally up to you, but don't generalize.

Blues, just because a guy calls a woman up in the FSU and says he'd like to take her out after his failed WOVO trip doesn't mean he's evil, bad or a playboy. You and the majority of others this thread are thinking wrong.

The truth is a WOVO guy is your's and other sincere women's type of man and when you figure him out for who he is, it's not going to be easy to tell him to "go to Hell". If a guy calls you and he goes on defense after you ask him why he's in the FSU, yeah you're going to think he's hiding something such as other women. But if he tells you the truth and gets his point across that he's a WOVO dedicated and loyal man on a failed WOVO trip, most women would not turn him down on a date and actually respect him more because he's the type of man they're looking for when it comes to loyalty and being faithful. I KNOW. Soon I'm going to explain some real life situations that happened with me and what I said and no FSU woman has ever turned me down in this exact situation.

One can take this ugly scenario and turn it into a positive. A guy doesn't need to defend himself when he's done nothing wrong and a guy doesn't have to tell a half truth or a beautiful lie that he's just a tourist either to make you and other ladies think he's an honest man. Would you really prefer men to lie to make you feel comfortable with them? The truth may hurt you're not the first one a man came to see but you got to respect him telling you the truth.

[JR]

Ahhh, borscht......Daveman, can you smell it?  Borscht is better than sex

[Blues Fairy]

Blues, just because a guy calls a woman up in the FSU and says he'd like to take her out after his failed WOVO trip doesn't mean he's evil, bad or a playboy.

No, it only means I was not his first choice and he's falling back on this plan after a failed first attempt.  

See, Billy, you think that being honest is enough to score a point with a woman and she'll take pity and meet a man after a failed WOVO.  Like hell.  If, by the time he takes a trip, he has not figured out I am worth more than being a second choice, then he's either stupid or hasn't invested enough time/brainpower into figuring me out. Either way, respectfully, he goes to hell.

(BTW this scenario you describe greatly reminds me of a character from Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, Mr. Collins) 

[BillyB]

.  If, by the time he takes a trip, he has not figured out I am worth more than being a second choice,

A guy may have never known you existed before his trip and never written or called you to be a second choice. He may have gotten your contact info in a dating site or called up a marriage agency you may have been listed at after a failed WOVO. He may have focused on one woman this whole time with negative results. A woman may be a backup plan but it doesn't reduce any her fine qualities. More women than not are not the first woman a man communicates with. I have no problem with being someones second or 33rd choice as long as she's a good woman that's a good match for me. Very few people end up marrying their first choice. Very few people have the wisdom to make a good first choice. When I DO make a commitment with a woman, then there will be no doubt that we are each other's #1.

[Misha]

When I DO make a commitment with a woman, then there will be no doubt that we are each other's #1.

I must have missed something. I thought you had a fiancee?

[Blues Fairy]

A guy may have never known you existed before his trip
Very few people have the wisdom to make a good first choice.

But if he tells me I'm the second choice it means he knew I existed before he took the trip and he even made some research, to rank the choices.  If so, then see my previous post. 

If he didn't know about me and I didn't know about him, why tell me I'm the second choice?  What's the point of this honesty?  I hardly even know the man; telling me I'm the second choice is not the best overture.

Before coming to see me, better be damn sure I exist. 

[Ooooops]

Billy, seriously, do you think women have to be grateful for the very fact that a man shows interest and accept it on any terms? 

I can this happening for 2 reasons - desperation and plans to use and dispose in nearest future.       Neither one is that attractive, is it?

[Kuna]

Ahhh, borscht......Daveman, can you smell it?  Borscht is better than sex

I love borsch.... but I'm certain you haven't mastered sex!   

[kievstar]

Hi GQ,

Thanks  for your input.  I think it is fine to visit many women and let them now in advance but once you met your wife did you meet other women after meeting her in person?